Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tonhel wrote:

It's not a game intended to play solo, so everything to have two people to start playing should have been included in the base set.

Honestly, for a project of this type, three pledge levels would have made sense:

2P starter including rules & a token amount of terrain (BEST VALUE) .pdf rules included.
1P starter including rules/dice/tokens - choosing one predetermined "gang" box. No swapsies for individual models, etc. No terrain.

Barebones rules/dice/tokens pledge. I can see the logic in not including this one from Day1 though, as you want to encourage the larger pledges initially.
Maybe a fourth, with just the pdf rules. Again, introduce that one later.

1 player versus 2 player starters seems like too much of a situational thing to determine either way.


Their viability would pretty much depend on, I think, what the shape of your local community is. For example, Dropfleet Commander is starting to pick up in my local are, and that would have been dead on arrival if there was only single player options. Instead the 2 player set let me demo the game to one of the guys at my club, who is a bit of a community influencer and the game is now picking up.

And yet, for years and years previously, buying 2 player starters for some games have felt like a waste for me. Because there already was a community there.

It's too situational.

As for the impact on a kickstarter. I don't think multiple pledge levels are a problem. Pledge levels with options, or add-ons seem more of a problem. Do 200 of X, and 300 of Y might take more time than doing 500 of Z, sure. But what will take a lot longer is, "do 100 of X, with B, 25 of X with C, 75 of x with D. Oh and 299 of Y with E, but 1 of Y with F... But our minimum order is 25, so err... There's that..."

As an expert armchair wargaming business dude both the problem and solution us obvious. Mantic should have done a kickstarter fot just the rulebook and done the minis as stretch goals. Or maybe mantic should just have released the rules directly to retail and then done a kickstarter for the new Hard plastic basileans and gribblies. New resin heroes could have gone directly to retail as well. As several others have pointed out, what does this offer that you can not get from shadespire or frostgrave without waiting a year?

That said, I still pledged for a rule book. The alpha rules look solid and Mantic can make good games. They still need better art direction fot their miniatures though.

 Necros wrote:
I kinda feel like they should have done it more like a small campaign for just the printed rulebook with a PDF version free forever, and then had rules for making warbands out of all of the Kings of War factions where the idea is you use models from your KOW armies to build your warbands, rather than separate warband sets for Vanguard.

Mo' Models, Mo' Money, I guess...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Do you think $130 is a competitive price for a 'standard' starter set? Honestly asking, because I know my own perceptions are locked in an old man grumpus version of c2000 pricing. To me, that feels like an instant no deal.
I'll be spending 40 bucks on the hard plastics for sure. I still want those Basilean characters...although I don't want to spend $85 because there is no $45 option.
The $85 two player starter is a no go for me because they dropped the most exciting minis from each faction. I guess I'm a bad gamer, but I just don't value the rules at all.

I know you're asking Doug, but that pricing is mental compared to the competition in HIPS, available both now and also what's going to be available in about three weeks. Oddly in comparison to yourself, I'm more interested in the rules than any of the models. Mantic's non-metal models don't hold a lot of intrinsic value to me as the best they've achieved has been "decent" to "pretty good" (and consistently improving) by my own standards. They're certainly no Putrid Blightkings, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tonhel wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
They’ll make it, but when start ups break their funding goals in 24 hours or less and seam to be more with it from the get go with their KS it really is a bad show from an experienced group.

Not necessarily. The goal is to fund the rulebooks and tooling for the base game. You start blasting through funding goals and that creates more problems. People want more stuff, people complain when that stuff isn't free. Deadlines get pushed back(cure more complaining), shipping gets pushed up (yet more complaining), and if the company has other lines and games to serve - like mantic - that's all additional time taken away from those games.

Success is funding the project. More can be nice, but not always.

Tell that to the recent Shieldwolf and TMS miniature kickstarters. Both funded succesfully, but still the creators cancelled it before the kickstarter ended. I don't think "just" funding is something Mantic will be happy with.

I don't think they'll be happy. They no doubt plan for a certain funding range, and that in no way is in the realm of "barely funded". If it were to barely fund, or fun for a bit over (say $100k) I do not believe that Mantic would cancel the project, though. They're much more mature as Project Creators to do something like that. I think it'll likely do well enough over $100k, but it's clearly underperforming by Mantic's own metrics since their first stretch goal is now being given away for "free" as a "funding goal" to get the thing moving...

