[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors

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**Boss Salvage**

adamsouza wrote:
Looks at the 10+ Kings of War rulesbooks I've aquired over the last 2 months......

"YAY" a new rulebook that replaces all those...

I'm here for it. I unironically love giving Mantic money for books, as I really struggle to give them money for their minis

I'm also pumped to have a gamer edition rulebook - I picked the BGB up on release and can't be fethed to lug that thing around.

**lord_blackfang**

I'm guessing we'll be paying about double what we'd normally pay for a CoK anyway, and for that extra 15€-ish you get the convenience of having to carry 1 book rather than 2-3 (until CoK 2024). I'll take it any day. Plus I'm interested in what they do with the <1000 and >3000 games, even though the core game handles it just fine already.

**Boss Salvage**

The MEGA Dragon they showed as an example of the build-your-own-epic-units is pretty wild:

CS3 weakling

**lord_blackfang**

Finally something to do with the 12" base dragon I got with Bones 1

**kodos**

pre-order is 45€

I never had a gamers Edition and with post-pandemic traveling for gaming is back on I already thought about getting one

Meanwhile I was building a castle, just for fun because I always wanted to have one and it was planned to be just scenery for my table

So I guess I am the lucky one here as this is the book for me

**Sarouan**

We already had siege rules before.

A new book for the book lord. No background, because who cares about Mantica background.

I'm fine with staying with previous rules, since I don't care for KoW tournaments and whatever balancing they're trying to justify the new CoK each time. It's all UK centered now, anyway.

Fans will be fans, and I will keep pointing at their similarities with GW. They can keep trying to look different, but they were always the same.

**BobtheInquisitor**

The background as fleshed out in their novels is pretty good so far. I am still waiting for the RPG to hit retail at some point so I can dive deeply into the fluff.

**adamsouza**

Boss Salvage wrote:
adamsouza wrote:
Looks at the 10+ Kings of War rulesbooks I've aquired over the last 2 months......

"YAY" a new rulebook that replaces all those...
I'm here for it. I unironically love giving Mantic money for books, as I really struggle to give them money for their minis I'm also pumped to have a gamer edition rulebook - I picked the BGB up on release and can't be fethed to lug that thing around.

Honestly, I think the book is a great idea. Just sucks to that I didn't know about it a month ago.

Unrelated, looks like Twilight Kin
are getting a major rework

https://www.manticgames.com/news/evil-things-come-to-elves-that-wait-twilight-kin-kings-of-war/

TLDR Twilight Kin won't be in the new rulebook but will return Halfling style as a complete army with new models and rules for everything.

**Shadow Walker**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The background as fleshed out in their novels is pretty good so far. I am still waiting for the RPG to hit retail at some point so I can dive deeply into the fluff.

I would not hold much hope for that RPG. It looks like it is dead judging from the KS comments.

**Maccwar**

https://www.manticgames.com/news/more-big-news-kings-of-war-end-of-year-road-map/

So who had those new HIPS ogres down for a NOVEMBER release? Me neither.

Here's an un-posed one.

The plastic kits will cover warriors and chariots but the shooters will be resin upgrades.

We also have a brand new army set coming featuring Ogres vs Empire of dust which will include the new KoW rule book.

More news in the link above including about these:-

**warboss**

Are the new ogres mentioned a page or two back the ones that came in the recent halfling army release or were there others?

I do like the skeletal snake rider art.

**Boss Salvage**

Oooo proper Wyrmriders! Color me excited, they're just my type of unit - mediocre but functional, never seen on the table, and provide unlocks so you can base a dumb army around them - and Mantic has been doing work I like on the EOD line

New Ogre design is great, nicely matches the Vanguard heroes.

**Shadow Walker**

Wyrmriders are so cool!

**BobtheInquisitor**

Shadow Walker wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The background as fleshed out in their novels is pretty good so far. I am still waiting for the RPG to hit retail at some point so I can dive deeply into the fluff.

I would not hold much hope for that RPG. It looks like it is dead judging from the KS comments.

