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 Absolutionis wrote:
Does anyone know if the Phase 2 models will come with their own cards?

Yes all phase 2 miniatures will have their own printed cards that includes the missing Cthonian drone card and a Tech Com Kara card. The change to some cards only affects wave 1 miniatures.

Oh man that terrain is incredible! I had actually forgotten about it and was ready to buy some other bits, glad I waited a while.

I must say that it is nice to see some of my kickstarters coming to a close, Mantic's Dreadball and now this are all going to be done soon. Does make me guilty about not having painted a single model from Sedition Wars so far though...

Heh. I haven't even gone through the box to make sure everything's there yet!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. I haven't even gone through the box to make sure everything's there yet!

Me neither. At this point I just want the rest of my stuff, and then never do business with CMoN or McVey ever again.

I'm now eagerly waiting for shipment 2 (and the DLC campaign/solo stuff) and the follow up
Sedition Wars: Arms of Sorrow however they decide to release it

I think they were supposed to. Also, we would get the additional card for the second Cthonian, and I thought I heard a rumor about getting an official one for the resin Kara, rather then the PDF.

I hope new rulebook is something I will enjoy enough to play the game over all the others I have, as I think I am thoroughly stuck with the game. As far as I can tell from looking around, you can't even sell copies of the Biohazard pledge for even half of what it cost on the Kickstarter.

 AegisGrimm wrote:


I hope new rulebook is something I will enjoy enough to play the game over all the others I have, as I think I am thoroughly stuck with the game. As far as I can tell from looking around, you can't even sell copies of the Biohazard pledge for even half of what it cost on the Kickstarter.

That might actually be good news for me. I like the human troopers enough to maybe build an army of them, but apparently you can't buy them outside of the boxed game...

 JoshInJapan wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:


I hope new rulebook is something I will enjoy enough to play the game over all the others I have, as I think I am thoroughly stuck with the game. As far as I can tell from looking around, you can't even sell copies of the Biohazard pledge for even half of what it cost on the Kickstarter.

That might actually be good news for me. I like the human troopers enough to maybe build an army of them, but apparently you can't buy them outside of the boxed game...

The reason it's so hard to sell the biohazard is due to the poor reception the game got and well, the fact that you can get it for $45-$60 in the normal boxed version...... Oh well.

This is specially annoying when you see the prices of zombicide :(

I for one hope that the new rulebook will make it be more than an untouched box on the bottom of the shelve

 Bacms wrote:
This is specially annoying when you see the prices of zombicide :(

I for one hope that the new rulebook will make it be more than an untouched box on the bottom of the shelve

Even more annoying if you supported Sedition Wars over Zombicide due to money and trust in Studio McVey.

The ironic thing, I thought Zombicide would turn out to be a cheap boardgame of low quality figures that needed tons of assembly...... instead Zombicide was the hit game with good quality and Sedition Wars was the game that helped bring Studio McVey from one of the most exceptional companies known in the miniatures world into a company most of us will think twice about trusting.

I gambled wrong personally, I notice zombicide pledge package goes for $800 - $1200 no problems.

I went with Sedition Wars over Zombicide. Apparently I just have bad taste overall because I still don't have any interest in Zombicide...

Sedition Wars is currently the only 'buyers remorse' item I have from Kickstarter, and I got a double pack. Not sure why to be honest, I've not played it yet, but I think in general the models and everything about the game has turned out a little meh.

I am hoping the second wave will change my thoughts, either that, or give me two complete sets to sell off on ebay.

 Lt. Coldfire wrote:
I went with Sedition Wars over Zombicide. Apparently I just have bad taste overall because I still don't have any interest in Zombicide...

I supported Sedition Wars because I approved of Kara being made the protagonist of the setting, because I liked what I thought the fluff was, and McVey said they'd "definitely" be making the not-absurdly-expensive restic troops available for purchase.

Then they ruined the expansion by killing off most of the Vanguard, ruined the backstory with Replacement Goldfish stupidity, and ruined the not-absurdly-expensive restic troops by not offering them for sale.

I think what I got is just fine, other than what I hear is a pretty horrendous prep time due to the qualities of restic (regarding the ease of flash removal versus hard plastic). Otherwise, all of the figures and 'components are friggin' beautiful, and even the rulebook is "workable", though I will welcome the new version. Even with something as little as "good" poses versus "bad" ones, there isn't one single figure in the basic game that makes me say "Meh, I really don't like how it looks."

It turns out I was just biting off more than I could chew in the hobby, as it ended up being contested against all the other miniatures/games I have in my "to do" list, and a game where it might take 4-6 hours just to get assembled (and still unpainted) figures to even play with has a hard time against all the unfinished 40K stuff, an in-progress Battlefleet Gothic fleet, some Necromunda figures, and a couple of smaller game system items that I still want to finish.

