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Made in jp
Bounding Assault Marine




Stuck in the snow.

 blood reaper wrote:
I have really severe doubts that the rules for the HH are going to end up changing - at least I have doubts they will move to the format of 8th and 9th.

As far as we know the HH team can barely put out a book every year or so; it's been a state of shambles since Bligh died and it's clear the FW do not have a great deal of resources. Sweeping the board and starting over would be insane given their lack of even basic resources.


I saw someone point out that there's a scatter die in the front of the leaked image so there's a pretty high chance it's still the same rules.
   
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 Duskweaver wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Gw handles fees. If he had to pay tax error happened somewhere. Edit: this for eu orders. Not sure outside eu

I think the problem is that, while both the UK and Switzerland have free trade agreements with the EU, they do not have one with each other. So UK goods sent to Switzerland can accrue import duties / tarifs.

EDIT: I was (partially) wrong. The UK does actually have a trade agreement with Switzerland. It's not a no-tariffs agreement, though.


Aaaa he's in switzerland. So brexit affected switzeland people as well despite Swiss not being in EU? Fascinating. Had missed that one. Thanks.

2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





Its hardly a "state of shambles". The releases are glacially slow due to lack of resources (and probably this move to mainstream being slowed by covid, these have been in the pipeline for a really long time) but the heresy in general is a far less shambolic affair than 9th ed 40k is.

I can't see them changing the ruleset either. And I don't think they should. A change to the psychic phase and an update to the first few legions is all it really needs. The rumour of dreads being monsterous creatures instead of vehicles also sounds interesting!
   
Made in gb
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On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Jack Flask wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
I have really severe doubts that the rules for the HH are going to end up changing - at least I have doubts they will move to the format of 8th and 9th.

As far as we know the HH team can barely put out a book every year or so; it's been a state of shambles since Bligh died and it's clear the FW do not have a great deal of resources. Sweeping the board and starting over would be insane given their lack of even basic resources.


I saw someone point out that there's a scatter die in the front of the leaked image so there's a pretty high chance it's still the same rules.


I may be completely missing the mark here (and talking about something else) but I saw on Twitter that wasn't someone trolling and had photoshopped a scatter dice into a photo of miniatures? They released the photo and then just sat back with popcorn to watch the fires burn.*

* I can't remember if it was these minis or something to do with a new Imperial Guard boxset?

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Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

The Gaunt's Ghosts boxed set has an image of the new Ork Boyz fighting Cadians on it, someone photoshopped in a scatter dice after the HH image started circulating.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 14:21:17


 
   
Made in gb
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 Kanluwen wrote:
The Gaunt's Ghosts boxed set has an image of the new Ork Boyz fighting Cadians on it, someone photoshopped in a scatter dice after the HH image started circulating.


Ah OK that must be it - thanks mate

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Southeastern PA, USA

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 zedmeister wrote:
Well, this box set is going to be expensive. Using existing model prices as a guide:

Contemptor - £35
4x MkIV/MkIII - £120
2x Cataphractii - £80
Heros - £30
Most expensive Land Raider (subbing in for a spartan) - £60

Leaving us, at minimum (unlikely), £325 worth of models. Anyone got an idea on how that compares to Indomitus?


Most of those units are priced far at a premium vs when they were part of the box set. Calth was 30 marines, 5 terminators, 2 characters and a contemptor for iirc $150. Adding 5 terminators, a spartan, and 10 more marines I could see it going for $230 to 250 range


A Terminator squad, tactical squad and a Spartan represent probably $200 in models at least. Call me skeptical that those will be bundled in at a 50-60% discount.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 blood reaper wrote:
I have really severe doubts that the rules for the HH are going to end up changing - at least I have doubts they will move to the format of 8th and 9th.

As far as we know the HH team can barely put out a book every year or so; it's been a state of shambles since Bligh died and it's clear the FW do not have a great deal of resources. Sweeping the board and starting over would be insane given their lack of even basic resources.


