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From 4chan:
"The livestream where the Counter Charge guys interviewed Ronny about upcoming Mantic stuff is neat

>App is coming at the end of the month with listbuilding for all their games and Ronny wants have an Infinity esque tournament ranking system eventually
>Twilight Kin will be very different from everything to date, next KoW book is going to be all about the void+Northern Alliance
>Elves, dwarf, and orc plastics are going to be replaced. New dwarf sprues will have on sprue with wooden shields and horned helmets for the Free Dwarfs while the Imperial Dwarfs will get kite shields and more imperial looking bits
>Flying unit for Free Dwarfs shown off for half a second
>Ronny wants to start selling STLs for things they don't make in hard plastic, pointing to all of their spendy resin models, conversion bits, and monopose PVC as examples. Ronny the bard will be in the welcome pack. They will still sell normally cast models for those who don't want to print them
>Siocast doesn't have a use for them yet as they already do hard plastics and resin or STLs are better for the specialized models
>Deadzone and Firefight will share the same book in the future
>Plastic rebels late next year, Ronny wants the entire army to be covered
>New modular mushroom-tree things were shown off
>Ronny doesn't want to remove armies despite tourneyfag bitching as he says they help develop the setting, claims Ophidians will come eventually to do as much
>New hard plastic nightstalker butchers that might be useable as a different profile as well
>Kings of War did really well during the pandemic, but growth is slowed now
>New starter sets will be made with the Kings of War Ambush rules in mind and come with textured unit bases rather than individual bases to make things more accessible
>Deadzone is selling much better than it used to
>They have the Streets of Rage license that they will use for a board game

The app still won't replace tacticalwargames for me given that some stuff is paywalled.''

From the KoW Forum

Summary of things I can be bothered to type out:

New book shipping early!
Mantic’s current focus is to “recruit” new players.
Uncharted Empires was kept separate in case of legal issues regarding copyright. Mantic are no longer concerned.
Vanguard has not been the entry point that Mantic hoped, ambush is to fill that role.
6 “ambush sets” coming that contain “a little box of minis” (on plastic sprues), include unit bases and a premade list in the “app”.
The app is a website (subscription based) that will primarily be an army builder and also host a living rulebook, “math hammer” calculator, tournament organizing software, will allow Mantic to collect data and publish rankings. Intended to be for all Mantic systems.
The app likely to make EasyArmy obsolete, Greg says he’s OK with that.
Mantic planning to revisit Vanguard in the long term.
Halfling and Rift Forged Orcs coming for Vanguard.
More narrative focus on “The Void” coming up (NA, TK and NS), including in the new Twilight Kin, in next year’s CoK.
New plastics for night stalkers coming with TK release, definitely butchers.
4th edition will come later due to recent rules development and releases.
Desire within Mantic to to “get rid of” miniatures on integrated bases and redo legacy armies, but only after short term goal of “completing” several armies (Trident Realm given as example).
Dwarfs riding giant ravens coming for Northern Alliance and probably Free Dwarfs (crossover between dwarfs from NA and Free Dwarfs expected).
Trident Realm coming to Armada next year.
No intention to consolidate armies, for lists that add to the “Story of Pannithor” at least.
Ophidia and another army definitely coming eventually.
“Whole other section of the map” being revealed “at some point in the medium to distant future”.
Mantic looking at stls for upgrade kits and models that are not viable for them to produce commercially (resin models are expensive to make). Buying physical plastic kits are expected to remain more appealing than 3D printing your own.
Modular Sci-Fi trees coming soon. Neoprene area terrain planned.
Rebs coming for Firefight next year.
Deadzone is doing well and will share a book with Firefight.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
>They have the Streets of Rage license that they will use for a board game

Unexpected twist!

Lots of good KOW stuff in the pipe, very much looking forward to the Void release, as all three of those armies need some love (rules-wise for NA + TK, proper plastics for TK + NS but really NA as well). I wish them luck selling those STLs but it would certainly make my life easier. Shipping from the UK is rough for single upgrade bits, while my printer lurks in my basement, waiting (This in counterpoint to PP, who managed to not cut out shipping and in-house production despite moving away from cast resin to print resin.)

