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Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
Spoiler:
Like mine! I've posted my character her 3 times, and made my own thread for him, and twice, from 2 different people, the best response I got was 'What aspect is he for?'. I'm sorry if im sounding selfish and all, but to me it seems that to get a response of any of the people on this thread who's opinion I give a dam about,See Backsail, McNinja and Ovion or any other poster with but a degree of understanding of the balance of the game (you know who you are) I have to create a character who is OP as all Gak with ridiculous special rules or simply be infamous with making decidedly OP characters (And HE knows who HE is). One more time, then I'll have to make him OP as heck
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts? Could Someone help, I don't know how to point up a phoenix lord when the only equivalent are other Lords
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target
Oh, and before you ask, he is the phoenix lord of the Slicing Orbs of Zandros aspect warriors, who would also be battle-kines who use the same sort of weapons.
Heh, your character is actually in a list of characters waiting for me to go over, but it means going over the new eldar book and the slicing orbs entries - there's a bunch of stuff that I just don't know atm, while things like the crazy thing are marine base, and so easy to cost.
At a glance, it looks OK, but obviously more indepth work would be needed to confirm that.
Ok, I missed it - this thing wants to be at least 365pts, meaning it's 40pts under at 325.
Also, by my fuzzy math (i.e. - done in my head on the fly) it will fail roughly 1/3 of the time on 4D4. So I costed it and divided by 3.
I mean, I can cost up his older / original version if you want, I think it's in some quotes floating about.
Also - as well as my linear '+/-10' base system has worked, I'm not sure if it's... robust enough for some things - so I'm going to create a non-linear guide.
I'm pleased people appreciate my efforts. ^-^
Yeah, your math is fine, trust me. I have the exact same system in my head when I provide feedback, though yours is more specific than what I personally roll with.
There are quite a bit of people, I'm sure, who are pleased with your constant help in this thread and others.
It is hard to balance the non-linear things. For example, FnP is worth more on a T5 character than a T4 character. But how much more? How does it scale? What about in conjunction with EW? IWND? Its genuinely hard, because when you start stacking complimentary rules, the outcome is greater than the individual rules; you can create some extremely synergistic characters this way, for better or for worse.
Either way, the 40k system is not the best for this kind of work. There's no real formula, unlike several other games where there are actual formulas and rules for building custom everythings.
Oh well, you gotta start analyzing with the numbers, then listen to your gut.
Yeah, and on the linear system (and even that's not an especially accurate name), it sort of evens out.
+10 for both +1T and +FnP, means 20pts total, and it generally works out.
Eternal Warrior is 35pts - you pay that premium, and it's ultimately worth less on a T5 character than a T3 character.
And yes, it's hard - but I'm going to be running with a similar system to what it is, but drawing from the most recent costs of certain things I can - i.e. +15pts for 3+ save to 2+ save.
It'll be quite a bit of work tbh, but worth it I think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/10 19:57:33
Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
Spoiler:
Like mine! I've posted my character her 3 times, and made my own thread for him, and twice, from 2 different people, the best response I got was 'What aspect is he for?'. I'm sorry if im sounding selfish and all, but to me it seems that to get a response of any of the people on this thread who's opinion I give a dam about,See Backsail, McNinja and Ovion or any other poster with but a degree of understanding of the balance of the game (you know who you are) I have to create a character who is OP as all Gak with ridiculous special rules or simply be infamous with making decidedly OP characters (And HE knows who HE is). One more time, then I'll have to make him OP as heck
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts? Could Someone help, I don't know how to point up a phoenix lord when the only equivalent are other Lords
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target
Oh, and before you ask, he is the phoenix lord of the Slicing Orbs of Zandros aspect warriors, who would also be battle-kines who use the same sort of weapons.
Heh, your character is actually in a list of characters waiting for me to go over, but it means going over the new eldar book and the slicing orbs entries - there's a bunch of stuff that I just don't know atm, while things like the crazy thing are marine base, and so easy to cost.
At a glance, it looks OK, but obviously more indepth work would be needed to confirm that.
Ok, I missed it - this thing wants to be at least 365pts, meaning it's 40pts under at 325.
