Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sorry, my lack of knowledge in the english language dont let me know what is a brock... its some type of mole relative? I thouth it was some type of "nick name" for the animals i mentioned above...

Anyway, with that claws, with the size of a horse/poney, it can be the cuttest thing ever, but it will be killy too

Liked the ideia, bring on the miniatures

For those claiming "40K COPY!!!!", dakka rules dont let me express myself as i really feel about that rants. So, i will not discuss it anymore, and i strongly suggest that other people do the same... Haters gona hate, specially if they are appologizers...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Sorry, my lack of knowledge in the english language dont let me know what is a brock... its some type of mole relative? I thouth it was some type of "nick name" for the animals i mentioned above...

Anyway, with that claws, with the size of a horse/poney, it can be the cuttest thing ever, but it will be killy too

Liked the ideia, bring on the miniatures

For those claiming "40K COPY!!!!", dakka rules dont let me express myself as i really feel about that rants. So, i will not discuss it anymore, and i strongly suggest that other people do the same... Haters gona hate, specially if they are appologizers...

If you had read the article it has different translations for badger.

Brock is scottish.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a different note i think the chess clocks are a good idea. removes slow play from the game (mostly)

Tks Chocolate, sry for the ignorance in that matter ^^

From what I'm hearing from over the waves of the internet in the lands of Warseer, many have been suggesting that the current Warpath rules are reminiscent of 2nd edition 40k. It's as if they're in a transition between being a sci-fi skirmish game and a mass-battles game... and so is current 40k, to an extent. At the moment, a large game of Warpath takes as long as a similar-sized game of 40k.

There is an idea (that had already been proposed but rejected) to use circular movement trays to move units around the battlefield, speeding up game time dramatically (think Epic 40k). I, for one, am in great support of this. Game mechanics would have to be changed quite substantially. What do people think?

Cosmic wrote:Game mechanics would have to be changed quite substantially. What do people think?

I'm definitely an advocate of the big bases. Would the mechanics have to change that much?

The radius to the leader coherency rule just gets replaced with requiring 2" coherency between 5-model large bases and the leader is still used for LoS etc as he is now.

KoW I really enjoy. Warpath still has an identity crisis that needs resolving IMO.

Cosmic wrote:From what I'm hearing from over the waves of the internet in the lands of Warseer, many have been suggesting that the current Warpath rules are reminiscent of 2nd edition 40k. It's as if they're in a transition between being a sci-fi skirmish game and a mass-battles game... and so is current 40k, to an extent. At the moment, a large game of Warpath takes as long as a similar-sized game of 40k.

To an extent. But 2nd edition was slow because it was a skirmish game, with lots of and lots of detail. Warpath has some of the trappings of a skirmish game, like the line of sight and coherency being by model, but they don't actually do anything except slow the game down.

Cosmic wrote:

There is an idea (that had already been proposed but rejected) to use circular movement trays to move units around the battlefield, speeding up game time dramatically (think Epic 40k). I, for one, am in great support of this. Game mechanics would have to be changed quite substantially. What do people think?

That would have been a fantastic mechanic. The idea that highly trained space battles run around willy nilly on a battlefield is absurd. Since all their units are standard sizes, they could have made skirmish formation trays which in a specific formation, the unit acts with a special rule. Skirmish trays for when 'in formation'. This would have been a really good way to enter the market by making a game that had faster play.

You could have square formations for fast movement, Circular for defending and a straight line for shooting and searching. You can then give rules based upon it and choose your formation pre-game. This could also give armies the ability to choose opponents then choose formations. Maybe against one army you will be taking defensive positions and others you will be interested in speedy ones.

There is just too much 40k in warpath...

Actually, that Gorka Morka comparison is an apt one. The GM figures would probably be cross-compatable with the Mantic ones, for what it's worth!

nkelsch wrote:That would have been a fantastic mechanic. The idea that highly trained space battles run around willy nilly on a battlefield is absurd. Since all their units are standard sizes, they could have made skirmish formation trays which in a specific formation, the unit acts with a special rule. Skirmish trays for when 'in formation'. This would have been a really good way to enter the market by making a game that had faster play.

You could have square formations for fast movement, Circular for defending and a straight line for shooting and searching. You can then give rules based upon it and choose your formation pre-game. This could also give armies the ability to choose opponents then choose formations. Maybe against one army you will be taking defensive positions and others you will be interested in speedy ones.

