Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What's the one viable build?

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, they limited the army to 1 viable build, but at least they made it a fun and rather effective one

Really? Because I've played a lot more than one viable build out of the new WD dex.

There's immo spam. Walking sisters with Penitents. Mixed Mech. Allies bring in a ton of builds including Celes-Jaco-blob. Forgeworld brings in AV13 spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:
What's the one viable build?

He is ill informed.

I play heavy mech. Building a foot sisters list would require finding another army to buy! I have three PEs myself.

A guard blob with all those bonus, lol. I don't think it'd be effective, though.

 TheKbob wrote:
I play heavy mech. Building a foot sisters list would require finding another army to buy! I have three PEs myself.

A guard blob with all those bonus, lol. I don't think it'd be effective, though.

I have run guard blob with sisters, something like this was VERY effective:

Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Flamer, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Multi-Melta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors x6, 4 HB
Bastion with Quad-Gun
Primaris
PCS with 3 Flamers
4 x Infantry with Power Axe/MB, Autocannon
Vendetta
Manticore

Celestine, Primaris and Jacobus into the blob.

I was under the impression that the only noteworthy -pure- sisters army is celectin, 2-4 BSS, 2 exors, HB rets, and and mix of dominos/sephs. (number of BSS, dominos/sephs and what cars are around depends on point value)

 BoomWolf wrote:
I was under the impression that the only noteworthy -pure- sisters army is celectin, 2-4 BSS, 2 exors, HB rets, and and mix of dominos/sephs. (number of BSS, dominos/sephs and what cars are around depends on point value)

Well, -pure- now has three builds: Foot, Mech and Mixed Mech

As for 2-4 BSS that is just the way it goes.

The variants I see:
- Seraphim and Celestine.
- Mech with Doms and Exos
- Foot with Rets and Kyrinov
- Rets and Bastion

And, of course, Forgeworld just made AV13 spam possible.

The only 'required' units at this point are BSS. Other than that, you have 2-3 choices in every slot.

 pretre wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I play heavy mech. Building a foot sisters list would require finding another army to buy! I have three PEs myself.

A guard blob with all those bonus, lol. I don't think it'd be effective, though.

I have run guard blob with sisters, something like this was VERY effective:

Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Flamer, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Multi-Melta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors x6, 4 HB
Bastion with Quad-Gun
Primaris
PCS with 3 Flamers
4 x Infantry with Power Axe/MB, Autocannon
Vendetta
Manticore

Celestine, Primaris and Jacobus into the blob.

I fought this. It held up pretty well. MY St. Celestine just wouldn't wake up, which was pretty much the game right there, but it fights well.

And even though I've only got to try it against a fairly horrible Elysian List (7 flyers! 7!) so far,
Celestine+Seraphim,
3x 9 Repentia
2-4 BSS (w/ Heavy Bolter),
3x3 Penitent Engines
Has stood its own... and people I try to get a test game against it with seem scared to.

I've been toying with a similar idea. Does it preform well then? the repentia/penetint engine spam?

I really wish that there was a character that could make repentia troop choices. They're silly expensive for how fast they die and they become somewhat meaningless because they're elite.

Course i'd also like immolators to be fast or have torrent... and scouting penetent engines with AV13 in the front, but I don't like to be greedy.

war wrote:
I've been toying with a similar idea. Does it preform well then? the repentia/penetint engine spam?

I really wish that there was a character that could make repentia troop choices. They're silly expensive for how fast they die and they become somewhat meaningless because they're elite.

Course i'd also like immolators to be fast or have torrent... and scouting penetent engines with AV13 in the front, but I don't like to be greedy.

Considering it was facing a list where it couldn't hurt 7 of the units, it did pretty well.
The Repentia / Penitents just owned the field - nothing left, and even managed to take out 2 flyers.

On paper, Celestine + 5 Seraphim, 2 squads of Repentia and 3 units of Penitent Engines charging at the enemy is going to give something a headache, and dealing with 9 vehicles ramming down your throat isn't that easy either.
Then sitting the 2-4 BSS back / on objectives with 1 squad of Repentia (for counterassaulting / deterring deepstrikers / outflank), seems like a good plan.

So on paper, you have a solid core of objective holders with defenders, and you have 6 high priority threats coming at you to rape face.

