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Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 frozenwastes wrote:
Spoiler:
Azrael13 made a completely valid point that from a customer's perspective, the difference between Bolt Action figures and GW's figures in terms of price is large. For some reason, that fact has to be nullified by some. They have a need for the comparison to be made invalid.

What this has to do with GW's financials is that part of Rountree's approach is to be more price conscious. They have increased sales volume and one of the things that's different about the current GW approach is that you actually can get savings in both Start Collecting boxes as well as in stand alone games like Gangs of Commorragh or whatever.

GW has also embraced using content creators like youtubers to preview their product. For example, they sent the relatively new channel WargamerOnline some product like Dark Imperium and the easy to build Reivers. And the aggressor kits and multipart reivers. Guess who else sent them review product? Warlord/Osprey.

I don't know why some people need GW to be supah speshul and have no competition when they clearly do. Does Big Waaagh take Azrael's price comparison as some personal slight of having paid more for no good reason? I have no idea.

This year I have bought GW products but have not bought Warlord products. Despite the price difference. I feel no need, however, to totally dismiss reality and claim there is no competition there when there clearly is (both are trying to promote their product to the exact same audience).

I actually also see GW's re-entry into the convention circuit and their working with bloggers, youtubers and other content creators as an acknowledgement that they are indeed in competition with someone like Warlord. If they weren't, then they certainly would not be going into the same places and trying to sell their product to the same people Warlord is.

I actually think GW is going to compete well in the larger gaming sphere that they are re-engaging. Price is not the only consideration people make when selecting a wargame. As well, the rules approach of both AoS and 8th edition 40k supports lower model count games pretty well, so there isn't this massive barrier in place before you get to the "real" game. If you watch a 1000 point or 50 power level battle report on youtube, it's obvious that they are having the full game experience.

I hope GW is thinking more in terms of total customer experience going forward. Not just the experience of buying their product, but the experience of every part of the actual use of the product. They seem to be. On the AoS side of things this Skirmish into Path to Glory into larger games approach seems to indicate they want people to enjoy every aspect of Collect-Build-Paint-Play as early as possible.


Nothing I can disagree with there FW, except to be totally precise, it wasn't me who raised the issue of price GW vs Warlord, I stepped in when the comparison of the two was dismissed because reasons.

Hence when I was accused of "raging" because I somehow had some sort of issue with GW pricing that I had taken personally it was completely ridiculous, when the reality is I'm largely insulated from GW pricing due to 2nd hand, third party and non GW purchases, and I've been perfectly content with the prices that I've paid for new GW product, such as it is, because I accept they're priced as they are, and while I might shake my head and scoff at some of the more extreme cases, I just don't buy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 15:42:32


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

Thanks for the correction. My apologies for the misattribution.

I've been buying some new stuff, but used off eBay has been increasingly taking up my hobby dollars when it comes to GW stuff.


Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

It's a bit unfair to blame Azreal13 when it was myself who raised the comparison between Warlord and GW.

I merely wondered where GW was making the profits from, when you consider that things like GW PVA glue is more expensive and less product than another high street chain selling PVA glue.

But it's probably best if the conversation heads for another path IMO. We all know where we stand on this particular issue of GW Vs. Warlord and there is no point repeating it.

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

It's ok, I don't feel blamed, I simply felt that in the context of the whole back and forth, it was pertinent to point out that while I'd been accused of all sorts of stuff re: GW pricing, it was an issue I'd never raised in the first place!

WRT where their profit comes from, for personal interest I'd dearly love to see a breakdown of what sells and where. We can estimate their gross margin by simply comparing their revenue to their declared cost of sales, but that only gives us an average, and things like paint I'm fairly sure operate on a much thinner margin than their models, and the hobby gear, as mentioned, sells at vastly inflated markups.

One thing's for sure, licensing has been a money machine for them in recent years, and that's almost free money.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Major




London

 BigWaaagh wrote:
 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
What's this gotta do with GW financials?


Go back a page or so and you'll see, but it has admittedly drifted, albeit from an orignally On-Topic position.


These always, ALWAYS, degenerate into a Punch and Judy show.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




RoninXiC wrote:Gaming Universe: Does WW2 really need more people working on it? They're also publishing "all" the theatres to they ARE working on it.
We got the right flag next to our usernames to start work on the next expansion of that "universe".
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I do think that with GW's new turnaround, the other companies will be having a harder time and I do think that the turnaround is a result of positive business practices.