Agree that the rules aren’t changing. Which will also continue holding the game back in terms of popularity, but it is what it is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/16 17:13:05


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tneva82 wrote:
 Duskweaver wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Gw handles fees. If he had to pay tax error happened somewhere. Edit: this for eu orders. Not sure outside eu

I think the problem is that, while both the UK and Switzerland have free trade agreements with the EU, they do not have one with each other. So UK goods sent to Switzerland can accrue import duties / tarifs.

EDIT: I was (partially) wrong. The UK does actually have a trade agreement with Switzerland. It's not a no-tariffs agreement, though.


Aaaa he's in switzerland. So brexit affected switzeland people as well despite Swiss not being in EU? Fascinating. Had missed that one. Thanks.


All countries that had deals with the EU had/has to negotiate new ones with the UK.

For people in the EU proper, the GW situation is not that bad. GW ships customs free, and Wayland too (but with local VAT which might be more or less than UK VAT depending on where you live, and no free shipping any more so a couple of quid extra).

   
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Well wayland also now charges for shipping fees which all things combined means flgs here beats wayland for price. Why pay more for privilege of waiting longer

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Yea Wayland charges 26 GBP to my location now no matter the order size.

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Postage costs from UK to Europe are insane at the moment. From looking at this the other day, I can post cheaper to Europe from here in Oz, in some cases for around half the cost.

 
   
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 gorgon wrote:


Agree that the rules aren’t changing. Which will also continue holding the game back in terms of popularity, but it is what it is.


I hope this will be the case too. There has been some really combative, actually quite spiteful, commentary on social media about whether the rules will change over recent days.

There is a core (I would say definitely majority) who absolutely do not want the rules to update, and in fact enjoy the relative stability of the HH rules (being out of the rulebook/codex cycle of 40k). But, there are some pretty loud voices (I would say evangelists) extolling the virtues of 9th, while saying how bad 7th is, and really that the "grognards need to get with the program" and the like. I don't think that kind of dismissive/patronising talk is really helpful at all to be honest.

While I definitely think the current rules have shortcomings, if they are bumped forward to 9th-esque rules where will it end? When 40k 10th comes along in a year or two will the same people be pushing for 'getting with the program' for the new version again? I think you either make 30k a sub-set (almost codex) of 40k and hang off that ruleset, update when that updates, or you just let it do its own thing. The concept will only ever be a niche of 40k in terms of popularity, and I think for anyone that is really 'into' it its not that much work to learn the rules, and you can still have all of the fancy/high price books and miniature releases to cater for those fans.

But that's just my tuppence worth, they may well just completely ignore that rationale!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/17 10:09:18


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Speaking of stability today I'll be demoing adeptus titanicus. Thing is haven't been able to play MYSELF since 2019 autumn...damn it is refreshing to play a game where game rules are fairly stable. I had no issues getting back to the game.

2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in ro
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





I've found that people who want 9th rules tend to be the people who just want to play Legion armies against 40k armies. They don't so much want to play Horus Heresy as play 40k with a different shade of Space Marne army.

By comparison in communities where there was a strong 30k vs 30k community, the desire for the HH ruleset to remain within the sphere of 7th (or at least, not become the simplified 8th ruleset) is much stronger.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/17 10:32:09


 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Pacific wrote:

There is a core (I would say definitely majority) who absolutely do not want the rules to update, and in fact enjoy the relative stability of the HH rules (being out of the rulebook/codex cycle of 40k). But, there are some pretty loud voices (I would say evangelists) extolling the virtues of 9th, while saying how bad 7th is, and really that the "grognards need to get with the program" and the like. I don't think that kind of dismissive/patronising talk is really helpful at all to be honest.

The problem for GW is that yes, it is probably true that majority of current HH players don't want to the rules to change, but majority of potential HH players would most likely prefer it to be compatible with the 9th. HH was in its most popular when it was compatible with 40K and there was free movement of players between the games. Keeping the old rules makes it more difficult to attract new players but changing the rules risks alienating the current players. That's quite a pickle.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in se
Fresh-Faced New User




tneva82 wrote:Well wayland also now charges for shipping fees which all things combined means flgs here beats wayland for price. Why pay more for privilege of waiting longer

I can't find any Swedish store that does even 10 % off and shipping is about £7.50 (closer to £10 for Finland, I believe) so it's still the better deal for us.

lord_blackfang wrote:Yea Wayland charges 26 GBP to my location now no matter the order size.

