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2015/03/10 19:01:11
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Can anyone tell me where I can find a Tyranid bastion at or a ADL. I am not good at modeling and I would like not to use the ones that GW have. It just doesn't feel right using them.
I am trying to come up with a Null deployment list in my own style.
The question is it competitive?? What would you replace or change around?
krootman. wrote: If you can swing it get a tablet and put everything on it.
I have every piece of rules currently legal (including fw) easily accessible on my ipad mini (first gen, got it cheap). You can't beat the convenience. I put it in a draw string back and carry it around every gt i go to and I never have to ask anyone what their stuff does.
That's something I've been interested in doing. Do you have the physical copies of each book as well or did you get the e-copies only?
Just the ecopies, which is a change for me cause I own every paper codex since 2nd ed
2015/03/10 21:47:38
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
shadowfinder wrote: Can anyone tell me where I can find a Tyranid bastion at or a ADL. I am not good at modeling and I would like not to use the ones that GW have. It just doesn't feel right using them.
ADL I'd go with wargammas. I have their old spore and it is well done, not seen their ADL in person but I'd trust its quality.
For a Bastion, I am using the gw one but adding some simple greenstuff touches to it to make it fit the part (think Aliens and the walls in the colony). I have an old bit from the starter set that had nids vs marines (battle for macragge) so I have a nice base for a nid comms.
snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."
Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away."
2015/03/10 21:49:57
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
shadowfinder wrote: Can anyone tell me where I can find a Tyranid bastion at or a ADL. I am not good at modeling and I would like not to use the ones that GW have. It just doesn't feel right using them.
++ Fortifications and Stronghold Assault (2013) (Fortification Detachment) ++
+ Fortification +
Imperial Bastion [Comms Relay]
I'd drop Hive Commander and Old Adversary. Neither are really doing much for you in the list. I mean what are you outflanking with Hive Commander? Mucoloids? Why do you want your tyrant in close combat where he'd use old adversary?
Biovores have no synpase to babysit them, so not a fan of them in this particular build.
The Trygon is a major pointsink, but could be fun. Prolly not competitive but in conjunction with your other heavies he could work.
9 extra VPs for big guns never tire -- 5 of which are easy to get. Not sure I like that.
snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."
Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away."
2015/03/10 22:13:21
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
shadowfinder wrote:
Can anyone tell me where I can find a Tyranid bastion at or a ADL. I am not good at modeling and I would like not to use the ones that GW have. It just doesn't feel right using them.
ADL I'd go with wargammas. I have their old spore and it is well done, not seen their ADL in person but I'd trust its quality.
++ Fortifications and Stronghold Assault (2013) (Fortification Detachment) ++
+ Fortification +
Imperial Bastion [Comms Relay]
I'd drop Hive Commander and Old Adversary. Neither are really doing much for you in the list. I mean what are you outflanking with Hive Commander? Mucoloids? Why do you want your tyrant in close combat where he'd use old adversary?
Biovores have no synpase to babysit them, so not a fan of them in this particular build.
The Trygon is a major pointsink, but could be fun. Prolly not competitive but in conjunction with your other heavies he could work.
9 extra VPs for big guns never tire -- 5 of which are easy to get. Not sure I like that.
Sorry I forgot to type in fighter ace for Hive commanded and old adversary. Battle scribe doesn't have Fighter ace as a option. So I used the other two to get the numbers right.
Biovores don't really need a babysitter as they get to shot when they come in from reserves. and the are in the Leviathan formation so I get a reroll for their IB. They are mainly their to claim a objective on my side of the board later in the game as they don't run away. With 3 wounds and cover they should hold up pretty good. At lest I theory.
I hadn't thought f big guns. But I will have to cross that road when I get there. I am not sure about 5 easy kills but That number is a concern. I just don't see what to replace them with to be honest. The Heavy support is by far our best slot. Not counting flyrant spamm which I strongly dislike.The pods are need for the list to work. As for the trygon I could drop him for 2 Mawlocs. But I dislike there unreliability. The trygon I know what he going to do. The added synapse is nice as well.
I also have found that the trygon is rarely targeted when you have 2 Flyrants, 2-3 dakka fexs coming in. He is just not that threating. Which is funny really.
I been thinking of dropping the tfex for a 3rd dakka fex. that would free up some points to play with. Just not sure what to do with it.