A few years ago, I semi-privately made a prediction that unless GW does a major overhaul, rethink and a completely new approach, they're doomed to go down the toilet. I think, broadly thinking, a new approach is precisely what they've done.

So, yay for GW but for the other companies, many whom I've bought lots and lots of product for in the 4 years since I've given up GW, are probably in for a real hard time going forward. - For example, when GW relaunch BFG, I imagine Hawk Wargames are properly up a creek without a paddle and I'm a big fan of Hawk Wargames.

Fortunately, for me at least, the main thing I've been investing, collecting, painting and even gaming with right now is Knight Models Batman and DC Universe games which is something that GW can never really echo. Even if I were to never find someone to play the game with again, I'd be fine with that. Because it's the GODDAMN BATMAN.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

So, yay for GW but for the other companies, many whom I've bought lots and lots of product for in the 4 years since I've given up GW, are probably in for a real hard time going forward. - For example, when GW relaunch BFG, I imagine Hawk Wargames are properly up a creek without a paddle and I'm a big fan of Hawk Wargames.


I don't see what evidence there is to support this at all. None of GW's minor games seem to have much impact. Generally speaking, they're simply re-releases with the same rules which were great in 1991.

Bloodbowl is a good game but Dreadball is still produced with new models. Somehow I don't think Wryd is worried about Mordheim considering Malifaux has an incredible ruleset, same with dropzone commander.

While decent releases, GW's specialist games are almost entirely based on nostalgia.

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

Yeah the specialist stuff is dated and rarely that well supported. They could change that though.

In general, I'd assume that a relaunch of BFG may stop people picking up one of the Hawk games, but it's going to cause very few people to drop them entirely.

Beyond the fact they are space ships, I don't think there's that much in common. Hawk have the Halo game, which might have a bigger market than BFG, and there's the Dropfleet range which seems to have pretty good mechanics and the different tiers of linked games (space ships fighting, ground landings, ground combat).

Same for Star Wars Armada - it's kinda like BFG, but I assume a much better game* with a better franchise.


Same for the new games - I really enjoyed Lost Patrol, but I'm not sure how replayable it'll be without house ruling new stuff, and whilst it's a great quick game, it's not going to cause me to give up any of the other skirmish games I've got.


*BFG was on the way out when I got into the hobby, I don't think I've ever seen a game of it or even the mini's, and I don't know more than a couple of people who still have any of it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/28 08:16:37


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Spartan have the Halo game, not Hawk. And, broadly speaking, Halo fleet battles as far as I can see has been Dead on Arrival.

From what I've seen locally, Blood Bowl has completely obliterated Dreadball, same with Shadow War and Deadzone.

Don't get me wrong, Fantasy Flight Games will still stand and thrive (although I'm not so sure about their new Rune Wars line, I might have to wait and see on that) but X-Wing doesn't have any direct GW equivalents and, of course, being Star Wars helps a great deal.

Mordheim, I dunno. Frostgrave is pretty popular locally rather than Malifaux. If Mordheim does get rereleased, that would be a good test case.

The main ones though, so far, are certainly Shadow War, Blood Bowl and, I would imagine BFG.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 Compel wrote:


Don't get me wrong, Fantasy Flight Games will still stand and thrive (although I'm not so sure about their new Rune Wars line, I might have to wait and see on that) but X-Wing doesn't have any direct GW equivalents and, of course, being Star Wars helps a great deal.


GW (Well, Forge World) did make and sell a similar game that pre-dated X-wing, Aeronautica Imperialis. It was quite good, and used FW's already-made Epic-Scale flyers on special bases. never really took off, though, which was a shame.

I don;t know if anyone at FFG played it, but I always felt there was more similarity between AI and X-wing than there was between Wings of War and X-wing, which is the usual comparison.

On Hawk - I think they'll be fine. Dropzone's still their core product and I don;t see that really under threat from GW's new activity, DZC has a scale niche almost to itself for the time being.. unless GW decided to go for a full restart of Epic.but even with the Titan game coming, they seem very keen to pour cold water on any rumoured return of Epic.