Azazelx makes strong points about the models. Yes, Mantic is improving. But Necromunda pre-orders are up next weekend and I don't need to wait for GW to improve LOL. The value of that set won't depend on how many other people pre-order it, either.

Yeah, I can't see the argument that this has value. Unless you really place high value on the included terrain. When you can get Necromunda for less money, with the same number of figures but in multi-part hard plastic instead of PVC, also including terrain, rulebook, dice, etc... And obviously style is subjective, but I don't think anyone could argue that GWs miniatures aren't better.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Necros wrote:
I kinda feel like they should have done it more like a small campaign for just the printed rulebook with a PDF version free forever, and then had rules for making warbands out of all of the Kings of War factions where the idea is you use models from your KOW armies to build your warbands, rather than separate warband sets for Vanguard.

Mo' Models, Mo' Money, I guess...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Do you think $130 is a competitive price for a 'standard' starter set? Honestly asking, because I know my own perceptions are locked in an old man grumpus version of c2000 pricing. To me, that feels like an instant no deal.
I'll be spending 40 bucks on the hard plastics for sure. I still want those Basilean characters...although I don't want to spend $85 because there is no $45 option.
The $85 two player starter is a no go for me because they dropped the most exciting minis from each faction. I guess I'm a bad gamer, but I just don't value the rules at all.

I know you're asking Doug, but that pricing is mental compared to the competition in HIPS, available both now and also what's going to be available in about three weeks. Oddly in comparison to yourself, I'm more interested in the rules than any of the models. Mantic's non-metal models don't hold a lot of intrinsic value to me as the best they've achieved has been "decent" to "pretty good" (and consistently improving) by my own standards. They're certainly no Putrid Blightkings, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tonhel wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
They’ll make it, but when start ups break their funding goals in 24 hours or less and seam to be more with it from the get go with their KS it really is a bad show from an experienced group.

Not necessarily. The goal is to fund the rulebooks and tooling for the base game. You start blasting through funding goals and that creates more problems. People want more stuff, people complain when that stuff isn't free. Deadlines get pushed back(cure more complaining), shipping gets pushed up (yet more complaining), and if the company has other lines and games to serve - like mantic - that's all additional time taken away from those games.

Success is funding the project. More can be nice, but not always.

Tell that to the recent Shieldwolf and TMS miniature kickstarters. Both funded succesfully, but still the creators cancelled it before the kickstarter ended. I don't think "just" funding is something Mantic will be happy with.

I don't think they'll be happy. They no doubt plan for a certain funding range, and that in no way is in the realm of "barely funded". If it were to barely fund, or fun for a bit over (say $100k) I do not believe that Mantic would cancel the project, though. They're much more mature as Project Creators to do something like that. I think it'll likely do well enough over $100k, but it's clearly underperforming by Mantic's own metrics since their first stretch goal is now being given away for "free" as a "funding goal" to get the thing moving...

Yeah. Mantic is improving bu they are still almost great when they are at their best. GW at the same time released a lot og great stuff recently, both games and miniatures. And that is what Mantic have to compete with.

 Azazelx wrote:

Tonhel wrote:

It's not a game intended to play solo, so everything to have two people to start playing should have been included in the base set.

Honestly, for a project of this type, three pledge levels would have made sense:

2P starter including rules & a token amount of terrain (BEST VALUE) .pdf rules included.
1P starter including rules/dice/tokens - choosing one predetermined "gang" box. No swapsies for individual models, etc. No terrain.

Barebones rules/dice/tokens pledge. I can see the logic in not including this one from Day1 though, as you want to encourage the larger pledges initially.
Maybe a fourth, with just the pdf rules. Again, introduce that one later.

Any number of multi-tier pledge levels at the outset would have worked.

Starting with a One Pledge Fits All... really did not work.

I think they crippled their campaign with that decision.

And I say that in spite of actually liking what comes in the initial offering.

I... can honestly say that I would not be disappointed if they ended this campaign, regrouped, and relaunched in a few weeks, with a better idea of what the heck they are doing.

I think that they learned the wrong lessons from previous Kickstarters - and instead of having a pledge that was too complicated, they over simplified.

Playing the Alpha game after Pathfinder tonight, but the real meat is not in the game rules, they are in the campaign rules, and that will take a campaign to test.

