[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors

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**mattjgilbert**

Why do you need to choose? Can't you do both?

**Relapse**

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mattjgilbert wrote:
Why do you need to choose? Can't you do both?

That's what I am doing. I played KoW for the first time last night and really like the system. AoS got me back into fantasy after a many years absence, but I also like how simply and cleanly KoW plays. I am going to be buying all the undead releases I've been passing on for 6 years because of both games.

**sukura636**

AlexHolker wrote:
Thunderfrog wrote:
Looking at the Lesser Abyssals, the whip things, and a few other entries, I am reminded greatly of the infernal army from Heroes of Might and Magic.

The Lesser Infernals and Succubi do remind me of Might & Magic Maniacs and Succubi. The Lesser Infernals still look pretty poor, though, and the Molochs are complete crap. I would have much preferred that the Succubi get an expansion sprue for Winged Succubi than the Lesser Infernal flamethrowers.

And it's fething stupid to put the complete rules behind two different paywalls - making it easy to argue that Mantic is being more money-grubbing than GW at the moment - instead of making it all available for free. The retailers want to sell books? Don't they want to sell the big, expensive monster kits that are unusable without an inclusive ruleset?

The amount that you go on about HP female troops, I'm surprised they aren't called the 'AlexHolkers'.

Having seen the models, I'm happy with the Molochs - they match the concept art; what was promised. I half agree on the Lesser Abyssal's faces, although I feel that's an aesthetic choice rather than a quality one.

Which two paywalls? BoW and?

**Da Boss**

I am pretty happy with the abyssals. The molochs look like the art, which is cool. The Lessers were always going to be marmite because they are so stylised. At first I didn't like them, but then I thought "heeey, they look like Diablo 2 imps!" and now I do.

The succubi are really nice though. Abyssals seem to be another hit for Mantic, similar to their Orc range. Solid stuff, if you like the style.

**lord_blackfang**

I like the Abyssals, they have some of the best gak-eating grins I've ever seen on an imp.

I also like the Molochs, they remind me of Hellboy. Kinda regretting I didn't order any.

I've been browsing the Reaper catalog and I think they sell pretty much everything in the Abyssal army list that Mantic doesn't already cover with HIPS. So this will be a very simple and cheap army to collect.

**NAVARRO**

mattjgilbert wrote:
Why do you need to choose? Can't you do both?

I think its more about being selective with the time I have available for these things than rather the fact that I have 2 viable options.

If I go mantic I will invest on more movement trays and min max units accordingly and get me some more square bases for my other armies etc... If I go GW its 100% skirmish so rebasing things and making models more dynamic etc will be a total different project.

**judgedoug**

NAVARRO wrote:
With that said I believe they should drop the flag that the rules are free and just sell the rulebooks instead, and get on with it.

This is a case where when you say "rules" you mean "army lists"? Right? I'm not trying to be a dick here, I've seen several misconceptions about this... the core rules are free and downloadable right now, it's just the army lists that are incomplete.

**RiTides**

Technically, to say that the "complete" core rules are free, and only the army lists are not, you'd also have to create a separate category for magic items... so you'd be saying the mechanics rules are free and complete, but magic items and army lists are not.

My only issue here is army lists are really critical for hooking people. It's awesome that they'll be going out to Kickstarter backers sooner rather than later, and maybe Mantic will not mind folks sharing them with friends who are interested. But not being able to hook people adding up a list for their fantasy armies is a drag - especially since the pdfs make it LOOK like the entires aren't even there (rather than something like "Abyssal Golems - see rulebook for full unit entry").

I think a good compromise could be just listing the point value, but not the stats, of the units they've left out. This lets people add up an army list, but still need the book for the full listing. It's also pretty much what Army Builder functioned as for people pointing out GW armies for a long time. Could someone suggest this to Mantic, maybe it's something they could accomodate...?

**judgedoug**

RiTides wrote:
Technically, to say that the "complete" core rules are free, and only the army lists are not, you'd also have to create a separate category for magic items... so you'd be saying the mechanics rules are free and complete, but magic items and army lists are not.

Righto, I'm not arguing that, I think the lists should be made free as before (though it took like 3 months after the rules pdf was released for free with KoWv1 before the army lists were posted). Though magic items, siege, campaigns, blah blah, were never posted for free for v1, that was always a rulebook thing.