   
Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

 Compel wrote:
Spartan have the Halo game, not Hawk.


Good point!

From what I've seen locally, Blood Bowl has completely obliterated Dreadball, same with Shadow War and Deadzone.

I haven't seen much of either here, to be fair. Will Blood Bowl / Shadow War continue to dominate once the initial wave of support tails off?
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Locally at least, Blood Bowl almost certainly.

Shadow War, I imagine that GW will regularly release alternate versions of it as time goes on.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Blood Bowl seems to be maintaining it's presence. And I suspect would sell even better if they could shoehorn at least the plastic teams into the stores. But, space is of course at a premium, and I won't for a second pretend I know better than GW.

We've also got Adeptus Titanicus coming out at some point (end of the year? Next year? Who knows!), and if that's delayed by a switch to plastics following Blood Bowl's success, that could be another decent seller.

And if that sells well, we might see fully fledged Epic make a return (ideally with the Space Marine rules set, which I for one hold in extremely high esteem)

   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Compel wrote:So, yay for GW but for the other companies, many whom I've bought lots and lots of product for in the 4 years since I've given up GW, are probably in for a real hard time going forward. - For example, when GW relaunch BFG, I imagine Hawk Wargames are properly up a creek without a paddle and I'm a big fan of Hawk Wargames.
I don't think it'll be that bad. If somebody bought BFG for the models (or for it being a GW game) then they probably were not that interested in whatever Hawk Wargames were offering anyways. And for the people who like what Hawk Wargames are selling a return of BFG might lead to a complete switch back (unlikely), playing both (GW siphoning of some attention/money), or them being really wary of GW prices and rules/writing quality (GW loses out on that one).

GW is not some wargaming vacuum cleaner that just sucks up everything. They have stumbled quite a few times and that gave other companies a way to grab some of their old customers and convince them of their own games with better rules, cheaper minis, and whatever else. GW needs to do better than just to reappear with a new game, they have to actually compete with those companies. People like the new games and might not trust GW to not do the stupid things they did the first time around and I would say that's rather a point against GW and not for them.
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

 Compel wrote:
Spartan have the Halo game, not Hawk. And, broadly speaking, Halo fleet battles as far as I can see has been Dead on Arrival.

From what I've seen locally, Blood Bowl has completely obliterated Dreadball, same with Shadow War and Deadzone.

Don't get me wrong, Fantasy Flight Games will still stand and thrive (although I'm not so sure about their new Rune Wars line, I might have to wait and see on that) but X-Wing doesn't have any direct GW equivalents and, of course, being Star Wars helps a great deal.

Mordheim, I dunno. Frostgrave is pretty popular locally rather than Malifaux. If Mordheim does get rereleased, that would be a good test case.

The main ones though, so far, are certainly Shadow War, Blood Bowl and, I would imagine BFG.


Got an email the other day from Warlord about their 10th anniversary celebrations.

So some of GW's competitors are in it for the long haul, and as you say, FFG won't be going anywhere any time soon.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mario wrote:
Compel wrote:So, yay for GW but for the other companies, many whom I've bought lots and lots of product for in the 4 years since I've given up GW, are probably in for a real hard time going forward. - For example, when GW relaunch BFG, I imagine Hawk Wargames are properly up a creek without a paddle and I'm a big fan of Hawk Wargames.
I don't think it'll be that bad. If somebody bought BFG for the models (or for it being a GW game) then they probably were not that interested in whatever Hawk Wargames were offering anyways. And for the people who like what Hawk Wargames are selling a return of BFG might lead to a complete switch back (unlikely), playing both (GW siphoning of some attention/money), or them being really wary of GW prices and rules/writing quality (GW loses out on that one).

GW is not some wargaming vacuum cleaner that just sucks up everything. They have stumbled quite a few times and that gave other companies a way to grab some of their old customers and convince them of their own games with better rules, cheaper minis, and whatever else. GW needs to do better than just to reappear with a new game, they have to actually compete with those companies. People like the new games and might not trust GW to not do the stupid things they did the first time around and I would say that's rather a point against GW and not for them.


Good point.

There seems to be this idea that because GW have started doing what 99.9% of other companies have been doing for decades i.e listening to customers, interacting with the community, etc etc

then other people will drop everything, rush back to GW, and all will be forgiven for the last 10 years.