The Auld Grump

I've mentioned this already, but it bears repeating and I'll back it up with a link this time:

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/getting-started/product/the-battle-of-the-glades-two-player-battle-set.html

We don't even have to go to Mantic's competitors to illustrate the lack of value here! Their own retail starter for KoW (two player, mind you!) gives you 80 plastic minis, two metal minis, a rulebook, and a campaign book for $80USD!

That's 82 miniatures and the rulebook for $5 less than what this Kickstarter's asking! This starting position, even if there will be additions later, is mental.

Yes, indeed. Here is what you can read on the home page of their website :

Welcome to the home of affordable wargames miniatures and fantastic tabletop games

They've made their reputation of this statement they're cheap. Of course, the quality is according to this cheapness.

And here comes Vanguard's Kickstarter. No matter what the Mantic fanboys will say, it's obvious they're trying to go the Walking Dead road by selling miniatures at a higher price they should be, given the material and the quality used. We're paying the "Skirmish Tax" here.

Nothing wrong in this, everyone is doing it but well...the image Mantic Games are games made by players for players at an affordable price isn't really the same than it was before.

And yes, there is GW. No Kickstarter, no delays, outstanding quality and better service...that's what Mantic Games is trying to compete against, with their generic fantasy world and a no less generic skirmish game in a market that is already crowded with them. I mean, the alpha rules may be as great as you want, but seriously, where is the soul of this game ? There is none. It's just a generic rule system for a generic fantasy universe. It only means something to Mantic fanboys who are involved into KoW. And most of them already have enough miniatures to play - they don't need to buy more than the rules, to be honest.

That's why I feel it won't follow the same road than the previous Kickstarters.

 Psychopomp wrote:
I've mentioned this already, but it bears repeating and I'll back it up with a link this time:

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/getting-started/product/the-battle-of-the-glades-two-player-battle-set.html

We don't even have to go to Mantic's competitors to illustrate the lack of value here! Their own retail starter for KoW (two player, mind you!) gives you 80 plastic minis, two metal minis, a rulebook, and a campaign book for $80USD!

That's 82 miniatures and the rulebook for $5 less than what this Kickstarter's asking! This starting position, even if there will be additions later, is mental.

Your post was quoted in the Comments section of the KS at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-vanguard-the-fantasy-skirmish-wargame/comments?cursor=18557777#comment-18557776.
Mantic gave the following reply:

there are more miniatures (like the hard plastics) and The Horror/Sisterhood Scouts that are coming soon for the two-player set. Also, the book will be a 128-page book (the same size as Deadzone, which retails for $39.99 normally) whereas Battle of the Glades has a rulebook that retails for $19.99, plus you've got objective markers and dice, etc. And that's before we've finished with the campaign. That value will keep getting better!

See https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-vanguard-the-fantasy-skirmish-wargame/comments?cursor=18557908#comment-18557907

P.S. I'm just the messenger here. I agree with your price comparison and as much as I'd like to see Vanguard succeed, I think this KS has not been handled well.

 Sarouan wrote:
I mean, the alpha rules may be as great as you want, but seriously, where is the soul of this game ? There is none. It's just a generic rule system for a generic fantasy universe. It only means something to Mantic fanboys who are involved into KoW. And most of them already have enough miniatures to play - they don't need to buy more than the rules, to be honest.

That's why I feel it won't follow the same road than the previous Kickstarters.

I don't care about KoW or it's setting, I'm backing this because I think the Nightstalkers look neat and the rules intrigue me. It is in fact, only the fourth Mantic KS I've ever done, so not sure only Mantic fanboys care about this. If anything it seems Mantic's usual customers are the ones who don't like this KS at all as they are used to certain type of KS value from Mantic.

 Sarouan wrote:
Yes, indeed. Here is what you can read on the home page of their website :

Welcome to the home of affordable wargames miniatures and fantastic tabletop games

They've made their reputation of this statement they're cheap. Of course, the quality is according to this cheapness.

And here comes Vanguard's Kickstarter. No matter what the Mantic fanboys will say, it's obvious they're trying to go the Walking Dead road by selling miniatures at a higher price they should be, given the material and the quality used. We're paying the "Skirmish Tax" here.

Nothing wrong in this, everyone is doing it but well...the image Mantic Games are games made by players for players at an affordable price isn't really the same than it was before.

