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The Dwarf Wolf wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:If they're going to come out and play with the big dogs, talk smack like they've done--

Say what? someone explain what hes talking about.

He is saying that mantic made to much noise around their products, and created a lot of expectative. But it should have not made it.

They did not "create a lot of expectations".
They came out and made promises.
They said that they were revealing an IP "never seen before".
What did they reveal? "Not-Rogue Trader".
They said they were bringing an "all-new way to play".
What did they bring? A clumsy system that a child could have written better.

Mantic should have worked like GW, with last century marketing strategies

Cute deflection. Maybe I should get a "GW Fan Club" banner for my sig.

You know, Mantic actually use Internet to advise about their products, and we all know it dont work...

"Advise"? I assume you mean "advertise". Advertising is great and all, but when you're trying to move from a niche market(Fantasy) to creating your own IPs and your claim to fame so far is "We make cheap models and play on the nostalgia factor for a market share!"--you have problems.

LunaHound wrote:Really? so far I have only seen the glasses guy, sitting alone on a table, of a small office room.
Doesn't seem too flashy...

Then you haven't been looking. They have their own version of a "Games Day", they show up at a great many cons, are constantly on Beasts of War, etc.

They've been hyping this game up for a long time.

And also, unlike GW, Mantic still needs exposure.

No, what Mantic needs is to get their crap together. They're releasing subpar models, subpar rules, and trying to break out with their own IP.

They aren't at the stage yet with world known popularity.

So because they're "unknown"(which they're really not. Almost every forum relating to wargaming has had discussions/postings about them, and most internet retailers stock their products. The only place where they're "unknown" is B&M retailers, who would rather stock a proven brand like GW or PP than a game system which no one has no interest in), they get leeway for these kinds of bragging shenanigans?

And for what reason would a person possibly have or care if Mantic make miniature they don't think is up to par with GW, or whether their advertisement is too "loud"?

Kanluwen wrote:...are constantly on Beasts of War, etc...

This proves nothing, BoW are professional shills completely devoid of credibility.

Triszin wrote:here's a re-coloring hybrid alpha did on warseer.

What was the original pic?


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They look okay, though the second guy from the left always just looks bad with that raised right shoulder.


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Alpharius wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

Velard:

Kroot - I kind of like these, but I can't get their website to load.

Do you have any more pictures of Velard's Space Dwarves?

These are pretty clearly rippe- ...inspired by the RT-era squats. I don't actually have an issue with the design of the Forgefathers, it's just the execution (over-long arm length) that puts me off them.


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Oh, Kanluwen. I've learned to use the ignore filter where it's needed. I'm enjoying my time on Dakka much more with that in place.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Right... Only that your descriptions fits only into one product they have show until now, the marauders troopers, and they even looks nice that way. Just tell me: why they MUST wear pants...

1.) ALL shown miniatures from TWO fractions don't wear pants.
2.) Ask current elite soldiers why they don't wear mini skirts
3.) Having only medieval themed armies in a SciFi game is odd, if you pretend to do a non-medieval themed game.

Kanluwen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Really? so far I have only seen the glasses guy, sitting alone on a table, of a small office room.
Doesn't seem too flashy...

Then you haven't been looking. They have their own version of a "Games Day", they show up at a great many cons, are constantly on Beasts of War, etc.

They've been hyping this game up for a long time.

We've done these same things... Lots of companies do..

LunaHound wrote:And for what reason would a person possibly have or care if Mantic make miniature they don't think is up to par with GW, or whether their advertisement is too "loud"?

Because every miniature ever made MUST be useable in a Games Workshop game.

Cyporiean wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Really? so far I have only seen the glasses guy, sitting alone on a table, of a small office room.
Doesn't seem too flashy...

Then you haven't been looking. They have their own version of a "Games Day", they show up at a great many cons, are constantly on Beasts of War, etc.

They've been hyping this game up for a long time.

We've done these same things... Lots of companies do..

Yet you don't come out saying that your game is going to be "the most innovative and amazing" thing, and bragging about the fact that you recently hired a bigwig from GW's studios do you?

