[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors

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**Fenriswulf**

The ogre arms and hands aren't heroic scaled? They're massively out of proportion!

I originally went for Mantic stuff because they held their proportions well. For some reason they seem to have dropped all of that.

**Makaleth**

I'm not fussed with the Ogre hands... They are OGRES!!

Ogres have big and sometimes huge hands.

I really see this as a stylistic choice. Rather than just bad design

**Black Nexus**

even at Renedra prices of £40k/sprue. $60k stretch goal in a KS, job done.

because that isn't how it works. you've not counted sculpting, concepting, painting, kickstarter fees, any resining, amazon fees and the actual cost of the shot plus any other costs. Budgeting a kickstarter is a lot more complicated than a tool = x so the stretch must = x.

**Polonius**

I just saw the sketches for the two elf cavalry units. Looks great bu they sort of slid in that they are a 2014 release. Is that new? I'm waiting on them for my actual elf army that I ordered...

**judgedoug**

Polonius wrote:
I just saw the sketches for the two elf cavalry units. Looks great bu they sort of slid in that they are a 2014 release. Is that new? I'm waiting on them for my actual elf army that I ordered...

"Mantic Games: If you were a Kickstarter backer, you'll get them in your August shipment as a thank-you for helping us fund them

"

Everyone got their first shipment in August/September 2012. If you pledged for an army and didn't get it, something is very wrong.

**warboss**

Black Nexus wrote:
even at Renedra prices of £40k/sprue. $60k stretch goal in a KS, job done.

because that isn't how it works. you've not counted sculpting, concepting, painting, kickstarter fees, any resining, amazon fees and the actual cost of the shot plus any other costs. Budgeting a kickstarter is a lot more complicated than a tool = x so the stretch must = x.

Don't forget that we're talking about Mantic; with their recent struggles they should also factor in the cost of reconcepting, resculpting, and reshooting minis.

**scarletsquig**

Black Nexus wrote:
even at Renedra prices of £40k/sprue. $60k stretch goal in a KS, job done.

because that isn't how it works. you've not counted sculpting, concepting, painting, kickstarter fees, any resining, amazon fees and the actual cost of the shot plus any other costs. Budgeting a kickstarter is a lot more complicated than a tool = x so the stretch must = x.

It is the bulk of the expense, though. And using renedra is just an extremely expensive example.. wargames factory can do tools for $12k/sprue. Good ones, as well. Dreamforge managed over 20 sprues for $200k (this did include other financing though, so raise the estimate to $500k to be safe).

Also, all of the other things mentioned are expenses with restic as well, so if they are significantly large costs, then it makes all the more sense to spend good money on the tooling to make the effort worthwhile.

**Alpharius**

I hear they're a little backlogged at the moment though...

**scarletsquig**

True, pretty much every plastics tooling company in the market is bottlenecked to hell at the moment.. the main issue is simply that not enough of the many thousands of injection tooling companies out there are interested in supplying the wargames market (which is why I backed PDC as a UK-based injection tooling company kickstarter).

And some of the ones that do aren't necessarily all capable of, or interested in, delivering a quality product, as the chinese goblin sprue shows.

I can see why warlord are going in-house with their injection tooling, it's the only reliable way to make sure it gets done.

**RiTides**

scarletsquig wrote:
True, pretty much every plastics tooling company in the market is bottlenecked to hell at the moment.. the main issue is simply that not enough of the many thousands of injection tooling companies out there are interested in supplying the wargames market (which is why I backed PDC as a UK-based injection tooling company kickstarter).

Me, too

for the same reason!

**BobtheInquisitor**

scarletsquig wrote:

And some of the ones that do aren't necessarily all capable of, or interested in, delivering a quality product, as the chinese goblin sprue shows.

I thought that was Mantic's fault. Didn't they send a non-3-up master to the company to pantograph?

**judgedoug**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:

And some of the ones that do aren't necessarily all capable of, or interested in, delivering a quality product, as the chinese goblin sprue shows.

I thought that was Mantic's fault. Didn't they send a non-3-up master to the company to pantograph?

