Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

People should probibly be honestly impressed that they are making the effort. Me? I don't know.

I don't hold a grudge, but when you pee in my face and tell me its raining, it is pretty hard not to have some hard feelings over it.

May be the fact that I'm not one of the Kool Kidz here and don't hang out with Joe the Game Designer is the other thing. I already said my piece before on what ticked me off about the KS project.

Change what you want to, the damage is done.

My own personal opinion is that they honestly think that they are going to dictate how people are going to spend and decide on how people are going to jump on the bandwagon because they change a thing or two a few days before deadline and thats ok. That they are going to dictate the terms of the arrangement and decide for you, all the while handwringing and naysaying criticisims and downplaying legitimate issues.

Like I said before, the KS is a train wreck of epic proportions. Genuine greedy and based on past success. NOW you lost the very reason why you wanted the KS project in the first place. We're going back to that whole issue of using it as a sales site, even though these, "Project Managers" want to keep telling themselves that it isn't one.

DO I need a apology for your continued arrogance? No. Just a little bit of getting off of the high horse while your acting like anyone who has issue is making it up or just peeing on your union suit.

I'm not on the fence. The KS project is disingenuous to the point of insulting. The added insults of the other issues are just becoming icing on the cake to the WTF moment that this one is giving me.

HOW many weeks and this little bit is supposed to knock my socks off?

Of course the bandwagon jumpers are going to minimalise my issues, or tell me I'm making them up, though.

Bob might be a little confrontational, but it doesn't change the facts of the issues on deck. You started out the project peeing all over people and bad mouthing them for wanting legitimate rewards for the pledges, while you started out with crap. Evolving is a good thing, but to the other added insulting tone, your going to have to step up and put your money where your mouth is. You already have your "Wierd guys" from the board. and pretty much anyone else who is going to step up and pledge. NOW you are in the lose the confusion mode on just what exactly your trying to fund here.

Are you funding my collecting fetish now, based on your last weeks steller example performance on how NOT to run a KS project, or are you actually going to use the money to make an Malfaux RPG here?

When I started playing, I liked the game. I didn't have much of the issue until it started getting too big for thier britches with the big bag of smartass that developed with the success. Granted you can't do much about that, but thats just how I feel about it.

DO I really need anything for it? NO, BUT- the fact that you have a few people out here that have an issue with some of that said attitude and you hear about it is enough for me.

Will you do anything about it? Who knows, probibly not on the surface, but at least you hear it from someone who had a soft spot for the game, once. And not just one of the syccophants that are along for the ride to say they are one of the kool kidz.

Whilst I still liked Wyrd but had nagging doubts about them before this KS, I rank them with GW now in the "might buy something I really really want once in a blue moon if they release it, but thats about it".

 Breotan wrote:

 recruittons wrote:
Awww, I asked about getting my early backer status reinstated and was shot down. A little disappointing, but perhaps they will change their minds in the future! If not, I'm not mad at it.

Let this be a lesson to you. NEVER quit a kickstarter while it is running. Wait till the day before the end, examine your pledge and the value of what is available, then decide to leave, stay, or up your bid. You only hurt yourself if you do this pledge/cancel/pledge/cancel stuff.

Oh, BTW... FACEBOOK! LIKE! NAO! Both pics. Tweet and retweet it all, too.

DO EET!!

I agree in part....

BUT if nobody had pulled out do you really think the really positive changes in the campaign would have happened, I doubt it

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:


I hate you Forar, I had the cash for a NE LCB, and I couldn't get my mitts on one D: So I settled for Teddy instead.

So, this is something I've been picking up on a lot. Extremely limited, collectible, "1990's hologram-cover Image comics" models seem to make up an inordinate amount of any discussion about Malifaux models. Is the whole company obsessed with this kind of Members Only exclusivity? Do they think it really makes new customers interested in buying their products when the fan community won't shut up about all the great stuff the proles YOU will never be able to own? Is there any reason Wyrd operates this way besides an addiction to smug fanboys?

