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 MrMoustaffa wrote:
As long as they don't have ridiculously large knockers, their faces don't look like they're straight from an anime, and they're not stripperiffic, I'll be very interested in these.

I do not have high hopes...

Funnily, the exact opposite from what I'm looking for

Denilsta wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
As long as they don't have ridiculously large knockers, their faces don't look like they're straight from an anime, and they're not stripperiffic, I'll be very interested in these.

I do not have high hopes...

Funnily, the exact opposite from what I'm looking for

Bear in mind I'm not knocking knockers in real life, I just don't look for them in wargaming minis. I'd like more "modest" armor, as in armor that you know, ACTUALLY COVERS YOUR CHEST, which you know, is kind of important.

This hobby gets me enough weird stares at times, I'd prefer people don't get some weird idea and figure o-err I mean think I'm a pervert at the same time.

Well, there was only 1 artwork so far that showed a girl with more skin than cloth, all the others were feminine but without an outfit you couldn't take serious anymore. So I wouldn't give up my hopes, the signs are good.

The Dark Elf concept art looks good as does the fem IG, but I have a couple big problems with the fem IG. They are over the top, have excessively large breasts, overly posed stances, too individualistic, and look more like a motley crew of mercenaries than soldiers or marines.

I understand you can't appeal to everyone, but why can't anyone make normal female soldiers?

 Amaya wrote:
but why can't anyone make normal female soldiers?

Didnt GoA claim no one wants them?

Based on my observation of male gamers the answer would be a resounding no.

Its disheartening that the only female models and figures the majority of gamers want to play with need a wasplike waist, DD breasts, minimal clothing, and a feth me face.

I like painting with big brushes.

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
but why can't anyone make normal female soldiers?

Didnt GoA claim no one wants them?

In fairness, the more "realistic" a woman is in modern (and thus Sci-fi) armor, the less you are able to actually tell that it's a woman. It's a real Catch-22 for model makers: people want "female models", but they also want models that "look" female. For example, consider the Ada model that Dreamforge Games put out with their KS campaign: wonderful model, but if you use a helmeted head instead of the supplied one with a beret and pageboy haircut, she would be indistinguishable from a male. She is so accurate, the differences so subtle, that you actually have to break from realism and have her have her head uncovered in order to discern gender.

By contrast, in any discussion of female models, it's worth pointing out an observation made by Bryan from Reaper;

But we have done some tests. Conversions on the same figure, and released under different part numbers and names have shown that an immodest figure will outsell a more modest version of the same exact figure. A topless version will sell a LOT more, and full nudity will sell even more.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I like painting with big brushes.

'

Its almost as fun as ignoring the obvious because you don't want to accept reality.

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
but why can't anyone make normal female soldiers?

Didnt GoA claim no one wants them?

In fairness, the more "realistic" a woman is in modern (and thus Sci-fi) armor, the less you are able to actually tell that it's a woman. It's a real Catch-22 for model makers: people want "female models", but they also want models that "look" female. For example, consider the Ada model that Dreamforge Games put out with their KS campaign: wonderful model, but if you use a helmeted head instead of the supplied one with a beret and pageboy haircut, she would be indistinguishable from a male. She is so accurate, the differences so subtle, that you actually have to break from realism and have her have her head uncovered in order to discern gender.

By contrast, in any discussion of female models, it's worth pointing out an observation made by Bryan from Reaper;

But we have done some tests. Conversions on the same figure, and released under different part numbers and names have shown that an immodest figure will outsell a more modest version of the same exact figure. A topless version will sell a LOT more, and full nudity will sell even more.

Ah yes, otherwise known as "The Hollywood Action Shlock Justification Argument" - "it sells better than the alternatives, and we like money, so f*** niche markets *leaps into a bathtub full of cash*". I find I like it even less used in this context.

However, I don't actually think the "not-Guardswomen" concepts are too bad in that regard; yes, they tend towards the ample end of natural features, but unlike the Commissar Sisters, they don't look like they've got Beach Bunny inflatable plastic balloons strapped to their chests, their clothing is...well, clothing as opposed to bondage gear, and certainly in the case of the one with the "not-Heavy Bolter" look like a certified badass. If they can preserve that aspect in the final models -ie, obvious female characteristics without being ludicrous, combined with a cool but still militaristic feel- and the scale issues are fully sorted, I'll likely go in for a few, I'd love a few really good female models for some of my Inquisitor warbands.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
but why can't anyone make normal female soldiers?

Didnt GoA claim no one wants them?

In fairness, the more "realistic" a woman is in modern (and thus Sci-fi) armor, the less you are able to actually tell that it's a woman. It's a real Catch-22 for model makers: people want "female models", but they also want models that "look" female. For example, consider the Ada model that Dreamforge Games put out with their KS campaign: wonderful model, but if you use a helmeted head instead of the supplied one with a beret and pageboy haircut, she would be indistinguishable from a male. She is so accurate, the differences so subtle, that you actually have to break from realism and have her have her head uncovered in order to discern gender.

