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Made in us
Powerful Chaos Warrior





Florida

All of these will be going up for pre-order on my webpage tonight.

The dragon/wyvern is a particularly cool sculpt, but I think that owlbear might be the favorite of the bunch for me

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kodos wrote:
Sarouan wrote:
Taking responsibility and find a way to make sure the project still lives in the end, rather than letting down all the faithful backers ?

which means a long waiting time as until the case is resolved Mantic cannot do anything (to even have to wait to be allowed to buy the rights to release what was written)


They still had the choice. They did chose the one where they pull the plug out and nevermind the backers. Excuses that are justifying their choice are just that : excuses.



Sarouan wrote:
you take the risk, you pay the bill
which is true for everyone who backed a Kickstarter, you do it on your own risk and the backers knew that is as done by a 3rd party with the Mantic IP and not Mantic themselves


You think the company didn't have a deal with Mantic Games about using their IP ? Of course they did. And of course Mantic Games was fully on board with that since the beginning.

So you blame the backers for being gullible and believe Mantic Games wouldn't make a deal with a shady company (risking their reputation if it fails in the end) ? Well, your call, not mine.


So I stand by my words and will make sure everyone will still remember what they did. No excuse, see the past as it was and aknowledge it fully.

as you will do with every single mobile scam game using the GW IPs I guess?



Ah here is your fanboyism truly appearing : using "whataboutism" to deflect from the facts in this case. Mind you, GW has nothing to do with Mantic Games messing up that RPG project. So you can always try hard to defend them from what they did, it won't change the past. It sure bothers you because you can't say they do care for customers after such a move, doesn't it ? That's because they didn't, they cared for their well being first. Which is understandable, but it simply is in the way of their so called reputation of them caring for gamers and so on. They're not. They're a corporation like GW and they will use GW tricks if it's for the sake of their company and earnings. Hell, they're made with people who worked at GW. They're just smaller, and they use that to justify any of their moves that they gladly let their fans blame GW for when GW does it.

That people like you still try to make a difference between GW and Mantic Games for the sake of so called "competition on the market" is something I will always find funny - and the reason all of your arguments on that matter will always sound false, to me.

Besides, what I find scummy in GW's case about some mobile games doesn't make me put a blind eye on Mantic's own behaviour when they do also scummy stuff. The difference between you and me is that I'm not trying to defend Mantic Games at all costs. I actually don't see the problem to see them as yet another corporation using corporation moves like GW does : that's how capitalism works and how it was always intended to be, it was never about caring for their customers.


DarkBlack wrote:
Take responsibility for what? Letting someone make something with their IP? I think it's a better option than refusing everything that they can't do in house.
Not to mention that Mantic is actually doing what they can. There are legal issues regarding the ownership of work and information that needs to be resolved before Mantic can proceed though. Mantic doen't even have access to who the backers are (last I checked).


Yes, the myth of the small company who does what they can because of fatality striking them. Why do you think they use Kickstarter projects in the first place ? It's not just because they're a small company, it's mostlu because it's more profitable that way for them. They always use the method that has the less costs and more benefits for them, as any corporation will do obviously. But it's not a justification in itself, and it's not the only choice they had at that time if they really wanted to make it work for their faithful fanbase. They just chose the less painful for them and that's it, nevermind the backers. They chose to make the risk being paid by the backers and not them.

Like they did abandon games like Dungeon Saga. It's also a choice they could make otherwise.

But it's not something that isn't understandable in the capitalist world we live in, like I said above. You just have to aknowledge that their reputation of them caring for gamers is not true. They care for their reputation first, and are more than glad to make their fans believe they're actually different from GW, because it serves them well on a marketing level (also, having the fans doing their work for nothing is a win-win situation - they don't have to pay someone to do that, after all).



The backers did choose the company. It was completely clear that the project was not run by Mantic and a Kickstarter form the beginning.
All Kickstarter always is not guaranteed. It is a risk all backers accept, whether one takes it seriously or not. Mantic did not accept a risk, backers did.


Always blame the victims, not the true culprit at the source of everything. Like I said, Mantic Games chose to make the risk paid by the backers and didn't feel like they owned them anything. If they did, that would have been a true move from a company that call itself caring for gamers, though. Because nothing in Kickstarter rules prevented them to intervene and try to find a good solution for the backers, in the end. Too bad, that wasn't their choice.


Terrain Crate has always been aimed at RPG's in general. It predates KoW RPG and has never been reliant on what Red Scar produced.
Mantic don't own work on a RPG to repackage.
The Dungeon Saga minaitures being better presented as suitable for RPGs is just making it easier for customers to find their products.
Price increases are not exactly a scandal with the state of the world in the last few years, Mantic have been exceptionally transparent about that.