GW are doing well right now, and good luck to them, but it only takes another Kirby like figure to take the wheel and everything could go backwards again.

It's also not the 1990s again, with the GW behemoth brushing the opposition aside.

The world has changed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/29 10:13:34


"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Mario wrote:
Compel wrote:So, yay for GW but for the other companies, many whom I've bought lots and lots of product for in the 4 years since I've given up GW, are probably in for a real hard time going forward. - For example, when GW relaunch BFG, I imagine Hawk Wargames are properly up a creek without a paddle and I'm a big fan of Hawk Wargames.
I don't think it'll be that bad. If somebody bought BFG for the models (or for it being a GW game) then they probably were not that interested in whatever Hawk Wargames were offering anyways. And for the people who like what Hawk Wargames are selling a return of BFG might lead to a complete switch back (unlikely), playing both (GW siphoning of some attention/money), or them being really wary of GW prices and rules/writing quality (GW loses out on that one).

GW is not some wargaming vacuum cleaner that just sucks up everything. They have stumbled quite a few times and that gave other companies a way to grab some of their old customers and convince them of their own games with better rules, cheaper minis, and whatever else. GW needs to do better than just to reappear with a new game, they have to actually compete with those companies. People like the new games and might not trust GW to not do the stupid things they did the first time around and I would say that's rather a point against GW and not for them.


That other companies have helped fill the Specialist Games void isn't necessarily a bad thing for GW, depending on how you look at it.

At face value, they're re-entering a market which is already well served by both Dropfleet and Armada. Now personally I've not played either, but other than the start up cost of Armada, I've not exactly heard a bad word about either.

So GW have their work cut out for them.

But....those two games also show GW what the market appetite and preference is. Used wisely that can be bloody useful market research, whether they ape them, or attempt to slot their game into an area that isn't seen to be served. Or a curious mix of both. So there is opportunity there.

Plus, 40k remains 40k, a unique setting with its own design ethos. So there's appeal there.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
There seems to be this idea that because GW have started doing what 99.9% of other companies have been doing for decades i.e listening to customers, interacting with the community, etc etc then other people will drop everything, rush back to GW, and all will be forgiven for the last 10 years.


Actually, it's the other way around. Warmahordes, Flames, etc. have taken a page from GW and raised prices to GW levels (or more!), forced retail price floor and internet sale restriction agreements, and so on. Model for model, Warmahordes is actually *more* expensive than GW! Warmahordes faction internal balance is arguably *more* broken than GW.

They all suck.

   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

If anyone is a returning customer to GW, I would recommend going onto their warhammer tv facebook page and sending them a direct message outlining why you have returned and possibly why you stopped buying the first place. You can open up the message saying how you read in their financial report that their CEO is interested in getting back lapsed customers and you figured they may want to hear from people who are returning. If you keep it respectful and short/to the point, I think they'll pass it along. I think they'll be doubly likely to pass it along if Warhammer TV is one of the reasons you returned as a customer.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
There seems to be this idea that because GW have started doing what 99.9% of other companies have been doing for decades i.e listening to customers, interacting with the community, etc etc then other people will drop everything, rush back to GW, and all will be forgiven for the last 10 years.


Actually, it's the other way around. Warmahordes, Flames, etc. have taken a page from GW and raised prices to GW levels (or more!), forced retail price floor and internet sale restriction agreements, and so on. Model for model, Warmahordes is actually *more* expensive than GW! Warmahordes faction internal balance is arguably *more* broken than GW.

They all suck.


Out of all those games you list, Flames is the only one I play, and luckily, you get round BF's prices due to the high number of other companies making WW2 stuff e.g Plastic Soldier Company. As for your other point, I don't know much about that, but if that's the case, and I have no reason to doubt you, then it's a shame.