By contrast, in any discussion of female models, it's worth pointing out an observation made by Bryan from Reaper;

But we have done some tests. Conversions on the same figure, and released under different part numbers and names have shown that an immodest figure will outsell a more modest version of the same exact figure. A topless version will sell a LOT more, and full nudity will sell even more.

Ah yes, otherwise known as "The Hollywood Action Shlock Justification Argument" - "it sells better than the alternatives, and we like money, so f*** niche markets *leaps into a bathtub full of cash*". I find I like it even less used in this context.

However, I don't actually think the "not-Guardswomen" concepts are too bad in that regard; yes, they tend towards the ample end of natural features, but unlike the Commissar Sisters, they don't look like they've got Beach Bunny inflatable plastic balloons strapped to their chests, their clothing is...well, clothing as opposed to bondage gear, and certainly in the case of the one with the "not-Heavy Bolter" look like a certified badass. If they can preserve that aspect in the final models -ie, obvious female characteristics without being ludicrous, combined with a cool but still militaristic feel- and the scale issues are fully sorted, I'll likely go in for a few, I'd love a few really good female models for some of my Inquisitor warbands.

Small amount of cognitive dissonance going on there it seems...

In fairness, Raging Heroes is... not exactly a corporate colossus, shall we say. Of all the companies in this field, that argument would really only seem to have force against GW, who actually could afford to explore less well traveled roads with female miniatures. Of course, that would require them to make female miniatures at all... (yes, I know they make some, I am being intentionally hyperbolic for effect).

As for the proposed level of realism you seem to like...



Going off this, I think you'll be fine with their offerings.

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
but why can't anyone make normal female soldiers?

Didnt GoA claim no one wants them?

In fairness, the more "realistic" a woman is in modern (and thus Sci-fi) armor, the less you are able to actually tell that it's a woman. It's a real Catch-22 for model makers: people want "female models", but they also want models that "look" female. For example, consider the Ada model that Dreamforge Games put out with their KS campaign: wonderful model, but if you use a helmeted head instead of the supplied one with a beret and pageboy haircut, she would be indistinguishable from a male. She is so accurate, the differences so subtle, that you actually have to break from realism and have her have her head uncovered in order to discern gender.

By contrast, in any discussion of female models, it's worth pointing out an observation made by Bryan from Reaper;

But we have done some tests. Conversions on the same figure, and released under different part numbers and names have shown that an immodest figure will outsell a more modest version of the same exact figure. A topless version will sell a LOT more, and full nudity will sell even more.

Ah yes, otherwise known as "The Hollywood Action Shlock Justification Argument" - "it sells better than the alternatives, and we like money, so f*** niche markets *leaps into a bathtub full of cash*". I find I like it even less used in this context.

However, I don't actually think the "not-Guardswomen" concepts are too bad in that regard; yes, they tend towards the ample end of natural features, but unlike the Commissar Sisters, they don't look like they've got Beach Bunny inflatable plastic balloons strapped to their chests, their clothing is...well, clothing as opposed to bondage gear, and certainly in the case of the one with the "not-Heavy Bolter" look like a certified badass. If they can preserve that aspect in the final models -ie, obvious female characteristics without being ludicrous, combined with a cool but still militaristic feel- and the scale issues are fully sorted, I'll likely go in for a few, I'd love a few really good female models for some of my Inquisitor warbands.

Small amount of cognitive dissonance going on there it seems...

In fairness, Raging Heroes is... not exactly a corporate colossus, shall we say. Of all the companies in this field, that argument would really only seem to have force against GW, who actually could afford to explore less well traveled roads with female miniatures. Of course, that would require them to make female miniatures at all... (yes, I know they make some, I am being intentionally hyperbolic for effect).

As for the proposed level of realism you seem to like...

Spoiler:

Going off this, I think you'll be fine with their offerings.

Any chance you could render this without what I suspect is sarcasm and implication? I only ask because I genuinely struggle with that whole aspect of communication, and as a rule I like to correct any instances of cognitive dissonance.

 Amaya wrote:
Its almost as fun as ignoring the obvious because you don't want to accept reality.

It must be fun to know what the majority of gamers want. Where did you find out?

As a curiosity, where is this countdown?

 Absolutionis wrote:
As a curiosity, where is this countdown?

My guess would be right after zombie idle ends. There are too many good kickstarters going right now to try and pull money out of nothing. While two completely different types of games/models, there is still the one market. Maybe they'll start after wwx has ended.

What about #1 and #3, but not #2?

There will always be a "good kickstarter" running, you just got to avoid the real sinkers.

 Amaya wrote:
They are over the top, have excessively large breasts, overly posed stances, too individualistic, and look more like a motley crew of mercenaries than soldiers or marines. I understand you can't appeal to everyone, but why can't anyone make normal female soldiers?

I can't see excessively large breasts, just look at Cruz or Parker. Of course they are individualistic (and therefore posed different) because they are characters. The KS features troops and characters and vehicles. So maybe you find the normal female soldiers there, don't forget that it is called Toughest Girls of the Galaxy for a reason, so individuals do look very individual while I am sure the troop will be more uniform.