Also, by my fuzzy math (i.e. - done in my head on the fly) it will fail roughly 1/3 of the time on 4D4. So I costed it and divided by 3.
I mean, I can cost up his older / original version if you want, I think it's in some quotes floating about.
Also - as well as my linear '+/-10' base system has worked, I'm not sure if it's... robust enough for some things - so I'm going to create a non-linear guide.
I'm pleased people appreciate my efforts. ^-^
Yeah, your math is fine, trust me. I have the exact same system in my head when I provide feedback, though yours is more specific than what I personally roll with.
There are quite a bit of people, I'm sure, who are pleased with your constant help in this thread and others.
It is hard to balance the non-linear things. For example, FnP is worth more on a T5 character than a T4 character. But how much more? How does it scale? What about in conjunction with EW? IWND? Its genuinely hard, because when you start stacking complimentary rules, the outcome is greater than the individual rules; you can create some extremely synergistic characters this way, for better or for worse.
Either way, the 40k system is not the best for this kind of work. There's no real formula, unlike several other games where there are actual formulas and rules for building custom everythings.
Oh well, you gotta start analyzing with the numbers, then listen to your gut.
Yeah, and on the linear system (and even that's not an especially accurate name), it sort of evens out.
+10 for both +1T and +FnP, means 20pts total, and it generally works out.
Eternal Warrior is 35pts - you pay that premium, and it's ultimately worth less on a T5 character than a T3 character.
And yes, it's hard - but I'm going to be running with a similar system to what it is, but drawing from the most recent costs of certain things I can - i.e. +15pts for 3+ save to 2+ save.
It'll be quite a bit of work tbh, but worth it I think.
A lot of the feedback got through to me.
I'd appreciate if you could go over the new rules.
He also has a nerf to his Berserker mode and a nerf to his IWND.
Here it is
Guts, the black swordsman
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:285
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 4+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon ,Repeating Crossbow
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 2D6 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn. You have no control over the movement. He moves in a straight line the direction that means he gets to the target the quickest.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2013/08/11 05:01:36
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."
Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
Spoiler:
Like mine! I've posted my character her 3 times, and made my own thread for him, and twice, from 2 different people, the best response I got was 'What aspect is he for?'. I'm sorry if im sounding selfish and all, but to me it seems that to get a response of any of the people on this thread who's opinion I give a dam about,See Backsail, McNinja and Ovion or any other poster with but a degree of understanding of the balance of the game (you know who you are) I have to create a character who is OP as all Gak with ridiculous special rules or simply be infamous with making decidedly OP characters (And HE knows who HE is). One more time, then I'll have to make him OP as heck
Phoenix Lord Zandros, The bladed Hurricane. 240pts? Could Someone help, I don't know how to point up a phoenix lord when the only equivalent are other Lords
Ws8
Bs8
S4
T4
W3
I8
A4
Ld10
Save 2+
For the record, bump in stats aren't because this phoenix lord is better then the others. Its because I think all phoenix lords should have this stat line. They should be better in combat then a lowly Archon and at least match an assassin.
Wargear. Phoenix armour, plasma grenades,
Remnants of glory
Slicing Orbs of Zandros. Ancient, battered silver orbs are inset into the phoenix lords amour. When battle calls these orbs, beckoned by Zandros's psykic stimuli, begin to orbit Zandros akin to a small moon. Zandros then orders the orbs to fly amongst the seething masses of interlopers and then they explode in a scintillating flash of blades which leaves enemies in bloody chunks.
Range18 Str 5 Ap -assault 2,blast, pinning, rending.
or Range Melee, Strength +1, Ap -, rending, Bladed rotation*
* Zandros inflicts an automatic hit on any enemy model in base contact with him, as well as making his normal attacks.
Warlord traint: Mark of the incomparable hunter
Special Rules:
Ancient doom, battle focus, Eternal warrior, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Independent character, Psyker (mastery level 2), SoulFire.