And yes, there is GW. No Kickstarter, no delays, outstanding quality and better service...that's what Mantic Games is trying to compete against, with their generic fantasy world and a no less generic skirmish game in a market that is already crowded with them. I mean, the alpha rules may be as great as you want, but seriously, where is the soul of this game ? There is none. It's just a generic rule system for a generic fantasy universe. It only means something to Mantic fanboys who are involved into KoW. And most of them already have enough miniatures to play - they don't need to buy more than the rules, to be honest.

That's why I feel it won't follow the same road than the previous Kickstarters.

As to GW - you left out 'And Crappy, Crappy Rules!' - which is the other thing that GW has become known for. (Let us be honest - the General's Handbook for AoS was pretty much a gigantic errata that the customers had to pay for. Hurray, GW!)

While many may like the current GW aesthetic, it is by no means a universal opinion - I, for one, feel that the older GW plastic models, from around the time of 3rd edition WH40K, were superior to both Mantic and current GW.

But, yeah... if crappy unbalanced rules and overly ornate models float your boat, go enjoy yourself.

The Auld Grump - that said, I still have hope for the new Necromunda.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Zethnar wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
All that a single person needs to play is a warband. I don't understand this NEED for a 2 player starter set full of minis for a faction that will just be shoved into a closet.

I didn't realise the game supported solo play using only one warband.

I think I have found the disconnect in our conversation. It seems that for you a game is wholly unplayable unless there is a 2 player starter set.

No, the game is wholly unplayable if I don't have an opponent to play against. Not everyone is in a situation where they have an entire game group pledging to a single kickstarter.

 Psychopomp wrote:
I've mentioned this already, but it bears repeating and I'll back it up with a link this time:

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/getting-started/product/the-battle-of-the-glades-two-player-battle-set.html

We don't even have to go to Mantic's competitors to illustrate the lack of value here! Their own retail starter for KoW (two player, mind you!) gives you 80 plastic minis, two metal minis, a rulebook, and a campaign book for $80USD!

That's 82 miniatures and the rulebook for $5 less than what this Kickstarter's asking! This starting position, even if there will be additions later, is mental.

It's almost as if this KS is for a whole new game and for miniatures which haven't been put into production yet, eh?

Does it really need pointing out again that Kickstarter is for, well, kicking off projects? Are there really still people who think it's just a shop with curiously long postage times?

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

As to GW - you left out 'And Crappy, Crappy Rules!' - which is the other thing that GW has become known for. (Let us be honest - the General's Handbook for AoS was pretty much a gigantic errata that the customers had to pay for. Hurray, GW!)

Guess you're forgetting what came after AoS. But seems like you conveniently just focused on this episode and think GW did nothing to these days.

Also, I could talk a lot about Mantic's "balanced" rules - like how they handled the way Dungeon Saga works on custom adventures, that makes me remember how GW wrote their rules in the past.

But sure, keep believing Mantic is so superior to GW on that topic.

The real trouble is that it's another skirmish game with no real new mechanism. Why playing this one more than another ? For players ? Not sure you will find plenty of them for that game. For its new mechanism ? It's so generic it has none. For the campaign system ? Other skirmish games have one. For the world ? The KoW universe is so underdevelopped it's not even richer than AoS' one. For the price ? I think it's obvious the price Mantic is asking for this game isn't as "affordable" as they want to make you believe, especially when compared to what is already on the market elsewhere.Sure, they say the Kickstarter pledge is cheaper than the retail price, and that's the trouble : if it is only interesting on the Kickstarter, what do you think will happen once it hits the shops ? How do you convince new players to invest in that game more than another - "too bad you didn't pledge for the Kickstarter, now you have to pay the full price" ?

And yes, I think Mantic backers didn't expect to have that Kickstarter with such a low value. Which is why they are holding their wallets so far.

I like the look of the gribbly Stranger Things style monsters.

I also like KoW.

Like everyone else I'm struggling to see the value here, though.

Rules need to be as close to "free" in pricing as possible. I get that there is a cost to game development, and to art, and to printing. But if you're a wargames company you need to absorb a lot of that cost, and *still* do good quality rules, because the main purpose of your rules is to drive sales of your models. You want people to buy in to your rules and your world, and then want more minis. For me, KS best practice for miniatures wargames is that you ensure that every gamer who looks at your offering *cannot* justify saying "no" on price grounds, because the value looks incredible, because they can see that their money is getting them an amazing deal based just on the quality and quantity of miniatures. At that point the rules genuinely look free, and everyone loves free stuff. You have already convinced yourself this is a good deal and OMG FREE RULES TOO? We all know that rules are something of a lottery, and we also know that we already have lots of rules and so in fact it's not a dealbreaker if the rules are dreadful, anyway, because we can use these minis in other games. And that's another reason to keep that perception of the rules as a freebie, if you buy enough minis.