1) The only reason I couldn't get my mitts on a NE LCB is because I started Malifaux after he was the GenCon Exclusive model. He sold out during his original run (because he's so much beefier and a more dynamic sculpt than the regular LCB). There was some other sale (it may have been a Black Friday Sale last year, but I'm not sure) but they had "found" another palette of NE LCB models, and they went and sold out again. This year, during Wyrd's Birthday sale there were 13 NE LCB that were not sold during the previous year's sale due to people ordering and not buying or something like that. So Wyrd sold them, and it was first come, first serve. I checked it on my phone while stopped at a red light. So I couldn't get one simply for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. There are plenty of "limited edition" models that are truly limited. Miss Demeanor, Miss Pack, the Gremlinette, NE LCB, NE Teddy, the Easter Warchicken and the Egg Thrower (a slop hauler dressed in a pink bunny costume ala A Christmas Story) and the Dead Justice Box. Some of these might be getting reproduced for special sales like the birthday, but for the most part they're all pretty hard to come by, and I do doubt that they would reproduce Dead Justice, NE Teddy, and the two easter specials just for their birthday sale, and not reproduce NE LCB, which would have garnered them a lot more in sales. This year is really only the first year that the "special edition" thing has kind of been an issue. Miss Terious, the Hanging Trees, and Santana are the first various special edition models that are produced in plastic. While the initial startup costs for plastic can be high, as Zwei pointed out a few pages ago, this isn't 2002. Once you get the mold paid off, it's sweet profits from there. So Miss Terious and the Hanging trees could be simply left overs from GenCon, with them producing more as needed (once the drive ends and depending on the level of funding hit). Santana Ortega is even more "rarer" than those because her initial run was kept a bit of a secret. She was the Henchman Exclusive model this summer, and was only offered to those henchman that ran enough events during the summer, or put in enough time at GenCon. I can't remember, but there may have been a post asking if the various henchers were allowed to tell their players about Santana to drum up interest. I believe the answer was no, simply because this was a reward to the henchman, and not his or her play group. Also, Idk if henchmen can get an exclusive model every year, because I've only been a henchman during 1 summer.

Rare, and special edition models are no different that other companies that offer them, and barring the Easter special models, I believe Wyrd only produces special models for GenCon's time period (mid to late summer, and the actual snow). Hannah's sculpt is the first that I've seen outside of some holiday or convention. So it's not a huge deal that there are these models that the average person won't be able to get, because they're never "special" in the way that it won't have a main game alternative. It's the exact same thing with the Dark Vengeance DA Chaplain, or the Crimson Fist 25th Anniversary model. These are special edition models that look cool, that people (for the most part) won't be able to get their hands on without going to eBay (my flgs has 1 of the anniversary model, and one original DV set still), but they're not more powerful than the regular version of their sculpt, their just different.

EDIT: After the latest update, I have to say I'm really surprised. I'm surprised how many people are willing to let a company spit on them (metaphorically), lie to them and insult them, and then still come back when the company discovers it's losing money and starts making nice again. It would be one thing if the company admitted it was wrong or apologized, but that's not what happened. The only regret I sense on the part of Wyrd (besides the regret of the poor schlemiels on the front lines of communication for being stuck with this chicken shart outfit) is regret that they can't tell you where to go and still keep your money.

Would an "Oops, our bad" have really killed them?

First off, we all know that Mack and Justin brush regularly, and their spit is minty fresh . Secondly, many of the people that have been critical on this campaign have wanted the changes because they wanted to see it succeed. I'm sure there are a fair share of people that honestly were like, "Malifaux RPG?! NOT ON MY WATCH?!" and did their best to bad mouth the campaign. Buzzsaw and Cincydooley are probably the most critical people on the campaign (in this thread) and their attitude has changed (not like rolling a 40 on a diplomacy check), but Wyrd must have flipped the Red Joker on their (1) Marketing Campaign spell after failing to cast it turn after turn.

 Grot 6 wrote:
People should probibly be honestly impressed that they are making the effort. Me? I don't know.

I don't hold a grudge, but when you pee in my face and tell me its raining, it is pretty hard not to have some hard feelings over it.

May be the fact that I'm not one of the Kool Kidz here and don't hang out with Joe the Game Designer is the other thing. I already said my piece before on what ticked me off about the KS project.

Change what you want to, the damage is done.