That's harsh. Only courier shipping available, I guess?

Well, that's enough off-topic from me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/17 11:51:13


 
   
Made in us
Snord






 Crimson wrote:
The problem for GW is that yes, it is probably true that majority of current HH players don't want to the rules to change, but majority of potential HH players would most likely prefer it to be compatible with the 9th. HH was in its most popular when it was compatible with 40K and there was free movement of players between the games. Keeping the old rules makes it more difficult to attract new players but changing the rules risks alienating the current players. That's quite a pickle.


Horus heresy was most popular when the major internal driving force behind it was still alive. I don't think it has anything to do with the rules it maintains.

The people who have stuck with it have done so in spite of the fall off in game support and releases and in spite of the laughable prices forge world charges. I feel like stabbing them in the back by going to 9th would be 8th Edition WFB to Age of Sigmar levels of backlash.
   
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 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
The problem for GW is that yes, it is probably true that majority of current HH players don't want to the rules to change, but majority of potential HH players would most likely prefer it to be compatible with the 9th. HH was in its most popular when it was compatible with 40K and there was free movement of players between the games. Keeping the old rules makes it more difficult to attract new players but changing the rules risks alienating the current players. That's quite a pickle.


Horus heresy was most popular when the major internal driving force behind it was still alive. I don't think it has anything to do with the rules it maintains.

The people who have stuck with it have done so in spite of the fall off in game support and releases and in spite of the laughable prices forge world charges. I feel like stabbing them in the back by going to 9th would be 8th Edition WFB to Age of Sigmar levels of backlash.

HH was at it's most popular when 40k was in it's worst ever state. Whilst many people were looking into other games, many still wanted to stick within the GW sphere, AoS was still a game of bashing action figures together, Specialist Games wasn't there yet, so that just left Horus Heresy.

Even if HH had gone over to 8th/9th, the numbers would still have plummeted because most people want/wanted to play 40k, it's just HH was 'close enough' that it made for a good distraction until 40k was improved. Sure you'd have a lot more people playing Legion armies against 40k armies, but that's not 'really' HH.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/17 13:00:02


 
   
Made in us
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

IT should be it's own rules set. 40K is mainly marine on marine already, but in this setting there is very little Xenos with odd rules to worry about. it can be a simpler and cleaner rule set just because there is so little variation in armies. Yes each army has unique troops, but nothing earth shattering that rewrites whole swaths of army builds. GW can make the base game standard and then have 20 Legion books to pump out before version 2.0 (they won't get near all of them done before that happens though). It's a big financial win for them to have two separate rules as they can sell twice as many rulebooks and codex books.

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Atlanta, GA

The people who have stuck with it have done so in spite of the fall off in game support and releases and in spite of the laughable prices forge world charges. I feel like stabbing them in the back by going to 9th would be 8th Edition WFB to Age of Sigmar levels of backlash.


I have my own criticisms about this whole thing, but just want to point out that HH got a new black book last September and had a slow release schedule for the past couple of years but even then we still got a bunch of new Dark Angels miniatures, some praetors, a few tanks(the Aquitor Bombard and the Sabre tanks), and so on. So it's been slow but not nonexistent.

As for laughable Forge World prices..... just take a lot at a lot of the newer GW kits and tell me what you see. The new Mega-gargants are $195. Each. For the price of 1 mega-gargant I can get two Deimos Predator tanks. Or if we're talking plastic HH, roughly 4 tactical squads. Lord Kroak is $115. There are primarchs in the same price range. A Great Unclean One is $140. That's a Sicaran. Or a full 10-man Dark Angels Interemptor squad(at $66 per 5 marines).

Let's not kid ourselves that FW and GW pricing are all that different anymore.
   