**RiTides**

Makes sense

and I think we're all on the same page, hopefully Mantic gets on it! It also makes sense that the army lists weren't fully posted until after the retail release for V1, which is why I'm hoping they'll consider going for a compromise position of releasing abbreviated entries with point values and no stats, so people at least know those units exist!

Just saw another new "Why was X unit removed" thread in the Mantic section here, so that's still clearly a problem.

**Thraxas Of Turai**

Do those close to the situation, that are on the RC etc think that KOW 2.0 will be the rule set for a great deal of time to come? Or is it a case that any changes will be in the form of small errata rather than a move to a 3.0 rule book?

I assume that the extensive play testing has ruled out any major issues but I guess there is always a chance that something will pop up in the months to come.

**scarletsquig**

2nd edition should stick for a very long time, it was created 3 years after 1st edition due to the community feeling that 1st was imbalanced, turnout to tournaments was down as a result and something needed to be done.

2nd will see lots of expansions, there are at least 2-3 planned that I'm aware of, all of which will be major and include multiple new army lists.

It is going to end up as a very solid set of rules which should be able to last at least 5 years without needing an update.

**judgedoug**

What I personally am most disappointed about the PDF release is that the discussion is focused on the PDF release and not about "hey change X, Y, Z alters my tactics, but check this out, I think this will work, blah blah"

I wanna talk about the game itself :/

**Polonius**

judgedoug wrote:
What I personally am most disappointed about the PDF release is that the discussion is focused on the PDF release and not about "hey change X, Y, Z alters my tactics, but check this out, I think this will work, blah blah"

I wanna talk about the game itself :/

did the core rules change enough to alter tactics?

I too am upset about not having the 2nd edition army lists for army building purposes...

**Red Viper**

Aren't the google doc lists fine to use? I believe those had all the units. I really like them since I make my army lists in google doc or excel anyway.

Also, sorry if it's been mentioned elsewhere... what is the exact release date for the Rulebook?

**judgedoug**

Just got my full Kings of War 2nd edition PDF!

**timetowaste85**

Full rules just went up for backers. Pdf download from wargame vault.

**DaveC**

KS backers have just been sent a private message through KS with a link to the full rulebook (102 pages) - I just downloaded it it's complete and has all the full army lists.

EDIT and an update from Ronnie himself

Dear Backer,

First, let me apologize. I am really sorry that we were didn’t get you the complete rules PDF last week as we promised we would. The intention was that you’d get these before the online rules or the starter list for the Forces of the Abyss were released. We wanted to get you the rules first.

And that was the plan, but just after the rules had gone to print…

…Nick Williams, one of the members on the rules committee, noticed an omission in the print file. These are the hardest type of errors to find but once spotted we immediately updated the final copy, and checked it once more. However, the result was we spent some time updating the rulebook at the end of last week when we want to prepare your PDF copies. The good news is we worked the weekend and here they are!

So, apologies for being late, not communicating properly and thank you for your support and patience.

If you want to stop reading now and just want the rules, here’s where they are….

We have sent you the download link in a private Kickstarter message. It may take up to 24 hours for the link to come through.

This is the completed version of the rulebook, full of background, photography, art, the rules and all eleven complete army lists, including the complete Forces of the Abyss army and the new Forces of Nature army list which has not been released anywhere else. We hope you enjoy them.

Ok, if you are still reading we guess you want to hear some more…

Keeping In Touch

As a principle, we try to update once a month to give an idea of what’s going on with the project, the important messages and the latest inside info.

We are now approaching the point where we start to ship the Kings of War Kickstarter - after the quality changes we made to the book we are on target to begin shipping the week commencing 27th July. Towards the end of this month we start seeing more and more final sculpts and plastic sprues being finished - so we are going to be moving to an update at least once a week.

The next update will introduce Kings of War Kickstarter Mission Control – a project tracker so that you can join us on the last leg of the journey. It’ll break down the project by component, provide an estimation of when it’ll be completed and when it’ll ship.

We’ll also look at more of the new sculpts and figures that are coming out, including the Greater Obsidian Golem, Ogre Warlock, Berserker Braves and Orc War Drum and crew. We’ve also had photos of the first hard plastic miniatures back from the manufacturer – these models are the first test shots from the mold. There are a few improvements we still want to see, but I hope you like them.

Although we are getting ready to ship we will also keep working on a few of the other projects that came out of the kickstarter:

- Work is underway building the global campaign – currently planned for the first half of 2016 – where every battle will count to changing a part of Mantica.