My own personal opinion is that they honestly think that they are going to dictate how people are going to spend and decide on how people are going to jump on the bandwagon because they change a thing or two a few days before deadline and thats ok. That they are going to dictate the terms of the arrangement and decide for you, all the while handwringing and naysaying criticisims and downplaying legitimate issues.

Like I said before, the KS is a train wreck of epic proportions. Genuine greedy and based on past success. NOW you lost the very reason why you wanted the KS project in the first place. We're going back to that whole issue of using it as a sales site, even though these, "Project Managers" want to keep telling themselves that it isn't one.

DO I need a apology for your continued arrogance? No. Just a little bit of getting off of the high horse while your acting like anyone who has issue is making it up or just peeing on your union suit.

I'm not on the fence. The KS project is disingenuous to the point of insulting. The added insults of the other issues are just becoming icing on the cake to the WTF moment that this one is giving me.

HOW many weeks and this little bit is supposed to knock my socks off?

Of course the bandwagon jumpers are going to minimalise my issues, or tell me I'm making them up, though.

Bob might be a little confrontational, but it doesn't change the facts of the issues on deck. You started out the project peeing all over people and bad mouthing them for wanting legitimate rewards for the pledges, while you started out with crap. Evolving is a good thing, but to the other added insulting tone, your going to have to step up and put your money where your mouth is. You already have your "Wierd guys" from the board. and pretty much anyone else who is going to step up and pledge. NOW you are in the lose the confusion mode on just what exactly your trying to fund here.

Are you funding my collecting fetish now, based on your last weeks steller example performance on how NOT to run a KS project, or are you actually going to use the money to make an Malfaux RPG here?

When I started playing, I liked the game. I didn't have much of the issue until it started getting too big for thier britches with the big bag of smartass that developed with the success. Granted you can't do much about that, but thats just how I feel about it.

DO I really need anything for it? NO, BUT- the fact that you have a few people out here that have an issue with some of that said attitude and you hear about it is enough for me.

Will you do anything about it? Who knows, probibly not on the surface, but at least you hear it from someone who had a soft spot for the game, once. And not just one of the syccophants that are along for the ride to say they are one of the kool kidz.

My first instinct after reading your post was to either ignore it completly or try and trivulise it, but it got me thinking....

On some level I agree with alot of what you said, and you do raise some very good points.

Do I think this is going to become one of the highest funded kickstarter projects ever? No I don't.
Do I think this project was poorly run from the beginning? Yes I do.
Do I think that Wyrd's attitude towards this project sucked? Maybe, that's something I'm still debating.
Do I think Wyrd had piss poor communication from the beginning? Very much so.
Do I think the updates since Mack has taken them over help? Yes I do.
Do I think the most recent update changed the tone of the entire project? Extremly.

I think alot of your problems with this KS come from the fanboy nature of the big minature game systems in general, and I think the experiance would have been pretty much the same if any of the other big game companies had run a kickstarter. Yes, there are probably steps that Wyrd could have taken to mitigate that but for whatever reason they weren't done. Any time you deal with something people truely enjoy your going to get a very vocal group that will support them at any cost and loudly. Your also going to get a group of people that for whatever reason is going to do the exact opposite just as loudly. Thats what I think set the mood for this kickstarter... The Fanboy and the Anti-Fanboy, much more then Wyrd themselves.

I'm all for condemning a project or a company when they do something wrong. But if you condemn them for being wrong you also have to give them credit when they try to change. I think thats the important thing to take out of all this. Atleast they are trying, however late it might be.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

Any time you deal with something people truely enjoy your going to get a very vocal group that will support them at any cost and loudly. Your also going to get a group of people that for whatever reason is going to do the exact opposite just as loudly. Thats what I think set the mood for this kickstarter... The Fanboy and the Anti-Fanboy, much more then Wyrd themselves.

I'm all for condemning a project or a company when they do something wrong. But if you condemn them for being wrong you also have to give them credit when they try to change. I think thats the important thing to take out of all this. Atleast they are trying, however late it might be.

I think this group is still where my largest problem sits. Clearly those of us that are consumers of Wyrd's product were able to affect change. While they may not say it directly (and they probably shouldn't) the directional change of the project and the few (very important and meaningful, IMO) posts on this thread by certain folks indicate that they did, in fact, listen to folks like Buzz and myself. My frustration stems simply from the fact that the change would have/could have happened sooner if there weren't so many people defending every move without thought or consequence, and subsequently berating and belittling those of us that were questioning how we were going to spend out dollar.