Excuses don't mean they're forgiven. They still did increase their prices when repackaging their RPG stuff...and that wasn't transparent in this case, they simply did it without saying anything in a blog.

They just use the GW way here, but why do you try to defend them on that matter ? It's okay to say "hey Mantic Games is not as clean as their community seems to think they are". It's not dirty in itself. It's just seeing the corporation as it is...and ask for something more if that's really important for you. Removed - grow up.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/10/08 17:32:00


 
   
Made in ca
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Canada

Sarouan wrote:
DarkBlack wrote:
The backers did choose the company. It was completely clear that the project was not run by Mantic and a Kickstarter form the beginning.
All Kickstarter always is not guaranteed. It is a risk all backers accept, whether one takes it seriously or not. Mantic did not accept a risk, backers did.


Always blame the victims, not the true culprit at the source of everything. Like I said, Mantic Games chose to make the risk paid by the backers and didn't feel like they owned them anything. If they did, that would have been a true move from a company that call itself caring for gamers, though. Because nothing in Kickstarter rules prevented them to intervene and try to find a good solution for the backers, in the end. Too bad, that wasn't their choice.

"Victims" is an odd word to use for people who agreed to a a risk of a possibility before it happened. As it happened, Mantic got screwed by this too.
Again (because you still don't appear to understand this) THIS WAS NOT A MANTIC PROJECT, THIS WAS A DIFFERENT COMPANY (Red Scar). THAT COMPANY HAS CLOSED. Mantic's involvement was to allow the use of their IP and they could check content pertaining to their IP before release. Mantic didn't see much content either though.

Mantic don't owe anyone on this, they never received any money to work on this. IT WAS NEVER A MANTIC PROJECT. Yet, Mantic are still trying to do as much for backers as they can.
There are actually rules and (more importantly) laws preventing Mantic form intervening. As THIS WAS NOT A MANTIC PROJECT; Mantic don't own, have access to or have the right to distribute anything that has been produced for the KoW RPG. Those rights belong to Red Scar A DIFFERENT COMPANY THAT HAS CLOSED.
As it is NOT MANTIC'S KICKSTARTER Mantic don't have access to information like who the backers even are. They are working on it, but legal stuff takes time.

It's just seeing the corporation as it is....

You're not though. You apparently can't even understand the actual situation with the KoW RPG.
Removed - grow up.

What the feth is wrong with you?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/08 17:32:14


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 DarkBlack wrote:

Again (because you still don't appear to understand this) THIS WAS NOT A MANTIC PROJECT, THIS WAS A DIFFERENT COMPANY (Red Scar). THAT COMPANY HAS CLOSED. Mantic's involvement was to allow the use of their IP and they could check content pertaining to their IP before release. Mantic didn't see much content either though.


Which is still their responsibility. If you allow the use of your IP by someone else and you don't really look about the viability of the project to the end...that's a massive oversight from your part, in the end.

Same with that disastrous deal with Victoria Games about the translation in french and distribution in France and Belgium of Mantic Games products, and how they dealt with the crowfunded translation of the last edition of KoW rules...it ended up with the death of the french market because apparently Mantic Games didn't really understand that their "partner" wasn't up to the task. Not like they really cared about the french market, anyway.


Mantic don't owe anyone on this, they never received any money to work on this. IT WAS NEVER A MANTIC PROJECT. Yet, Mantic are still trying to do as much for backers as they can.


Not enough, apparently. You can say it was never a Mantic project all you want : when you allow someone else to use your IP, you know your reputation is engaged as well. And if that someone feths up with your IP's name on it, well...you know you're fethed up too.

More so when they're tied up by "legal rules" as you say as well. They could have taken that into account BEFORE it became a project, couldn't they ? But they didn't...lack of competence ? Oversight ? Just didn't care because it wasn't their money ? Who knows, doesn't matter...the end result is there, and backers were the ones who paid for it.



It's just seeing the corporation as it is....

You're not though. You apparently can't even understand the actual situation with the KoW RPG.


Oh I very much do. You just don't want to aknowledge that Mantic Games could have done something else than they did with that project.

And nothing is wrong with me. When Mantic fanboys will stop being stupidly blind about Mantic Games practices while overeacting to anything GW does, I will say otherwise. Like that blog about justifying raising their prices that was encensed as "transparency". Come on. He just wanted to save his company's reputation, that's all. He did exactly the same than GW, in the end, and you all fell for it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/10/06 13:01:53


 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

you are not a backer of the KS otherwise you would know about the situation

or you are and just don't read emails

and maybe you can give us the background information that it was clear from the very beginning that the company using the IP was shady and going out of business

because for some odd reasons you know things nobody else know, so either you make stuff up or you have a source in the industry that knows much more than everybody else
and for the later, we would like to know those things as well

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Sarouan's been dunkin' on Mantic here for 5 years, you learn to tune him out.

