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I never run my KFF without a BW anymore. Honestly, I never run foot sloggers anymore.
It comes down to laziness more than anything, because I really don't like moving mobz of boyz around. It also means that the army is more mobile, better protected, HQ is immune to sniping, KFF has more range, and I don't need to worry about placement or fitting everyone in cover for focus fire concerns.
I know I picked a horde army, but sixth really doesn't feel as Green Tide friendly as 5th was.
I'll sadly admit that I'm a mech player now, when I used to think that mech was for sissies and players with too much money. Oh how things change!

 matphat wrote:
I never run my KFF without a BW anymore. Honestly, I never run foot sloggers anymore.
It comes down to laziness more than anything, because I really don't like moving mobz of boyz around. It also means that the army is more mobile, better protected, HQ is immune to sniping, KFF has more range, and I don't need to worry about placement or fitting everyone in cover for focus fire concerns.
I know I picked a horde army, but sixth really doesn't feel as Green Tide friendly as 5th was.
I'll sadly admit that I'm a mech player now, when I used to think that mech was for sissies and players with too much money. Oh how things change!

a horde of vehicles is still a horde

 matphat wrote:
I never run my KFF without a BW anymore. Honestly, I never run foot sloggers anymore.
It comes down to laziness more than anything, because I really don't like moving mobz of boyz around. It also means that the army is more mobile, better protected, HQ is immune to sniping, KFF has more range, and I don't need to worry about placement or fitting everyone in cover for focus fire concerns.
I know I picked a horde army, but sixth really doesn't feel as Green Tide friendly as 5th was.
I'll sadly admit that I'm a mech player now, when I used to think that mech was for sissies and players with too much money. Oh how things change!

I feel the same way. I have alwasy leaned towards mech versus the green tide anyways. I will run maybe 1 30 man shoota unit just to sit on a home objective. My experience is more people are playing gunlines and have faster moving units has helped greatly against that. I have even been using some of the Imperial Armour 8 forgeworld rules and have added a mekboy junka to the mix, that now gives me a 4th defrolla.

Orkz iz Lotz a fingz.

Ork'z iz Green.

Orkz iz Best.

Orkz iz neva looz.

Orkz iz Call Da Boyz!

Orkz iz Choppy.

Orkz iz DakkaDakkaDakkaDakkaDakka.

Orkz iz Fast.

Orkz iz Klanky.

Orkz iz WAAAAAAAGHH!!

I did a 1k game earlier and I have to say the star of the match were my deffkoptas.
I took 2 units of 2 rokkitkoptas, one buzz saw in each and the 12" redeploy works great for multiple reasons.
Now the Jink rule states that the unit must have moved in order to get the cover save.
Earlier in the thread I talked about the tactical advantages of going second, especially for units w/ scout/infiltrate.
I used the 12" scout redeploy to put them into area terrain. In 5th it would have forced dangerous terrain tests, but in 6th it does not due to the deliberate wording of the rule. Redeploying is not moving, so that means nothing like turbo boosting shenanigans, but since they are not actually moving they don't have to take dangerous terrain until they move into, out of, or through the terrain. Since I'm not moving, I don't get Jink. This is why I put them into the cover
The koptas went 12" into terrain, I had went second and I was able to shut down a small area of the board as a vehicle trap. My opponent needed to move his predator forwards in order to deny bonuses to night fighting for his targets, and then one 2 man squad took out a predator on turn one. First blood, and took out some serious anti horde firepower that he had.
I know this tactic will not always work, but what it does do is gives you slightly more control of the board.

It's like the rushing strategy in counter strike. U don't rush to get kills, you rush to take that area away from the enemy letting your team move up with the bomb (or the meganobz) unopposed. It is almost a win-win. If they move up they die, if they don't, you have successfully "taken" that ground.

I'm gonna try Biker boss with a unit of 2 deff koptas and another unit of 3-4 deffkoptas with 1 buzzsaw this weekend outflanking and attempting to pop some transports. Against Armor 10 I'm hoping mass twin linked Big Shoota fire will work for me, if not I'll use the PK on the boss or a buzz saw or two in the other unit. Can you pop a Chimera or Rhino in the shooting phase and then charge it's remaining occupants?

 Wingeds wrote:
Can you pop a Chimera or Rhino in the shooting phase and then charge it's remaining occupants?

I believe so

 Billagio wrote:

 Wingeds wrote:
Can you pop a Chimera or Rhino in the shooting phase and then charge it's remaining occupants?

I believe so

Any unit that shot it that turn can charge the now disembarked passengers

page 80 last sentence of last paragraph for transports

Alright cool. I wasnt sure on the page number and dont have my rulebook on me. Usually dosent come up alot in my games.