I guess the thing that's so confusing to me is how starkly contrasted to the EBO Kickstarter this one has been. EBO was run using the 'successful' KS template. Solid Stretch goals. Multiple varied pledge levels. Lots of interaction. To do the Malifaux RPG one in such a different way indicates to me that one of those three steps created a problem for Wyrd. Honestly, I wish they would have simply found a solution to whatever problem that was and then applied it here as opposed to trying to drive around it.

Anyways, I think what they've done has reinstilled some faith in the company for me, and quite frankly they have Mack to thank for that completely (not that my patronage is THAT important, but...you know... just sayin.) I sincerely hope they can use this as a learning tool for the future endeavors and realize that perhaps it's the fans that are sometimes critical that can provide the most helpful feedback to you.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

Any time you deal with something people truely enjoy your going to get a very vocal group that will support them at any cost and loudly. Your also going to get a group of people that for whatever reason is going to do the exact opposite just as loudly. Thats what I think set the mood for this kickstarter... The Fanboy and the Anti-Fanboy, much more then Wyrd themselves.

I'm all for condemning a project or a company when they do something wrong. But if you condemn them for being wrong you also have to give them credit when they try to change. I think thats the important thing to take out of all this. Atleast they are trying, however late it might be.

I think this group is still where my largest problem sits. Clearly those of us that are consumers of Wyrd's product were able to affect change. While they may not say it directly (and they probably shouldn't) the directional change of the project and the few (very important and meaningful, IMO) posts on this thread by certain folks indicate that they did, in fact, listen to folks like Buzz and myself. My frustration stems simply from the fact that the change would have/could have happened sooner if there weren't so many people defending every move without thought or consequence, and subsequently berating and belittling those of us that were questioning how we were going to spend out dollar.

I have a feeling I'm included in that last bit haha >_<

There were alot of very good points brought up over the course of this thread and alot of the change we've seen can probably be related pretty closely to it. But I also think the weeks of relativly no growth the the project had something to do with it as well.

At the same time though EBO was essentially a product removed. While it does share some art and names with the skirmish game its a vastly different product to the point where no one was pre invested in it.

I think the most important change they've made to the project is by giveing it a face. Early on they came across as a faceless company trying for a money grab. Now they come across as Mack, the exciting RPG creator trying to make a better product.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

Any time you deal with something people truely enjoy your going to get a very vocal group that will support them at any cost and loudly. Your also going to get a group of people that for whatever reason is going to do the exact opposite just as loudly. Thats what I think set the mood for this kickstarter... The Fanboy and the Anti-Fanboy, much more then Wyrd themselves.

I'm all for condemning a project or a company when they do something wrong. But if you condemn them for being wrong you also have to give them credit when they try to change. I think thats the important thing to take out of all this. Atleast they are trying, however late it might be.

I think this group is still where my largest problem sits. Clearly those of us that are consumers of Wyrd's product were able to affect change. While they may not say it directly (and they probably shouldn't) the directional change of the project and the few (very important and meaningful, IMO) posts on this thread by certain folks indicate that they did, in fact, listen to folks like Buzz and myself. My frustration stems simply from the fact that the change would have/could have happened sooner if there weren't so many people defending every move without thought or consequence, and subsequently berating and belittling those of us that were questioning how we were going to spend out dollar.

I have a feeling I'm included in that last bit haha >_<

I think alot of us in this thread would fall into one catagoery or another, but the suprising lack of red in this thread shows that while we may have disagreed we atleast were able to keep it semi-civil which is more then I can say for some other threads and comment sections about this project.

Btw, giving the latest Breachside Chats a listen, and Mack is going in depth with how damage and crits work. Interesting. One of the "serious crits?" is internal bleeding, he takes a moderate crit if he doesn't pass his action, 18 is addle-pated, highest one is obliterated that destroys that body part (not insta-death).

It sounds interesting.

I'd also like to point out that, as it stands, the $125 tiers have the potential to become absolutely crazy value (yes, I used the V-word).

