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There was no belittling going on there.

Shadespire will be long dead before Vanguard is released, lol

I'll beg to differ.
Still, I'd rather not have a large argument about it with people such as yourself who are otherwise uninvolved deciding to interject themselves into that discussion.

 NTRabbit wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Aussies are about to be hit by import duty changes (1 July 2018) though no-one knows how it will work yet, but getting taxed on shipping costs seems likely. It's not worth backing any kickstarters that aren't shipping from local hubs anymore.

It starts with Gerry Harvey being fed into a wood chipper with "Penalty Rater" painted on the side, the cheers of the masses still not loud enough to drown out his whining

I think we're in full agreement on this one. Bring on Amazon!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Shadespire will be long dead before Vanguard is released, lol

It seems like Shadespire may well be fully established when Vanguard gets released. Unless you're being snarky about Vanguard's likely time to be on shelves? Either way, both games look good, but they look to be in different subgenres with only small(ish) model counts as their main aspectin common.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Shadespire will be long dead before Vanguard is released, lol

Oh look, it's lord_blackfang, writer of such fantastic Shadespire posts as

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I find that the how AOS and things based on AOS are treated and received much more warmly over in the UK than they are in the States...

Well, Stockholm syndrome for GW would obviously be much stronger in the UK.

Sounds like this is another one of those mediocre games that will be played only by people who only play GW games just because they are GW games and actively ignore the existence of anything else.

Maybe at least keep your Shadespire/GW trolling to actual Shadespire threads? Or better yet just stop doing it entirely.

Given Mantic's propensity for blowing through delivery times and GW's approach of 'meh, screw it' support for their niche games he could well be onto something.

 Mymearan wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Shadespire will be long dead before Vanguard is released, lol

Oh look, it's lord_blackfang, writer of such fantastic Shadespire posts as

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 auticus wrote:
I find that the how AOS and things based on AOS are treated and received much more warmly over in the UK than they are in the States...

Well, Stockholm syndrome for GW would obviously be much stronger in the UK.

Sounds like this is another one of those mediocre games that will be played only by people who only play GW games just because they are GW games and actively ignore the existence of anything else.

Maybe at least keep your Shadespire/GW trolling to actual Shadespire threads? Or better yet just stop doing it entirely.

Wow kid, are you for real? Put me on ignore if you want, but you don't get to tell me what opinions I am allowed to have and where I am allowed to post them.

Rule #2 of Dakka is stay on topic, and we've strayed far from that here...

No more sniping about other posters, and particularly no more discussion of Shadespire in this thread, please. Valid comparisons and discussion would have been great, but that's not what we're getting here. If someone truly does want to compare the two in a meaningful way, please start a thread in Dakka Discussions and link to it here.

Back on topic to Mantic and their new Vanguard game upcoming... thanks all.

 Azazelx wrote:
Any idea where we can find instructions so I can spend my time QAing their product again? My sets didn't come with any.

No dice on directions, but the USLAE blog did a solid review of the Tunnel Runner here. Fun fact, this assault monowheel is probably my favorite mini Mantic has done - ok, second after Ektar I'm a huge fan of the design, many schemes around great gobs of monowheels cruising about. Happy to hear the cast / material came out well.

More OT, Northern Alliance seems cool to me, in a weird Forces of Nature mishmash sort of way.

- Salvage

MattG said on a podcast that the intent is for PVC plastic for the box contents miniatures, but no official word on the materials for bonus stuff or extras.

I'm pledging a $1 on this to wait and see. Whether I go bigger depends on my impression of Star Saga, and also how they treat retail. To explain why, if anyone is interested...

I was bummed by the poor quality of the rules writing and execrable proof-reading with DS. The components were nice, but the quality of the rules was lacking - to the extent that despite buying everything, I played through the base set once with a mate and put it back on the shelf and have not touched it again. Such a shame for such a beautiful product. I know others have really enjoyed the game, however, so quite prepared to say YMMV.

This led me to question the quality of Mantic, and specifically Jake's rules writing, and more specifically lack of attention to detail. I pledged for rules-only for Deadzone 2 and Warpath as while the premise for the games interested me, I didn't want to go big on armies until I saw the quality of the rules.

Deadzone 2 was a mixed blessing in this regard. The base game was excellent and picked up where Jake dropped the ball with version 1, but there was still a huge amount of evidence that the game, particularly the points values and special rules for the individual factions, really hadn't been adequately playtested, despite having a considerable period of time to do so. The sheer length of the Errata (n.b. Errata, not FAQ, although that was long too!) that was finally issued, and is still not fully complete (Veermyn, I'm looking at you!) So some lessons had been learned, but not all.

I bought the Warpath rulebooks only, but to be honest, nothing against the game itself, but the buzz completely died for me by the time the kickstarter finally delivered. The game may be great but I personally have lost interest in a new large-scale sci-fi wargame. In the intervening period while waiting for delivery I had picked up Beyond the Gates of Antares, and that is scratching the itch.

But I was convinced from what I read on the Mantic forums that the lessons had been learned with DS to the extent that a sci-fi version may have been adequately playtested and proofread this time, so I went for it and bought the base game. I didn't go big, but I did get the base game and a few extras. Matt Gilbert taking a Quality Control role at Mantic also helped me take the risk.

