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I was more thinking of the fact that it denies you the use of your Painboy in a Nobz unit.

It's not much, but it is 3-4 Poison attacks.

Challenges make me angry..

Well, the reason to have a painboy is to grant the FnP and the 5+ invuls. If you deny the challenge, you don't lose either.

Your Nobs will be doing the vast majority of the damage, so it's no real loss. The poison attacks have rarely helped me regardless

NamelessBard wrote:
Yep, they are not great in a challenge. As to why would you accept the challenge? I don't really have an answer for that.

Biker Painboyz do ok in challenges though. It's at least 3 WS5 S4 attacks that re-roll to wound against most things, and you get Toughness 5, 2 wounds and a 5++ save followed by a 5+ FnP against Power weapons. Unless you're facing Abaddon, they odds are in your favor. I killed a Chaos Biker Sergent with Mark of Khorne yesterday with my Painboy, and I wasn't even the one charging.

TedNugent wrote:
I've been reading through the rulebook again and I caught a couple of things that really worry me.

One, Painboyz are characters? Sounds like they could just get picked off in challenges...

Two, this whole Focus Fire thing and per model cover save rules - good lord, how the hell does anybody fit 20-30 Ork Boyz behind a piece of cover? Is it even possible to fit 20 models within a 6" KFF bubble?

You can simply turn down the challenge. Its a painboy, amongst Nobz, his attacks wont be missed, his squad buffs WILL be missed.


Also, I dont mind focus fire at all. Sure you cant fit all 20-30 boyz in cover, BUT focus fire wounds DO NOT pour over into the rest of the squad. So if your squad takes 15 wounds, and only 10 were the focus fire targets, then those 5 extra wounds go into the ground. So really, thats a plus.

sirlynchmob wrote:

TedNugent wrote:
I've been reading through the rulebook again and I caught a couple of things that really worry me.

One, Painboyz are characters? Sounds like they could just get picked off in challenges...

Two, this whole Focus Fire thing and per model cover save rules - good lord, how the hell does anybody fit 20-30 Ork Boyz behind a piece of cover? Is it even possible to fit 20 models within a 6" KFF bubble?

you just need 1 model within 6" of the KFF and the whole unit gets the 5+.

remember to watch out for people maneuvering shooters into firing lanes at that 1-2 boys within 6" of KFF... firing with that squad first, killing the boyz barely out of KFF range, then firing on them with a larger squad b.

It hasn't happened to me many times, but i learned the importance of not spreading out too much when I Have the KFF unless I have their firing lanes blocked

skyfi wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

TedNugent wrote:
I've been reading through the rulebook again and I caught a couple of things that really worry me.

One, Painboyz are characters? Sounds like they could just get picked off in challenges...

Two, this whole Focus Fire thing and per model cover save rules - good lord, how the hell does anybody fit 20-30 Ork Boyz behind a piece of cover? Is it even possible to fit 20 models within a 6" KFF bubble?

you just need 1 model within 6" of the KFF and the whole unit gets the 5+.

remember to watch out for people maneuvering shooters into firing lanes at that 1-2 boys within 6" of KFF... firing with that squad first, killing the boyz barely out of KFF range, then firing on them with a larger squad b.

It hasn't happened to me many times, but i learned the importance of not spreading out too much when I Have the KFF unless I have their firing lanes blocked

That's actually quite brilliant and useful advise. Thanks!

skyfi wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

TedNugent wrote:
I've been reading through the rulebook again and I caught a couple of things that really worry me.

One, Painboyz are characters? Sounds like they could just get picked off in challenges...

Two, this whole Focus Fire thing and per model cover save rules - good lord, how the hell does anybody fit 20-30 Ork Boyz behind a piece of cover? Is it even possible to fit 20 models within a 6" KFF bubble?

you just need 1 model within 6" of the KFF and the whole unit gets the 5+.

remember to watch out for people maneuvering shooters into firing lanes at that 1-2 boys within 6" of KFF... firing with that squad first, killing the boyz barely out of KFF range, then firing on them with a larger squad b.

