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Re the new KoW starter set - They say it's Undead v Dwarfs again. No problem there, I love these two factions.

My main concern is that they are the old Dwarf unit casts. They're really quite poor sculpts with very little in the way of variety.

I got Mhorgoth Rising for a very decent £29.99. Quite a bargain, so i can suck up some bad sculpts for that price!

Was any new Dwarf stuff added in the last KS? That could feature, I guess.

Undead are a no-brainer for any starter Mantic does, as they are quite possibly the best plastic Skellies/Zombies on the market, but for the opposition I think Dwarves are probably the safest bet. The Basaliens are poor or restic (which I don't mind, but many do), the Elves have a very Marmite aesthetic that might put of as many people as it draws in, and the Orcs (relative to the Dwarves) are don't mesh as well with GW/other not-GW stuff.

I wouldn't rule out a Nature vs Abyssals box once those are both out just to get both armies in the spotlight, though. What I'd really love to see is an Undead vs KoM with Perry HYW minis for the humans, but I doubt they'd do that, even though I believe Mantic have always used Perry stuff for their studio KoM force.

Dwarves got a metal Engineer model, I think that was all.

 Paradigm wrote:
Was any new Dwarf stuff added in the last KS? That could feature, I guess.

Undead are a no-brainer for any starter Mantic does, as they are quite possibly the best plastic Skellies/Zombies on the market, but for the opposition I think Dwarves are probably the safest bet. The Basaliens are poor or restic (which I don't mind, but many do), the Elves have a very Marmite aesthetic that might put of as many people as it draws in, and the Orcs (relative to the Dwarves) are don't mesh as well with GW/other not-GW stuff.

I wouldn't rule out a Nature vs Abyssals box once those are both out just to get both armies in the spotlight, though. What I'd really love to see is an Undead vs KoM with Perry HYW minis for the humans, but I doubt they'd do that, even though I believe Mantic have always used Perry stuff for their studio KoM force.

I know Mantic approached Perry to ask if they could make an "official" KoM force with their minis, including starter sets but the Perrys said no.

I wonder if that was before they officially left GW ?

in which case it might be worth Mantic asking again now the Perry's non-compete clause over fantasy will (hopefully) no longer apply

 Alex C wrote:
Dwarves got a metal Engineer model, I think that was all.

I love their metal Dwarf minis, and most of the newer stuff. They absolutely nail the aesthetic imho

 monders wrote:

 Alex C wrote:
Dwarves got a metal Engineer model, I think that was all.

I love their metal Dwarf minis, and most of the newer stuff. They absolutely nail the aesthetic imho

Yup, it's a cool design! I like that they have optional parts with their newer metal characters too. Makes avoiding duplicates easier!

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I wonder if that was before they officially left GW ?

in which case it might be worth Mantic asking again now the Perry's non-compete clause over fantasy will (hopefully) no longer apply

This was right after they left GW. Not sure if they might have had a non-compete for x months clause, but I got the impression that Perrys were just done with fantasy altogether and didn't want anything to do with it. I suggested Fireforge minis as an alternative but not heard anything since.

they probably had a 2 year non compete, Rick P did as well.

If it was post GW and they were interested (but blocked by contract) they'd have felt free to say 'we can't yet, but talk to us in X years if you still want to collaborate)

since they didn't as Daedleh says they're probably just done with fantasy (at least for the moment)

How seriously do they take the whole number of models is more important than the base size thing? I ask because if GW goes round base I'm heartily tempted to mount my models into appropriately sized MDF trays for regiments but making the base the right size leaves me with a 4 wide rank for basic infantry instead of 5. So a 20 man unit would actually be 16 etc.

Didn't use to think it was a problem but it does say in the rules now to try to keep it near the number they state.

 Hulksmash wrote:
How seriously do they take the whole number of models is more important than the base size thing? I ask because if GW goes round base I'm heartily tempted to mount my models into appropriately sized MDF trays for regiments but making the base the right size leaves me with a 4 wide rank for basic infantry instead of 5. So a 20 man unit would actually be 16 etc.

Didn't use to think it was a problem but it does say in the rules now to try to keep it near the number they state.

I would keep it close to the number you're trying to represent, e.g. I don't think anyone would mind 16 figures representing a 20-strong unit.

Hell, as long as the base size is correct it technically makes zero difference rules-wise.

 Hulksmash wrote:
How seriously do they take the whole number of models is more important than the base size thing? I ask because if GW goes round base I'm heartily tempted to mount my models into appropriately sized MDF trays for regiments but making the base the right size leaves me with a 4 wide rank for basic infantry instead of 5. So a 20 man unit would actually be 16 etc.