I don't like the HB rets. They have never done enough for me and are too static. I run the HF rets and they have been doing rockstar for me and fits with an all in sisters list. This is my list soon:

Celestine

BSS (flamer, flamer, Rhino)
BSS (flamer, flamer, Rhino)

Dominion (melta, melta, combi-melta, TLMM Immolator)
Seraphim (2x Two Hand Flamers, 10 girls)
Seraphim (2x Two Hand Flamers, 5 girls)

2x Exorcist
Retributors (4x Heavy Flamer, Simalcrum, Rhino, 8 girls)

Company Command (4x Flamer)

Veterans (3x Melta, chimera)

Vendetta

Yeah, but how many points is that one squad of Rets?

A lot. Much better than a static unit and it's a great answer to terminators . I have never had the heavy bolters do anything significant outside man a pop gun on the sticks and slats. And I feel being static doesn't play well for sisters.

I guess the only thing I'd do differently would be three exorcists or two plus three PEs.

 TheKbob wrote:
A lot. Much better than a static unit and it's a great answer to terminators . I have never had the heavy bolters do anything significant outside man a pop gun on the sticks and slats. And I feel being static doesn't play well for sisters.

I guess the only thing I'd do differently would be three exorcists or two plus three PEs.

I used to love the Easy Bake oven, but it just isn't cost effective anymore.

Okay, so let's take a look at two units:
Retributors (4x Heavy Flamer, Simalcrum, Rhino, 8 girls) - 236

vs

Retributors (4x HB, Simulacrum) - 105 + Bastion with Quad (125) - 230

Yes, your squad works against Terms, if they get there and if they don't get popped. Let's say you get 4 hits a template. That's 16 hits. 8 Wounds and 2.66 Rends. You kill maybe 2-3 Terminators. Your squad had to disembark in front of them to fire all 4 templates. Ouch.

Now my squad. Let's assume I can only fire 2 extra heavy bolters. So I am firing 18 Heavy bolter shots. 12 Hit. 2 Rends. 6 Wounds. I kill, you guessed it, 2-3 terminators. I am safe in an AV14 bunker, and I have anti-flyer if I put another squad on the roof. Plus, the HB rets can threaten other targets at distance including flyers (albeit not well) and light vehicles.

Sure, you don't want to be static, but something has to guard your objective. You have the rest of the army to be aggressive.

edit: Also, if the HB rets fail their faith check (25% chance most of the time) they are okay. If the Flamer rets fail, they have just completely failed you for the battle since they don't generally live to get a second try.

I've had some success with HB Rets. The rending is sorta hit or miss, but it gives enough punch against vehicles at range that it can pay off in a fairly big way.

that and they can do all right against terminators from time to time. more shots at the enemy is always nice.

I haven't done the heavy flamer rets squad due to price tag and also if they lose their rhino they become far less useful. anything with a template weapon needs to be able to move 12' a turn to get decent shots as far as i'm concerned. That said, I like penitent engines for the amount of kill they can dish out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Your really quite taken with the bastion aren't you. Idk, it seems like a decent deal to some degree but have you ever been charged out of it or have it fall on your head?

One thing that makes me want to use the HF Rets more is the fact that there are more and more tau and eldar players now, with mostly worse than 3+ saves. The heavy flamer makes mince meat of them, especially when they are sticking behind terrain to take advantage of things such as jump-shoot-jump or run-and-shoot. If you are able to use the repressor then it makes the HF rets more useable as they are much more likely to get into range of what they want to kill. Moving flat out in the first turn their full distance and counting on their front AV13 to protect them, or intervening cover. Next turn you jump them forward another 6 inches, disembark full distance and flame what ever you want to.

I know this is very very expensive, - 7 x rets with 4x HF, and Repressor - 244pts. (No need for simulacrum, if you get rending its a bonus, but its not required at all)

But if you theme an army around it, it might work for instance:

Celestine
2 x 5 Repentia
2 x 10 BS with HB in rhino
3 x 7 man Rets with 4 x HF in Repressors
3 x 6 Seraphim with 2x2 Hand Flamers and Melta bombs
ADL - Naked (im sure i can find enough point for a quad gun)

About 1850 give or take 20 points. At 2k id add another BSS squad

The basic idea is run the Repressors Forward towards the enemy troops choices, or most concentrated group of infantry. Let the Repentia nick the rhinos of the BSS and run them directly behind the repressors.
The seraphims jump along beside them as well, going for another 1 or 2 enemy infantry choices.

