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And that's the point. It's like wasting shots at shoota buggies or multilaser scout sentinels. They're so cheap and so relatively unlikely to do damage, that you don't want to be forced to waste perfectly good shots against them when there are much more serious threats. On the other hand, you can't exactly just let them do what they want, as even the remainders of an exploded trukk squad getting into close combat can still be annoying. And they score, and they're really fast, so you should probably stop them because of their potential impact, but it's only 100 points, and it's a crappy unit, and there are MANZ right in front of you now, and those bikes are going to be a way bigger problem, especially since they can deliver klaws, something which the boyz don't even have, but that's because...

... and while your opponent is trying to figure out what annoying unit to shoot at first, everything is in close combat turn two.

The best part is that you could basically dark eldar it. 900 points gets you 6 trukks full of boyz and 9 buggies. That's 13 pieces of AV10 at 1,000 points. Round things out with some looted vehicles/kanz/cheap nobz in trukks and there's going to be just too much junk on the field to be able to handle it all. That and unlike DE, once you blow open those 18 AV10 vehicles... SLUGGAZ AND NOBZ come out and beat your face up, unlike DE, where it's usually just a few puny warriors and maybe a wyche or two that survives.

... If anything, having a 1850 point list wherin all of the vehicles are wrecked means that you're looking at a 1500 point ork army that's now very upset that you wrecked their rides...

Three nekkid nobs in a trukk with rpj is also just 100 points.

 loota boy wrote:
Three nekkid nobs in a trukk with rpj is also just 100 points.

Looks like we finally found a use for the thousands of AoBR nobs that everyone has

I use mine as 'Ard Boyz.

Slugga horde - I say go for it. Although I personally love shoota boyz, if you want CC hoppy boyz then do it. People are mainly freaking about them sucking now because of overwatch. And as long as you dont charge a unit full of TL weapons or things like devourer gants, you dont really have to worry about overwatch. Youll lose around 3 boyz if its a SM unit. Big deal.

Ass load of cheap vehicles - Hey! Now thats a fun idea right there. And my trukks have been collecting dust for a long ass time now.....hmmmmmmm

If you guys are going for low pt count troops, you should run 6 of them, then max out lootas and put them in battlewagons. That should pretty cool.

Also, let's not forget the (original) Buffet rule. At some point in the future, sluggas will be better (or equal to) shootas in quality. If people are abandoning their sluggas in droves right now, then right now is probably the best time to troll ebay to get some great deals on sluggas.

I agree. Its ALWAYS been fairly even as far as shootas and choppas go. I said that same thing earlier, in our next dex, expect something awesome....like the Choppa rule coming back?? That would make my trukk mobs happy campers.


Also when running a trukk mob, you should always take a BW or two to play defensive linemen. And sticking a MAmek and some lootas in one or two of them would be a real treat for anything infront of that line

These are great ideas for Truks and cheap buggies ...

Are some of you still using the old wartrukk ... it looks sooooo small compared to the new one ... I use mines as buggies now.

Also, this thing came up in a recent game against Necrons. My Big Boss (Klaw, Cybork, Armor, Attack Squig) was in a challenge with a Necron-something (I don't now which one) but it had like an invulnerable save of 4+ (if I remember correctly) ... after 2 rounds of combat we were at 1 WP each. So when it attacked me (with it's superior Initiative of "2"), I decided NOT to use my Klaw and bash him with the butt of my gun ... so now hitting at I4, before the Necron-character, I hit him 4 times with 3 wounds ... he saved only 2 ... I killed him before he did ... Is this legal ?

I'm fairly sure that's illegal. If you have a special weapon, unless you have anouther one, you can't elect not to use the weapon. Like you can't just not use your power weapons in an assualt so that you drag the assault out for one turn.

 valminder wrote:
These are great ideas for Truks and cheap buggies ...

Are some of you still using the old wartrukk ... it looks sooooo small compared to the new one ... I use mines as buggies now.

Also, this thing came up in a recent game against Necrons. My Big Boss (Klaw, Cybork, Armor, Attack Squig) was in a challenge with a Necron-something (I don't now which one) but it had like an invulnerable save of 4+ (if I remember correctly) ... after 2 rounds of combat we were at 1 WP each. So when it attacked me (with it's superior Initiative of "2"), I decided NOT to use my Klaw and bash him with the butt of my gun ... so now hitting at I4, before the Necron-character, I hit him 4 times with 3 wounds ... he saved only 2 ... I killed him before he did ... Is this legal ?

I know it is legal if you have a seperate weapon. Mad dok can attack with poisoned weapons, or a power klaw. I think zagstruk has a choppa he can choose to use as well? Unsure.

The thing that only makes this "Questionable Legality" instead of outright "illegal" is the Attack Squig, and even that's iffy. Unless you had a Slugga?

Anvildude wrote:
The thing that only makes this "Questionable Legality" instead of outright "illegal" is the Attack Squig, and even that's iffy. Unless you had a Slugga?