A whole other section of the map will be revealed, eh? I look forward to seeing what they have for Khitai and icy Tevet.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
A whole other section of the map will be revealed, eh? I look forward to seeing what they have for Khitai and icy Tevet.

To take you more seriously than you intend to be taken, I doubt they'd do Cold Humans With Furs, because Northern Alliance exists, and the oft-rumored Ophidia may well check some of the design flourishes people expect of Shma-shmay. On top of Mantic being less and less interested in rifling through the castoffs of Shmarhammer Shmantasy Shmattles when they know they need to focus on their own game for it to keep growing.

selling STLs as upgrades to the plastic kits is unexpected but could be the best of both worlds
would also make distribution easier as retailers with a 3D printer just need to stock the plastics and can to the resin upgrades on demand

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
A whole other section of the map will be revealed, eh? I look forward to seeing what they have for Khitai and icy Tevet.

it is not like an asian theme was teaseared some time ago as Salamanders got their ship design from a people further away

and now Ophidia + another faction could mean a lot, and of course as they need someone new to fight against (as we got Halflings and Riftforged Orcs), but I doubt there will be 2 human themed ones
and Arabia VS India could be interesting

STL upgrade bits is a great idea I've been clamoring for (in general, not for Mantic in particular) for a while.

 DarkBlack wrote:
Mantic planning to revisit Vanguard in the long term.

Vanguard is one of those that looks like it would be my favourite game ever, and I have a full army assem;bed and rule book ready to go, but never could find anyone to play with :( I do hope they give it another solid go.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

>Kings of War did really well during the pandemic, but growth is slowed now.

 DarkBlack wrote:

4th edition will come later due to recent rules development and releases.

Sounds to me like Mantic might be trying to spike their sales by releasing a new edition, has there been that much change to warrant a new edition already? 3rd feels like it is still new.

.Mikes. wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:
Mantic planning to revisit Vanguard in the long term.

Vanguard is one of those that looks like it would be my favourite game ever, and I have a full army assem;bed and rule book ready to go, but never could find anyone to play with :( I do hope they give it another solid go.

Ronnie mentioned that no games are great in their first edition and that they could do it better now. So we can hope.

stonehorse wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

4th edition will come later due to recent rules development and releases.

Sounds to me like Mantic might be trying to spike their sales by releasing a new edition, has there been that much change to warrant a new edition already? 3rd feels like it is still new.

What?
Ronnie (and I) said that 4th edition is FURTHER AWAY. This book is basically version 3.5, so a new edition will NOT be needed for some time.

 DarkBlack wrote:

.Mikes. wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:
Mantic planning to revisit Vanguard in the long term.

Vanguard is one of those that looks like it would be my favourite game ever, and I have a full army assem;bed and rule book ready to go, but never could find anyone to play with :( I do hope they give it another solid go.

Ronnie mentioned that no games are great in their first edition and that they could do it better now. So we can hope.

stonehorse wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

4th edition will come later due to recent rules development and releases.

Sounds to me like Mantic might be trying to spike their sales by releasing a new edition, has there been that much change to warrant a new edition already? 3rd feels like it is still new.

What?
Ronnie (and I) said that 4th edition is FURTHER AWAY. This book is basically version 3.5, so a new edition will NOT be needed for some time.

No, you said later, that isn't the same as further away, by later it seemed to imply you meant not too long from now. What you meant to say was the need for a 4th edition will be pushed back due to the 3.5 book. So it will be late, not later.

If talking about a set of releases and one is mentioned as being later it means that it is coming at the end of those items.

Seriously?
I am not arguing the meaning of the word later on the internet.

I meant to say what I said.
You misunderstood and I clarified.

 DarkBlack wrote:
Seriously?
I am not arguing the meaning of the word later on the internet.

I meant to say what I said.
You misunderstood and I clarified.

'4th edition will come later due to recent rules development and releases.'

Is not the same as.

