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How the #2 did that happen? I thought SL was #2!

Gits - 1
WM - 2
SL - 3
Ice - 4

Generally, early order was determined by the order in which I talked with you about the team *and* keeping your spot depended on actually doing something for the team. Since you built those tactical marines for me last year... you're spot was secured. I honesty didn't remember if I'd talked with you or SL first... so the 2/3 thing is a complete crap-shoot.

You guys can sort it out however you'd like. I'd be perfectly happy with pistols at 20 paces...

I always knew my competitive pistol competitions would come in handy someday!

Hey at this rate Gits you might get your wish of reaching page 304 before having to present anything!

All good. Git picked... so he Wears " Horns of Power" ( Movie refrence) - besides always room for advancement.

How many LotD are you planning and what load out options 1. do you get 2. are you planning?

SL

Vitruvian XVII wrote:Hey at this rate Gits you might get your wish of reaching page 304 before having to present anything!

LMAO ^^

"it's all in the reflexes."

@SL: LoTD really don't have many options... they're basically glorified tactical marines. The sarge is as you see him. One marine will have something fun like a las cannon, the rest are straight up tacticals... but they'll have shields and if I can find some way to strap them on... non-power spears.

Gitsplitta wrote:"it's all in the reflexes."

@SL: LoTD really don't have many options... they're basically glorified tactical marines. The sarge is as you see him. One marine will have something fun like a las cannon, the rest are straight up tacticals... but they'll have shields and if I can find some way to strap them on... non-power spears.

Check out the Rough Riders spears for inspiration.

Damn it Gits!
I leave for a couple of months and you go ahead and fill dozens of pages with work and chatter!!

Your praises have been sung throughout my absence, so Ill not bore you with more. Great work so far, man. Im really looking forward to your take on the LotD!


Ah and btw. Well done at Adepticon. Book looked ace!

@Ramos: Thanks Ramos, I really appreciate your very kind words!

@WyFox: Will do, thanks!


Well, no marine action tonight... sorry. Still working on my second grot tank. All done save for a speckling of rust and the mud. If you're curious, the latest WIP is here.

The Grot Tank looks good!

Thanks CtC! I think if the last two stages go as well as I hope (rust and mud), it'll be the best vehicle I've ever done. It's amazing how much effort and time go into the chipping and weathering. Took me all evening (as I was helping my youngest through his homework) to do the chipping and little rust marks around the bolts.

Solar_lion wrote:All good. Git picked... so he Wears " Horns of Power" ( Movie refrence) - besides always room for advancement.

The 13th Warrior with Antonio Banderes (sp?). damn good film, love the Norse theme...

* Even though the subject here is orks... I bring it up in the MW blog because this is really not an ork issue, it's a gallery issue & this blog is my best shot at getting more eyes on the question at hand. Mea culpa for going OT.


Here's a bit of dakka gallery wierdness for you all to ponder...

I was poking through the dakka gallery looking at all the pictures of the fantastic grot tanks out there on dakka, many of the completely scratch built. I came to a couple of the pictures of my first grot tank.

First this one... which I thought was my final pic.



Then this one, where I added (due to the prompting of fella dakkanians) a rear licence plate and a more realistic light bulb. Otherwise... it's the same.



I'd forgotten to shut off the voting for the first pic when I posted the second, and both have gotten enough votes to "register".

The first pic... that is the not-quite finished one: has 21 votes... 8.44 painting, 9.44 coolness
The second pic... with the added details... has 5 votes... 5.75 painting, 6.5 coolness... nearly 3 points lower in both categories! (really?? not even a 6??)

So the question I pose to you all is... how in the heck did the "improved" version get scored a full 3 points lower in both painting and coolness?? It's rather baffling to be honest... All I can think of is that the colors in the first picture are much "cheerier" putting voters in a better mood. 3 points in painting *and* coolness... wow, what a swing! Maybe the voting on the first was too high... but after 20 votes you expect things to level out a bit. Maybe the early voting on the first was high, which would tend to influence the voting once the scores were visible... by the same token the low totals in the second pic will insure that the voting stays low from now on... Still, a 3-point swing is substantial and hard to explain.

