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CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yeah, not going to lie, Necrons usually get shafted when it comes to forgeworld. I mean, where is my titan equivalent? My Aeonic Orb? My Abattoir? The best thing we have FW wise is a flyer that actually looks well designed.

Not great for number of releases or big releases, no. Still, IA12 was pretty solid for us until 7th rolled around and was just short of entirely incompatible. My biggest complaint when it was interacting with 5th's codex in 6th was that the Tomb Stalker was terrible, yet had such a cool model.

Eyjio wrote:

changemod wrote:
Shoot missed "imperial armour index Xenos".

Though really from me talking about the Pylon you probably should have been able to work that out.

FW rules for Necron units have never been good, barring a cheese reading of the Death Ray pylon. I seriously doubt they're going to patch up the holes in our army now. Unless the Sentry Pylons cost under 150 points, we'll continue to have a huge gap in our AT ability. Likewise, Acanthrite melta is probably just going to be a S6 AP-3 gun rerolling damage, which isn't going to help either. I'm not quite sure what you're expecting to see from them honestly.

Even a unit of S6 Melta is pretty good next to current. 5+ instead of 4+ absolutely not great, but it's still Melta in units of 3-9.

Oh and the Tesseract Ark is another chance of something halfway decent.

That's not a telling batrep. Glad people are trying out the game, but I'm really nonplussed about an under-developed Necron army going against BA that seem to have an idea of what their new units do. And on top of that, apparently using incorrect rules. Whatever.

Again, don't worry about list building and performance until the meta starts calming down. Playing against mass MC/Vehicle lists is very different from playing against mass Infantry lists and knowing what to expect in general is a huge part of list writing. We don't know what the meta is going to be, and other armies have changed as much or even more than our own have.

Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

Yeah not sure what's up with that. If void blades are meant to have entropic strike, then they should have the Scarab ability to never wound on worse than a 5+.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, I wanted them to go that route a well. It could have even been a mortal wound on a 6, if they were worried about it being op. That would have been a nice nod to preward necrons.

Honestly, it seems like our characters are going to be really screwed in melee against anything but basic infantry. T5 or 6 isn't much protection anymore, and so many characters have stuff that inflicts multiple wounds. Two wounds from a Thunderhammer will kill any of our HQs, whilst we need to inflict at least 3 with a Warscythe.

People were berating me in a different thread for daring to say that our HQs were more fragile than they were in 7th, but they're still not looking survivable to me (at least not in any situation where they can't just hide behind other units).

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
So I was just trying to build a list for a quick test game against a friend shortly and I noticed that the Overlord/Lord/Cryptek has no option to take a Phylactery. In fact the the only HQ who gets a choice is the Destroyer Lord! WHAT!

I thought the same. I just don't understand that decision.

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

Clearly they thought Necrons had already exceeded the permitted number of interesting rules.

What GW believes about 8th edition necron players:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

Oh wow, they are. Hyperphase and Voidblade both have the same values . Looks like they're going to need a good talking to on Facebook.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

Oh wow, they are. Hyperphase and Voidblade both have the same values . Looks like their going to need a good talking too on Facebook.

The worst part is that they have different point costs.

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

This happens if one tries to update all rules for models and units at once.
As said, we need to wait what the new meta will be.
First turn charges, lots of vehicles, horde armies, shooty armies, assault armies, or what not.

 vipoid wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

Oh wow, they are. Hyperphase and Voidblade both have the same values . Looks like their going to need a good talking too on Facebook.

The worst part is that they have different point costs.

Yeaah definitely a good talking too. I guess they didn't work on the necrons as hard

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
Has anyone done the math on the points of your collection before and after 8th? My army went up by a little over 20%. I figure that this was part of their solution to shorter games.

That and things being streamlined. Cutting things from both ends, seems to be the way of things, though some troops got cheaper.

changemod wrote:
Not great for number of releases or big releases, no. Still, IA12 was pretty solid for us until 7th rolled around and was just short of entirely incompatible. My biggest complaint when it was interacting with 5th's codex in 6th was that the Tomb Stalker was terrible, yet had such a cool model.

Oh goodness, that model is amazing. It's just never been good. I don't even understand how they could make it only have 4 wounds when it's that big.

Even a unit of S6 Melta is pretty good next to current. 5+ instead of 4+ absolutely not great, but it's still Melta in units of 3-9.

Oh and the Tesseract Ark is another chance of something halfway decent.

Yeah, I mean, it's not bad, I just mean it still won't be cost effective as a solution to our issues.