However another factor in deciding not to go big at the KS stage was that Dungeon Saga and Deadzone both ended up being for sale at retail at virtually the same price (and often even cheaper via discounters) than what I had paid at KS all that time before. Plus the final retail offer was actually often better quality (remember those book boxes?!).

So if the same happens with Star Saga, then I am completely out for Mantic Kickstarters. The combination of KS fatique - (seriously, no buzz lasts a year before delivery) and the lack of any real discount over retail mean there is no incentive.

I mean I get KS is not just a discounted pre-order system, but is about helping small businesses launch new products. And that is fine. But a) Mantic is a business not a charity, so why should I do that for free? and b) there are a gazillion really good games out there now competing, the last thing I need is yet another one competing for my time and money.

So we'll see. I like the premise - fantasy skirmish games are fun, But I already own and play several. I do like and play Kings of Watr though, so a game that will add into the fun of that sounds like enough of an extra USP to maybe be worth it. However, how they treat retail vs. Kickstarter with the release of Star Saga will make the difference with whether I pledge now, or just wait a year and get it at retail.

I'm definitely interested. The core rules feel solid, although there are areas that need to be improved. I'm not a fan of critical hits (or rather not in the current form) but that seems a designing trend these days.

That's 5am Friday est for Australians.

The problems I have with mantic kickstarters are that there is very little information on what are suitable forces for a basic game. What is planned to come in the box, what forces are the minimum needed.

It's hard to judge what the sweet spot is, how much do you really need. Of course, Mantic will tell you that all in gives you best value for your money.

It made me drop out of the Mars attacks game, and later buy it (and a few items) at retail.

With Deadzone 2 I dropped to only a terrain pledge (which Mantic screwed up) -- and Mantic did change the contents of the box from the kickstarter to the retail version.

That said I was very happy with the basic pledge of The Walking Dead, and I hear those that got their full pledges were happy when they got them (there was some delays).

So in short, I will be watching this one. Be aware that mantic will steadily beef up the pledges to get more people to raise their pledges. My advice is either go all in from the start or just come in late and see how it fares.

Miniature-wise I'm hoping for some "totally-not-maruaders" miniatures for the northern alliance and a strong showing for the nightstalkers, Love me some chaos proxies

 ulgurstasta wrote:
Miniature-wise I'm hoping for some "totally-not-maruaders" miniatures for the northern alliance and a strong showing for the nightstalkers, Love me some chaos proxies

I doubt Mantic will make spiky He-mans. If you want reasonable northern raiders, Frostgrave already has you covered.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 ulgurstasta wrote:
Miniature-wise I'm hoping for some "totally-not-maruaders" miniatures for the northern alliance and a strong showing for the nightstalkers, Love me some chaos proxies

I doubt Mantic will make spiky He-mans. If you want reasonable northern raiders, Frostgrave already has you covered.

Frostgrave only has you covered as long as you like your barbarians to look small compared to all your other miniatures!

I'm frantically refreshing only to then find out the clocks changed in the UK but not in the US yet...

2pm EST for US folks!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-vanguard-the-fantasy-skirmish-wargame

Only a single pledge level.
I think wargaming kickstarters have finally grown up.

Well that's a boring Kickstarter.

RoninXiC wrote:
Only a single pledge level.
I think wargaming kickstarters have finally grown up.

It also doesn't have an artificially low funding goal, maybe we'll see a reduction in fake stretch goals as well.

Looks pretty cool. Although I think the Nightstalker stuff is much better than the Basilean. Only really dig the Abess ...

In for now. I really hope those Scarecrows unlock early.

I like the terrain and objectives that are included but I’m a bit disappointed in the number of duplicate models in the war bands.

Prestor Jon wrote:
I like the terrain and objectives that are included but I’m a bit disappointed in the number of duplicate models in the war bands.

Mantic rep hinted "it's early days", so I expect we'll see an alt-sculpt SG.

Mutter wrote:
Looks pretty cool. Although I think the Nightstalker stuff is much better than the Basilean. Only really dig the Abess ...

I'm surprised the Nightstalker stuff looks good, to be honest (or at least the 3d renders do).
The Basileans at least look better than the absolute dogcrap that the KoW lines for them do.

I might pick up some of this once it actually becomes available in stores (in the US). Which isn't something I say about Mantic stuff often.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
I like the terrain and objectives that are included but I’m a bit disappointed in the number of duplicate models in the war bands.

Mantic rep hinted "it's early days", so I expect we'll see an alt-sculpt SG.

That would be nice. I wouldn’t mind duplicates of troops that could function in small units but I’ll probably pledge for the Nightstalker war and and seeing 2 of the same ogre sized dude was a letdown.

I really want two of the war bands rather than the base game in the only pledge. And $45 seems pretty high for the number of minis, although I expect stretch goals to ameliorate that quite a bit.


I love that the Basileans look so pumped over how awesome they are. That kind of enthusiasm is infectious.

lord_blackfang wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:
Only a single pledge level.
I think wargaming kickstarters have finally grown up.

It also doesn't have an artificially low funding goal, maybe we'll see a reduction in fake stretch goals as well.

Prestor Jon wrote:I like the terrain and objectives that are included but I’m a bit disappointed in the number of duplicate models in the war bands.

Nostromodamus wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
I like the terrain and objectives that are included but I’m a bit disappointed in the number of duplicate models in the war bands.

Mantic rep hinted "it's early days", so I expect we'll see an alt-sculpt SG.

Ha!

Also, I want to believe:



But what will the 'production miniature' look like?