LunaHound wrote:And for what reason would a person possibly have or care if Mantic make miniature they don't think is up to par with GW, or whether their advertisement is too "loud"?

Because every miniature ever made MUST be useable in a Games Workshop game.

Yes, please put words in my mouth.
The reason is because in this day and age, there's no excuse for sculpts that look like they were done in the 80s.

Especially for plastic kits intended to be for a game system where the designer is bragging about how it will be a "40k killer".

Kanluwen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:And for what reason would a person possibly have or care if Mantic make miniature they don't think is up to par with GW, or whether their advertisement is too "loud"?

Because every miniature ever made MUST be useable in a Games Workshop game.

Yes, please put words in my mouth.
The reason is because in this day and age, there's no excuse for sculpts that look like they were done in the 80s.

Especially for plastic kits intended to be for a game system where the designer is bragging about how it will be a "40k killer".

Didn't put any words into your mouth, but everytime a new miniature gets posted someone in the thread will say 'A Good Proxy for this unit' or 'Neat, but no use for 40k' etc. Unless that person is you, don't worry about chewing on the words.

Cyporiean wrote:
Didn't put any words into your mouth, but everytime a new miniature gets posted someone in the thread will say 'A Good Proxy for this unit' or 'Neat, but no use for 40k' etc. Unless that person is you, don't worry about chewing on the words.

Not trying to bite your head off Cyporiean. The intent of posts tends to get very skewed or outright ignored in Mantic threads, and I was preempting what I thought was being done.

You are right about the proxy thing, but in quite a few cases they're commenting on models which are being sold with a wink and a nod to be a proxy for a unit in 40k.
When people post those magical words "Neat, but no use for 40k" in Infinity threads though it makes me facepalm fairly hard, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

Kanluwen, how much companies you see around that survived GW competition in their own area? I mean, there is no competitor for 40k, except for skirmish games, and in that case they are not true competitors.

Mantic is trying to offer a new game, but they actually learned with the failed projects of other people, and are trying to grow bigger proxyng GW stuff. GW have the only sci-fantasy in the market, any othere sci-fantasy product, will look like GW. Do it in other way, is just suicide.

People have this tendency to look at Mantic and say "they are stealing the hard work of GW", but they are not, instead they are producing alternatives to GW. And GW itself made this situation, treating their long time fans with disrespect.

PS: if you want to use a "GW fans" banner, go ahead and do it, specially if you dont feel offended with all they hav done. For me, finecast, overprices, south embargo and increased codex creepy are far worse than a sprue re-use.

If i want to put real money on toy soldiers, i will do that with Corvus Bell and Infinity, hardly with GW...

There are hater(s)? in this thread, that's all there is to it.
Any new company that dabbles in fantasy or sci fi will be considered another dog trying to eat some food off GW's food bowl.
To most of us, thats fine, any healthy alternative and different miniatures are welcomed.
Well, to some, they cant stomach that.

LunaHound wrote:There are hater(s)? in this thread, that's all there is to it.
Any new company that dabbles in fantasy or sci fi will be considered another dog trying to eat some food off GW's food bowl.
To most of us, thats fine, any healthy alternative and different miniatures are welcomed.
Well, to some, they cant stomach that.

I think it is 'odd' for for Warpath to be about a giant evil space corporation which enslaves aliens and all that jazz then have the boxed set and two races both be aliens who have nothing to do with the corporation, the major antagonist of the universe... "let me promise you a brand new awesome game and gaming universe then highlight the epic squabbles of two insignificant races." It would be like releasing a Star Wars game without storm troopers and Jedi and making the first releases be gungans VS jaba the hutt.

I welcome alternative game systems, Mantic's system seems crappy and *MOST* people will play 40k with them.
I welcome alternative IPs and universes, Mantic's IP sounded cool at first, then they ruined orx making them GW orks down to the snotlings and totally avoid any involvement of the core part of their fluff, 'the corporation'. *MOST* people will pretend they are 40k orks and 40k squats.
I welcome alternative models, Mantic's models are low quality, look bad, fall flat compared to awesome concept art, are not inventive and seem like fantasy in space.