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

But....those two games also show GW what the market appetite and preference is. Used wisely that can be bloody useful market research, whether they ape them, or attempt to slot their game into an area that isn't seen to be served. Or a curious mix of both. So there is opportunity there.
I don't think GW going for some even smaller niche could work. They, as a company, really need to use economies of scale to address a wider audience. At their size spending time and money only to end up with a profit of 500000€ (or something similar) is just not worth it while it could mean for a smaller company that they survive another year and can also re-invest some of that money in new products
Plus, 40k remains 40k, a unique setting with its own design ethos. So there's appeal there.
40k is unique but people have left them for a reason. If the reason is "because GW abandoned Specialist Games" then GW should have an easy time by just releasing their old games (or course with refinements). But if even 40k's uniqueness wasn't enough to keep players who loved that and they left for other games then GW won't have it that easy. If somebody left 40k because it became too big (knights, flyers, too many miniatures for a skirmish ruleset) the a new edition might not be enough even if they pack in some skirmish rules.

I like the GW aesthetic (maybe not most of the miniatures' exaggerated proportions) and the new Marines (Primaris? writing it feels new and odd) look like they would be really fun to paint (although I detest the little rim on the kneepads), maybe even play the new edition (although I am wary of GW's rule writing competence and how many miniatures I would need) but the cost is still too high (they jumped my comfort level too long ago) for me to just say "Sure,I'll give it a try". As much as I like the aesthetic I'll probably end up painting a few things for friends but not start a new GW based project in the near future (it's just not there yet).

It's good they are doing well, maybe the'll stay alive a few more years , until whatever they release fits my needs better but a long line of business decision made their product "not that interesting" for me. I paint so slow that I can wait it out and see what happens. Others (who like the aesthetics, paint armies and play more) have it harder to weight those arguments against each other (and they tend to buy in with much bigger piles of money than I would).
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

I have to admit I've become hugely impressed with GW recently. If I didn't have another nurgling on the way I'd probably have bought back in.

Went into a GW yesterday as I'd heard a rumour about free Primaris Marines, and got a pretty good overview (no freebie). The 3 starter box thing is genius though, with the box-as-scenery, different coloured plastics and the tiers of entry from collector (big box, full fluff book, lots of figures), normal (decent sized box, cut down rules & fluff, about half the number of figs), to complete beginner (tiny box, quick rules, tutorial scenarios).

I couldn't figure out where I'd get the rules for any of the non-starter units yet without buying the collector box, but the store manager was pretty confident that data cards would come out very soon.

So they really seem to be getting more right than wrong at the moment.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







I have state for many years until that fool Kirby is completely out of the picture that GW will not go anywhere. I have also stated that they will license their IP's out, making a transition to the video/digital games. These things have come to pass and GW has gone in a positive manner. But I don't I'll go back to playing this game anytime soon. I've gotten more involved in the video gaming industry where the real money is as well as the board gaming industry, where it is far less in losing your IP's than video games.

I've been in the entertainment industry for over 40+ years so all of this is nothing new to me. Good luck GW in your future but I'm not going to invest into your corporation in any manner. You have to an opportunity to go main stream but instead you went dividend heavy with little R&D to its line of products. You are only a niche company and will continue to do so while the hobby in general is on the decline, (sorry guys the truth is that hard copy games and digital are multi billion dollar industries and an the younger audiences do not think that wargaming is not cool.) and that is wholly your fault since you are the biggest fish in a small pond. You are more or less too late for the party and did not nurture the growth of miniature gaming.

I'll make my money and take my money else ware.


Adam's Motto: Paint, Create, Play, but above all, have fun. -and for something silly below-

"We are the Ultramodrines, And We Shall Fear No Trolls. bear this USR with pride".

Also, how does one apply to be a member of the Ultramodrines? Are harsh trials involved, ones that would test my faith as a wargamer and resolve as a geek?

You must recite every rule of Dakka Dakka. BACKWARDS.
 
   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel




For me as a gamer first and foremost.
GW plc still deliver no where near the quality of rules, that I expect from a games company.

They make nice minatures,(if expensive in comparison to other games systems.)

And while Games Workshop plc, see themselves as a 'minatures company' I can not see that changing.

Eventually GW plc might realize that great rules add value to the minatures. Poor /rushed rules detract from minature sales.

6 editions of a 40k battle game to arrive at rule set, that still fails to address the core issues highlighted by A.C . nearly 20 years ago.
Every other game company I can think of has the game play and rules sorted by 3 editions of the rules.

I am sure minature collectors will keep GW plc in business though.
   