Because the internet is a fickle, fickle beast.

Its all relative. I was reading a thread while back in Nuts and Bolts about this, where someone proposed to add 'voting guidelines' to the Gallery.

The problem is, as it appeared to me, that everyone has a different idea of what each 'point' is worth. For example, just how goodis a 10? or a 5? or a 1? etc. its all based on the voters viewpoint of painting and coolness i guess is what im trying to say (not particularly well i might add), and quite often has NO bearing on whether or not the model deserves such a vote based on the viewpoint of the maker/painter...

However, i propose we all go and vote on Gits' tanks to raise those scores, because quite honestly, it looks awesome!

AV14 FTW!!

You don't have to do that guys, though I always appreciate votes of course.

You make a good point Reiko, and I've been involved in some of those discussions myself. I was more wondering if there wasn't some subtle difference between the two photos... the vibrancy of the color, the fact that the top one has "flatter" views, the backgorund with a bluish tint rather than greenish... that were subliminally influencing the voters. Could be just a smaller sample size of grot-hating Imperial lackeys... but perhaps it's something more.

It just struck me as being really odd, so I thought I'd pose it to the community for thought and comment. I'm sure most folks have had experiences where a figure's been panned that you think is actually quite good (I've had many). This was just unique as I had two sets of pics of the same fig with very different scores.

Thinking about it, you probably were involved in that one as well

And it could well be that the differences in photo could be the cause. I am not, by any means, a photography expert, and i tend not to notice small differences like that i have to say. What i noticed straight off was the small changes you had made (lightbulb, license plate, weathering...etc. ). And it could well be that it was just different people viewing/voting on it to give the different scores.

Dont put yourself down Gits, it is a great model. Agreed, a highly unusual and unique situation.

This is why I check the 'disable voting for all images' box.

Well, I am sure you are now going to get several sympathy 10's from your friend's .

But it really comes down to different voters: Your first pic might have drew in a lot of people who were familiar with your blog and yourself and thus you likely drew some grades that were a bit higher than deserved. Your second pic probably drew in some comics/trolls who gave you 0/0's. At only 20 or so votes, a few really high or really low scores can really skew results.

What has happened to you happens to most of us artists quite frequently on the Dakka Gallery. In this instance, I feel that if you averaged the two, you would get a more representative grade: 7s. After leaving a comment, looks like I gave you a 7/8 a while back.

For other DCM's I refer you to this blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/404937.page

@Reiko: You never know really, unless people make a comment and then you can see how they voted. That's something I don't like about the comments... I don't think your vote should be linked to your comment, they should remain separate and anonymous.

I'm not really down on myself at all... I think it's a good effort. I was just a bit dumbfounded by the discrepancy. I don't get too wrapped up in paint scores though I usually hope for most things to land at 8 or above... which is the standard I try to paint most of my minis to... but you don't always hit it and not all figures appeal to all people. I'm fine with that.

@Brian: The problem with doing that is it takes you out of the gallery pool and off the gallery splash/front page. That means people aren't seeing your work unless they're stopping by your blog. That means they can't help you with it, be inspired by it, or any of the other wonderful non-voting things that getting your pictures out there does for you. I'd bet it brings in traffic to your blog as well. People see a cool fig, poke around your gallery a bit, maybe see the blog the pic was posted on & go check it out. All good.

If you disable voting... none of those things happen.


Ninja'd by wyfox...

I keep thinking that there's some kind of averaging function in the gallery that tosses the lowest and highest votes... but I can't remember if that's actually a fact or just something I thought would be useful to mitigate the problem. That makes a bigger difference when you only have a few votes... once you get around 20, the effect on the score of any single vote is minimal.

Obviously. Polling is not an exact science. First, you have no control group. IE.. defined standard what each rating is. Secondly you will not have the exact number nor the exact same people polling the 2 images. Lastly most people are easily swayed by other opinions. ( they gave it 7, well he's a good painter, that must be what a 7 is ).