I would almost be at that point, if Mantic had a superb rep for minis quality. I like their plastic undead but am not a huge fan of anything else they've done, so it feels like the minis quality is going to be something of a lottery too. The terrain increases the value a fair bit for me -- it's why I'm almost at "hey, the rules are practically FREE" territory -- except that I already backed their TerrainCrate kickstarter, pretty heavily, for other games. And I think the TerrainCrate duplication is a significant problem. Most of the people who overlap between "skirmish gamers" and "Mantic fans" already have that same terrain on order. I backed enough so that I could think "I will never not have enough fantasy terrain again." I really don't need more. So, nope. Sitting this one out.

 .Mikes. wrote:


It's almost as if this KS is for a whole new game and for miniatures which haven't been put into production yet, eh?

Does it really need pointing out again that Kickstarter is for, well, kicking off projects? Are there really still people who think it's just a shop with curiously long postage times?

Okay, then. If I'm going to invest in this project, what's my return? Because it's certainly not going to be $85 worth of stuff at the open. Where's my incentive? This is a crowdfunding site for projects, not Patreon.

And if it's supposed to become a return worth the risk, I'm not seeing the signs at the current rate. Mantic's initial proposal has offered too little potential return on investment at the opening stage, even if successful!

This isn't a webstore preorder with guarantee of delivery, no. (Even though Mantic loves treating it like one.) It's also not a freaking charity.

I know Mantic can do better than this. I've backed better than this. I've never seen such a paltry initial offering of return on investment from any of their Kickstarters, and if they don't fix that, I don't think they're going to hit the eventual return on investment they're expecting, as they have in the past.

 Psychopomp wrote:


Okay, then. If I'm going to invest in this project, what's my return?

Being able to play a game you want to see reach production. It really is as simple as that.

In this saturated market? Not good enough. If I want to pay twice as much as what I think a product is worth, I can get a Games Workshop skirmish game today.

Mantic's not earning my investment, here. It's on them to do that.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Necros wrote:
I kinda feel like they should have done it more like a small campaign for just the printed rulebook with a PDF version free forever, and then had rules for making warbands out of all of the Kings of War factions where the idea is you use models from your KOW armies to build your warbands, rather than separate warband sets for Vanguard.

Mo' Models, Mo' Money, I guess...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Do you think $130 is a competitive price for a 'standard' starter set? Honestly asking, because I know my own perceptions are locked in an old man grumpus version of c2000 pricing. To me, that feels like an instant no deal.
I'll be spending 40 bucks on the hard plastics for sure. I still want those Basilean characters...although I don't want to spend $85 because there is no $45 option.
The $85 two player starter is a no go for me because they dropped the most exciting minis from each faction. I guess I'm a bad gamer, but I just don't value the rules at all.

I know you're asking Doug, but that pricing is mental compared to the competition in HIPS, available both now and also what's going to be available in about three weeks. Oddly in comparison to yourself, I'm more interested in the rules than any of the models. Mantic's non-metal models don't hold a lot of intrinsic value to me as the best they've achieved has been "decent" to "pretty good" (and consistently improving) by my own standards. They're certainly no Putrid Blightkings, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tonhel wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
They’ll make it, but when start ups break their funding goals in 24 hours or less and seam to be more with it from the get go with their KS it really is a bad show from an experienced group.

Not necessarily. The goal is to fund the rulebooks and tooling for the base game. You start blasting through funding goals and that creates more problems. People want more stuff, people complain when that stuff isn't free. Deadlines get pushed back(cure more complaining), shipping gets pushed up (yet more complaining), and if the company has other lines and games to serve - like mantic - that's all additional time taken away from those games.

Success is funding the project. More can be nice, but not always.

Tell that to the recent Shieldwolf and TMS miniature kickstarters. Both funded succesfully, but still the creators cancelled it before the kickstarter ended. I don't think "just" funding is something Mantic will be happy with.