Well, crapbaskets.

Does anyone know which of the new books has the most new fluff? Or should I just wait for more novels?

**Sgt. Cortez**

Eilif wrote:
stonehorse wrote:

Fair enough.

Not so much a blog, but I can do a quick bullet point.

• Units combat effectiveness doesn't degrade as they take damage, a unit that has been heavily battered fights just as well as a fresh undamaged unit.

• Unit pivoting on a central point, while easier for game play does present some odd visuals... highlighted with Hordes of Cavalry. Horses would really struggle to move like that!

• Unit footprints mean that units are very inflexible. This can result in units not being able to engage an enemy unit that they could if the unit could slightly reform.

• Units live or die by the nerve roll, this is where the real 'damage' resides. Do 1 point of damage and roll very high and that can see a unit removed or wavering. The opposite is true do a phenomenal amount of damage and roll very poor the unit still remains, and may even be unfazed by your attack.

But the main issue is this:

• The game has zero player interaction, when it is your turn... it is your turn and your opponent may as well not be there. This makes combat a little bit dull. As there is no risk/reward, no uncertainty of how the combat is going to play out. In WFB for example combat was a back and forth thing, a charging unit wasn't guaranteed victory, it made the uncertainty of combat exciting.

KoW is good for tournament play I imagine, for Rank & File games I'm more a casual/narrative focused gamer.

Thanks for that. I appreciate the summary.

As It happens, I'm also a casual, narrative player, but I put a premium on ease and speed of play so that may account for much of what follows. By way of comparison, Song of Blades and Heroes and Dragon Rampant are my other fantasy gameswhich may help explain what why when it comes to big battles I embrace many of the aspects that you find unappealing.

Your points are mostly what I expected. The common -and completely valid- reasons Kings of War is not the flavor of game for many folks. Many of them are inherent to -or at least in service of- the rather single minded drive of the games authors towards quick play, streamlined rules and clarity which -as you rightly point out- does sacrifice flexibility and realism. One notable aspect that plays into several of your complaints is that, regardless of how the players base their miniatures, KoW is an element-based game system like HoTT or DBA with inflexible unit footprint sizes and no casualty removal.

I've already started how I haven't found the Nerve/Break test to feel overly swingy in practice. Further, I actually appreciate how it pushes damage and morale into one roll, but I can completely see how some good might not like it, especially since unit degradation has been almost completely removed from the game.

As for your main point, perhaps it's experiential, but the lack of interaction coming from a strict IGOUGO system just hasn't seemed like much of a drawback for myself and those who seen to enjoy the game. Admittedly, at our group we often have the owning player roll the nerve tests (which further speeds up play) but KoW is such a fast-playing game that between informing your opponent of your defense stat, answering other stat inquiries and planning your next moves, there just didn't seem to be an excessive amount of downtime for the non-active player.

Again, none of this to convince you that KOW is the game for you and the many other players who prefer more realism/interaction/reaction/flexibility/detail/etc. Just a little pushback to suggest that many folks don't find the points you raise to be a big deal and may even see them as positive features in as much as they streamline and simplify play.

Both opinions were interesting to read for me as I considered having a look at KoW. But it made me realize I'm very happy with Oathmark, maybe that's a game for stonehorse to look into? It seems to solve all the problems raised and is also very narrative focused, though people coming from Warhammer sometimes miss a couple of their beloved factions.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

from the sound of it the book isn't going to have fluff as thats going online

or did you mean the old ones? in which case i'd ask somebody else to chime in

**scarletsquig**

This is all pure awesome.

I want both Empire of Dust and Ogres, so the new starter with both *and* the new red BRB included is brilliant.

**BobtheInquisitor**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
from the sound of it the book isn't going to have fluff as thats going online

or did you mean the old ones? in which case i'd ask somebody else to chime in

Maybe someone can chime in. I put off buying any KOW books (other than the novels) because I was waiting for the RPG. If the RPG doesn’t happen, I’d like to know if there’s a book chock full of recent background material.