Regarding the quote from Reaper: Maybe there test had this result but I can't see that this result has to work for other companies. If it would work for everyone, I am sure Infinitys gals wouldn't look like they do (or any other females of a brand).

I'm a little confused - what do you mean about Infinity's females?

I mean, if naked or half naked females would sell so enormously better, other companies wouldn't waste time on designs, cloth and so on but just sell naked or half naked females but as that doesn't happen, it is not an universal formula.

WolfStark wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
They are over the top, have excessively large breasts, overly posed stances, too individualistic, and look more like a motley crew of mercenaries than soldiers or marines. I understand you can't appeal to everyone, but why can't anyone make normal female soldiers?

I can't see excessively large breasts, just look at Cruz or Parker. Of course they are individualistic (and therefore posed different) because they are characters. The KS features troops and characters and vehicles. So maybe you find the normal female soldiers there, don't forget that it is called Toughest Girls of the Galaxy for a reason, so individuals do look very individual while I am sure the troop will be more uniform.

Regarding the quote from Reaper: Maybe there test had this result but I can't see that this result has to work for other companies. If it would work for everyone, I am sure Infinitys gals wouldn't look like they do (or any other females of a brand).

I'm unclear what the implication is regarding Infinity's women: they have been explicit that when sculpting females, they attempt to incorporate a sophisticated sex appeal. From the design notes on the Chimera; "the challenge was to design a human-animal face that keeps the characteristic attractiveness of the Infinity girls", "as they know the style of the sexy Infinity girls".

We can only hope that RH's females will be both feminine and somewhat titillating, or at least sufficiently so to make them easily distinguishable from more masculine models, in the fashion of CB's "sexy Infinity girls".

@Yodhrin: similarly to the above, the "cognitive dissonance" refers (although in fairness, it's merely prima facia dissonant) to your seeming to both condemn at first and then to embrace titillation. Put more simply; if you dislike titillation, but feel the presented image (of Cruz) does not rise to that, then you should be fine with the style presented. We think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WolfStark wrote:
I mean, if naked or half naked females would sell so enormously better, other companies wouldn't waste time on designs, cloth and so on but just sell naked or half naked females but as that doesn't happen, it is not an universal formula.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but what would you estimate the ratio of titillating female miniatures is to completely realistic and proportional minis?

Like I said, there are a lot of reasons for why female minis look the way they do, the vast majority of them are not invidious.

 Buzzsaw wrote:


@Yodhrin: similarly to the above, the "cognitive dissonance" refers (although in fairness, it's merely prima facia dissonant) to your seeming to both condemn at first and then to embrace titillation. Put more simply; if you dislike titillation, but feel the presented image (of Cruz) does not rise to that, then you should be fine with the style presented. We think.

OK, now I'm even more confused, because the conclusion you're coming to is a bit odd IMO; if I argue that example A is titilation, and express dislike for it, then argue that example B is not titilation....then how is expressing an interest in purchasing example B an instance of cognitive dissonance, ie the ability to hold two mutually contradictory concepts in the mind at the same time? The Cruz image is one of an attractive woman(if you like the punk aesthetic, I happen to), but it is not overtly sexualised in the manner of some of the previous models, who apparently live in the grim darkness of the far future where there are only breast implants. Would you look at Ripley and Vasquez from the Aliens film on one hand, and a Playboy Bunny on the other, and say to yourself "yep, those are the same"?

If you want to see a 28mm women that looks like a fighting women check out the sedition wars plastic Vanguard. They have women in full armour that look good. Perhaps the breasts are a little large but not terrible so. IMO

griffen127 wrote:
They have women in full armour that look good. Perhaps the breasts are a little large but not terrible so.

This reads like an Amazon-style review for the world's best dating site.

Can't wait till this KS goes live and starts bringing me some more Escher models.

@Buzzsaw
Well, I think the Infinity girls, as sexy as say are, are also mostly reasonable, realistic and good proportioned. I think the ratio of naked/half naked to decent dressed females is high on the decent dressed side. That's the important thing I wanted to point out, while it is clear that most of them can be identified as woman through breasts(plates), skin and so on but that is far from visible nipples. I could imagine, that the KS wouldn't go out so well or could even fail if all RH would do are two armies of sluts fighting each other, if they wouldn't provide girls like in the Kingdom Death KS.

Another update and character: http://www.ragingheroes.com/blogs/news/7498684

Proving (once again) that most things are bigger in ze future. Fangs on beasts, muscles on men, breasts on women - and heavy weapons

Gotta love it.

This KS will get me into collecting IG again.

That heavy gunner looks terrific.

Have been spending far to much on Kickstarter recently and promised myself to stop it. But with this and Mantics Deadzone KS hitting soon they just keep reeling me back in lol!

Well I think I am rather interested in this one, no use of them, but will look cool on the display case, whenever I manage to paint them, only comment I would have is that I am really not fond of the sculls on the opposing faction feet.