MoonlightSonata wrote:Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

Huh? You know that the melee weapons list is the one at the start of the Necron rules, not the bit in the points section, right? You can only take Hyperphase swords (AP-3), Staff of Light (AP-2 + shooting attack) or the Warscythe (+2S AP-4). They all seem different enough to me.

I had totally missed that cryptecs +1 to reanimation stacks! Szeres' master technomancer states that it does not stack but two normal crypteks (or Orikan) do!

The Necron list in that batrep is not great, warriors should be in 20 strong blobs to start with.

Eyjio wrote:

changemod wrote:
Not great for number of releases or big releases, no. Still, IA12 was pretty solid for us until 7th rolled around and was just short of entirely incompatible. My biggest complaint when it was interacting with 5th's codex in 6th was that the Tomb Stalker was terrible, yet had such a cool model.

Oh goodness, that model is amazing. It's just never been good. I don't even understand how they could make it only have 4 wounds when it's that big.

Even a unit of S6 Melta is pretty good next to current. 5+ instead of 4+ absolutely not great, but it's still Melta in units of 3-9.

Oh and the Tesseract Ark is another chance of something halfway decent.

Yeah, I mean, it's not bad, I just mean it still won't be cost effective as a solution to our issues.

MoonlightSonata wrote:Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

Huh? You know that the melee weapons list is the one at the start of the Necron rules, not the bit in the points section, right? You can only take Hyperphase swords (AP-3), Staff of Light (AP-2 + shooting attack) or the Warscythe (+2S AP-4). They all seem different enough to me.

Actually the options are sword, voidblade and warscythe. Voidblade and sword have the exact same stats; -3 ap and 1 damage, user strength.

Eyjio wrote:

MoonlightSonata wrote:Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

Huh? You know that the melee weapons list is the one at the start of the Necron rules, not the bit in the points section, right? You can only take Hyperphase swords (AP-3), Staff of Light (AP-2 + shooting attack) or the Warscythe (+2S AP-4). They all seem different enough to me.

Yes that's what I'm referring to. They all start with a staff of light and you can replace them with (and bear with me here because the list is exhaustive);

Hyperphase Sword
Voidblade
Warscythe

The former two have the exact same weapon profile! S User, AP -3, D 1.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually the options are sword, voidblade and warscythe. Voidblade and sword have the exact same stats; -3 ap and 1 damage, user strength.

Huh, weird. I totally missed that passing over the rules. That is utterly bizarre.

My opinion is flipping a bit on Tomb Blades. For slightly less than the price of 3 Immortals, you can get essentially two pushed together plus almost triple the speed. Even just skirting the edges of range and popping away with max range Gauss isn't too bad, though I imagine Tesla is better if you're just harassing from 24". But a blitz rush with Gauss in Rapid Fire range is going to do surprising damage for their cost. 3 Gauss Blades with 3+ is 150, which is relatively cheap considering they're 2W each and 2+ in cover. You could ask a lot more for distraction pieces.

I'm also cooling a bit on Deathmarks. The shooting is very swingy especially against harder targets, but there's always that chance you get a bunch of MWs. A shooting unit that brings it's own DS for relatively cheap points is still really good, though.

I think 2 Destroyer + 1 Heavy units are the way to go. With being able to choose wound allocation, we can keep the Heavies safe to kill big targets (not that losing Destroyers is good, but keeping the Heavy alive is better against massive things).

I'm wiggly on Wraiths. I'm of the opinion that the enhanced durability and better generalist weapons makes them better against most targets, but they clearly are worse against big things. And since big things are going to be in the middle of the fray, where Wraiths are... I'm not sure on how that'll work. I suppose they're still fine with their speed if you want them to run flanks and threaten softer targets like Characters and shooting units, but they might have issues if they get stuck in with a Dreadnaught or Knight or something. Is MSU Wraith on the menu, little harass squads of 3 or 4? That way, if they get caught, it's not a huge point sink.

I love Flayed Ones, but I'm really cooling on them. The point jump may have been too much. They're really good statlines - don't get me wrong. 4 attacks BS3+ S4 rerolling wounds is good, especially if you get Imotekh in there. But, it's a very hefty point sink now. We went from 3.08 Flayed Ones per Wraith to 1.8 Flayed Ones per Wraith, which is a huge jump. Granted the new statline benefits them a lot, but that's expensive for infantry.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
Something else that's laughable is the fact that of the three melee weapons available to lords, two of them have the exact same weapon profile!