They shoulda pantographed and converted to CAD locally, cleaned it up, and send it to Wargames Factory.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I assume Wargames Factory is the Chinese company that Mantic is so careful not to mention. It's much easier to blame some Chinese company's shoddy craftsmanship for your screw-ups when nobody realizes that you are talking about the same company making amazing plastics for Wyrd and Dreamforge.

**pretre**

WGF is a US company, isn't it?

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

No WGF is now Chinese and has been for a while

Basically started out owned (at least in part) by Tony Reidy who's now running Defiance Games ended up owing money to a Chinese manufacturing partner/investor which it couldn't repay

So the Chinese company own the lot after a hostile takeover
sometime around late 2010/early 2011

here's a link to the winners version of events

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2011/03/29/45148/

**Bolognesus**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I assume Wargames Factory is the Chinese company that Mantic is so careful not to mention. It's much easier to blame some Chinese company's shoddy craftsmanship for your screw-ups when nobody realizes that you are talking about the same company making amazing plastics for Wyrd and Dreamforge.

except the entire sprue style is totally different from anything we've seen from WGF/Ghost and I've seen some dakkanaut with a professional history in plastics or somesuch state, a while ago, that the placement of vents/sprue-component connections/whatever (very much a decision made by the tooling company!) was done by a complete nincompoop. Sorry, doesn't sound like WGF/Wai Kee/anything associated with those, really.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I stand corrected. (I have never seen the plastic goblins in real life because I've never bought any due to their reputation.)

Now I wonder why Mantic tried to contract out plastic production to China without using WGF. Heck, maybe they should give a call to the US company that made the UAMC for Defiance, since they can't be too expensive if Reidy can afford them.

**judgedoug**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I stand corrected. (I have never seen the plastic goblins in real life because I've never bought any due to their reputation.)

Now I wonder why Mantic tried to contract out plastic production to China without using WGF. Heck, maybe they should give a call to the US company that made the UAMC for Defiance, since they can't be too expensive if Reidy can afford them.

Yeah. To be fair, the goblins aren't total garbage. I've painted over 200 of them. They would have been just fine for 20 years ago, and are great for boardgame quality (like, if there was another Battlemasters or something and Mantic goblins were in it). They're not worth more than like 20 cents apiece though, and they're great for a horde army, especially if you do what I did (mix Mantic's amazing metal goblin sculpts in the front ranks of all units, with the plastics filling out the remaining 80% of the unit)

What is a huge shame is that Mantic's goblin designs are brilliant, and much like their Orcs, are my favorite designs on the market (well, maybe tied with Tre Manor). If I was rich, I would give them 50 grand just to remake the goblin infantry sprue into a proper large format sprue (like their skellies and elves) with all weapon and command options.

**scarletsquig**

Cool little video of KoW minis being cast:

**decker_cky**

Next survey is out:

Basilean Elohi (Angels) - $25
Contains 6 models (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Men-at-Arms - $25
Contains 40 models (doubled up from 20). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Paladins - $25
Contains 20 models (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Paladin Knights (Cavalry) - $25
Contains 10 models (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Sisterhood Infantry - $25
Contains 20 models (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Sisterhood Lancers (Cavalry) - $25
Contains 10 models (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Ogre Warriors - $25
Contains 6 models (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Ogre Shooters - $25
Contains 6 models (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Abyssal Dwarf/Twilight Kin Gargoyles - $25
Contains 20 models (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Abyssal Dwarf Immortal Guard - $25
Contains 20 models (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Abyssal Dwarf Lesser Obsidian Golems - $25
Contains 6 models (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Dwarf Brock Riders - $25
Contains 10 models (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Elf Palace Guard - $25
Contains 20 models (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Elf Stormwind Cavalry - $25
Contains 10 models (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Fleabag Riders - $25
Contains 10 models (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Mincer - $25
Contains 2 models (doubled up from 1). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Orc Chariot/Fight Wagon - $25
Contains 2 Chariots or Fight Wagons (doubled up from 1). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Trolls - $25
Contains 6 models (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Twilight Kin Dark Knights - $25
Contains 10 models (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Undead Mummies - $25
Contains 20 models (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Undead Werewolves -$25
Contains 6 models (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Undead Army - $50
Contains 40 Skeletons, 20 Revenants, 20 Ghouls and 30 Zombies. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Elf Army - $50
Contains 30 Spearmen, 20 Bowmen, 20 Seaguard, 10 Scouts and 2 Bolt Throwers. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Orc Army - $50
Contains 30 Ax, 20 Greatax and 10 Gore Riders. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Dwarf Army - $50
Contains 40 Ironclad, 20 Ironwatch, 20 Shieldbreakers and 2 Ironbelcher Cannons. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Spitter Horde - $25
Contains 40 Hard plastic Goblins. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Undead Wraiths - $25
Contains 20 Plastic Wraiths. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Revenants Knights - $25
Contains 10 Revenant Knights. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Gore Riders - $25
Contains 10 Gore Riders. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Elf Seaguard Horde - $25
Contains 40 Hard Plastic Elf Seaguard. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Elf Spearmen Horde - $25
Contains 40 Hard Plastic Elf Spearmen. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Elf Bowmen Horde - $25
Contains 40 Elf Bowmen. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Elf Hails of Arrows - $20
Contains 20 Bowmen and 1 Bolt Thrower. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Elf Bolt Thrower Battery - $15
Contains 2 Elf Bolt Thrower. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Mantic Splat Dice Pack - $5
Pack of 10 White Dice with Black Mantic Logo. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Paint Set - $15
Contains 5 Goblin Spitters and Black, White, Brown, Green, Bone, Gold Paint. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Toyz in the Hood T-Shirt Bundle - $100
All 5 Toyz in the Hood T-shirts. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Toyz in the Hood "Friends" T-Shirt - $25
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Toyz in the Hood "Rollin'" T-Shirt - $25
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Toyz in the Hood "DIE!" T-Shirt - $25
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Toyz in the Hood "Stand-off'" T-Shirt - $25
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Toyz in the Hood "Lucky'" T-Shirt - $25
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Kings of War Digital Art Book -$5
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

The Basilean Legacy Book - $15
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Kings and Legends Book - $10
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Kickstarter Exclusive Undead Dog Handler - $5 (note that this model is included FREE in pledges of $100 and up)
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Limited Edition Undead Standard Bearer - $10 (note that this model is included FREE in pledges of $100 and up)
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Lady Ilona, Undead Vampiress - $10
Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Some nice additions available for various armies. I particularly like the army boosters (there's a few I'm considering).

I bet with the new ogre list they'll sell a lot of chariots and goblins.

**pretre**

I didn't get the survey yet. :( And no response to my e-mail to find out what the heck I'm still getting.

**bbb**

So, are those going to be retail prices, or just kickstarter survey prices?

**decker_cky**

bbb wrote:
So, are those going to be retail prices, or just kickstarter survey prices?

Kickstarter survey prices. At a quick comparison, it seems like it's roughly a pound to dollar conversion from the current UK prices on most existing items.

**Azazelx**

The Undead revenant Knights could be tempting. Still no pics of the Elf or Dark Elf cavalry?

**BobtheInquisitor**

If the elohi are the size of chaos warriers, does that mean Mantic will release a larger box (say, 6?) at retail? Or are they going with 3 large-human sized models for $20 while every other company around gives a better deal?

**Duncan_Idaho**

Got me some extra Ogres at that price.

**RiTides**

If anyone wanted to sell their items before selecting/receiving them, I would be interested in getting the 6 golems for $25 twice... so $50 for 12.

I'd be willing to pay slightly extra, plus shipping of course... PM me

**timetowaste85**

So, RITides, I take it you'd like me to add 12 golems onto my pledge for you?

**RiTides**

Yes! PM'ed

**porkuslime**

Has anyone gotten insight into the new Ogre army list in the upcoming book?

My main question is how it will stack or change from the Armies of Men ogre units.. point cost is not needed, but armament styles IS needed, as well as unit sizes..

Are we still looking at 1, 3 and 6 strong units?

Any new commander types?

I ask, mainly to know how to structure my WIP Ogre Army, and what I will need to figure out needs on.

-P