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Canada

Sarouan wrote:
 DarkBlack wrote:

Mantic don't owe anyone on this, they never received any money to work on this. IT WAS NEVER A MANTIC PROJECT. Yet, Mantic are still trying to do as much for backers as they can.


Not enough, apparently. You can say it was never a Mantic project all you want : when you allow someone else to use your IP, you know your reputation is engaged as well. And if that someone feths up with your IP's name on it, well...you know you're fethed up too.

More so when they're tied up by "legal rules" as you say as well. They could have taken that into account BEFORE it became a project, couldn't they ? But they didn't...lack of competence ? Oversight ? Just didn't care because it wasn't their money ? Who knows, doesn't matter...the end result is there, and backers were the ones who paid for it.

Those "legal rules" are called laws, they're best taken seriously.
You clearly don't know the details. Red Scar was a reliable company that had successfully done similar work before; it was completely reasonable to expect that they could handle the project. From both Mantic and the backer's point of view.
Which is why, again, backers agreed to back the project while accepting the risk that it might not deliver (which is part of backing a Kickstarter).
SERIOUSLY I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH HOW KICKSTARTER BACKERS HAVE TO EXPLICITLY AGREE THAT THERE IS A RISK OF PROJECTS NOT DELIVERING.
Mantic are not obliged or required to do ANYTHING. Insisting otherwise is unreasonable and entitled.

Red Scar then closed due to COVID and mental health issues of the company owner (induced by his family faring badly with COVID). This was unforeseen and it is not reasonable to have expected anyone (even Red Scar) to have foreseen this.
And nothing is wrong with me.

I was referring to how vulgar you were being. What a fethed up thing to say.
Also not sure why you're so intent to find something wrong with Mantic. No one is saying they're prefect.
lord_blackfang wrote:Sarouan's been dunkin' on Mantic here for 5 years, you learn to tune him out.

In this case I feel like we should get the facts straight. People have and do use this forum to find out about Mantic and their games (especially initially).
I would not like to leave Sarouan's version of this to go unchallenged when potential new players might be reading.

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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Melbourne, Australia

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Sarouan's been dunkin' on Mantic here for 5 years, you learn to tune him out.


There's also an ignore function on the forums. It's awesome.

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Hm, one of the reasons I have liked Mantics monsters in the past is for their ability to remain 'in their space' without spreading wings/limbs/tails everywhere.

But that is a lot of good generic dungeon stuff. The critters lineup is probably my favorite, solid mix of generic and exotic covering pretty much all the major categories.

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Albany, NY

New plastic chariot kit incoming for Orcs, Goblins and Ogres, presumably with different riders depending on which. Here's the Ogre version:

While the fleabags are a little weird, I don't hate them the more I look at their big derpy heads. Certainly think the painting leaves something to be desired. But either way, more plastic chariots on the market are more better.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/10 15:46:45


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So close to being good but again with the Fisher Price chunkyness.

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Austria

not sure about the Chariot, I guess it will be a basic kit for Ogres, Orcs and Goblins with 1 standard infantry frame in a box of 3.
hoped for different animals/beasts for the different factions als fleabags is a Goblin thing (kind of), but the base is ok


they also showed new Siege Breaker:


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

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Albany, NY

 kodos wrote:
hoped for different animals/beasts for the different factions als fleabags is a Goblin thing (kind of)
Fleabags are supposed to be an Ogre thing too, but having never seen Mantic Red Goblin Scouts in an Ogre army (always always always GW goblins on wolves or squigs) it's easy for me to forget too

Those Siege Breakers, on the other hand, look great. Pumped to see some heavy Ogres with Big Shields on the table and not just Ironguts with Big Helmets

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/10 16:45:56


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Austria

I guess because we haven't seen new Fleabag riders yet as those are still the old PVC/Metal models
not that those are that bad, just all beasts having wide open mouths and metal parts are a big turn off (mantic should just add a new plastic frame instead of the metal parts)

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Chicago

Not impressed by the fleabag beasts, but the chariot itself is good.

The Siegebreakers are a really impressive looking kit!

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I wouldn't call "new" this chariot. The chariot itself is actually the same design parts than before, they seem to just have added a barrier on the front. You have the rider and the beasts that are really "new".

Well, if at least it's not in their old crap resin anymore, that's that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/10 19:38:57


 
   
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Ireland

The Chariot looks dumb, while the Siegebreakers look absolutely wonderful. Wonder if the Chariot could be salvaged with a less cartoon like paint job.

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For those wondering, the siegebreakers and crossbow horde boxes look be upgrade sets boxed with plastic ogre frames.