SoulFire.Every phoenix lord's armour invariably contains the souls of thousands of powerful exarchs, each spirit coalesced into the greater spirit of the armour much akin to a miniature infinity circuit. This gives the phoenix lord a deep well of psykic power to draw upon with surrounds the Lords warp shadow in blazing soulfire which absorbs and reflects foul Magiks,
The phoenix lord has the Adamantium Will USR and for each successful deny the witch attempted rolled by the phoenix lord the psyker that attempted the power must take a blinding test, as well as any enemy daemons or psykers within 6 inches.
Can only choose powers on the telekinesis table.
Exarch Powers
Fast shot, Course of blades*
Grants a 4+ cover save to Exarch against any weapon blow strength 8, by way of the mystical orbs blocking the blow or obscuring the target
Oh, and before you ask, he is the phoenix lord of the Slicing Orbs of Zandros aspect warriors, who would also be battle-kines who use the same sort of weapons.
Sorry!
Let's see here...
First, I like it.
Second, I think that the Orbs need to be defined better. Giving them a simple weapon profile works, but they need some tweaking. S4 is fine (instead of S5), mainly because of Rending, but I'm not sure if small floating balls have greater slicing power than a Space Marine or other Phoenix Lord. The Rending is used to represent the flurry of blows and the chance to hit a vital area, so that covers being able to wound large creatures.
I think that instead of assault 2 small blast it could be just one large blast, simply because the orbs would cover more ground that way. Defining how many orbs he actually has would work, but if not that's ok. For the melee profile, I'm not sure, hitting every model in base contact works, but what if he's in a challenge? Would he only get 5 total hits? Granted, that's a lot, but they aren't even AP3, which even Maugan Ra has. Every other lord has an AP2 (or AP1) weapon and at least 5 attacks on the charge. Each PL is a singular wrecking ball. I think that adding in something along the lines of "in a challenge, Zandros gains 1+d3 attacks. This dudes shitck is that he has a gak ton of attacks. Not AP2 attacks like everyone elses, but he has nearly double their attacks in challenges, which evens the playing field. It also makes him better at handling hordes than the others.
More tomorrow, right now I'm helping the gf study for her final. I do like the character, perhaps you could help me invent another aspect? I've been trying to think of one, as you can tell from Illinar, but it just doesn't feel right. Anyway, Zandros is a baller, even if you don't take my suggestions he is well costed and balanced.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ovion wrote: Yeah, and on the linear system (and even that's not an especially accurate name), it sort of evens out.
+10 for both +1T and +FnP, means 20pts total, and it generally works out.
Eternal Warrior is 35pts - you pay that premium, and it's ultimately worth less on a T5 character than a T3 character.
And yes, it's hard - but I'm going to be running with a similar system to what it is, but drawing from the most recent costs of certain things I can - i.e. +15pts for 3+ save to 2+ save.
It'll be quite a bit of work tbh, but worth it I think.
I daresay it's time to make a guide up, then. Since you have gone all Hardcore on the costs of characters, perhaps we can put our collective heads together and think of something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/11 04:13:01
A lot of the feedback got through to me and now he sits at 425.
I'd appreciate if you could go over the new rules a few posts back. It's about 4-5 posts back.
He also has a nerf to his Berserker mode and a nerf to his IWND.
Here it is
Guts, the black swordsman
|.WS.|.BS.|.S.|.T.|.W.|.I..|.A.|.Ld.|.Sv.| Points:425
|...7..|..5....|.5.|.5.|..4..|.7.|.6..|.10.|.3+.|
Special Rules: 4+ It Will Not Die, EW, 4+ Feel No Pain, Fearless, Fear, Fleet, Preferred Enemy (Daemons)
Wargear: Berserker Armor, Dragon Slayer, Hand Cannon ,Repeating Crossbow
Berserker Armor: Every turn Guts takes a Leadership test on 2D6 if he passes nothing happens if he fails his armor save becomes a 2+, he gains a 5+ Invul, Rerolls failed Feel No Pain saves & It Will Not Die rolls gains Rage,and must charge the nearest unit every turn. You have no control over the movement. He moves in a straight line the direction that means he gets to the target the quickest.