Looking at the "Dining Room"/Miniature tier (which is more popular than the double book edition by ~100 backers) you get:

The books
3 Multi-Pose Minis
The plastic special edition Fate Deck
Special Edition Hannah sculpt (actual 'rarity' to be determined)

Eh? Eh.

At 200k you get the Fate Master Screen and character sheets. Ehhhhh...

At 205k the pdfs come online. The two are quite reasonable, especially once we (hopefully) cement the top tier as getting Santana and the middle tiers start approaching the possibility over the weekend.

215k: up to 4 multi-pose minis.

Depending on how enthusiastic the backers and others are, somewhere in these remaining days it is feasible Santana will become available for the middle and even lower tiers. That's spicy as all get out.

Now, unless that last 48 hour surge is truly signficant, I'm doubtful of getting to 250k (much as I'd like the tree), but for a drive running light on 'swag' there is at least the potential for the bottom and middle tiers to be pretty solid deals. I feel that the top tier could use a little something to further distinguish it (assuming Santana ends up in lower tiers by the campaign's end), but we're a lot closer to a much higher value from the pledge points than we were a few days ago.

And I concur with most of the last few pages; while the first five minutes of the 'film' were great, the remaining parts of Act 1 and Act 2 left much to be desired. As we approach the climax of Act 3, sincere effort is being made to get things wrapped up well. If they do another KS for a project, I hope they take the lessons learned here (and from EBO) to heart, but for now, even as a voice giving critique (and not just purely critical), I feel this is a step in the right direction, and has some potential to make for a worthwhile backing.

But hey, if it's not your thing, that's cool too. Only so many hours in the day and dollars in the bank.

I honestly didn't mean a single person in this thread. I think the biggest difference between here and the actual KS comments thread is that everyone here has had really civil dialogue that has recognized some of the faults in the campaign. While perhaps my criticism may have come off as overly harsh sometimes (I've tried not to be, BTW), at least everyone here has seen it for what it is: criticism out of want of better, not criticism for the sake of being mean.

For those of you that have read the KS comments board, it's quite obvious that there are a fair few that are completely blind in their following of this KS; there are a few folks that are still 'hoping' to hit $300K.

I am contemplating about upping my pledge back up to the gaming room. I'm sitting at the dining room gamer atm, and I get paid the day before the drive ends (with all bills being spoken for ). The bump up 100 dollars gives me a second set of the books for 60 bucks (rough estimate of retail cost), an 11.50 Fate Deck (based on the price of the other 2 plastic fate decks), which gives me a relative value of 71.50. I'd probably get a Santana at this point, which could help make my money back if I wanted to via the ebays. Idk, it's sitting on my mind.

 Alfndrate wrote:
I am contemplating about upping my pledge back up to the gaming room. I'm sitting at the dining room gamer atm, and I get paid the day before the drive ends (with all bills being spoken for ). The bump up 100 dollars gives me a second set of the books for 60 bucks (rough estimate of retail cost), an 11.50 Fate Deck (based on the price of the other 2 plastic fate decks), which gives me a relative value of 71.50. I'd probably get a Santana at this point, which could help make my money back if I wanted to via the ebays. Idk, it's sitting on my mind.

But you'd still be stuck with that doll

God, I hate that doll. Hahahahaha.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I am contemplating about upping my pledge back up to the gaming room. I'm sitting at the dining room gamer atm, and I get paid the day before the drive ends (with all bills being spoken for ). The bump up 100 dollars gives me a second set of the books for 60 bucks (rough estimate of retail cost), an 11.50 Fate Deck (based on the price of the other 2 plastic fate decks), which gives me a relative value of 71.50. I'd probably get a Santana at this point, which could help make my money back if I wanted to via the ebays. Idk, it's sitting on my mind.

But you'd still be stuck with that doll

God, I hate that doll. Hahahahaha.

I could sell the doll to Magikal Memories Also I'm still waiting on my fething plushie from EBO!

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I am contemplating about upping my pledge back up to the gaming room. I'm sitting at the dining room gamer atm, and I get paid the day before the drive ends (with all bills being spoken for ). The bump up 100 dollars gives me a second set of the books for 60 bucks (rough estimate of retail cost), an 11.50 Fate Deck (based on the price of the other 2 plastic fate decks), which gives me a relative value of 71.50. I'd probably get a Santana at this point, which could help make my money back if I wanted to via the ebays. Idk, it's sitting on my mind.