Though I personally appreciate some one voting on my work, I don't put much emotion into it. I'd rather you take a few seconds to respond on my blog , offer feedback or critique. Those people are at least true to their opinions of your work.

lastly I paint because I like too, not for praise or ego. No inference here. You have nothing to worry about. Your work through the years have greatly improved.

Is that a hint...? i dont tend to leave comments on the Gallery unless theres something i feel hasnt been said already/something glaring that i want to make mention of. Plus, i am not much of a painter, so i cant make substansive comments the majority of the time (hmmm doesnt stop me posting on various blogs though... ) i agree about the comment system as well, should be ananymous unless you REALLY want to make mention of a low/high score you gave or something...

I am very glad you arent down on yourself, as truthfully, you do amazing work and should be pround of it

Gitsplitta wrote:I'm going to spend the whole time stomping around the room and making sudden, loud noises!

So I take it you'll be eating Mexican again...

Revenent Reiko wrote:Is that a hint...? i dont tend to leave comments on the Gallery unless theres something i feel hasnt been said already/something glaring that i want to make mention of. Plus, i am not much of a painter, so i cant make substansive comments the majority of the time (hmmm doesnt stop me posting on various blogs though...

No hidden meaning intended. Respond however you want. or not. Being not much of a painter does't exclude you from your opinion. I'll never be a Major Tom or Egg. but it doesn't perclude me from recognizing what I feel is good work or bad work. Just one Mans Opinion.

" Be your harshest critic, and your own biggest supporter"

SL

Solar_lion wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:Is that a hint...? i dont tend to leave comments on the Gallery unless theres something i feel hasnt been said already/something glaring that i want to make mention of. Plus, i am not much of a painter, so i cant make substansive comments the majority of the time (hmmm doesnt stop me posting on various blogs though...

No hidden meaning intended. Respond however you want. or not.

" Be your harshest critic, and your own biggest supporter"

SL

Sorry SL, was responding to Gits and didnt say so...i have just voted on one of his images and didnt leave a comment...

Never any apology needed, My friend!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also think that Git is right about what appeals to you. Often I am more impressed with things I relate too rather that the things I do not ( Interpetive dance come to mind - ok any dance thing ) . I get more picky with SM stuff than say Orks. My expetations are more ridged!
Now back to your regular schedule MW blog.

SL or #3

Solar_lion wrote:Obviously. Polling is not an exact science.

Truth.

Revenent Reiko wrote:Is that a hint...?

Not at all. I don't leave comments in the gallery all that often... and then usually only for people who's blogs I don't frequent.

I'm not whining about the low score... I'm wondering at the discrepancy. You don't have to go off and bump my score on the figure. While I appreciate anyone taking the time to vote on one of my pics... it's not what I was after with the post. I'm curious if there may be something subtle in the two pics that's influencing the voting. When you look at both together... does one "feel" like it's done better than the other? Just your gut response... Or is it, as many have suggested... just the vagueness of random sampling & friend-influenced voting?

Come on folks! This is SCIENCE. (shout out to all you "Fallout: New Vegas" fans out there)

Gitsplitta wrote:I keep thinking that there's some kind of averaging function in the gallery that tosses the lowest and highest votes... but I can't remember if that's actually a fact or just something I thought would be useful to mitigate the problem. That makes a bigger difference when you only have a few votes... once you get around 20, the effect on the score of any single vote is minimal.

Solar_lion wrote:Obviously. Polling is not an exact science. First, you have no control group. IE.. defined standard what each rating is. Secondly you will not have the exact number nor the exact same people polling the 2 images. Lastly most people are easily swayed by other opinions. ( they gave it 7, well he's a good painter, that must be what a 7 is ).

I have to agree with Solar Lion, there are a lot of halo effects that can influence how someone will vote and I doubt most voters try to develop thier own independant guideline as to what a particular grade means.

I do think an averaging function could help but in many cases it seems that an extreme grade given early on (which wouldn't get thrown out right away as you need to build a base of votes to establish an average in the first place) can influence preceding grades. Or in otherwords, an extreme grade will have a determining effect on what the average will be.

Anyways, I have gone off-topic long enough. You do good work and you are ever improving.

*chuckle* Actually you are on-topic, it's your last comment that while appreciated... is off-topic!