DragonSlayer: The sheer length and size of the sword means that Guts can attack enemies up to 2 inches away. It grants an additional +2 strength when in combat, and is AP:2
Hand Cannon: This is a one use weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Assault 1, 36 inch range
Repeating Crossbow: This is a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:3, AP:5, Assault 4, 24 inch range
Most of the critique was undue IMO. Right now he is fantastically overpriced, you increased his points by too much in adittion to the(warranted) nerfs.
Remove fear( he is a scary guy, but no daemon) and reduce to 285 points.
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
Thanks McNinja, I've half made the model and now I've half got rules Strength 4 is ok, I will make that change, but the reason it can't be a large blast is because of his exarch power, fast shot. That gives him an extra shot with everything but flame templates, so instead of 1 large blast, its 2, which I thin is a bit OP, while 2(Well, 3 really) covers about the same area, can hit more people in a confined space and gives more hits against vehicles. That's how i'd look at it. What is he gains an attack for everyone within 1 inches of his base? Giving him a Gak load of attacks, with the downside they have to hit. I think I will lose the + 1 strength in combat to, so they just grant extra attacks and rending. Also do you think being a psyker is too much? Being a level 2 psyker should cost like 40pts, so maybe he should be a bit more? Thanks for looking into it, good luck helping your GF 'study', hope its biology
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Thanks McNinja, I've half made the model and now I've half got rules Strength 4 is ok, I will make that change, but the reason it can't be a large blast is because of his exarch power, fast shot. That gives him an extra shot with everything but flame templates, so instead of 1 large blast, its 2, which I thin is a bit OP, while 2(Well, 3 really) covers about the same area, can hit more people in a confined space and gives more hits against vehicles. That's how i'd look at it. What is he gains an attack for everyone within 1 inches of his base? Giving him a Gak load of attacks, with the downside they have to hit. I think I will lose the + 1 strength in combat to, so they just grant extra attacks and rending. Also do you think being a psyker is too much? Being a level 2 psyker should cost like 40pts, so maybe he should be a bit more? Thanks for looking into it, good luck helping your GF 'study', hope its biology
Totally forgot about Fast shot! In that case, small blast is fine.
Everything within 1" pretty much only covers those who are in base contact, since the base is about an inch. If you want to give him a gakload of attacks, you could do "for each of his attacks that hit, he inflicts another D3 automatic hits (this could also just give him +d3 attacks her hit)". My thinking is that if the slicing orbs are doing all of the work, those 4/5 attacks would be the number of orbs he has, so 4+maybe another 4D3 is a lot.
And no, not biology. Its Human Anatomy and Physiology
1 inch? I swear I put 2, typing fart How about place a small template over anywhere on his base, and he gets extra attacks equal to how many models are touched by it. And to top it off, when ever an enemy model uses its pile in move to move into base contact with Zandros, they take a strength for rending hit before they get to attack so show them running into a storm of blades. So he will be getting 5 attacks on the charge plus about 3/4 from the small template over him plus attacks when the enemy piles in at their Initiative step +1. That's like 10 or so attacks, plus extra for piling in. He would really get deadly in second turn of combat when everyone piles in around him and he could get 5/6 touched by the template, nasty! I would up his points to 260, but i'd also up the rest of the P.Lords up to round the 240/260 mark.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/11 13:19:15
Mr. Burning wrote: Blacksails, It's pointless trying to have any reasonable discussion with ThePrimordial. You are best off commenting on other posters ideas.
If this is your idea of "helping" a WIP the same thing is more true for you, my buck tooth British friend.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/11 18:29:35
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."
I feel like GW needs to get their head on straight concerning their system, before we can really balance anything except a linear system.
I mean, Libbys in 5th were 100 points, and an Epistolary was 150. Fast forward to DA 6th, and they're 65 and 100 points respectively. Ezekiel is absurdly undercosted by 5th standards, his 3 wounds, 3 attacks, (basically a captain base), 2+ save and force weapon would get him almost to 145 on their own, let alone a psyker power, let alone 3.
I suppose in 6th it works, though he'd still be underpriced. If we assume the 3rd power costs the same as the 2nd, then he'd come in at 135. Problem is, that's before that 3rd wound, 3rd attack, and mastercrafting of the force weapon (also before the +1 WS bubble too).