'Ronnie (and I) said that 4th edition is FURTHER AWAY. '

It is more the context in which you said it. It is fine we all make mistakes, just have the grace to admit too them

Those phrases mean the same thing.

Did you also not understand it when I said that I am not arguing about this?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
STL upgrade bits is a great idea I've been clamoring for (in general, not for Mantic in particular) for a while.

Whole-heartedly agree. One of the best things about having a resin printer and a few Patreon subscriptions is how quickly my digital bits box has accrued.

Having the companies that make the plastic minis also design STL bits that require no or minimal customization to fit their minis would be even better!

Just my personnal thoughts here

-Mantic’s current focus is to “recruit” new players.

Is it not the focus for, like, every game company in the world ? It's like saying "we intend to make water wet". That was really seriously presented as a revelation ?

Because if it wasn't Mantic Games focus so far...gosh that explains so many things, actually. But not in a good way.

-Uncharted Empires was kept separate in case of legal issues regarding copyright. Mantic are no longer concerned.

Translation : "We totally knew we were basically copy pasting GW's stuff at that time. Now, we're making sure it's less obvious."

-Vanguard has not been the entry point that Mantic hoped, ambush is to fill that role.

Not surprising. Game was too unnecessarily complicated to be a real entry point for new players and KoW's background as attachment for its universe is not appealing enough to make a proper bridge for that. Vanguard was more often presented to "use any miniature you want" as a stand alone game than an entry point of KoW products.

-The app is a website (subscription based) that will primarily be an army builder and also host a living rulebook, “math hammer” calculator, tournament organizing software, will allow Mantic to collect data and publish rankings. Intended to be for all Mantic systems.

Smells a bit fishy with that "data collection" part, especially in those days where people are a bit more accurately aware of the protection of their private datas...better watch twice what will be written on the website about this when it will be released.

-Mantic looking at stls for upgrade kits and models that are not viable for them to produce commercially (resin models are expensive to make).

"Resin models are expensive to make"...no feth, Sherlock.

It will all end up about the price of their stl, but I'm not expecting they will be that interesting in the end. Unless Mantic Games model quality greatly improves...but if they say "resin models are expensive to make", I suspect that means they can't afford to pay skilled 3D sculptors for a rightful price as well and that will show in the quality of the end product. And if they want to make it profitable...it will certainly not be competitive to other 3d file platform like cult3D that are dirt cheap (when not free).

Then if they do something like a patreon and given they already have a community of faithful fans...if handled well with properly paid people to manage it, sure, why not.

Buying physical plastic kits are expected to remain more appealing than 3D printing your own.

Oh, you sweet naive child. For customers who don't know what 3D printing is, sure, it may look that way. But good luck with that idea !

Frankly speaking ? If the kits stays as they are (generic fantasy low quality model with basic customisation) and their prices will (eventually) keep rising...it will be less likely to happen. The level of customisation and quality from professionnal 3D sculptors with much more characterful models is already out of the window nowadays, for prices that no plastic kit can ever compete.

Neoprene area terrain planned.

The stuff of competitions. As long as it doesn't translate too much on objective areas / physical manifestation to fulfill scenario victory conditions (that makes the battlefield look ugly if there are too many of them on it, IMHO).


But otherwise, it's good to hype the community with news.

Flat features like roads and lakes are great in neoprene. Forests? Only as an "area terrain" base you can move 3d trees around on.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Flat features like roads and lakes are great in neoprene. Forests? Only as an "area terrain" base you can move 3d trees around on.

Yeah, this!

Don't forget ruins and rough terrain.

Sarouan wrote:
Don't forget ruins and rough terrain.

Rough terrain yes but ruins I do prefer to have in 3D

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
Don't forget ruins and rough terrain.

Rough terrain yes but ruins I do prefer to have in 3D

Totally ! But it's more in line with KoW's rules to use an area from which you can temporarily remove terrain that can make unit moves more awkward, just like forests. A neoprene base for that purpose is the summum.