It hasn't happened to me many times, but i learned the importance of not spreading out too much when I Have the KFF unless I have their firing lanes blocked

ya I see what you're saying. I run my blobs like a yin/yang symbol so the ones from the non-kff mob wraps in behind the kff mob to minimize that hazard.

This is another reason why I REALLY enjoy the new rules for shooting in 6th. Excellent system, really makes you think on more angles then before

On a side note.. anyone else noticed that the flakk trakk n aeronautica doesn't come with a flakk gun...nor can it be bought the upgrade or swap it for any of its existing wargear.

Some big mek somewhere is good at convincin' dem forge world boyz dat big shootaz are dead good at hittin' dem planes.

How comfortable are dakka players about fielding stuff from auronautica in normal 40k games - forge world stuff always seems to have a mixed reception.

I've built a few flakk trukks and am weighing them up against the aegeis defence line.. AV10 vs T7... seem unlikely to survive as long.

I'm actually seriously looking at some more Forgeworld units. The Battlewagon with a Supa Kannon particularly, since it seems like a nice addition to a longer ranged shooty Ork list. Fill it with a minium unit of Lootas, turn three into meks, give the wagon an 'Ard Case upgrade, and you have a rather solid long range firing platform. Used in a list with lots of lootas, a SAG, and Big Guns, one has a very nice amount of longer ranged firepower. (it's a 70pt 60" str9 ap3 ordnance large blast, which lowers transport capacity to 6)

I'm also growing increasingly interested in the Lifta Droppa - particularly considering how deadly it's potentially become in 6th. (D3 pens or D6 glances!?). I'd generally be very interested to hear how other players have found them in play.

As for Aeronautica... the Flakka Trukk is interesting, as it can go flat out and fire it's weapons as normal, but at 75pts at a model is seems a bit steep, particularly considering you'll be getting a better result out of lootas for the same price as two of these.

The Attack Fighta is actually interesting, particularly in its ability to fire 3 str8 shots at fliers - but again you're hitting on 5+. It's *touching* on what I would prefer the Blitza Bomma to be, having rokkits, though.

The Flakk Trakk can actually put out a lot of firewpower, and is quite tough by Ork standards. Not sure if it's worth 90pts a pop, though.

Owning 2 Supa Kannon I can advocate their use as a very handy addition to the shooty side of Ork lists.

It's nice, though the extra cost might better be spent on lootas to go inside the wagon.

About putting meks in vehicles; do all Mek's Tools rolls have to happen at the same time? For instance if I have 3 meks in a wagon that's lost a hull point. I might not want all 3 of my meks working to fix one HP, especially since each extra roll is another chance to shake the wagon. My guts tell me I probably have to roll all at once, but I'm hoping there's an excuse to do it one at a time.

They happen when the unit opts to fire, so it would be simultaneous.

Nope.avi

They happen before the Shooting phase (or at the start of, or whatever- before the actual Dakka happens) and so you can, I believe, do them one at a time- if you manage the fix you wanted, then the rest of them can go ahead and shoot whatever they're shooting.

Played a game today using Orks + Necron allies against Guard/SW.

Now I'm curious: Any good modelling ideas for Orky Scarab Swarms? My though was to use the Warhammer Snotlings.

Dr. What wrote:
Played a game today using Orks + Necron allies against Guard/SW.

Now I'm curious: Any good modelling ideas for Orky Scarab Swarms? My though was to use the Warhammer Snotlings.

Snotlings are a great choice. Otherwise, squigs.

Or the old-school necron scarabs.

Those things always looked more orky to me, probably due to the rivets

I'd use goblins/grots wearing tiny power claws and jump packs.

 Clang wrote:
I'd use goblins/grots wearing tiny power claws and jump packs.

This better be in the new Codex.

Definitely squigs, there aren't nearly enough squigs in 40k. Besides, scarabs are supposed to be Fearless, and snotlings definitely don't fit the bill. Unless you're using Grotsnik and give them cyborky heads.