Or Dorn. Dorn should be about 300 points. He has a 2+/3++, EW, a mastercrafted S10 hammer that adds one on the vehicle damage chart (2 in 6th, though the change to the chart evens things out), bolter drill, grants army wide stubborn, has bolster defenses, and possibly most importantly, has a 4th wound.
Going by 5th's costs, his base termy armor + SS + hammer = 170, then up to 205 with EW. If we make the mastercrafting, +2 str, +1 vehicle damage chart, bolter drill, chapter tactics, and bolster defenses all 10 points each, he's looking at 265. Then you also have that 4th wound...
Anyone else want a force with Lysander and Grimnar together? That list would have very few models, but dang the top guys would be hard to kill.
DogofWar1 wrote: I feel like GW needs to get their head on straight concerning their system, before we can really balance anything except a linear system.
I mean, Libbys in 5th were 100 points, and an Epistolary was 150. Fast forward to DA 6th, and they're 65 and 100 points respectively. Ezekiel is absurdly undercosted by 5th standards, his 3 wounds, 3 attacks, (basically a captain base), 2+ save and force weapon would get him almost to 145 on their own, let alone a psyker power, let alone 3.
I suppose in 6th it works, though he'd still be underpriced. If we assume the 3rd power costs the same as the 2nd, then he'd come in at 135. Problem is, that's before that 3rd wound, 3rd attack, and mastercrafting of the force weapon (also before the +1 WS bubble too).
Or Dorn. Dorn should be about 300 points. He has a 2+/3++, EW, a mastercrafted S10 hammer that adds one on the vehicle damage chart (2 in 6th, though the change to the chart evens things out), bolter drill, grants army wide stubborn, has bolster defenses, and possibly most importantly, has a 4th wound.
Going by 5th's costs, his base termy armor + SS + hammer = 170, then up to 205 with EW. If we make the mastercrafting, +2 str, +1 vehicle damage chart, bolter drill, chapter tactics, and bolster defenses all 10 points each, he's looking at 265. Then you also have that 4th wound...
Anyone else want a force with Lysander and Grimnar together? That list would have very few models, but dang the top guys would be hard to kill.
Screw grimnar, try draigo.
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: 1 inch? I swear I put 2, typing fart How about place a small template over anywhere on his base, and he gets extra attacks equal to how many models are touched by it. And to top it off, when ever an enemy model uses its pile in move to move into base contact with Zandros, they take a strength for rending hit before they get to attack so show them running into a storm of blades. So he will be getting 5 attacks on the charge plus about 3/4 from the small template over him plus attacks when the enemy piles in at their Initiative step +1. That's like 10 or so attacks, plus extra for piling in. He would really get deadly in second turn of combat when everyone piles in around him and he could get 5/6 touched by the template, nasty! I would up his points to 260, but i'd also up the rest of the P.Lords up to round the 240/260 mark.
What if... instead of allowing to make his normal attacks, he placed small blast markers anywhere in base contact with his base, equal in number to the amount of attacks he has? That'd give him a ton of rending attacks
Equipment: Rune Armor, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade, Ghosthelm, Eldar Jetbike, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing
Special Rules:
Psyker – Moria generates her powers from the Divination, Telepathy, and Runes of Fate disciplines.
Chosen of the Crone - In a primary detachment that includes Moria, Howling Banshees are troops choices instead of elites.
Remnants of Glory-
Pouch of Fates: This ancient leather pouch was said to have once been carried by Morai-Heg, but now rests in the hands of Moria. It is adorned with many Eldar runes, and said to contain the fate of all mortals within it. By peering into the pouch Moria can learn the fates of those nearby, be they friend or foe.