Oh wow, they are. Hyperphase and Voidblade both have the same values . Looks like they're going to need a good talking to on Facebook.

We should definitely all leave comments about it (and the other things) there, the more the better, so it gets notice... but maybe not until the release? (I doubt they'll address anything that was leaked for the time being).

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
An 8th edition 2000pts Necrons vs Blood Angels battle report for our discussion and dissection:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/6esoo7/battle_report_8th_edition_necrons_vs_blood_angels/

Nice. 10 Deathmarks and no Immortals with other bad tech thrown in. I can make a poor list too if I want to prove Necrons are bad... This is deja vu with 7th when people thought Decurion sucked because plopping down bricks of Warriors didn't work against various math-ups. Just because ready made formation combos are not being served up like TV dinners does not mean we lack the tools to create our own adventure playground for Necrons.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I had totally missed that cryptecs +1 to reanimation stacks! Szeres' master technomancer states that it does not stack but two normal crypteks (or Orikan) do!

The Necron list in that batrep is not great, warriors should be in 20 strong blobs to start with.

Nope, they don't. The Cryptek entry reads "... for models from freidnly <Dynasty> units within 3" of any friendly <Dynasty> Crypteks. It's still really good though.

I really think Deathmarks are gonna be superb. You get a totally safe Deep Strike within Rapid Fire range, which is 10 shots at minimum. At 20 points per model you can really spam that, plus they still retained that thing where they shoot on the opponents turn if they Deep Strike something.

That's pretty good utility and I definitely see myself using 2 squads at minimum.

So then, the Technomancer buff cannot be stacked by having multiple vanilla Crypteks standing near the same unit?
Oh well.

Anyway, need some clarification:
What CAN come out of Monoliths and Night Scythes now?

Hi guys,

i am starting with necrons, are there any units that i should avoid durning the 8th edition?

 Tokhuah wrote:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
An 8th edition 2000pts Necrons vs Blood Angels battle report for our discussion and dissection:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/6esoo7/battle_report_8th_edition_necrons_vs_blood_angels/

Nice. 10 Deathmarks and no Immortals with other bad tech thrown in. I can make a poor list too if I want to prove Necrons are bad... This is deja vu with 7th when people thought Decurion sucked because plopping down bricks of Warriors didn't work against various math-ups. Just because ready made formation combos are not being served up like TV dinners does not mean we lack the tools to create our own adventure playground for Necrons.

This so much. All the doom and gloom when the game isn't even released yet is frustrating oh well.

Side note, I completely missed that c'tan are characters, meaning they are safe in blobs of infantry until they make a break and charge! Makes them a lot more survivable!

Doesn't make a lick of sense, that floating shards of star gods are less of a threat than a little robot but I'm not complaining!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:
So then, the Technomancer buff cannot be stacked by having multiple vanilla Crypteks standing near the same unit?
Oh well.

Anyway, need some clarification:
What CAN come out of Monoliths and Night Scythes now?

All infantry with the dynasty keyword, so anything?

I still say flayed ones and deathmarks can come out. It gives you the option to set them up in their own deepstike area, or you can set them up in the tomb world. It says 'can' not 'must' when referring to deploying them in reserve.

What else was stopping other infantry units coming out?

Eyjio wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:
Erm, aren't heavy gauss cannons the necron answer to high toughness? S9 AP-4 will do some damage, a trio of heavy destroyers seems like a pretty reliable way to kill high toughness units.

You're looking at about 6 heavy destroyers to kill a 70 point Rhino or 103 point Chimera. That's 450 points of very vulnerable shooting...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
An 8th edition 2000pts Necrons vs Blood Angels battle report for our discussion and dissection:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/6esoo7/battle_report_8th_edition_necrons_vs_blood_angels/

Interesting, but a lot of incorrect rules:
-Vehicles CAN overwatch
-Can't fire out of Ghost Arks
-Can't stack Cryptek buffs (though not an issue in this game)
-Seems to imply multiple models were taken out by lascannons? Can't possibly happen, maybe was talking about chunks of wounds on vehicles?

In any case, this is about what I expected. Necrons cannot deal with vehicles and we're massively outgunned by just about everything. What a depressing read.

Well he brought three of our worst units in this edition, the obelisk, a CCB, and an Annihilation barge. That's over a third of his points, and predictably they did jack all. As he said in his summation, tesla still sucks. He brought too few of warriors, and he pulled them wrong otherwise Anrakyr would not have been targetable . He also didn't bring any anti-vehicles units such as scythe guard or heavy destroyers. His opponent brought a fairly solid comp with a focus on CC backed up by some hard hitting lascannon and Frag cannon support. If you look at the list it was never a contest.