I hear you, nkelsch. Any more ideas is a good thing. I was thinking that units could choose to opt from a standard formation (on a circular movement tray) to a skirmish formation (no tray), gaining and losing abilities at the same time. For example: a standard formation of Forgefathers wants to take on on an entrenched enemy in a building complex, and so form a skirmish formation and move in (where the long hard slog begins). It's seems realistic; close-quarter warfare takes much longer and more effort. This way, the player can move their models around more carefully than being on a movement tray, treating each model more as an individual rather than as a unit (and taking advantage of everything possible). Standard formation is for when the units want to get from A to B quicker, open-ground warefare, or strength in numbers. Being in skirmish formation slows them down considerably, gaining advantage of cover and avoiding enemy fire, but leaving them at the mercy of enemy melee (especially if they're attacked by a standard formation, which moves much quicker and is stronger). A unit must decide whether it is in standard or skirmish formation at the start of it's turn (or whether it can physically be in standard formation) before anything else is done.

What do you think?

That seems incredibly fiddly, especially at this scale.
How do you have (multiple) 10" diameter templates interacting with terrain? Do you have to swap your guys in and out of movement trays every time you change formation or do you just have to buy twice as many models and have them permanently on the tray and versions that are just based normally?

The trouble for me with the not removing casualties thing is that it doesn't solve any problems I've ever had. You have an inherent morale/wound mechanic built in to model removal that you're choosing not to use, but then your abstraction doesn't make moving dozens of models around any less fiddly.

No, just using clear plastic trays, but yes, I can see the problems it may cause.

Prehaps if the models remain on the movement trays throughout the game, then the players only deal with combating different sized circular units (section, platoon, and hero - that's 25mm bases). Vehicles and monsters don't count (they just work by themselves).

If a unit wants to make use of cover, it must have less than 50% of it's base showing to the enemy. If a unit moves into a building, remove the tray and make it clear that your unit is inside. Unlike KoW, units do not have a rear, side and front facing. It's the same all-around.

How about that?

Sounds like it'd be awfully close to looking like Epic in 28mm scale.

lord_blackfang wrote:Sounds like it'd be awfully close to looking like Epic in 28mm scale.

Yes, yes, I think you are correct. Is that not a good thing? I've never played Epic in all honesty, but I think that Mantic can still thrown in their own twist - just like Kings of War is very similar to Black Powder. I don't see another way of successully creating a massed sci-fi wargame. People say that the best 40k Apocalypse games are played with around 2000-3000 points a-side, because *the* player can field whatever they choose... but that isn't "massed sci-fi battles".

What else is *there* that is original?

*Edited within the asterisks*

plastictrees wrote:That seems incredibly fiddly, especially at this scale.
How do you have (multiple) 10" diameter templates interacting with terrain? Do you have to swap your guys in and out of movement trays every time you change formation or do you just have to buy twice as many models and have them permanently on the tray and versions that are just based normally?

The trouble for me with the not removing casualties thing is that it doesn't solve any problems I've ever had. You have an inherent morale/wound mechanic built in to model removal that you're choosing not to use, but then your abstraction doesn't make moving dozens of models around any less fiddly.

They already have a clumsy movement and 1" coherency rule and 5" from the leader... I am unsure how you can play on a lot of terrain with a 1" coherency.

Like I said before... They took 40k... and made it worse to play. I would assume a gaming system based upon trays would have less to do with walking on terrain and more about other things. The way people LOVE tanks in 40k it is pretty clear most people like moving single units over moving 30 individual boyz. Maybe if man-based units moved around similar to tanks via trays you might see a change. You can use tray movement without going hardcore fantasy movement with wheeling and crap. Just a general way to push units around a table without having to deal with rubber banding, overmeasuring, slow play and all the other issues with 80+ skirmish models on foot.

Try to stuff movement trays into 40k it will fail, but we are not playing 40k, we would be playing a new game based around these mechanics. If all you do is compare any suggestions in how it fits into 40k, everything fails... (but this appears to be how they developed Warpath from reading many of the forums)

Actually people love tanks in 40k because they are way under priced.

lord_blackfang wrote:Sounds like it'd be awfully close to looking like Epic in 28mm scale.

Which is fine, it's meant to be a "battle" game

No reason they couldn't also do a skirmish ruleset too.