At the beginning of your turn you may choose to peer into the bag and learn of a units fate. Nominate one unit within 24” that Moria has line of site to. If that unit is an enemy until the start of its next turn it suffers a -1 to all saves (A unit with a 6+ in a save then loses that save all together), as Moria has seen it is fated to die. If the unit is friendly it gains a +1 (to a maximum of +2)to all saves until the start of their next turn, Moria has seen that this unit is not fated to die today. Every time Moria peers into the bag, the secrets of the future wrack her mind and senses - she immediately takes a Strength 3 AP1 hit, with the Ignores Cover and Blind special rules. If Moria nominated herself or her own unit, she instead suffers a Strength 6 AP1 hit, with the Ignores Cover and Blind special rules, as knowing ones own destiny can be too much for anyone to know.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/08/13 13:23:12
So not quite 'unique' but certainly a Character that I though you lot might enjoy, primarily intended for smaller games but could be fun even in bigger 'themed' lists:
X Commander
Army: Any
BG: When smaller task forces are sent out, they do not always warrant the extensive skills and experience of high ranking Captains.
Instead command of these forces are delegated to more experienced Sergeants and Champions.
FO:HQ Squad: X Commander*
Unit: X Commander, Points Per: As Character +15, Models: 1, Unit Type: As Character,
WS-As Character, BS-As Character, S-As Character, T-As Character, W-As Character +1, I-As Character, A-As Character, Ld-As Character, Sv-As Character.
*You may select any non-HQ Character model within the Codex to use as an X Commander, where X is the units name (i.e. Space Marine Sergeant Commander or Terminator Champion Commander).
The chosen model may take any wargear or options it could take as part of its original unit.
Limited Authority: All units count as 0-1 if X Commanders are the only HQ choice taken, though you may choose one Troops choice to be 0-2.
(Note, if you select 2 X Commanders, you can still only have one 0-2 Troops Choice and all other unit remain 0-1).
Wargear:
As Character
Special Rules:
As Character
Independent Character
Options:
As Character
TL;DR:
Choose any non-HQ character model, pay its cost +15pts to make it an Independent Character with +1W.
All units become 0-1, bar one Troops Choice which is now 0-2.
EXAMPLES:
C:CSM: I choose a Terminator Champion Commander, with the Mark of Slaanesh and Veterans of the Long War for 55pts (33 for Champion, 7 for upgrades, 15 for X Commander).
It now has 2W and is an Independent Character, and I select Chaos Space Marines for my 0-2 unit.
C:E / CE; I choose a Harlequin Death Jester Commander, for 43pts (28 for Death Jester, 15 for X Commander).
It now has 2W and is an Independent Character, and I select Guardians / Wyches for my 0-2 unit.
CE: I choose a Grotesque Aberration Commander, with a Venom Blade for 65pts (45 for Aberration, 5 for upgrades, 15 for X Commander).
It now has 4W and is an Independent Character, and I select Kabalite Warriors for my 0-2 unit.
C:TE: I choose a Stealth Shas'vre Commander, with a Markerlight and Target Lock for 65pts (40 for Stealth Shas'vre, 10 for upgrades, 15 for X Commander).
It now has 2W and is an Independent Character, and I select Kroot Carnivores for my 0-2 unit.
Special Rules:
Fearless
Roundhouse
It Will Not Die
Shirt:
Provides a 2+ save and 2+ Invulnerable Save
Fists:
These are a CCW with the following profile:
Str-User, AP-1, Melee, Instant Death, Armourbane, Fleshbane. (Pwnage? - rules missing, also 'enroll wound or armour pen' is gibberish)
Roundhouse:
Once per turn he actual rules gibberish, deleted
Ok, so first, you missed its unit type.
Next, terribly written - some of it is just nonsense.
What's a Pwnage?
What's an enroll wound or armour pen? (reroll to wound and armour pen?)
I'm assuming your Roundhouse Rule is meant to nominate 1 model on the field, and remove it from the game.
I'd make it 1 model within 6", takes an auto-wound or auto-pen.
Artificer Armor
Iron Halo
Mark. 6 'Argo' Pattern Storm Bolter (gives +1 to BS (already in stats)
Signum
Xenos-Bane Power Sword (fleshbane and rending power sword)
Special Ammo
Sternguard may be taken as troop choices. in addition they may be given targeting scopes for 15 pts per model (firing scopes give +1 to BS and allows precision shots on a 4+.
"Sternguard veteran" title makes no sense, as Sternguard are vetrans themselves.