The BSS sit back behind ADL and hold objectives and stay alive or ad fire support to anything in range.

Once into the enemy lines the HF, hand flamers and repressors can start burninating and the repentia can start popping any armour hanging around too.

Its a big gamble as you are just hoping the repressors dont get too screwed too early. Bright lances/dark lances will be a problem. But if you play it super aggressive then you hope that the sheer amount of targets that your enemy would need to kill will overwhelm them. All enemy troop choices would be in trouble just from the sheer amount of wounds you can dish at close range, and the lack of cover saves.

Its definitely not points efficient, but would be fun to play i reckon.

I think ill give it a go at the weekend and see what happens.

 scrunty wrote:

Its definitely not points efficient, but would be fun to play i reckon.

I think ill give it a go at the weekend and see what happens.

Fun? Cool. I just think that points efficiency is one of the things we have going for us.

I agree with you, hence Celestine and the Seraphim.

Im just looking at other ways of using them and the other units we have at our disposal in more useful/different ways. I know SoB are generally not seen that often but playing the same list over again and across every SoB list there is cannot be useful in the long run as people will know what to expect. Granted this may take some time, but with the groups i play with they are getting wise to the tricks the SoB can pull and therefore finding different ways to use them is always useful....

 scrunty wrote:
I agree with you, hence Celestine and the Seraphim.

Im just looking at other ways of using them and the other units we have at our disposal in more useful/different ways. I know SoB are generally not seen that often but playing the same list over again and across every SoB list there is cannot be useful in the long run as people will know what to expect. Granted this may take some time, but with the groups i play with they are getting wise to the tricks the SoB can pull and therefore finding different ways to use them is always useful....

I am not saying to play the same list again and again. I vocally post a number of different lists on here and other places. I just don't think playing the least efficient units is going to surprise anyone other than with how many points you put into an ineffective unit.

Well, speaking of different lists, I am trying to change things up. I am actually thinking of running this at the next 1850 list. Feedback is always welcome:

St. Celestine
BSS (Multi-melta, Flamer)
BSS (HB, Flamer)
Dominion (2MG, Combi-Plasma, TL MM Imm w/ SL)
Dominion (2MG, Combi-Plasma, TL MM Imm w/ SL)
Dominion (2MG, Plasma Pistol, TL MM Imm w/ SL)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
ADL w/ Quad Gun

Coteaz
3 Servitors w/ MM
6 Acolytes (3 plasma, 3 hot shot) w/ razorback (psybolt, storm bolter, SL)
Vindicare Assassin

Main reason I am taking coteaz is to help with flyers. Most smart players will just stay out of his threat bubble of I've been expecting you, but if I place it right, it could hopefully keep my exorcists protected for an extra turn. But, Coteaz would be on the quad-gun and I would fully abuse the heck out of his rule against the one list I currently despise (necron air force - fight cheese with cheese).

And, with it being an inquisitor themed list, it is still semi-fluffy.

While I do have 4 troops choices, my GK troops are flimsy at best. But, everything in this list has AP3 or better, so hopefully it is still killy.

I would swap the Aegis for a Bastion with Icarus to put Coteaz on top of. Then put Rets instead of a Exo inside. Also, why a PP?

Mostly that's just nit-picking though. Looks fun.

Plasma pistol is because I only have two combi-plasma's modelled.

I am pretty thin on points as it is, switching to a bastion would probably force me to scrap either a dominion squad or the acolytes (which could probably go). However, I REALLY wanted to be on the giving end of psybolt ammunition for a change.

Except for tournaments I have not played the same list twice with my sisters and my win/lose ratio is pretty solid.

My only auto include to data have been Celestine and 5-7 Seraphims as an escort unit, but after that I have always played different lists in one way or another.

I have been wanting to try Penitent Engine and Repentia spam, but only having two engines and them being, not only expensive, but a massive annoyance to build up, has deterred me so far.

Have anyone had any success with 9 Penitent Engines and 16-30 Repentias walking up? I would love to read a battle report with someone playing this.

Here's the list I would love to try for 1850 and you have spare points for gear upgrades

Celestine

3 x 7 Repentias squads

2 x 10 sisters of battle with repressors

1 x dominions in immolator

3 x 3 Penitent Engines


Very simple in your face list. Sisters lend their Repressors to two Reptentia squads that will flat out on turn one. Celestine accompanies last repentias to take shots for them. Anything that can ignore her armors gets LoS. Dominions scout forward.