I don't think they'll be happy. They no doubt plan for a certain funding range, and that in no way is in the realm of "barely funded". If it were to barely fund, or fun for a bit over (say $100k) I do not believe that Mantic would cancel the project, though. They're much more mature as Project Creators to do something like that. I think it'll likely do well enough over $100k, but it's clearly underperforming by Mantic's own metrics since their first stretch goal is now being given away for "free" as a "funding goal" to get the thing moving...

whats coming out in HIPS in the next few weeks?

 Esker wrote:

Your post was quoted in the Comments section of the KS at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-vanguard-the-fantasy-skirmish-wargame/comments?cursor=18557777#comment-18557776.
Mantic gave the following reply:

there are more miniatures (like the hard plastics) and The Horror/Sisterhood Scouts that are coming soon for the two-player set. Also, the book will be a 128-page book (the same size as Deadzone, which retails for $39.99 normally) whereas Battle of the Glades has a rulebook that retails for $19.99, plus you've got objective markers and dice, etc. And that's before we've finished with the campaign. That value will keep getting better!

See https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-vanguard-the-fantasy-skirmish-wargame/comments?cursor=18557908#comment-18557907

P.S. I'm just the messenger here. I agree with your price comparison and as much as I'd like to see Vanguard succeed, I think this KS has not been handled well.

So there's the problem. Like always, the campaign has been set up based on any number of fake stretch goals. Compromising the initial offering so badly based on FSGs has (finally) started coming home to roost, though. And about bloody time.

And perhaps oddly, while I would probably be more interested in the rules here over anything else, I don't value an as-yet unwritten rulebook paid for a year in advance on Kickstarter anywhere near to the same value as a rulebook that's already in production and able to be critiqued and reviewed in full.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord marcus wrote:

whats coming out in HIPS in the next few weeks?

Probably didn't need to quote a whole page for a 10-word question, but this:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/31/a-closer-look-at-necromundagw-homepage-post-2/

Okay somebody gotta ask... What the hell is that thing behind the wall?

 ulgurstasta wrote:

Spoiler:

 DaveC wrote:
Ruins terrain sneak peak from the newsletter



Corner connectors look good a lot more natural than the Sci-Fi ones and very like the Mordheim ones

Okay somebody gotta ask... What the hell is that thing behind the wall?

You mean this



Probably Northern Alliance - could be a giant if that's a shield on it's chest

Vallejo Cold Grey, I believe.

It funded and hit a stretch. Mantic seems to still be all in on this campaign. Too bad it's not picking up; daily totals are down. Mantic is hinting at a lot of stuff we might not see at this pace. Hope it picks up.

I pledged a dollar right now and I will go all in if Mantic confirms to me they will ship Royal Mail to Canada.

3rd times a charm hopefully.

Haha, too bad the dailies aren't picking up, *pledges dollar*, I've done my part!

Some of those warband sets aren't bad, even if you argue against the value of 1/3 of a heavy infantry you still have $50 worth of guys for 20

ArtIsGreat wrote:
Haha, too bad the dailies aren't picking up, *pledges dollar*, I've done my part!

Well I don't think it would be fair to pledge more just to pull out if Mantic confirms courier shipping to Canada instead of Royal Mail.

If I lived in the US or UK I would be all in.

So, the campaign isn't exactly a runaway hit so far, but it's chugging along.
2 Horrors were added to the Nightstalker forces when $80k passed


Already added at the $75k funding level were some (presumably a sprue each of) HIPS men at arms and scarecrows



Just a few hundred left now to the $85k stretch goal, which will add a pair of Sisterhood scouts to the Basilean forces



Further stretchgoals are revealed as well








Some more addons are now availible too, which will hopefully help with reaching those stretchgoals:

It would take $40 extra to upgrade the 2-player set to the 1-player warbands. That's $125 for those keeping track at home. For 2 warbands totalling 16 PVC minis, 10 hard plastic minis, and 6 resin minis. Oh, and a rulebook (presumably hardback?) and some bespoke dice.

Meanwhile Privateer Press is offer a 2-player skirmish box with 22 *metal* minis, 3 softcover rulebooks, and a pack of game cards for $75. Retail. Right now. Now waiting, no stretch goals.

Lets not even mention what you could get for Frostgrave (either flavor) for $125...

Has Ronnie actually seen this Kickstarter? What the hell is going on here?