This guy looks like a glorified sergeant akin to FW Red Scorpion special sargeants, so who is he fluff-wise? Sternguard squad sarge?
And if anyone should move sterns to the troops, it must be 1-st company Captain - the ultimate boss of all chapter's Sternguards Vanguards and Terminators, not a lowly sarge, who shouldn't even be a HQ choice. So I can suggest him just to make his own sternie squad scoring.
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench
Falkus Kibre was Captain of the Justaerin during the Heresy, serving as Abaddon's Equerry and de-facto second in command of First Company. Currently, he serves as the chief of Abaddon's personal Terminator bodyguard, and is most often found spearheading his master's trademark teleportation assaults.
Codex: Chaos Space Marines- Black Legion supplement
190 points
Type: Infantry (character)
Composition: 1 (unique)
WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv2+
Wargear: twin-linked bolter, power fist
Justaerin armour: This is a set of Terminator armour that grants a 4+ invulnerable save.
Special Rules: Independent Character, Sworn Protector (Abaddon the Despoiler), Veterans of the Long War, Fearless
Master of the Justaerin: If Falkus Kibre is your Warlord, a single Terminator squad can be upgraded to Justaerin. They replace their Terminator armor with Justaerin armor for 10 points each. If Abaddon is taken as your Warlord and Falkus Kibre is also included in the same detachment, then as many units of Terminators as you want can take this upgrade.
Spearhead: Falkus Kibre and any unit he joins are Scoring, provided they Deep Strike into play.
Glory to the Twelfth! Glory to Angron!
"Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls. The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does. That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."
—Captain Khârn of the World Eaters Legion's 8th Assault Company, from his unpublished treatise The Eighteen Legions
CalasTyphon216 wrote: They replace their Terminator armor with Justaerin armor for 10 points each.
MoT have the same effect on the terminators and cost only 5 pts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/15 09:27:08
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench
CalasTyphon216 wrote: They replace their Terminator armor with Justaerin armor for 10 points each.
MoT have the same effect on the terminators and cost only 5 pts.
I costed it 10 points because you can STACK MoT on top of this for a 3+
Glory to the Twelfth! Glory to Angron!
"Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls. The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does. That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."
—Captain Khârn of the World Eaters Legion's 8th Assault Company, from his unpublished treatise The Eighteen Legions
CalasTyphon216 wrote: They replace their Terminator armor with Justaerin armor for 10 points each.
MoT have the same effect on the terminators and cost only 5 pts.
I costed it 10 points because you can STACK MoT on top of this for a 3+
Yeah, i know, and so with fists, Justaerin and MoT you get 8 pts over loyalist assault hammernator with all their AtKNF, Combat Squads, consussive hammers, chapter-specific rules and access to teleport beacons on pods/scouts for safe deep strikes with only combi-bolters as your only advantage. 4-5 pts is OK for 4++ if you plan to bolster it with MoT.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/15 10:43:42
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench
CalasTyphon216 wrote: They replace their Terminator armor with Justaerin armor for 10 points each.
MoT have the same effect on the terminators and cost only 5 pts.
I costed it 10 points because you can STACK MoT on top of this for a 3+
Yeah, i know, and so with fists, Justaerin and MoT you get 8 pts over loyalist assault hammernator with all their AtKNF, Combat Squads, consussive hammers, chapter-specific rules and access to teleport beacons on pods/scouts for safe deep strikes with only combi-bolters as your only advantage. 4-5 pts is OK for 4++ if you plan to bolster it with MoT.
I costed them higher because the idea is to run them Tzeentch or Nurgle, with Abaddon and Falkus, for a very expensive but ludicrously tough SCORING unit. THat gets Preferred enemy against space marines
Glory to the Twelfth! Glory to Angron!
"Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls. The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does. That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."
—Captain Khârn of the World Eaters Legion's 8th Assault Company, from his unpublished treatise The Eighteen Legions
Sorry, don't know how to use spoilers. Please read and give a points value on this guy.
His homeworld was attacked by 'nids and was saved by Space Marines. They now act as the Space Marine's Scout Company and are recon experts.