Made in us
Snord






 Mr. Grey wrote:

As for laughable Forge World prices..... just take a lot at a lot of the newer GW kits and tell me what you see. The new Mega-gargants are $195. Each. For the price of 1 mega-gargant I can get two Deimos Predator tanks. Or if we're talking plastic HH, roughly 4 tactical squads. Lord Kroak is $115. There are primarchs in the same price range. A Great Unclean One is $140. That's a Sicaran. Or a full 10-man Dark Angels Interemptor squad(at $66 per 5 marines).

Let's not kid ourselves that FW and GW pricing are all that different anymore.


I mean, there's a reason I don't buy much from GW anymore and have recently purchased a 3D printer. Ironically, as my purchasing ability has increased with my age, my ability to stomach their ever increasing prices has dropped.

Regardless, I think my point still stands about people supporting the nicheness of the heresy game. People who bought into it during the heyday of the game, when Bligh was still with us, have seen a drop in support, with increasing gaps between releases. A lot of that could be remedied by better communication, but as I speculated at elsewhere in this thread, GW would rather keep players in the dark for reasons.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

TBH as someone that loves 8th and 9th and really started playing 40k (I was a fantasy and MESBG before) with 8th, one of the reasons I want to try HH with this box set is specifically because they have different rules.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't need Warhammer 40k 2.0. If I want to play 9th, I can just play 9th.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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Atlanta, GA

 Galas wrote:
TBH as someone that loves 8th and 9th and really started playing 40k (I was a fantasy and MESBG before) with 8th, one of the reasons I want to try HH with this box set is specifically because they have different rules.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't need Warhammer 40k 2.0. If I want to play 9th, I can just play 9th.


If folks can keep track of various rules when they have armies/miniatures for Age of Sigmar, 40k, Titanicus, Necromunda, and/or Aeronautica, I don't see why 30K suddenly needs to be the same rules system as current 40k. A lot of people play multiple GW games systems and it's never been an issue before.
   
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I meean, it would be nice to have current rules for the stuff FW sells to be able to play 40k with the 40k crowd, but HH itself it's fine with its own system, I think.

Maybe not the one it has right now, but its own.
   
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When 30k was essentially compatible with 40k, it opened up a much wider playerbase of opponents.

   
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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
When 30k was essentially compatible with 40k, it opened up a much wider playerbase of opponents.



Which doesn't make a ton of sense. None of the 30k armies are designed or balanced to play against factions outside of 30k. If you wanted to play against those factions, why not play 40k?
   
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Denison, Iowa

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
When 30k was essentially compatible with 40k, it opened up a much wider playerbase of opponents.



Which doesn't make a ton of sense. None of the 30k armies are designed or balanced to play against factions outside of 30k. If you wanted to play against those factions, why not play 40k?


I know that back in 7th edition there was a game hack to get Squats back into the game using various traits for a 30k Imperial army. Then 8th edition 40k came out and killed that little nugget.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/17 19:46:21


 
   
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HH couldn't cope with a new ruleset edition. Just like Kill Team, the game doesn't get enough support from the devs so its better to keep the core rules more or less static.
   
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St. Louis

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
When 30k was essentially compatible with 40k, it opened up a much wider playerbase of opponents.



Which doesn't make a ton of sense. None of the 30k armies are designed or balanced to play against factions outside of 30k. If you wanted to play against those factions, why not play 40k?

Because all your potential opponents know how to play 30k if they play 40k. With 8th and 9th, you're no longer guaranteed someone knows how the game works.
   
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Cairo, Egypt

 Theophony wrote:
IT should be it's own rules set. 40K is mainly marine on marine already, but in this setting there is very little Xenos with odd rules to worry about. it can be a simpler and cleaner rule set just because there is so little variation in armies. Yes each army has unique troops, but nothing earth shattering that rewrites whole swaths of army builds. GW can make the base game standard and then have 20 Legion books to pump out before version 2.0 (they won't get near all of them done before that happens though). It's a big financial win for them to have two separate rules as they can sell twice as many rulebooks and codex books.


I know Mechanicus and Solar Aux aren't big but they do exist

And are lovely models.

What about the 2 board games, were they any good rules wise?

 
   
 
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