But you'd still be stuck with that doll

God, I hate that doll. Hahahahaha.

I could sell the doll to Magikal Memories Also I'm still waiting on my fething plushie from EBO!

Did they ever say who it would be? I sorta hope it's Evil Baby Edward Teech. Or maybe Evil Baby Rasputin.

Amg! baby rasputin would be awesome

And no, they haven't announced it... I made a post in the KS thread on their board, and will probably keep it once a week lol.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Hmmm... Lalochezia, were you one of the Wyrd guys at GAMA last year? You look familiar.

Anyway, add a PDF only option and ill raise my pledge up from a buck... Or an option to get just the minis.

Or both.

No, never been sadly.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Amg! baby rasputin would be awesome

And no, they haven't announced it... I made a post in the KS thread on their board, and will probably keep it once a week lol.

Maybe we can identify who it should NOT be:

Hitler
Himmler
Kim Jong iL
Saddam
Pol Pot

Honestly, I think those are the main five wouldn't want. All are way too recent and have too much blood on their hands.

Baby Castro I really don't think I'd have a problem with though...

As long as he comes with the cigar

 Alfndrate wrote:
As long as he comes with the cigar

Agreed. I also wouldn't be opposed to a tiny plush AK47 that velcroed to his hand....

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
As long as he comes with the cigar

Agreed. I also wouldn't be opposed to a tiny plush AK47 that velcroed to his hand....

Lalochezia, can you pass this along? At least the cigar idea.

But would that qualify as a "baby-smokes-alot" kind of thing ala Family Guy?

My simple answer to why I pledged after some of the stuff we saw earlier in the campaign is Mack caught the biscuit(s). He won. I made a gentleman's wager, and the man brought his A-game.

 Breotan wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
EDIT: After the latest update, I have to say I'm really surprised. I'm surprised how many people are willing to let a company spit on them (metaphorically), lie to them and insult them, and then still come back when the company discovers it's losing money and starts making nice again.

You're asking that on a forum where the majority of people buy stuff from Games Workshop? At least Wyrd has started making nice again, something that we never really see from GW.

Good point. GW has just become a nonentity to me recently so I didn't even think about it. I guess you're implying that Wyrd is aiming just shy of that benchmark?

I fought pretty hard for Edward Teach... sadly... I can't remember if I won or not. I'll have to wait till they get here to find out!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
EDIT: After the latest update, I have to say I'm really surprised. I'm surprised how many people are willing to let a company spit on them (metaphorically), lie to them and insult them, and then still come back when the company discovers it's losing money and starts making nice again.

You're asking that on a forum where the majority of people buy stuff from Games Workshop? At least Wyrd has started making nice again, something that we never really see from GW.

Good point. GW has just become a nonentity to me recently so I didn't even think about it.

While I don't think this is the forum to discuss that, I still maintain it's a bit....I want to use unfair, but it doesn't feel right...I think it's a bit off to compare GW to any of these other companies because their organizational structure is so very different. Being a public company they're beholden to different groups of people, etc, plus their customer service, while different, is just as good, if not better, than the smaller companies due to having dedicated support staff to handle it. As a result for me, my expectations change accordingly.

But, like I said, I'm glad to see the changes that were made to this campaign. Realistically, I think it's going to be set up to hit around $205-$210K, which will provide some solid stretches and will make it so there is less of a limp to the finish line, with I think is a great thing for morale.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price.

I must be confused, where did the model prices go up? Yes Jakob Lynch's box is on the high end (possibly one of the most expensive boxes), but all the new plastics are decently priced. The metal rats seem to be gakky in price, but everything else is right around where the metal prices were.

The new 3 dude packs are mostly more expensive than their metal ones, but I looked at the sprues, and they're way more detailed minis, so my perception of "too expensive" quickly became "pretty justifiably expensive," as long as you care about how your minis look.