(personnally, I use transparent plastic sheets cut to the right dimensions)

Most/Many games look to recruit 'old' players who have gamed before (often on GW games)

I suspect Ronnie means they're moving a bit away from that (along with less copy pasting old GW WHFB armies) to looking to pick up genuine shiney eyed newcomers

interesting how they intend to do so

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


interesting how they intend to do so

My bet is on using magical apps to find incredible data to use and summon them directly in KoW clubs / tournaments.

Joke aside...apart from touching to the big "no no" of the old players - meaning having "simpler, more newcomer friendly rules" and developping gaming clubs / stores that can easily dedicate themselves to that...basically what GW is doing and Mantic Games tries its best not to be associated with...there's actually no magical solution here.

nearly all companies try to get people into the hobby that come from GW

the only one that comes to my mind that did not was FFG/AMG because they focus on board gamers

Sarouan wrote:

It will all end up about the price of their stl, but I'm not expecting they will be that interesting in the end. Unless Mantic Games model quality greatly improves...but if they say "resin models are expensive to make", I suspect that means they can't afford to pay skilled 3D sculptors for a rightful price as well and that will show in the quality of the end product. And if they want to make it profitable...it will certainly not be competitive to other 3d file platform like cult3D that are dirt cheap (when not free).

they simple say that they will offer the current Resin parts they are selling as 3D files (which they have already as this is how to make their masters)

no one said they want to compete with free copies of GW models, which makes no sense anyway as bits made for GW models hardly fit the Mantic ones
and there are not really many doing bits to convert Mantic models, so there is no competition at all

and don't confuse model quality with design, and I guess you never got any of their resin models if think their sculptor is bad

PS: pre-orders are up
https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/ogres/

Warrior Horde is 35€, Shooter Horde 40€, Siege Breaker 45€, and Chariots also 45€

Board games seem like an ideal method.

lord_blackfang wrote:Flat features like roads and lakes are great in neoprene. Forests? Only as an "area terrain" base you can move 3d trees around on.

To be clear: neoprene was mentioned as a way to define the area of terrain while talking about Mantic's upcoming physical models of Sci-Fi trees (they would probably do well as weird fantasy trees too).
There was also mention of corner pieces intended to define where exactly a ruin ends for the Sci-Fi terrain.

Sarouan wrote:

-Mantic’s current focus is to “recruit” new players.

Is it not the focus for, like, every game company in the world ? It's like saying "we intend to make water wet". That was really seriously presented as a revelation ?

Obviously not. It was an observation by the person writing the summary.

While it should be a goal of gaming companies; it is not necessarily the primary focus.
A company might want to focus on making more games, getting their in house production set up, managing a business during COVID or working on a new edition or book (for example).

Well that starter is aggressively priced, it's basically the 90€ Empire of Dust army with the new rulebook and 2 regiments of Ogres thrown in for another 10€

Mantic baseline prices are getting kinda steep tho.

Are the EoD plastic models as bad as they look in the photos or is it just a poor paint job?

Plus how are Mantic plastics nowadays? I enjoyed the early days of their Undead and Elves but was burned by the atrocious original Basilean infantry and have never been back to the KOW range since.

Ogre prices stayed the same with new models, which is great

Starters were always a good deal as the 2nd force is free

and I guess the mentioned Ambush sets, that come with pre-made army lists (which is the target point for new players, play out of the box without the need to read/learn what is good or bad), will be aggressive priced as well


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Plus how are Mantic plastics nowadays? I enjoyed the early days of their Undead and Elves but was burned by the atrocious original Basilean infantry and have never been back to the KOW range since.

the models in between are good, like the Abyssals, Abyssal Dwarfs and the updated Basileans
some of the later sets have issues with soft/no details on the side (made by a different company) and the Ogres look to be good again

kodos wrote:nearly all companies try to get people into the hobby that come from GW

the only one that comes to my mind that did not was FFG/AMG because they focus on board gamers

Oh far from all. That's why I wrote "game companies" in general. Sure, Mantic Games does draw from GW crowd specifically mainly because of its history and its own products. Also they're on the same island than their big brother, which does play a part as well, like it or not.

But other miniature producing companies - often on much smaller scales, let's be honest - do also draw a lot from RPG players, most famous of all being Dungeons and Dragons, and the huge market of historical games.