Trying to be like people who are not liking Mantic's models/game/Ip are just GW haters is carrying Mantic's water. I could say some people who are so determined to see GW armed will blindly support anything MANTIC does simply to help promote that they succeed even if they don't deserve to by making inferior everything. Mantic is very much being criticized on the quality of their product and what they promised to deliver...

They should have at least tried to release 'the corporation' as one of the two core factions If they wanted the game to be taken seriously as a stand-alone game and not have the perception of a unit-filler line for 40k. ORX wouldn't have gotten as much scrutiny as a limited expansion pack army like their fluff suggests. No one would have cared if they were a fantasy retool if there were some core Sci-Fi armies that looked good and had good rules and an engaging fluff.

@nkelsch: I love GW, I love Mantic. GW was my heart and soul for many, many years. They still are, but Mantic is the one for me. I admit that the *emotion expressed* towards GW is quite often unjustified, over-exagurated and negative to say the least, but what I'm seeing here is no better towards Mantic. There is truth on both sides, and no-one has the correct answer. I just hope that GW and Mantic improve for the years to come.

I don't know if this is the best place to post these, but I'm sure that people will appreciate. The paintjob is not perfect:









What can I say? The models were really quick and fun to paint, and left plenty of room for the Quickshade to play around on. I especially like the Marauder with the goggle-head, and quite like the pose of the heavy weapon trooper, a.k.a. "Heavy" (he is a Russain). Speaking of said model, the gun itself is really cool and, in my eyes, original.
To me, from painting these models, it almost feels as though Mantic's Orcs were originally intended to be sci-fi from conception.

BUT WHAT IF MANTIC RE-USES *THEIR* DWARF SPRUES FOR THE FORGEFATHERS?! I don't know, I really like Mantic's Dwarfs (but do not possess any), and if they use them for the Forgefathers, to me it will be a win/win situation.

/personal opinion.

Thanks for reading.

*Edited within the asterisks*

If i have never seen a Kings of War Orc before, I would certainly say this does work for sci fi.

Army lists and rules pdf's are out:

http://www.manticgames.com/Hobby/Gaming.html

The orx look very comparable to me to the plastic orks that were in the gorkamorka boxed set from GW many years ago. Whille not bad, they're not up to current standards, those gorkamorka orks were released what a dozen years ago. The forge fathers so far look better, but don't really float my boat. I'm hopeful that some other faction of Warpath will appeal to me as I like to mix up what minis I buy. I have lots of GW product, but I also have stuff from Void, Wargames Factory, Hasslefree, etc.

Tazok wrote:The orx look very comparable to me to the plastic orks that were in the gorkamorka boxed set from GW many years ago. Whille not bad, they're not up to current standards, those gorkamorka orks were released what a dozen years ago. The forge fathers so far look better, but don't really float my boat. I'm hopeful that some other faction of Warpath will appeal to me as I like to mix up what minis I buy. I have lots of GW product, but I also have stuff from Void, Wargames Factory, Hasslefree, etc.

What does plastic gorkamorka orks look like btw?

LunaHound wrote:
What does plastic gorkamorka orks look like btw?

I think they looked like the old ork trukk

Actually I think the ork wartrakk is from gorka morka

Here's a link to some pictures of some Gorkamorka orks up for sale on e-bay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/14-OOP-Ork-Gorkamorka-Ork-Boyz-Warhammer-40k-/260842133199?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D160644582896%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3153494392216218136

nkelsch wrote:

LunaHound wrote:There are hater(s)? in this thread, that's all there is to it.
Any new company that dabbles in fantasy or sci fi will be considered another dog trying to eat some food off GW's food bowl.
To most of us, thats fine, any healthy alternative and different miniatures are welcomed.
Well, to some, they cant stomach that.