Attack Squig is wargear, thus you always get a +1 A due to it this may never be taken away or removed it is a profile upgrade and nothing more.

People need to understand you may choose to use different wargear but you cannot choose NOT to use wargear anymore. that was done away since 5 edition.

Pistols and Sluggas count as standard close combat weapons which allow you to attack on your basic init.

Power Klaws are specialist weapons with the unweildy characteristic meaning IF it's chosen as one of the weapons wielded it will reduce you to init 1. the problem is you must use these tools and have no choice unless, you are outfitted with Power klaw, Choppa & Slugga this means you are able to use the choppa and slugga and forego the Powerklaw or it's rules. The problem is most orks forgo their choppa for a Power Klaw meaning they are 9 times out of 10 stuck with init 1 at that point. Zagstruk is equiped with all 3 and thus has a choice in avoiding the weapon.

Meganobz have only a power klaw as a close combat weapon and thus cannot remove that.

yadda yadda yadda no avoiding Init 1 less you have alot of wargear. sorry folks

Yea, I'm with big mek, in the upgrades area it says REPLACE choppa with powerclaw. Technically you didn't have a weapon that attacks at normal initiative in CC.

But as the local saying goes around my FLGS, "if you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!"
lol

Rejn wrote:
Yea, I'm with big mek, in the upgrades area it says REPLACE choppa with powerclaw. Technically you didn't have a weapon that attacks at normal initiative in CC.

But as the local saying goes around my FLGS, "if you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!"
lol

though i hate cheating... it's not actually a bad quote lol. It means you are thinking outside the box and saying "well it doesn't say i can't... does that mean I can?" which is actually the types of questions or reactions i am not oppose to when people want to find power... for example (and I'd never do this) but technically if you read Mad dok Grotsniks "Da big Dok" rule it reads

ANY UNIT IN AN ARMY including Grotsnik may upgrade it's members to have cybork bodies for +5 points per model

this means allies COULD technically have cybork bodies since in theory... they are a "UNIT IN AN ARMY" with grotsnik. Could you imagine?

It's not talked about in the FAQ to my knowledge either.

Likely not yet. so you may be able to swing it for a while. but if the tactic becomes widespread I am sure it will get hit with a "any unit chosen from Codex:Orks" restriction like many of the other things similar to this.

As for slugga boys getting ripped apart by overwatch... I have played less than 10 games in 6th so far but I commonly play as crons vs my friends nids. (mainly because they are my registered DDWWC army) and even with tesla 3 hits on 6's i have not seen overwatch do very well. I count myself lucky if I get 1 kill and extremely fortunate to get 2 kills. and thats vs Gaunts.

Hey now, it's not "Choppa and Slugga" in the Wargear, it's "Choppa" and "Slugga", seperate. And Sluggas are Pistols, and therefore count as a single Close Combat Weapon, right?

Yes, yes they do.

This is a lot of to do about nothing. You can use a pistol in close combat if you want, as it's explicitly stated to count as a close combat weapon (pg. 52). Meanwhile, 6th ed unwrote the rule that if you have a powerfist you MUST use it.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

Rejn wrote:
Yea, I'm with big mek, in the upgrades area it says REPLACE choppa with powerclaw. Technically you didn't have a weapon that attacks at normal initiative in CC.

But as the local saying goes around my FLGS, "if you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!"
lol

though i hate cheating... it's not actually a bad quote lol. It means you are thinking outside the box and saying "well it doesn't say i can't... does that mean I can?" which is actually the types of questions or reactions i am not oppose to when people want to find power... for example (and I'd never do this) but technically if you read Mad dok Grotsniks "Da big Dok" rule it reads

ANY UNIT IN AN ARMY including Grotsnik may upgrade it's members to have cybork bodies for +5 points per model

this means allies COULD technically have cybork bodies since in theory... they are a "UNIT IN AN ARMY" with grotsnik. Could you imagine?

It's not talked about in the FAQ to my knowledge either.

I agree its a legit and a orky thing to do. The faq does address it by listing "restrictions" Are there any restrictions? just no vehicles or unique characters. hey look, allies are not listed as a restriction. but due to all the other non orky things people are trying with similar rules, I can't see it lasting much longer so do it while you can.

Q. How many units in an army with Mad Dok Grotsnik
can be upgraded to have cybork bodies? Are there any
restrictions (apart from non-vehicle) or can it even be
Gretchin or Independent Characters? (p59)
A. Any number of units can be upgraded. This includes
Gretchin (Super-Gretchin! Cool conversions, but a bit
expensive at 8 pts per model!) and Independent
Characters (except for unique characters), effectively
giving them a 5 pt discount on the cybork body
upgrade.

 Ailaros wrote:
Yes, yes they do.

This is a lot of to do about nothing. You can use a pistol in close combat if you want, as it's explicitly stated to count as a close combat weapon (pg. 52). Meanwhile, 6th ed unwrote the rule that if you have a powerfist you MUST use it.

problem was always with mega nobz tho, you have no pistol or open fist, so you are stuck with PK on a MANZ unit to my understanding.