I was also wanting to make a try at playing it as an open tabletop game as well as a board game (eliminates playing on the same boards all the time), but unfortunately I recently found games like "In the Emperor's Name" which scratches that itch better, is easier to teach my wife, uses the 40K models I already have painted, and is totally free to boot. I actually kind of wish Mantic's Deadzone would have come out last summer, as the gameplay sounds more like what I wanted to get out of Sedition Wars.

I bear absolutely no ill will towards Mcvey Studios (other than being gruff about having to print my own 2e rulebook when I helped fund the game in the first place, when new purchasers of a second printing will get it in print automatically). It's just a personal bummer that I got sucked in on the hype, and can't get back even a good chunk of my money by reselling it, so I have a brand new product sitting on my office floor taking up capitol.

 Lt. Coldfire wrote:
I went with Sedition Wars over Zombicide. Apparently I just have bad taste overall because I still don't have any interest in Zombicide...

This.

 AlexHolker wrote:

I supported Sedition Wars because I approved of Kara being made the protagonist of the setting, because I liked what I thought the fluff was, and McVey said they'd "definitely" be making the not-absurdly-expensive restic troops available for purchase.

Then they ruined the expansion by killing off most of the Vanguard, ruined the backstory with Replacement Goldfish stupidity, and ruined the not-absurdly-expensive restic troops by not offering them for sale.

Wait, what? I heard that the cheap troops were going to be available down the line, just not immediately. And am just super-confused by what you're saying about the plot... like, what are you even talking about? The expansion hasn't even come out, and the only "dead" character I've heard anything about was one that had foreshadowing about that to begin with.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Wait, what? I heard that the cheap troops were going to be available down the line, just not immediately.

Not at this point - the last statement from McVey was that they would be made available, if they made a full wargame.

And am just super-confused by what you're saying about the plot... like, what are you even talking about? The expansion hasn't even come out, and the only "dead" character I've heard anything about was one that had foreshadowing about that to begin with.

The setup for the expansion is that the stupid space zombies won, and that most of the Vanguard on the Arms of Sorrow were killed. The other bit is that instead of the recovery tech actually doing something metaphysically interesting and somehow transferring your "soul" to a new body, you die and then they grow a replacement that thinks they are you. And everyone is apparently enough of a pod person to not care when their friends die. Both of these hurt my ability to care about the fiction behind the game.

Hmm, hadn't heard that. For me, I thought the regenerating replacements was kind of cool as a mentioned concept in the first book, but it'll really depend on what happens, whether it's a glorified way around plot armor or if it's actually interesting. The concept is neither great nor terrible to me, more the execution.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Hmm, hadn't heard that. For me, I thought the regenerating replacements was kind of cool as a mentioned concept in the first book, but it'll really depend on what happens, whether it's a glorified way around plot armor or if it's actually interesting. The concept is neither great nor terrible to me, more the execution.

It could have been actually interesting, if they had a better writer. To me, it's an opportunity to write a short story about a Vanguard stuck in post-traumatic therapy after being killed in action who really doesn't want to be there, or about a Firebrand drone who is meant to hack into the system as an escape plan, but is afraid that Solar Conglomerate propaganda is true and that she doesn't have a soul to transfer. McVey's writer/s, on the other hand, can't even rise to the level of cliche: Kara Black was missing, presumed dead for a few days, and came back to find her superiors had simply made a new Kara Black to take her place, yet she doesn't even blink before doing the same to her own subordinates.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Hmm, hadn't heard that. For me, I thought the regenerating replacements was kind of cool as a mentioned concept in the first book, but it'll really depend on what happens, whether it's a glorified way around plot armor or if it's actually interesting. The concept is neither great nor terrible to me, more the execution.

It could have been actually interesting, if they had a better writer. To me, it's an opportunity to write a short story about a Vanguard stuck in post-traumatic therapy after being killed in action who really doesn't want to be there, or about a Firebrand drone who is meant to hack into the system as an escape plan, but is afraid that Solar Conglomerate propaganda is true and that she doesn't have a soul to transfer. McVey's writer/s, on the other hand, can't even rise to the level of cliche: Kara Black was missing, presumed dead for a few days, and came back to find her superiors had simply made a new Kara Black to take her place, yet she doesn't even blink before doing the same to her own subordinates.

That is pretty bad...

It doesn't seem like any part of this game is living up to its potential...

I will say this. This Kickstarter instilled a certain carefulness in me moving forward. I way over did it and if the stuff had been even reasonably on time might still have had my attention span on it enough for me make good use of the models. But since everything has been so late I'm pretty much sitting on a ton of models that I might never use anywhere near all of them. Oh well, lesson learned.