The strategy is to hope to have your opponent shoot at the dominions, which are hopefully in cover, and you want this since they are a decoy. If not, then he will likely shoot at Celestine, if they know what she can do, and she will be doing her job as a decoy as well.

Turns 2 you should have nearly all your forces threatening to assault and once they do, it should be devastating enough.

I've tried that list, or near enough:
Celestine + Seraphim
2x BSS in Rhinos
2x 10 Repentia
3x3 Penitent Engines

Sadly, the PE and Repentia are just too fragile. it worked against some lists/with some terrain setups, but usually the penitent engines would get smacked quick by fire and the repentia would chew up some unit and then get shot.

Marines (with grenades and striking first) make the PE weep.

Heavy Flamer Retributors are very awesome.

Sometimes you don't want there to be any chance of survival. Period.

How many times in a game have you cursed to the gawdfs when your rolls to hit were...subpar? When you had a unit dead to rights but they just wouldn't go down with the number of shots?

Almost never a problem

with the easy bake over as you call it. You're catching 5-6 models in the teardrop, Four of them plus the Combi if you go that route. I mean that is a TON of HITS. And now its STR 5 and Rending? Oofta. Very scary indeed.

I use them to trail behind the rest of the force and they make GREAt goalies. People are so scared of getting hit with them that they wont dare break my lines until they are SURE the Retributors are done for and that takes effort since they are in a rhino til needed. Takes two or three rounds sometimes to kill em off and thats a lot of lost time.

The rest of the list ultimately determines if its a good or a bad thing to take them, but man... they are really really good at area denial and are not to be trifles with if you enjoy life.

The "problem" I have with the Easy-bake Oven is that for the same cost I could get two Exorcists. In most cases, I'd rather have the Exorcists over the HF Rets. Besides, that's what I have Doms and Seraphim for and they do a much better job of it point for point IMO.

well, preference is one thing, but utility another. My guess is if you could see into the future and know that your Exorcists would fire a mere 4 shots before being destroyed, whereas the late game flamination of the Retributers would reduce a pair of units to a pile of ash, you might well favor the Retributors. Of course, we can never know what the opponent or terrain will do to us, nor can we know how many shots the Exorcist will fire, nor how capable the enemy will be at silencing them. All we know is that in a list with X,Y and Z, the Heavy Flamers are devastatingly effective even IF the Exorcists would also be. So the question really is: do you play with X,Y and Z or not?

Effective? Yes, they damn well can be. Efficient? Not in my experience.

I don't think I like Rets in a rhino/repressor. Thats the job of Dom's in my book.

Actually, a unit of 10 doms with 4 flamers that are twin linked in a rhino/repressor would probably work better than the Ret mobile flamer squad. And they get to do it with scout/outflank.

210 for one and 180 for a min Ret HF squad... both in rhinos. Lots of bodies in the Dom's. I may have to do the Dom-flamer thing, thats actually pretty brutal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm wrong, its 190 for the Dom's. Forgot that flamers are cheaper than melta.

I need more Rhinos, but I'd like to try some more cheeky tactics. Should just call my immolators rhinos and go that route.

I had a knock down, drag out with Eldar at 1850. I went first, my Doms scouted and blew up a Fire Prism and wasted good portion of a jetbike squadron (along with my popgun and exorcists). Everything else went flatout towards his objective (Drawhammer).

I made armor saves like a boss... I still had all 4 meltas from my Doms and only lost one immolator and 2 rhinos. I tanked shocked his allied Tau broadsuits and they actually broke... not a good day. He got aggressive with his wraithknight, so I countered with Celestine and Seraphim, multiassaulted it and Warwalkers... Wraithknight died after two rounds of combat (no shield) and the warwalkers took a total of 4~5?

Game ended turn 6 with a tabling. I lost two immolators, two rhinos, and, for the first time, two exorcists. Everything else stuck around, including Easy Bake Oven™. The latter killed a Tau FW squad with Cadre Fireblade and a Farseer. They went on to off the retreating broadsides (they rallied turn 5... almost off the table).

My Doms melted the last warlock in his little hurt ball of bikes... the Warlord broke and was already on the back board edge... Was not a pretty game for him, sadly. Great sport, played to the bitter end. Great tournament player, but it seems like sisters always have the element of surprise...