I think it is 'odd' for for Warpath to be about a giant evil space corporation which enslaves aliens and all that jazz then have the boxed set and two races both be aliens who have nothing to do with the corporation, the major antagonist of the universe... "let me promise you a brand new awesome game and gaming universe then highlight the epic squabbles of two insignificant races." It would be like releasing a Star Wars game without storm troopers and Jedi and making the first releases be gungans VS jaba the hutt.


(snip)

No one ever said corporation was the main focus of the game.

And thank god for that. People want aliens. Just like I'm sure lots of people would be happy if GW stopped focusing so entirely on the Imperium.

Agamemnon2 wrote:This proves nothing, BoW are professional shills completely devoid of credibility.

Oh Aggy. Your cloudy-day posts never fail to put a smile on my face and a spring in my step.

Kanluwen wrote:Yet you don't come out saying that your game is going to be "the most innovative and amazing" thing, and bragging about the fact that you recently hired a bigwig from GW's studios do you?

Just like you don't come out and promise a revolution in miniatures and the most detailed miniatures ever made in the history of ever... and then release Finecast, right?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Just like you don't come out and promise a revolution in miniatures and the most detailed miniatures ever made in the history of ever... and then release Finecast, right?

OH SNAP thats definitely true

Cosmic wrote:What can I say? The models were really quick and fun to paint, and left plenty of room for the Quickshade to play around on. I especially like the Marauder with the goggle-head, and quite like the pose of the heavy weapon trooper, a.k.a. "Heavy" (he is a Russain). Speaking of said model, the gun itself is really cool and, in my eyes, original.

As always, comments and photos from someone's actually built and painted carry a lot more weight than posturing and prejudices. They do look a bit rough, but the weapons and gear looks nice - especially (as you say) the heavy weapon. They do look quite similar to the GorkaMorka plastic Orks - particularly the heads and the legs. Setting aside the lack of originality, I think they're okay.

lord marcus wrote:Army lists and rules pdf's are out:

http://www.manticgames.com/Hobby/Gaming.html

any thoughts on the lists or rules? or questions?

Actually they never called it a WHFB-/40K killer and to be precise the same folks that now howl started calling it that.

Since I have been promoting their game with them during some events I know quite well what they say about it and what not. And quite some stuff is written here that is not true but wishfull thinking.

Duncan, dont you understand? There is some "secret rule" among costumers that say: Comapanies that do advertise they products, are doing it wrong, and deserve to be burned in the hot white fire. Except when they do it 1 week before the release, of better, after it)

About the new KoW: KoW is just amazing for me, the second edition is just better. Not much to coment on it, but new nerve system, new armylist structure, and an introductory scenario just make it "koool" (that is actually better than "cool").
I just wish to know what really is the mounts of dwarf berserkers, i hope they are not bears, but mountain goats. But i just loved the excuse for dwarf cavalry, they are the berserkers, the sundered, the dwarfs who live outside the mountain.
Im excited too about the goblins, and hope they dont come as "tribal gobos", but as "steam junkyard". I think it will not happen thought...

Nice... the rules are basically a disgruntled fan-fiction version of 40k run through a thesaurus.

The whole point of time clocks shows they have no idea how interactive game phases in their own game works as many actions should count against 'both' players.

The rules are terrible, so much wasted opportunity for a different way of wargaming... The people writing it can't get 40k off the brain.

Ahrg, another new start of the argument we left off two pages ago....

Again this is basically 40k if it just took fantasy's rules in space to the extreme

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:About the new KoW: KoW is just amazing for me, the second edition is just better. Not much to coment on it, but new nerve system, new armylist structure, and an introductory scenario just make it "koool" (that is actually better than "cool").
I just wish to know what really is the mounts of dwarf berserkers, i hope they are not bears, but mountain goats. But i just loved the excuse for dwarf cavalry, they are the berserkers, the sundered, the dwarfs who live outside the mountain.
Im excited too about the goblins, and hope they dont come as "tribal gobos", but as "steam junkyard". I think it will not happen thought...

They do say what they ride... Brocks.



Just look at that face.. Whats not to love?