Warpath Starter set all together... no close up pics of the Forgefather plastics yet :/

Educated guess from someone who has personally assembled 80 KoW Dwarf Ironwatch (and has the models on his desk right now) - they're based on the Ironwatch sprue.

Just throwing that out there, I haven't formed an opinion on the models yet, the image is too small.

Would have liked a new sprue, TBH, the Ironwatch sprue has already been copy+pasted twice (for the artillery crew and shieldbreaker sprues), re-using it for a third time is pushing it a bit.

My main concern is that the sprue will only be a 2-dwarf sprue. So, there will not be a decent amount of components on it.

scarletsquig wrote:Educated guess from someone who has personally assembled 80 KoW Dwarf Ironwatch (and has the models on his desk right now) - they're based on the Ironwatch sprue.

I can't tell you how much I hope this isn't the case. I'll wait for a pic, but that would almost certainly be a dealbreaker for me.

I tried zooming into the pic, but couldn't really see a thing. The fact that they are all aiming their weapons in the same direction doesn't bode well.

I have not been overwhelmed by Mantic's sculpts, but I must say that the starter set looks nice. I like really like the bike and artillery gun. I look forward to seeing closeups.

scarletsquig wrote:Educated guess from someone who has personally assembled 80 KoW Dwarf Ironwatch (and has the models on his desk right now) - they're based on the Ironwatch sprue.

Hmm I find this prospect really hilarious actually

I remember when the ironwatch were first shown, people went "What? These guys look on the brink of Sci Fi!"

I really wish the FF could have more dynamic poses

Well.....on the plus side at least the army deals now have pics

Hmm, a green horde supported by a light and fast vehicle against a few highly armoured ultra marine guys supported by a square heavily armoured weapon platform. They really want to show everyone, what this game is meant to be. Why not call it "Assault on Black Beach"

The more I see them, the more I see RT.

Sorry if I take this set and play that battle of the farm scenario in the back of the book.

These guys are what the doc's ordered. The figures are balls out. I see them, I see a good many thing missing in GW's corperation assclownery, and that Mantic's guys have character, not just Ork #10000000, or something. You could easily play skermish level with the guys with other rules systems.

Yes, the rules have left the station, they arn't coming back. They made that abundantly clear last month on thier forums, and The message was well heard. !@#$ them for that.

BUT thier figures ARE proxy material. Nuff said.

It isn't a hate on them, it isn't a slight. It just... is what it is. Think about it- the price is balls out. The figures are balls out. You can't honestly call them a "GW competator" when they arn't even out of the first 1000 orders, and some snappy dialogue on the BOW. That was fine and dandy, but you saw some of the players in there. There was not, nor will thier be a large deviation from what they know. Alysso was well entrenched into what made GW less fun, thats a fact. That there isn't even any discussion on that point, doesn't even meet the common sense test... As for Jake? yeas, ok. Whatever. Hey there, fella, those days are gone. Thanks for your opinion, but it wasn't really anything that knocked my socks off. I do appreciate the pictures, though. They solidified my opinion that I really like those orc, ork, orx, sporks...


Look at that game. I don't care how many people are how far up on your jock you are FOR WHAT EVER company your squealing about.
GW is friggen tired. They've been all Space Marines, and candy coated unicorns for well on 4-5 years, now. 5th edition was 4th edition Plus.
The we go back to discussion about "Oh.. mantic dug a pretty big hole for themselves... blah blah blah..." Yes, they did, BUT they are actually being up front and putting it out there that they have new guys. Not just regurgitated sets of the same.... for over 10 years. And in numbers.. HOW many came in a box again? For HOW MUCH?

10 for 50.00? I don't see that. especially when they have the alure of the old school RT era orks, and they are made out of plastic. THAT was what made 40K fun. And even with some people crying abotu the days of woe of 2d edition? SO WHAT? 2d edition was fun, if it wasn't we would have threw them all out in the trash years ago, and wouldn't have gotten damn near violent when GW started pulling thier overt hostilities.

I'm looking at 3 sets of the old school Ork set from RT. I see in Mantic a bunch of why we started the GW thing, back in the day. The guys are bringing back the wacky orks. Only thing missing are some of theose Freeboota mobs, and wacky one offs, such as the cybors, the bubblechucka buggies, or the scrapped together weaponry.

They know we are interested, even though some of those D bags over at Mantic are married to thier "Idea" of how they think people should play. Hey, thats on them. They don't want to entertain discourse, thats on them. I still like the figures, I don't really care about jumping up and down on Jake thortons jock about them. To put it frankly, I was on board BEFORE Jake, AND after. so that opinion from him is what it is worth.