If he had brought one of the many 2k lists from our army list forums including mine, the battle would have gone very differently.

 skoffs wrote:
So then, the Technomancer buff cannot be stacked by having multiple vanilla Crypteks standing near the same unit?
Oh well.

Anyway, need some clarification:
What CAN come out of Monoliths and Night Scythes now?

<Dynasty> Infantry Units, one per turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At 150-ish points there's nothing wrong with the Annihiliation Barge, especially if you're spamming Quantum Shielding.

Praetorians don't have <Dynasty>, so they're hoofing it. Which is fine, since they're fast and tough.

Really though I think the Monolith teleportation isn't that great. Not only do you have to wait a turn to use it, there isn't really a great thing to use it with.

Think about it: What do you want to come out of the Monolith?

Assault units are an ok choice, but not the best - if the opponent knows they're in there, they're just going to move away. The Monolith comes down 12" away and can't move, so unless they're running toward the big death brick you're getting at best a 9" charge but probably worse. Even if you bring down the Mono on T1, that's still not a decent charge until T3.

So you want to bring in a shooting unit - something that can interact with the board as soon as it pops out on T2 or so. But what really fits that? Realistically you would be looking for really powerful short range shooting that wouldn't be able to hoof it across the board by itself, like Meltas or Plasmas. But our stuff is all 24" on relatively sturdy bodies, so it's fine walking across or camping at one spot for the most part. Sure you might be able to get a surprise Rapid Fire turn with Immortals or Warriors, but that's not really that big of a deal.

The only real thing that teleporting a shooting unit with a Monolith brings over walking is that our shooting units are 5" and therefore the mobility helps. Which is true, to an extent, so it's not necessarily a bad thing to pop out Immortals or Warriors, it just feels a bit... maybe not wasted? But for sure not really the best use of nearly 400 points.

Not saying it's bad, of course. It's hard to kill, has good shooting, and while the teleport is subpar it's still a good thing. And there is always Deceiver shenanigans for crazy T1 board presence, which I expect to be used quite often. Just saying that it's a bit frustrating to finally have a really nice deep strike ability for our army, only to not have anything that really jumps out as gaining a massive benefit by deep striking.

I thought long and hard about the Monlith's 'porting ability and at the moment I can't see myself using it. Not only for the reasons you outline, but also because most of the stuff that can be used is the same stuff I want to be stacking buffs to RP on, which I can't do when they're all off by their lonesome.

If you want a surprise movement type unit, Obyron is the better choice IMO. Guaranteed charge that way. and he can do it with the same range of Infantry. I was thinking Lychguard or Flayed Ones for that business.

So I've been thinking about Ghost Arks, and I think you should have at most 1 ark per 2-4 units of warriors.

The reasoning being that as the repair buff is only 3", you'd need to have the warriors pretty close to the ark, and the most number of decently sized warrior squads that a single ark could buff is 4; two in front, 2 on the sides.
Ideally, a spyder with fabrication claws would go in the back to repair the ark.

This should theoretically be a durable and efficient formation that'll last for the game while laying down some fire.

A GA / Warrior / Spyder formation would look something like this
.................................. ... .. S
.................................... WGW
................... ................. W W

G - Ghost Ark
W - Warrior
S - Spyder

You can also try to squeeze a cryptek in there for extra hilarity. Ideally near the front, between the two warrior squads.

Keep in mind that the complete formation is quite expensive. Having just the two warrior squads in the front would be more common set up.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
I thought long and hard about the Monlith's 'porting ability and at the moment I can't see myself using it. Not only for the reasons you outline, but also because most of the stuff that can be used is the same stuff I want to be stacking buffs to RP on, which I can't do when they're all off by their lonesome.

If you want a surprise movement type unit, Obyron is the better choice IMO. Guaranteed charge that way. and he can do it with the same range of Infantry. I was thinking Lychguard or Flayed Ones for that business.

Obyron is also a bit hard to justify though. His teleport has to be towards Zahndrekh, and they move at the same speed. If you're moving Zahndrekh up the board to use Obyron to teleport Lychguard, why not just walk the dudes the same speed? You can use it to jump an extra 6" I suppose, but that's quite a few points for a 6" bonus move on one unit that you may or may not use. Unless you're really comitted to hiding Obyron + Lychguard in a corner for a few turns.