Having just received a nice post Christmas gift of Dark Debts and his whole crew, I'm more inclined to mostly agree now that I have some more in hand. Graves and Tanner are still somewhat pricey (11 for a single figure), but the extra bits in the dark debts set in particular are quite nice. The low detail and weakness/snapping of my hanging tree and depleted isn't carried over. Also the scale fits better (seriously, I get they are drained, but two of those depleted are TINY), so it seems I managed the two worst sets to preview their plastics with. 16 for 2 beckoners is more or less in line with their previous releases like the nurses (14 for 2). Overall, about a 10% price increase with the new material, somewhat justified by the extra bits and new packaging. Also, less cussing, pinning, and green stuff involved in assembly.

But Nekima and the spawn mother are still too expensive.

In regards to the KS, I'm glad they are listening to feedback, even if a bit late. I've been very critical because I dont think its up to their normal standards, and I want/expect better of them. I'm really not sure why they weren't trying to push their prestige rewards more (even at this stage). If kingdom death wasnt also bleeding me this month, I totally would have thrown in for the gen con canon game (my best friend is however, so I at least get to hear about it after the fact). This was the kind of thing that needed to be on the pledge level, just like other campaigns have painted figs, greens, original concept art, etc. That's the kind of stuff that's not available at retail that lots are willing to pay a premium for.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price.

I must be confused, where did the model prices go up? Yes Jakob Lynch's box is on the high end (possibly one of the most expensive boxes), but all the new plastics are decently priced. The metal rats seem to be gakky in price, but everything else is right around where the metal prices were.

The new 3 dude packs are mostly more expensive than their metal ones, but I looked at the sprues, and they're way more detailed minis, so my perception of "too expensive" quickly became "pretty justifiably expensive," as long as you care about how your minis look.

Having just received a nice post Christmas gift of Dark Debts and his whole crew, I'm more inclined to mostly agree now that I have some more in hand. Graves and Tanner are still somewhat pricey (11 for a single figure), but the extra bits in the dark debts set in particular are quite nice. The low detail and weakness/snapping of my hanging tree and depleted isn't carried over. Also the scale fits better (seriously, I get they are drained, but two of those depleted are TINY), so it seems I managed the two worst sets to preview their plastics with. 16 for 2 beckoners is more or less in line with their previous releases like the nurses (14 for 2). Overall, about a 10% price increase with the new material, somewhat justified by the extra bits and new packaging. Also, less cussing, pinning, and green stuff involved in assembly.

But Nekima and the spawn mother are still too expensive.

In regards to the KS, I'm glad they are listening to feedback, even if a bit late. I've been very critical because I dont think its up to their normal standards, and I want/expect better of them. I'm really not sure why they weren't trying to push their prestige rewards more (even at this stage). If kingdom death wasnt also bleeding me this month, I totally would have thrown in for the gen con canon game (my best friend is however, so I at least get to hear about it after the fact). This was the kind of thing that needed to be on the pledge level, just like other campaigns have painted figs, greens, original concept art, etc. That's the kind of stuff that's not available at retail that lots are willing to pay a premium for.

Tannen is tiny, but I like how he comes with some bits (I stuck him with the pocket knife hand), but Graves I feel is worth his 11 dollar price tag. He's a big enough model, he's on a 40mm base, and he's got a couple of arm options. I've been adding heft to my Neverborn plastics (and all of them really) with the Orphanage base inserts, so my Mr. Graves is standing next to a fire place

And Nekima is only expensive because she's too expensive for her points NO ONE wants to drop 35 dollars on a solid metal model only to spend 13 points on her in game when her rules are lacking I've never seen the spawn mother on the table, so I might be inclined to agree with you

I think Nekima is perhaps the best model in the range. I think she's simply fantastic. That alone was enough for me to drop the $$ on her.

 cincydooley wrote:
I think Nekima is perhaps the best model in the range. I think she's simply fantastic. That alone was enough for me to drop the $$ on her.

I don't own her, I'm probably going to wait until she gets her rules errata'd and then dive whole hog into a Lilith Nephilim list.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I think Nekima is perhaps the best model in the range. I think she's simply fantastic. That alone was enough for me to drop the $$ on her.

I don't own her, I'm probably going to wait until she gets her rules errata'd and then dive whole hog into a Lilith Nephilim list.

Haha, I did that on a whim right before GenCon. Nekima, Tuco, Lilith, a bunch of nephalim. Interesting, I believe some of the dark debts characters are nephalim! I think Graves is.