2015/03/12 13:02:10
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Two Mawlocs's hits harder than a Trygon in just about every manner, has double the amount of wounds, is much less likely to Mishap, has both Hit and Run + a great reposition / kill deny ability if it's low health (both of which are great in by themselves but even better in conjunction), and that is even assuming you miss both the blasts, which often enough you will not. The unreliability is them being great for their points some games or just ok for their points in others, which seems far preferable to me than the consistency of just being overpriced every game, like the Trygon is.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/03/12 13:18:17
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2015/03/13 00:19:46
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Anything you would change? I really miss triple Flyrants but I think I don't have a large enough ground force when I spam Flyrants. Open to suggestions
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/13 00:21:16
YMDC = nightmare
2015/03/13 13:15:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
It seems to beat deathstars or heavy hitting units of any type you just send chaff there way and tie them up. It is very MSU and it has a heck of a lot of units in it.
2015/03/13 13:31:50
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Anything you would change? I really miss triple Flyrants but I think I don't have a large enough ground force when I spam Flyrants. Open to suggestions
Tervigons are just way too expensive for what you get. With the ability for everything to score there purpose is minimal.
2015/03/13 13:47:02
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Anything you would change? I really miss triple Flyrants but I think I don't have a large enough ground force when I spam Flyrants. Open to suggestions
Tervigons are just way too expensive for what you get. With the ability for everything to score there purpose is minimal.
I disagree. Especially in lower point games, an outflank tervigon that shows up and spawns in your opponents deployment zone is a very good tactic. It can threaten with it's egrub as well and bubble wrap itself for a solid Obsec unit in their face. Great for Maelstrom. With A skytyrant and 2 flyrants you are posing a lot of threats all of which serve a purpose. I run a very similar list with great success. YMMV
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2015/03/13 15:17:42
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Anything you would change? I really miss triple Flyrants but I think I don't have a large enough ground force when I spam Flyrants. Open to suggestions
How are you using the Skytyrant? Is he staying in the back field or going forward?
It looks to me you are using him to babysit the gaunts and the venom. You can outflank the Tervigon. Or are you outflanking the gaunts and moving the skytrant forward? Not sure how you are using this.
Wouldn't it be better t take the Leviathan detachment and have a third flyrant. You would then have some points left over for some biovores to drop some large blast templates around. Maybe some devourers in the ganut squad.
Personally I would drop the 3rd tyrant all together and go for some other units. I just don't know the play style you are trying to do here.
2015/03/13 15:42:10
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I did want to try out Skytyrant but I just don't know. My plan was to Outflank either the Termagants or Tervigon depending on opponent, either OF Tervigon and use Termagants as ablative wounds for Skytyrant or Termagants and send off small swarms to objectives from Tervigon. Skytyrant moves up the field and Flyrants deal with the biggest threats to it (Ignore Cover, blast, large volume of dakka).
Just tempted to drop Skytyrant all together. Maybe go for 3 Tyrannocytes and 2x Dakkafex and Tervigon with Mucolids as troops. But then I have no reserve maniplation aside a Warlord Trait...
Man 1250 is tough for what I want to do
YMDC = nightmare
2015/03/13 15:58:39
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
It seems to beat deathstars or heavy hitting units of any type you just send chaff there way and tie them up. It is very MSU and it has a heck of a lot of units in it.
Yeah... you are about 10 pages late to the party
OrdoSean is his screen name here on dakka and he's already posted a few batreps and comments a few pages back.
snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."
Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away."
2015/03/13 19:01:46
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Anything you would change? I really miss triple Flyrants but I think I don't have a large enough ground force when I spam Flyrants. Open to suggestions
Tervigons are just way too expensive for what you get. With the ability for everything to score there purpose is minimal.
I disagree. Especially in lower point games, an outflank tervigon that shows up and spawns in your opponents deployment zone is a very good tactic. It can threaten with it's egrub as well and bubble wrap itself for a solid Obsec unit in their face. Great for Maelstrom. With A skytyrant and 2 flyrants you are posing a lot of threats all of which serve a purpose. I run a very similar list with great success. YMMV
For the cost of a Flyrant, it's squishier, way less mobile (like, one of he slowest unit in the game against one of the fastest type of difference), has no Devourers, and gets wrecked in combat. It's extremely overpriced.
Sure, it does put a big fat MC in their grill for them to deal with, but this isn't a good thing! This is a good thing when it's paying 140 pts for 6 W like you get with Mawloc - when it's 240 pts like the outflanking Terv it's the most cost efficient units on field for your opponent to be shooting at.
In lower points games you do get more mileage out of Tervs, this is true. But 1250 isn't low enough for it to really be worth it, and if you did take one the absolute last thing you want to do is outflank it.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2015/03/14 15:05:29
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Yeah that's what I thought. I just don't know where to go
Two Flyrants is a definite, either Malanthrope/Venomthrope is a strong pick too (depends on whether I want to run Forge World or not). It's just a matter of whether I'll be playing EW or MoW. If it's EW then three Flyrants would probably have the green light with Mucolids as troops, if MoW then I need a ground force so it would have to be two Flyrants with Rippers.