I haven’t been able to convince anyone to play the game KOW. Might be able to get my son to play Armada, if he gets tired of SOB and MTG.

**NinthMusketeer**

Snake riders could be cool but looking at the concept art and the current EoD models, I'm expecting Mantic to make another flop more than anything.

**DarkBlack**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
from the sound of it the book isn't going to have fluff as thats going online

or did you mean the old ones? in which case i'd ask somebody else to chime in

Maybe someone can chime in. I put off buying any KOW books (other than the novels) because I was waiting for the RPG. If the RPG doesn’t happen, I’d like to know if there’s a book chock full of recent background material.

I haven’t been able to convince anyone to play the game KOW. Might be able to get my son to play Armada, if he gets tired of SOB and MTG.

My understanding is that the lore will be released online, so it's probable you will not need to buy anything.

Failing that, the green 3rd edition rulebook is what you're looking for, it has loads of lore.
CoK 2022 has lore for the Halflings and Rift Forged orcs.

**Eilif**

The new Ogres look like a nice update. When it comes to Ogres though I'm partial to an Oldhammer aesthetic, so I think the upcoming Landschnekt style Ogres from WGF may be for me.

**McDougall Designs**

Can't wait to get that starter set in stock for the store.

**Sarouan**

New ogres look like upsized WoW orcs, with a mohawk.

I've seen better and...ah, true, it's Mantic Games we're talking about. Their miniatures are always average and 3d print market does way better for cheaper anyway.

Whatever. We'll judge by the price of their plastic boxes in the end, but I really don't expect anything much cheaper than current GW plastic ogres.

**kodos**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Maybe someone can chime in. I put off buying any KOW books (other than the novels) because I was waiting for the RPG. If the RPG doesn’t happen, I’d like to know if there’s a book chock full of recent background material.

the company making the RPG went out of business and Mantic cannot release anything they made until the case is closed
some people who were part of the team already working to get the material that was done together and try to make something from it

so there will be an RPG with additional background, it won't be that RPG from the KS and it will take some time

the current background from the KoW books will be available digital from Mantic, so there will be be a "book" full of recent background material

**warboss**

Eilif wrote:
The new Ogres look like a nice update. When it comes to Ogres though I'm partial to an Oldhammer aesthetic, so I think the upcoming Landschnekt style Ogres from WGF may be for me.

Can you post a link to the previews? I looked on their website/store and these came up but I'm not sure if they're the ones you're talking about.

https://www.warmongerminiatures.com/collections/great-orc-characters

edit: I did find these from a different company.

https://sunderedstudios.co.uk/products/heavy-armoured-ogre-landsknechts-4-models

**kodos**

WGA has those 2 sneak peaks:
https://xenforum.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/wargames-atlantic/aaql2ic.jpg
http://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/2022/09/wargames-atlantic-plastic-landsknecht.html

**bbb**

I really like the look of those ogres. Does anyone know the price and box contents?

**warboss**

kodos wrote:
WGA has those 2 sneak peaks:
https://xenforum.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/wargames-atlantic/aaql2ic.jpg
http://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/2022/09/wargames-atlantic-plastic-landsknecht.html

Thanks! Yeah, those look good for the theme.

**judgedoug**

warboss wrote:
Eilif wrote:
The new Ogres look like a nice update. When it comes to Ogres though I'm partial to an Oldhammer aesthetic, so I think the upcoming Landschnekt style Ogres from WGF may be for me.

Can you post a link to the previews? I looked on their website/store and these came up but I'm not sure if they're the ones you're talking about.

Eilif means Wargames Atlantic (wholly unrelated to WGF)

**Smokestack**

The new mantic ogres look good. I actually liked the old ogres. Despite the "this time we didnt skip leg day comment" I actually thought the leg design of the old ogres was fine. It definitely had its own style and kind of endeared me to them. In RPGs i actually used them as underfed ogres... but I do like the new ogres too.

The WGF ogres should be 12 to a box and from what was said the price should be the standard $36ish dollars.