- We are building a Kings of War Website – dedicated to all things KoW

- That will link to a Kings of War Rankings site – so you can log your result and become the best KoW player in the world!!! - or at least your town

- We have begun work on The Kings of War App – which will have an army selection tool so you can build you army without pen and paper!

And we are even working on a few things for after the KS – such as a crossover army book, that will allow people with existing non-mantic armies the chance to play.

Over the last few weeks we have seen a huge surge in the interest for Kings of War as it becomes the only truly mass battle unit based fantasy game on the market. Last week Rick Priestley (who designed the original Warhammer game) wrote the foreword to our rulebook. How cool is that?

Yet if it had not been for your belief and support via the KS for the game none of this would be happening. We have taken the funds you sent us and developed a fantastic new rules set (with much help from the rules committee), we have new plastic sets on the way, two new armies – and many new resin and metal kits. We have beginner rules on the site already and lots of great stories planned to bring people in to the game. It is because of your support that all this is happening – and I hope we are on the brink of seeing KoW becoming a truly global phenomenon. It deserves to be, even if it is just because of all the passion you have shown for it!

If you live in the UK we will be holding a new-format Open Day at Mantic HQ in Nottingham on the 21st November. All activities will be themed around Kings of War (or DreadBall) and there will also be a painting competition. We will have more information on this soon, but we’d love to see us if you can join us.

And if you are going to Gencon then please come by the booth 1637 or join us at Colt Grill Saturday night from 8pm, where we will be playing games and hanging out.

Thanks for reading. Please enjoy the rules and apologies once again we didn’t get you these when we should have

Best wishes

Ronnie

**RiTides**

Well, that's solid of them certainly

(although still think they should do something to indicate that all the units are available, just not showing the full stats, for non-backers looking through the army lists online). Very good turnaround on releasing that pdf after the kerfuffle on Friday!

**Theophony**

also Rich apologized in the Kickstarter thread for the misunderstanding about the Renaldo the Bard figure. It IS a freebie as per the kickstarter update and no more issues there.

**Hulksmash**

Well, they didn't re-open the pledge manager but at least the $1 I'd originally given them in anticipation got me the full pdf. Yay!

**MasterSlowPoke**

Is using "treble" as a verb common in the UK? It always sounds wrong to me.

**Polonius**

Hulksmash wrote:
Well, they didn't re-open the pledge manager but at least the $1 I'd originally given them in anticipation got me the full pdf. Yay!

that's downright bizarre...

**NobodyXY**

TheAuldGrump wrote:
highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Well look what showed up in my inbox...
-snip-
For some reason, I want to do a model of a dwarf bro-fisting with the greater obsidian golem....

The Auld Grump

**Daedleh**

MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Is using "treble" as a verb common in the UK? It always sounds wrong to me.

It's not commonly used, but it's not incorrect either...

**RiTides**

Typo in the foreword by Rick Priestly, spelled a word "focussed" (unless that's how it is across the pond!).

If an author sends it to you that way are you beholden to keep it

**mattjgilbert**

Still not got mine yet :(

**highlord tamburlaine**

There's a shot in there of all sorts of random Nature beasts- looks like an old WotC shambling mound, wolves, an owlbear, an angry bear... where did all these come from? Are any of those actual Mantic figures?

I think that book has the first painted Naiads and Salamanders too. Didn't see any greater earth elementals though.

Will dig through the rules further when I'm not stuck on the phone.

**primalexile**

I am at the 1.00 pledge was waiting to see Infernals and Nature before buying into both, but I still got the full rulebook so I suppose it is 1.00 well spent. I am thinking instead of buying into Mantics armies purchasing Shieldwolf, they have their Orc bundle on sale.

40 Mountain Orc Infantry,
1 Mountain Orc Hero_A with 2-handed weapon,
1 Mountain Orc Hero_B with 2nd hand weapon,
1 Mountain Orc Shaman,
1 Mountain Orc Army Banner Bearer,
2 Mountain Orc Boar Chariots,
2 Mountain Orc Great Wolf Chariots.

I am thinking this would make a great KOW force.

**RiTides**

The rulebook is beautiful and I am really glad that I purchased the physical book - will be totally worth it! Now that this is released to backers, folks can at least definitely clear up any questions newcomers had, so that is also great