That said I am quite happy with the actual models I got.

 Alpharius wrote:
It doesn't seem like any part of this game is living up to its potential...

Let's be honest here, we didn't buy this for the game. We bought it for the figures.

 Breotan wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
It doesn't seem like any part of this game is living up to its potential...

Let's be honest here, we didn't buy this for the game. We bought it for the figures.

Well, I'll admit that was the main reason why I bought the game, but it wasn't the only reason!

I expected a fun and coherent boardgame/wargame hybrid that would, hopefully, one day expand into a 'true' tabletop wargame.

That might still happen, but... they've got some work to do to restore confidence and faith in their efforts.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Hmm, hadn't heard that. For me, I thought the regenerating replacements was kind of cool as a mentioned concept in the first book, but it'll really depend on what happens, whether it's a glorified way around plot armor or if it's actually interesting. The concept is neither great nor terrible to me, more the execution.

It could have been actually interesting, if they had a better writer. To me, it's an opportunity to write a short story about a Vanguard stuck in post-traumatic therapy after being killed in action who really doesn't want to be there, or about a Firebrand drone who is meant to hack into the system as an escape plan, but is afraid that Solar Conglomerate propaganda is true and that she doesn't have a soul to transfer. McVey's writer/s, on the other hand, can't even rise to the level of cliche: Kara Black was missing, presumed dead for a few days, and came back to find her superiors had simply made a new Kara Black to take her place, yet she doesn't even blink before doing the same to her own subordinates.

Not saying the writing couldn't be better, but, devil's advocate:

-First, I never got the impression that this was secret, not sure if you're saying it is.

-Presumably, they'd want to avoid PTSD- ain't good for morale or good soldiers. Would a traumatized veteran's skills be worth it over a new but not traumatized recruit? Why not take a veteran and, since you've recorded their memories, stop it before their traumatic death? What about if they just wanted to live a normal life after eventually retiring? (And, yes, the question of what to do could be brought up as a story in itself.)

-You're talking about "what would happen if you found out you had a clone?" which implicitly assumes what would that be like in something close to our society. What if there's been 300 years of public knowledge of cloning? I'd put up the analogy of saying, 400 years ago, what if you told someone that "the government will be able to record your actions at intersections, see you from space and track all of your personal information, private corporations can do similar things, wars and battles are fought often in civilian areas, you can remotely explode people thousands of miles away (possibly with some sort of flame-propelled and self-guiding ballista...thing), and tons of things aren't valuable any more because they can be duplicated or manufactured at the expense of basically no resources." I'd argue that it could easily be culturally acceptable in the future for cloning to be a regular thing.

-Not sure about what you mean regarding the soul thing, so can't comment there.


Now, if I had written it and that was my intention, I'd have stated it more clearly somewhere, but I feel that SMV assumed a lot that they later realized others didn't assume (their rules required a lot of inference; the zombies don't fight like zombies; the scenarios aren't designed balanced- at least the latter two of which could have probably been dealt with in a couple sentences of explanation at the right places), so I can't say that that wasn't their intention.

edit: And, no, I'm not pulling this "maybe they just assumed you'd get it" out of my ass. When I started illustrating and writing, there were a ton of moments where I was super-frustrated that stuff I thought was implied and easy to pick up on was actually obtuse and people didn't get it or ignored it.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Hmm, hadn't heard that. For me, I thought the regenerating replacements was kind of cool as a mentioned concept in the first book, but it'll really depend on what happens, whether it's a glorified way around plot armor or if it's actually interesting. The concept is neither great nor terrible to me, more the execution.

It could have been actually interesting, if they had a better writer. To me, it's an opportunity to write a short story about a Vanguard stuck in post-traumatic therapy after being killed in action who really doesn't want to be there, or about a Firebrand drone who is meant to hack into the system as an escape plan, but is afraid that Solar Conglomerate propaganda is true and that she doesn't have a soul to transfer. McVey's writer/s, on the other hand, can't even rise to the level of cliche: Kara Black was missing, presumed dead for a few days, and came back to find her superiors had simply made a new Kara Black to take her place, yet she doesn't even blink before doing the same to her own subordinates.

Ugh. I say again, Ugh.

This would seem to take the very worst aspect of Star Trek's transporters (which, if one pays close attention, are not teleportation devices, but things that disassemble the individual in one place and essentially replicates a duplicate in another place) and turn the dial to 11.

The difference is that in Star Trek, the reason for the transporter was entirely budgetary (early in the show's planning, it was intended that either the Enterprise or a shuttle would be used to get to/from a planet, but the costs of these shots was considered prohibitive). It was only years later that the principles got fleshed out and the horrendous implications became clear. Here though, they just dove right into the terrible points, eh?