And of course, there are the companies that go way beyond the niche market of that, like indeed boardgames and well...video games. They're still games, in the end. Even Hasbro is bigger than GW in terms of market, anyway. Why do you think Heroquest was so successful in its time ? Certainly not because it was a partnership with GW drawing to GW customers (they weren't the same size as today for sure as well)...but really because it was intended at the big mainstream market outside of the niche of a bunch of weird wargamers playing with monster miniatures.

and don't confuse model quality with design, and I guess you never got any of their resin models if think their sculptor is bad

I do have them, I still have my fire and water elementals. The most recent are my halfling knights and hunters (with their resin upgrade sprue). Those last ones...let's say I do also remember the bubbles ruining some details and too thin parts of bows / arrows making me break a few of them while glueing them (with lots of cursing words). :(

So I can tell in comparison to what does, let's say, Artisan Guild's 3d models, I can totally say Mantic Games models do pale in comparison in term of quality and design (bubbles in resin, I can also do it myself with my 3D printer for cheaper than what I bought them on Mantic Games' online shop, import taxes included).

Simply said : they're average. They're not a steal for the money they're selling them, but they're not blowing anything either for that same amount of money.

And...that's still the problem at core when you want to sell the miniatures with the game. You can always have a good game with awesome rules, and sell it to your friends so that they play with you. But the average miniatures...they're just giving a "meh" feeling. So usually, what do veterans advice to new players when they want to introduce them KoW and they're not really enthousiasmed by the miniatures and the fact they'll have to take litterally dozens of them ? They say "you can use any miniature you want, even GW's !".

And that's it. New players buying the rules on Mantic Games's shop, and miniatures elsewhere, including 3D sculptors. Which is totally not what Mantic Games would like, since they're not making a profit by just selling rules. There are actually lots of 3d printed armies / other source miniatures on Mantic Games social media, and it's not a hazard. It's mainly because Mantic Games miniatures aren't that great.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:Board games seem like an ideal method.

Done right, yes. Heroquest is the perfect example. Dungeon Saga could have been if there was better focus and well...all the drama with its rule creator, whatever. At the very least not replacing it with Villain Saga...sure, it sounds different than HeroQuest and it's funny, but...villains aren't that appealing to play for the mainstream market. Kids would rather be heroes. That's why it failed IMHO (and the opinion of a lot of DS fans, actually - bring back Dungeon Saga properly, damn it ! Ahem sorry ).

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:Are the EoD plastic models as bad as they look in the photos or is it just a poor paint job?

Sadly, they're not great in themselves. But they do the job for the price. Somewhat.

Plus how are Mantic plastics nowadays? I enjoyed the early days of their Undead and Elves but was burned by the atrocious original Basilean infantry and have never been back to the KOW range since.

It really depends. Old kits like early undead and elves are still around and well what they are, but recent do also vary in quality and practicality of design. For example, I have the plastic halflings that I use to make a huge army. I can tell after building 200 of them that the way the sprues are designed and lack of details in some parts do make me remember old sprues from historical games. They do the job, don't misunderstand me, but sometimes it's clunky when you try to build them. Like having some space between parts that are meant to be glued to each other, or dog ears being weirdly too long / joining each other because of the way it was molded on the sprue.

In general, they're not made to be looked in details. Since they're meant to be put on regiments and thus have a global view, it does the job for the price. But you won't see them a lot as a Golden Demon model for a good reason ; because you quickly see their defaults when you put them on scrutiny or try to highlight too much their details. In short : you don't really want to spend a lot of time on them, because it would be a waste (or too much work for an average model in the end).

On the other hand, it can be very refreshing to say "ah I just painted the base color with shades and it's good enough like this. Oh wait I already made 20 of them ? Sweet !".

 DarkBlack wrote:


While it should be a goal of gaming companies; it is not necessarily the primary focus.

Which is why so many tend to die on the road, because they failed attracting enough new blood for the community to survive.

I saw that so many times in the past with so many games I loved...and it still hurts me to see there are some that keep making the same mistake, again and again.