Made in us
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer




Pleasant Hill CA 94523

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

I have state for many years until that fool Kirby is completely out of the picture that GW will not go anywhere. I have also stated that they will license their IP's out, making a transition to the video/digital games. These things have come to pass and GW has gone in a positive manner. But I don't I'll go back to playing this game anytime soon. I've gotten more involved in the video gaming industry where the real money is as well as the board gaming industry, where it is far less in losing your IP's than video games.

I've been in the entertainment industry for over 40+ years so all of this is nothing new to me. Good luck GW in your future but I'm not going to invest into your corporation in any manner. You have to an opportunity to go main stream but instead you went dividend heavy with little R&D to its line of products. You are only a niche company and will continue to do so while the hobby in general is on the decline, (sorry guys the truth is that hard copy games and digital are multi billion dollar industries and an the younger audiences do not think that wargaming is not cool.) and that is wholly your fault since you are the biggest fish in a small pond. You are more or less too late for the party and did not nurture the growth of miniature gaming.

I'll make my money and take my money else ware.



Where do I start...

GW has always stated they are niche and want to stay niche, they have invested considerable amounts of money in R&D and have some of the best model tooling equipment in the world. The things they are doing with plastic far exceed every other miniature company with maybe the only exception being Bandai. If you don't like getting a few dividend checks a year, then I don't know what to say. Investors in companies like GE live off the Dividend checks and I still don't see GE going away anytime soon either.

As for not nurturing growth in miniature gaming is patiently false. Besides all the companies that live off GW IP in compatible part and accessories. You have company's born from GW like Warlord Games and Mantic, in fact their is an article that is escaping me at the moment that goes into all the businesses GW has directly or indirectly fostered by its mere existence.

GW will never rise to the level of the video game industry, but from the sounds of it you rather they just become a video game maker? The fact they have not sold themselves to a bigger fish actually does say something about the desire of the company being ok with its lane. I also glad you seem to speak for the "kids" on what is and not cool. As someone so in-tuned I am shocked you have missed the growth in everything nostalgic or analog, as you referenced board games which are a gateway to Miniature games.

Your main argument is GW is should be mainstream like that should be the goal of every everyone like mainstream = the best. It is ok to be profitable and make things people enjoy, you don't need to blow up and lose the thing that got you where you are in the first place.

I get it you might be upset that GW is doing well again and probably are struggling with urges to dive back into the hobby, because you been burned by GW before and rather nay-say to keep whatever online persona you want to maintain. Please don't throw I know what I am talking about banter when you clearly don't.

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Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

GW's plastic production is like where Bandai and Tamiya were in 2005. Having put together both the latest 40k stuff and the latest Gundam, there's just no contest--Bandai wins hands down.

That said, GW probably shouldn't spend the resources needed t close that gap. I don't want the same thing from a GW kit as from a Bandai kit.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 tastytaste wrote:
GW has always stated they are niche and want to stay niche, they have invested considerable amounts of money in R&D and have some of the best model tooling equipment in the world. The things they are doing with plastic far exceed every other miniature company with maybe the only exception being Bandai.


GW kits are far sturdier than Bandai / Tamiya. I would not play Bandai / Tamiya on a tabletop week in-week out.

That said, Kingdom Death, DreamForge and Wyrd all produce minis that are at least equal to what GW produces, if not better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/08 00:48:55


   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Almost any random scale model (tanks, planes etc) is so much more detailed and intricate than anything GW has ever produced. Just put a 1/35 ww2 tank from for example tamiya next to a land raider.. poor land raider.
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






RoninXiC wrote:
Almost any random scale model (tanks, planes etc) is so much more detailed and intricate than anything GW has ever produced. Just put a 1/35 ww2 tank from for example tamiya next to a land raider.. poor land raider.


The above poster was correct that you wouldn't want to put those scale models on the table, onstantly shifting around and balancing on terrain. Wargaming models and scale models are entirely different types of model. Wargaming models need to be more robust because they're used more often.

However, the claim that GW make the 'best' plastic wargaming products hasn't been true for a few years. Other companies have gotten in on their ranges being HIPS and several, as pointed out already, surpass GW's models. The fact that GW keep saying they make the best wargaming miniatures in the world means very little. A local bakery says they make the best pies in the world, but I'm sure no one takes them seriously when they say it.
   
Made in gb
Major




London

Difference here is that people do really believe it when GW say that.
   
 
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