Major Hector Beckett
May replace Company Commander
Wargear: Polonia Pattern Bolter, The Twins, carapace armour, frag and krak grenades, melta bombs
Polonia Pattern Bolter: This is a boltgun made especially for Beckett upon the regiment's induction to the Death Angels Chapter. It is well suited to the regiment's clandestine missions.
Range: 24
S: 4
AP: 5
Special Rules: Heavy 2, Pinning
The Twins: These are a pair of deadly fangs wrenched from the maw of a Tyranid biocreature. They have served Beckett well, but still serve the Hive Mind.
Range: -
S: User
AP: 3
Special Rules: Melee, Poisoned (2+), Servants of the Hive Mind
Servants of the Hive Mind: If Major Beckett rolls a 1 to hit with the The Twins, he suffers a wound at AP3. Saves may be taken.
Special Rules: Last Officer, Commander of the 1st, Regiment Tactics, Hatred (Tyranids)
Last Officer: Major Beckett is the last surviving officer of the Polonian regiment. However, his men are highly drilled to react to his orders.
Major Beckett may issue up to three orders per turn with an 18" radius. He has access to all commands available to Company Commanders.
Commander of the 1st: The Polonian 1st do not have many men or armoured vehicles at their disposal, but have superior training and wargear.
In any detachment that includes Major Beckett, all Sentinel and Leman Russ squadrons are 0-1. Veteran Squads are 0-9. No other units apart from
The Company Command Squad Beckett was bought in
Veteran Squads
Sentinel squadrons
Valkyrie Assault Carrier squadrons
Vendetta Gunship squadrons
Leman Russ squadrons
may be taken.
Regimental Advisors and Chimeras may not be taken.
Additionally, all WS and BS profiles are increased to 4 in any detachment that includes Beckett. Veteran Squads or Beckett's command squad may take Valkyries or Vendettas as dedicated transports. They may also have the Deep Strike rule for 30 points.
Regiment Tactics: All units in the same detachment as Major Beckett have the Stealth, Move Through Cover and Scout rules. This includes Beckett and his command squad. In addition, any squads in Beckett's detachment entering play via Deep Strike may do so on the first turn.
CalasTyphon216 wrote: I costed them higher because the idea is to run them Tzeentch or Nurgle, with Abaddon and Falkus, for a very expensive but ludicrously tough SCORING unit. THat gets Preferred enemy against space marines
You already paying 55 extra points for the character who allow this.
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin, first champion of Tzeench
What's the general feel in terms of cost of Warlord traits? They seem built-in for most HQs, which would mean they don't generally raise the price of the HQ or characters, but I'm not sure.
@Sgt_Smudge: I think your "character" would be better off as a custom alternate IG armylist. No offense, but too many rules and too many non-character/unit changes.
Special Rules
Kommandoflage: When outflanking from reserves, Shin'Grak and his unit may enter from the border of the piece of terrain closest to the enemy board edge. His unit can also attempt a charge after coming in from reserve.
Backstab: Before blows are struck in any assault phase in which his unit has charged, Shin'grak may attempt a backstab attack. After passing an initiative test, Shin'grak forgoes all his normal attacks for a single attack that is AP2 and strikes at I10
Boss Brakk'skot Blad'masta
WS6 BS2 T5 W3 I4 A3 Ld9 Sv4+
'Eavy Armor, Stikk Bombs
Da Killa Klaive - A colossal, motorized, 'Uge Choppa containing a built-in kombi-skorcha
R18" S4 AP6 Assault2
R Template S4 AP5 Assault1, One Use
R- S+2 AP2 Melee, Two-handed, Jam
Jam - After using the melee profile, roll a d6. On a 1 something has jammed in teeth and chains and Da Killa Klaive is treated as a regular 'Uge Choppa for the remainder of the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/17 04:03:57
Strength 4 is ok, I will make that change, but the reason it can't be a large blast is because of his exarch power, fast shot. That gives him an extra shot with everything but flame templates, so instead of 1 large blast, its 2, which I thin is a bit 
Blood Ravens, 1700pts
Astra Militarum 2250pts
Khorne 750pts
Space Wolves 1550pts