Didn't use to think it was a problem but it does say in the rules now to try to keep it near the number they state.

It doesn't matter for anything beyond aesthetics. Personally, I use 8-12 on 25mm rounds for a regiment of '20', and it would play exactly the same as someone representing the same unit with 20 actual minis.

That's pretty much what I thought. And I have a chunk of GW stuff and generally like the models more (Dwarves & Elves) so I was mostly wondering how serious they are.

Plus I like a little bit of extra space between my models and saving on painting 20% of a unit is huge when you're talking numbers for KoW. Calvary also looks nicer in like the WotR bases they used to have and it looks like 3 would be the equivalent of 5.

Yeah, one of the cool IMO things about block based games like this, Black Powder, etc. is you can actually play with movement trays all decked out with fancy writing.

Purists find it anathema but I can see fantasy generals standing around a table with wooden/metal rectangles/other shapes moving around as representations of their huge armies.

Mantic should approach Gripping Beast. Their plastic Vikings would work as infantry for a Northern Kingdom of Men army. There Arabs as a Middle Eastern army. Add Yetis, Genies, Camel artillery, Ice Giants etc

 RobertsMinis wrote:
Mantic should approach Gripping Beast. Their plastic Vikings would work as infantry for a Northern Kingdom of Men army. There Arabs as a Middle Eastern army. Add Yetis, Genies, Camel artillery, Ice Giants etc

They had Fireforge and WGF models in pictures in the KoW 1st edition hardback.

 RobertsMinis wrote:
Mantic should approach Gripping Beast. Their plastic Vikings would work as infantry for a Northern Kingdom of Men army. There Arabs as a Middle Eastern army. Add Yetis, Genies, Camel artillery, Ice Giants etc

Mantic already plans to do their own Norse and Middle Eastern themed human armies in the future, it was in the open day sessions on youtube, they'll only source minis from elsewhere for lines they never plan to make themselves, ie Kingdoms of Men

Why are they planning to do ranges that already exist in better-than-almost plastic? Why not something new and different?


Is Mantic some sort of Ewe Boll-style tax scam?

The not-GW and other official unofficial lists are going to be posted on the Mantic forums for playtesting on June 7th, but they aren't letting on what they all are yet

It won't be all of them - I think we're starting with two and building up from there.

If I had to bet, for timeliness and what fans would call for... Twilight Kin (remastered as not just "Elves but...."), and Lizardmen/Skaven?

Edit: You know what... i'll make my second guess purely Lizardmen. Skaven can already be easily counts-as'd using the Goblins list.

The Beta rules don't really have a suggested point value that I saw. What is the suggested point value for KoW in second edition?

Also I'll be looking forward to Skaven and Lizardmen as the hopefully first written WFB converted armies

 Hulksmash wrote:
The Beta rules don't really have a suggested point value that I saw. What is the suggested point value for KoW in second edition?

Also I'll be looking forward to Skaven and Lizardmen as the hopefully first written WFB converted armies

Six turns per player, 2000pts each, and roughly one-hour per player on a Chess-clock. Again, its all preference, but that seems to make for fun, fast, smooth tournament-style games.

I'd love to see a chaos one. With marks. Mark of rage, mark of lust, mark of plague, mark of magic/scheming/dark crystal skexis.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
The Beta rules don't really have a suggested point value that I saw. What is the suggested point value for KoW in second edition?

Also I'll be looking forward to Skaven and Lizardmen as the hopefully first written WFB converted armies

Six turns per player, 2000pts each, and roughly one-hour per player on a Chess-clock. Again, its all preference, but that seems to make for fun, fast, smooth tournament-style games.

My favorite is four players/two sides, 1,500 points per player, 45 minutes on the clock, shared by the two players on each side.

The Auld Grump

I'm saying Tomb Kings and Dark Elves.

Blue and dark green space Mariners .

 Hulksmash wrote:
That's pretty much what I thought. And I have a chunk of GW stuff and generally like the models more (Dwarves & Elves) so I was mostly wondering how serious they are.

Plus I like a little bit of extra space between my models and saving on painting 20% of a unit is huge when you're talking numbers for KoW. Calvary also looks nicer in like the WotR bases they used to have and it looks like 3 would be the equivalent of 5.

I've been using round bases for quite awhile now. 4 models makes a KoW unit of 5. 8 models makes a unit of 10 (it's a little extra-deep, but hey), 12 makes a regiment of 20, and 24 models for 40. Cavalry work well as 3 for 5, 6 (or 5) for 10. Lots of examples if you scroll through down on the link.
https://azazelx.wordpress.com/category/kings-of-war/

The Forest Shamblers are in the background of this image