Also, thanks Anvildude, that seems like a solid enough argument for doing tools one at a time.

Anvildude wrote:
Nope.avi

They happen before the Shooting phase (or at the start of, or whatever- before the actual Dakka happens) and so you can, I believe, do them one at a time- if you manage the fix you wanted, then the rest of them can go ahead and shoot whatever they're shooting.

The rule reads as such (including FAQ amendment):

”In each of your Shooting phases, instead of firing his weapons, a Mekboy may choose to repair a single friendly vehicle that he is in base contact with or embarked upon. Roll a D6 – if the result is a 4 or more, you may restore a Hull Point lost earlier in the battle, or repair a Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result suffered earlier in the battle; this is effective immediately. This could allow a previously destroyed weapon to fire in that shooting phase. On the roll of a 1, the Mek gets a bit carried away and the vehicle counts as shaken

There is no mention of the roll being done prior to, or at the start of the shooting phase: it takes place during the shooting phase, when the unit with the Mek(s) is firing (during which the mek can opt to repair instead of firing). Since an entire firing action is done simultaneously, the Mek's rolls would be simultaneous.

It works the same way as Bomb Squigs, which are released by models whom do so instead of firing.

 Clang wrote:
I'd use goblins/grots wearing tiny power claws and jump packs.

WHERE IS MY BITZ BOX? I NEED IT NOW!

Seriously, that is the best idea for Ork allies I've heard so far,

Yeah, it's something I've considered as well. Snotlings as scarbs. You'll need a big fat mommy ork though to be spiders and then use the clanking destroyers from Kromlech as troops.
Let us know any spider ideas! I think I'd rather loot a monolith anyway.

I did that once but for som reason I can't find any pictures of it in the gallery.

How about a looted vehicle that is cover with moss/fungus as a spider?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The looted vehicle has a claw on it so that it grabs the dead orks from the field so that instead of the fungus being spread elsewhere on the world it's forcedcto colonize in that vehicle thus spawning grots!

That could be good. A Grot driving something like a BobCat but instead of a plow on the front, it would have a boon arm or similar for the klaws on the Spider. That could be fun

We came to the conclusion that Meganobz made from terminator armors was not orkish enough ... too smallish we said.

But what about Megagrotz ... terminator armor, grot head, mechanical Kromlech arm for a klam and mechanical arm to hold a shoota !!!!

 Kharrak wrote:

Anvildude wrote:
Nope.avi

They happen before the Shooting phase (or at the start of, or whatever- before the actual Dakka happens) and so you can, I believe, do them one at a time- if you manage the fix you wanted, then the rest of them can go ahead and shoot whatever they're shooting.

The rule reads as such (including FAQ amendment):

”In each of your Shooting phases, instead of firing his weapons, a Mekboy may choose to repair a single friendly vehicle that he is in base contact with or embarked upon. Roll a D6 – if the result is a 4 or more, you may restore a Hull Point lost earlier in the battle, or repair a Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result suffered earlier in the battle; this is effective immediately. This could allow a previously destroyed weapon to fire in that shooting phase. On the roll of a 1, the Mek gets a bit carried away and the vehicle counts as shaken

There is no mention of the roll being done prior to, or at the start of the shooting phase: it takes place during the shooting phase, when the unit with the Mek(s) is firing (during which the mek can opt to repair instead of firing). Since an entire firing action is done simultaneously, the Mek's rolls would be simultaneous.

It works the same way as Bomb Squigs, which are released by models whom do so instead of firing.

Ah. The Cursed FAQ. In the book, it's specifically before the Shooting phase (or whatever). Well, sorry about that!

 valminder wrote:
We came to the conclusion that Meganobz made from terminator armors was not orkish enough ... too smallish we said.

But what about Megagrotz ... terminator armor, grot head, mechanical Kromlech arm for a klam and mechanical arm to hold a shoota !!!!

Yea I wouldnt mind seeing a Grot in terminator armor, because comparing the two, the size difference is great. But on an Ork....I mean the thighs along make that conversion look goofy