Assuming your point is on the level (and Ms. Black finding her replacement seems fairly unambiguous), then all of the characters are literally disposable.

But, like I said, it can all pretty well be summed up with ugh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally, I should make it clear it's not the concept of "backing-up" a person's personality so that they can have physical resurrection that's the problematic point. That concept is old hat, going back at least to the Cruciform in Dan Simmon's Hyperion books (1989 and on). Doubtless it can be traced back to far older uses, and in any case seems simply to be a sci-fi version of a liche's phylactery (albeit much more benign in tone). Heck, the whole concept is as familiar as can be.

The problem is that in other uses, such soul jars are used as a way to cheat death... the use described above basically removes uniqueness and makes good soldiers a literal commodity. That is, Kara Sloan is a great officer? Cool, let's have a dozen at age 28, one at 35 to lead the division...

 AlexHolker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. I haven't even gone through the box to make sure everything's there yet!

Me neither. At this point I just want the rest of my stuff, and then never do business with CMoN or McVey ever again.

number of people have said this, have to wonder if this will affect Wrath of Kings, Ron and bones, and Confrontation?

it didn't affect Zombicide 2, however Z1 was such a huge hit.

 Piston Honda wrote:
number of people have said this, have to wonder if this will affect Wrath of Kings, Ron and bones, and Confrontation?

it didn't affect Zombicide 2, however Z1 was such a huge hit.

I don't think it will. You'll get people who will likely post snarky comments in the future threads but still back it (likely quietly) despite their prior experience. Its kind of like the ratio of people who complain about gw prices making them want to quit compared with the number who actually do. If the perceived value is there, that will take priority over poor track record.

 Piston Honda wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. I haven't even gone through the box to make sure everything's there yet!

Me neither. At this point I just want the rest of my stuff, and then never do business with CMoN or McVey ever again.

number of people have said this, have to wonder if this will affect Wrath of Kings, Ron and bones, and Confrontation?

it didn't affect Zombicide 2, however Z1 was such a huge hit.

Probably not so much (although the comments will have more complaints)

although the lack of enthusiasm shown by the beta testers of the new Confrontation makes me expect that not to do so well (if it even launches in the forseable future)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. I haven't even gone through the box to make sure everything's there yet!

Me neither. At this point I just want the rest of my stuff, and then never do business with CMoN or McVey ever again.

number of people have said this, have to wonder if this will affect Wrath of Kings, Ron and bones, and Confrontation?

it didn't affect Zombicide 2, however Z1 was such a huge hit.

Probably not so much (although the comments will have more complaints)

although the lack of enthusiasm shown by the beta testers of the new Confrontation makes me expect that not to do so well (if it even launches in the forseable future)

I have always heard vaguely positive things (mainly nostalgia for the sculpts, mind) about Confrontation. Where have you heard this information about the rules testing?

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. I haven't even gone through the box to make sure everything's there yet!

Me neither. At this point I just want the rest of my stuff, and then never do business with CMoN or McVey ever again.

number of people have said this, have to wonder if this will affect Wrath of Kings, Ron and bones, and Confrontation?

it didn't affect Zombicide 2, however Z1 was such a huge hit.

Probably not so much (although the comments will have more complaints)

although the lack of enthusiasm shown by the beta testers of the new Confrontation makes me expect that not to do so well (if it even launches in the forseable future)

I have always heard vaguely positive things (mainly nostalgia for the sculpts, mind) about Confrontation. Where have you heard this information about the rules testing?

Old confrontation has a lot of positives.

New confrontation rules have a lot of complaints. Dragon Painting has a few play testers.

There is a guy in my gaming group that is part of the play testing and said the rules blow chunks.

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. I haven't even gone through the box to make sure everything's there yet!

Me neither. At this point I just want the rest of my stuff, and then never do business with CMoN or McVey ever again.

number of people have said this, have to wonder if this will affect Wrath of Kings, Ron and bones, and Confrontation?

it didn't affect Zombicide 2, however Z1 was such a huge hit.

Probably not so much (although the comments will have more complaints)

although the lack of enthusiasm shown by the beta testers of the new Confrontation makes me expect that not to do so well (if it even launches in the forseable future)

I have always heard vaguely positive things (mainly nostalgia for the sculpts, mind) about Confrontation. Where have you heard this information about the rules testing?

Sadly I'll have to agree with Orlando here... the news... it hasn't been that good...

http://www.dragonpainting.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=3848

Still, that could be just us Old Guard unhappy about change, etc. etc., but... I don't think so...