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Florida





Ogre mega Army set and the new sands of Ahmun starter set

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/11 19:47:50


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We are an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
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Austria

seeing a new Hero with the Army set is nice, so we can pick up old Vanguard warbands on sale without the fear to double the hero models

and the Mega Army trades Goblins, 1 Hero and 1 Troops with Chariots
not sure about that one, would have still expected (and liked) some of the new Goblin models or a 2nd Heroe

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

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Florida

 kodos wrote:
seeing a new Hero with the Army set is nice, so we can pick up old Vanguard warbands on sale without the fear to double the hero models

and the Mega Army trades Goblins, 1 Hero and 1 Troops with Chariots
not sure about that one, would have still expected (and liked) some of the new Goblin models or a 2nd Heroe


I've heard from multiple customers today that the mega army set seems light, the regular army set is redundant with the price of Sands of Ahmun on my webstore/content included, and the chariots (at least from the paintjob) look poor.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is your thoughts track with at least 4 other gamers from across the globe.

As long as I make sales, can keep my lights on and keep offering minis at solid prices, its all neutral to me personally.

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We are an Authorized Retailer of Wargames Atlantic and Mantic games, and carry shieldwolf and fireforge (among others) from distributors. 
   
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Austria

the chariots are the same design but better material with different animals and new crew
if you already have the old one, no need to replace them and if you can get the old ones for cheap, replacing the crew with new models is easy
overall it is good to get new ones and if you did not like the previous style you won't like the new ones


and the 2 player sets were always a very good deal specially if you wanted the rules as well as you get almost got an army box per faction + rules for a similar price (100€ vs 90€)
so in this case with most people who want Ogres or EoD also want the new rule book, the 2 player set is the better deal over an army box as you get a 2nd army box for free
(it was just that selling of the 2nd army and rules is usually difficult hence not the default option to go for stuff you don't need in KoW)

what worries me a little is that there is just 1 Hero with the box, which usually means Army Box and not Mega Army and going with the expected prices (45 for chariots, 30-35 for regiments, 15 for a Heroe), the saving would on the lower end of the Mega Armies (1 free Hero and Troop)
though the Army Box is identical with the old one, 3 Regiments+Hero

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/12 06:36:10


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Ogres are Neutral, and so can be used as allies for any alignment, so Sands of Ahmun can work as EoD primary with Ogres allies. It's not a bad box. Just not for me; got all the Ogres I need for KoW allies, and got ~80 unbuilt skellies with a 200+ skeleton army already in existence.

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Is the rulebook in that Sands of Ahmun set the exact same one as the "big red book" that's just come out?

   
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UK

It all looks awesome to me, I want to collect both armies and the spare rulebooks will be easier to sell off this time, with the older softbacks in 2-player sets I just gave them away to anyone expressing a slight interest in starting the game. Considering getting three boxes.

There's always a playerbase to use the minis in, even if KoW isn't big locally anyone still playing older edition WHFB is very relaxed about non-GW minis being used and that community is about the same size as KoW, it seems to have settled on 6th as the edition of choice, in the same way that old edition 40k has settled on 5th.

Very easy to fill out a 2k Ogre Kingdoms or Tomb Kings list for 6th with Mantic hard plastics and a few reaper bones or TTcombat bits.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/10/12 11:50:50


 
   
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Canada

kodos wrote:what worries me a little is that there is just 1 Hero with the box, which usually means Army Box and not Mega Army and going with the expected prices (45 for chariots, 30-35 for regiments, 15 for a Heroe), the saving would on the lower end of the Mega Armies (1 free Hero and Troop)
though the Army Box is identical with the old one, 3 Regiments+Hero

Keep in mind that if you run hordes at PMC (i.e. with 5 models) then each 6th model can be a hero.
Alternatively one regiment is easily 3 ogre heroes and ogre heroes are fantastic in game.

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Austria

Well for the box it makes sense to go with the 3rd Chariot as Warlord, so you get 2 Heroes out

That the Army Box comes with the 2021 Warlock and we have a new Hero in the Mega Army helps with the Vanguard sets

But it would have been good to get the same as with other sets were Army+Mega Army gets you 3 unique Resin Heroes

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 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
Ogres are Neutral, and so can be used as allies for any alignment, so Sands of Ahmun can work as EoD primary with Ogres allies. It's not a bad box. Just not for me; got all the Ogres I need for KoW allies, and got ~80 unbuilt skellies with a 200+ skeleton army already in existence.


That's sort of what I was thinking. A starter box that can easily be used for 2 players or for 1 without stretching credulity.

If I wasn't pretty set on the upcoming WGA Lanschnekt Ogres for my Ogre mercs, I'd be asking around the club to see who wanted to split this box. Especially since a couple of us have pre-ordered the new rulebook from McDougall already.

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A little conversion work and the Ogres from the starter could be Enslaved Guardians of either flavor for the EOD

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