So does that mean biker nobs could choose to beat their enemies to death with sluggas if they decided I3 was more important than SP 2 S8 in close combat?

This could be a very handy ability if it's true. I know there are times where I would've rather just beat a guy to death with my warboss's bare hands than bother with the extreme overkill of the powerklaw. (for example, fighting some guy who has a crazy axe or fist type weapon that might wound me, on the charge I've got something like 5-6 S6 hits with the slugga anyways, that's usually plenty to kill a guy and avoid any wounds)

I'm fairly sure that's illegal. If you have a special weapon, unless you have anouther one, you can't elect not to use the weapon. Like you can't just not use your power weapons in an assualt so that you drag the assault out for one turn.

Is this written somewhere in the rulebook ?

Page 51 BRB
More than one weapon
If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows - he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different melee weapons. However it is worth noting that if a model has two or more melee weapons he gains +1 attacks in close combat.

Pistols as close combat weapons
A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon, If this id done, use the profile given above - The strength, ap and special rules of the pistol's shooting profile are ignored.

and of course the profile referred to is
close combat weapon range - S user AP - Type Melee

So yeah... I would say if you have a slugga and a power claw you can choose to beat you opponent with the slugga on your faster I phase, but thats only really usefull if you can swing first or at the same time as on i2 or i3. If you are going 2nd anyway there is no reason not to use the power claw.

I don't own the 6th edition rulebook, but I'm pretty sure it is he same. You can choose to use a different weapon, but you can't choose not to use your weapon. Of course, as others have pointed out, the warboss still has a slugga, so he can use that. As long as you didn't claim the extra attack from close combat, you should be fine.

More stuffs to consider.
BRB PG 60
Power Klaw
Range - Sx2 AP2 Type Melee, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy

BRB PG 42
Specialist Weapon: A model fighting with this weapon does not receive the +1 attack for fighting with two weapons unless both weapons have the specialist weapon rule.

BRB pg 43
Unwieldy: A model attacking with this weapon does so at initiative step 1, unless it is a monstrous creature or a walker.

SO power klaw does not gain +1 attack from slugga as the slugga is not a "specialist weapon"
HOWEVER
if you do have a slugga and power klaw, you do get to choose which one to attack with because unwieldy clearly says "a model attacking with" and not "a model equiped with"
Either way you dont get the +1 attack for 2 weps because PK is a specialist weapon and slugga is not

 keltikhoa wrote:
More stuffs to consider.
BRB PG 60
Power Klaw
Range - Sx2 AP2 Type Melee, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy

BRB PG 42
Specialist Weapon: A model fighting with this weapon does not receive the +1 attack for fighting with two weapons unless both weapons have the specialist weapon rule.

BRB pg 43
Unwieldy: A model attacking with this weapon does so at initiative step 1, unless it is a monstrous creature or a walker.

SO power klaw does not gain +1 attack from slugga as the slugga is not a "specialist weapon"
HOWEVER
if you do have a slugga and power klaw, you do get to choose which one to attack with because unwieldy clearly says "a model attacking with" and not "a model equiped with"
Either way you dont get the +1 attack for 2 weps because PK is a specialist weapon and slugga is not

Well yeah we all know that. We're talking about choosing between your power klaw and your slugga in combat. By choosing the slugga, you can beat an enemy to death that's wielding an unwieldy weapon as well.

A warboss for example has I4. He could easily keep up with most common infantry, and besides, the only time I would really use said slugga in close combat would be against a dude with a fist, to allow me to have a decent chance of beating him to death before he can swing and put an easy wound on the boss. So even if I'm just I2, that's more than enough to beat another unwieldy opponent.

@ MrMoustaffa
Yes I realize that, see my post prior to that one talking about multiple weapons and choosing. Valminder had asked it if was written anywhere in the BRB and I provided that, Then Loota boy stated about not using the +1 attack and that he had no 6th brb, so I provided the 2nd post talking about not getting the +1 attack

 keltikhoa wrote:
@ MrMoustaffa
Yes I realize that, see my post prior to that one talking about multiple weapons and choosing. Valminder had asked it if was written anywhere in the BRB and I provided that, Then Loota boy stated about not using the +1 attack and that he had no 6th brb, so I provided the 2nd post talking about not getting the +1 attack

Oh ok, my bad. I didn't realize that's what you were speaking about.

As said, much ado about nothing.

If you have a slugga and a power klaw, and you want to pistol whip someone's face in, and your opponent says you have to use your klaw, as them what page that rule can be found on.

And then go buy some soda or have a smoke while he spends the next 10 minutes not finding it.

10) M.A.Nz ignore power weapons...

Can someone please elaborate on this?

25) ... MC vs 30 boyz, 5 rerolls????

If there was an IC wouldn't it be 6 rerolls? Or maybee mat is refering to the nob swinging.
I thought monstrous creatures couldn't be challenged, or am I making things up?