My opinion?

I don't care for the rules set. I was at first, until someone over there thought that they were dazzling us with diamonds while pushing !@#$ on a silver platter all the while trying to deflect honest conversation with kool aid talk. I like these guys for what I am going to use them for. Gorkamorka, and some RT.

I've been digging around in my back room and found a bunch of old stuff that got me interested, WITHOUT finecrap. price gouging, flim flam, and a bunch of meally mouthed corperate speak for "We can take a dump, make a mold of it, cast it in finecrap, and call it fine art."

I see some of that sort of talk here from Mantic too, but thats fine. To be expected. With that clunky rules set the only thing you honestly need to answer is this- HOW do you expect a group of 10-13 year old kids to react to this rules set? What is the first thing that people are going to say when they pop a starter box open, and see them for the first time?

CAN I teach a game in 10-20 minutes, and get people in on playing it in 5-15?

I'll go on ahead and give that a NO. Thats just how it is. The rules are looking worse and worse, and the models are pretty good, and I hope they continue getting better. And you know what? I can live with that.

The squats are fine. wouldn't change a thing. The Orks? EVEN BETTER. I want those orks even more then I've ever wanted GW's( aside from RT era) guys.

And this talk about "Using Fantasy Orks to make the Sci FI?" SO WHAT? I used 2 boxes mixed in with a box, and made a 30 man platoon out of them, pluse have more for the loota's, the burna boyz, and some meat left over for future stuff. (Yeah, the stuff is in the closet, right now, but it is still the idea that we are talking about a 20 or so man box, compared to the 10 man box sets that they are doling out to you these days for the same price.)

Kan, is kinda right though- they did spout off at the hole, and promised a Prize Pig in every box, while at the same time- are targeting disappointed GW players, and fully modeling the essence of what made RT fun.

Duncan is right, as well. The guys are so far, so good. Sculpts might have some flaws, but they have even more quarks, and even if that so called penny is supposed to be the bases, I can see these guys getting the slottabase treatment and getting added in with some GW orks for good measure.

Too bad they hit the big red retro button and came up with the idea first.

Grot 6 wrote:The more I see them, the more I see RT.

Sorry if I take this set and play that battle of the farm scenario in the back of the book.

Yes definitely !

A shame they are being so obtuse with the photos, although surely now they are painted it's only a matter of time until we get a decent close-up?

Anyone know if it's possible to give the Marauders some kind of 2H rifle/gun option or are they pistol and cc weapon all the way?

Pacific wrote:

Anyone know if it's possible to give the Marauders some kind of 2H rifle/gun option or are they pistol and cc weapon all the way?

Well technically the shoulder mounted cannon probably needs two hands but looks like its not going to be modeled that way. No sign of any rifles at all so far

So, the dwarfs dont have CCWs? They are a bunch o cowards with guns? Ironclad weapons have the enough sci-fi look, with nice new bodys i will be pleased. Hope that is not the ironwatch with sci-fi tweaks, i liked the general look of marauders (even dont liking the sprue re-use), if they do the same to the dwarves, they had just lose a costumer...

I like what mantic have done with fantasy dwarfs, re-using sculpts in each product, but that was for fantasy, Those fantasy bodys will not fit sci-fi so well, not without they end up looking like cheap conversions.

Right now, im pretty deluded...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:So, the dwarfs dont have CCWs? They are a bunch o cowards with guns?

One of their units have crushing strength though so maybe down the line

Pacific wrote:
Anyone know if it's possible to give the Marauders some kind of 2H rifle/gun option or are they pistol and cc weapon all the way?

There is a Marauder unit called Rifle-Grunts, so I imagine they'll have that option eventually. I wonder if they'll be releasing more models soon, or just focus on core units for each army and release the vehicles, elites, and upgrades later on.

I'm with Grot, and very excited to see more.

Hexol wrote:

Pacific wrote:
Anyone know if it's possible to give the Marauders some kind of 2H rifle/gun option or are they pistol and cc weapon all the way?

There is a Marauder unit called Rifle-Grunts, so I imagine they'll have that option eventually. I wonder if they'll be releasing more models soon, or just focus on core units for each army and release the vehicles, elites, and upgrades later on.

Ok that's make or break for me, thanks for that!