YMDC = nightmare
2015/03/14 19:49:30
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
any ideas on how to deal with the meta o super invulnerable necrons and triple wraith knights? ( I have just returned from a 3 game tournament i went 1/0/2 on.)
I'm thinking sky tyrant swarm to deal with the wraith knights, not sure about the crons.... what do you guys think?
2015/03/15 15:29:22
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wraithknights can be tarpitted - Skytyrant could easily do that.
For Necrons, volume of shots will be key. I'm tempted to go back to Living Artillery simply for S4 AP4 Biovores. Take out the support that improves everything else though (Canoptek Spyder in Harvest formation, Overlord in Reclamation Legion, Stalkers, etc) and things should fall off the table. They're more durable, but not as killy as before, so you should have most of your stuff intact.
YMDC = nightmare
2015/03/15 16:03:37
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Frozocrone wrote: Wraithknights can be tarpitted - Skytyrant could easily do that.
For Necrons, volume of shots will be key. I'm tempted to go back to Living Artillery simply for S4 AP4 Biovores. Take out the support that improves everything else though (Canoptek Spyder in Harvest formation, Overlord in Reclamation Legion, Stalkers, etc) and things should fall off the table. They're more durable, but not as killy as before, so you should have most of your stuff intact.
yeah thats what I was thinking towards - I just prefer to play with small model count - maybe its time to try out the sky tyrant formation - is 30 gargoyles the right amount in 1750? I wouldn't be so sure about not being as killy before, apart from Tesla and the ctan they haven't had any other nerf. Plus destroyers are very good at killing Nid MC's out of cover.
2015/03/15 16:24:18
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Frozocrone wrote: Wraithknights can be tarpitted - Skytyrant could easily do that.
For Necrons, volume of shots will be key. I'm tempted to go back to Living Artillery simply for S4 AP4 Biovores. Take out the support that improves everything else though (Canoptek Spyder in Harvest formation, Overlord in Reclamation Legion, Stalkers, etc) and things should fall off the table. They're more durable, but not as killy as before, so you should have most of your stuff intact.
yeah thats what I was thinking towards - I just prefer to play with small model count - maybe its time to try out the sky tyrant formation - is 30 gargoyles the right amount in 1750? I wouldn't be so sure about not being as killy before, apart from Tesla and the ctan they haven't had any other nerf. Plus destroyers are very good at killing Nid MC's out of cover.
Just a word of caution, both Necrons and Eldar have the volume-of-fire to chew through just 1 blob unit like the Skytyrant. WK's are usually supported by wave serpents, who have the firepower to handle a blob. Necrons have wraiths with 4+ RP that will hold up the the more expensive Skytyrant formation for quite some time and, when supported by Necron firepower, can actually overcome them through attrition.
I am thinking that you need to support your Skytyrant formation with another blob unit. Maybe now is the time to reconsider the tervgion + 30-termagant unit. Tie up the Necron units and then spawn more gants to go grab objectives. Definitely something to consider.
Frozocrone wrote: Wraithknights can be tarpitted - Skytyrant could easily do that.
For Necrons, volume of shots will be key. I'm tempted to go back to Living Artillery simply for S4 AP4 Biovores. Take out the support that improves everything else though (Canoptek Spyder in Harvest formation, Overlord in Reclamation Legion, Stalkers, etc) and things should fall off the table. They're more durable, but not as killy as before, so you should have most of your stuff intact.
yeah thats what I was thinking towards - I just prefer to play with small model count - maybe its time to try out the sky tyrant formation - is 30 gargoyles the right amount in 1750? I wouldn't be so sure about not being as killy before, apart from Tesla and the ctan they haven't had any other nerf. Plus destroyers are very good at killing Nid MC's out of cover.
That's true. But most lists I see take the Decurion, which is insanely durable. But you're forced to take detachments in that, which add up in points ery quickly.
I want to use ma Tervigon again...
YMDC = nightmare
2015/03/15 21:14:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
So everyone doing the Venom in the box kinda just wings it?
My personal (RAW based) interpretation is this. A Venomthrope in a Bastion does not auto pass IB, he must roll for it. This means on a 1-3, he is a single model and it goes to 4-5. On a 4-5, he must declare an assault in the assault phase if he I able. If he didn't get out in the movement phase though, it is not required as you can't assault straight out of a Building. On a 6, he gets rage and it still doesn't matter as he can't assault unless he disembarked.
So, if he isn't in Synapse range, the only way this affects him is that if he fails IB, he can't shoot a weapon (like a Heavy Bolter) which must then auto fire.
2015/03/16 00:18:05
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
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.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