Hey guys, I'm thinking about using some Orks as allies for my Imperial Guard army.
I have a few Ork units I have been trying to make into an army, but I haven't played Orks ever before, so I was thinking if I start playing them as allies, I will get more motivation for painting them and finishing the army at some point.

So far I have a converted rokkit wartrakk(painted), a 12 strong slugga squad w. PK Nob (nicely painted) and a trukk (ram, paintjob, boarding plank), an uassembled BW with extra sprue and all the Ork models from AoBR (where the sluggas come from). I also have 20 unassembled boyz and a box of metal tankbustas (5), a painboy and a KFF Big Mek.

I really want to keep the Orks in a Kult of Speed theme, with deffkoptas, buggies/trakks, a looted wagon, and perhaps with a bommer of some sort later on. All the infantry should either be mounted in trukks or battlewagons to fit the theme.

Initially I was thinking about something along the lines of:

Allies of convenience

DA BLITZA BOYS!

HQ
Warboss Blitza
Power klaw
Shoota
Stikkbombz
Cybork body
Bosspole

Troops
Madrok's Mob
12 Slugga boyz
Nob
Power klaw
'Eavy armour
Bosspole

Dedicated transport
Trukk
Red paint job
Boarding plank
Reinforced ram

Troops
Blitza's Boyz
6x Nobs
5x Big choppas
Painboy
6 Cybork bodies

Dedicated transport
'Ol Betty
Battlewagon
Deff rolla
Red paint job
Grot riggers
Armour plates
Big shoota

Fast attack
Wartrakk
Twin-linked rokkit launcher

In total 647pts.

I would field these guys together with (roughly) a plasma CCS in chimera, 2x Meltavets in chimeras, a 25 man assault infantry platoon (Commisar, power swords, flamers), a bane wolf and 2x HF scout sentinels.to match the theme of a mechanized assault army. The list is 1600 points in total with lots of mobile scoring units.

The vets pop tanks and transports, and the Orks deal with the contents. The CCS+Bane Wolf deal with MC's or heavy infantry. The sentinels do backfield disruption and the platoon tie down anything that try to slip past or capture, and otherwise capture and draw fire itself.

The meta i play in is quite relaxed army wise and nobody play power lists or spam flyers. I might encounter a single enemy flyer at 1600 points, but otherwise we try to field lists that are take all comers. We like to play painted and fully WYSIWYG, and we use an army selection system that prevents the armies from becoming too spammy or powerful.

May I suggest adding this to the first page of the thread:

Necron allies are favorable for plugging long range anti-tank as well as complementing fast armies and giving further air support.

Thanks Dr. but I've closed the OP to updates unless a new FAQ drops. I'm considering creating an article with the information that has accrued, if someone wants to help round it all up.

Anyone care to help me weigh pros and cons of using flash gitz in 6th edition? I'm planning on making some to take for a spin, and i've made a thread for discussing the subject here-http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/493942.page

You still get a close combat expert (with all attached costs) with a gun instead of a close combat weapon. The very foundation of their design is flawed, nothing in 6th changed that.

 Jidmah wrote:
You still get a close combat expert (with all attached costs) with a gun instead of a close combat weapon. The very foundation of their design is flawed, nothing in 6th changed that.

It's kinda why Noise Marines aren't used that much either. They basically have a close combat profile (WS4, S4, T4, I5, grenades and bolt pistols) and some specialist ranged weapons, which makes them very expensive.

 Jidmah wrote:
You still get a close combat expert (with all attached costs) with a gun instead of a close combat weapon. The very foundation of their design is flawed, nothing in 6th changed that.

Yup, now like Ive said for years now, if they would of made a profile that reflected a Nob, that focused on shooting instead of fighting, then they would be immensely better for the points. If they had say 2 shots standard and either BS3 or TL even, THEN suddenly the points are much better. Again, hope for it to be righted in the next dex, and I say it just might, since 6th is a shooters edition, where as 5th was a punchers edition.....or 4+ everything edition. Either way

Maybe I missed it in here, but I thought someone had a game vs. dark panzees and asked for some general advice, having never played them before?


Imagine there will be

lillith
gobs of dark lances
incubi?
dudes on the flying stands / hover skate boards
skimming pirate ships full o dudes
and a flyer


playing 1999+1



I run 2 wagons/2 trukks/3 loota mobs/jet/small manz squad/small nob biker squad/biker and megaboss/some kopters and kannons (have 150 points to add)


Familiarizing myself with DE tactica on my coffee break at work currently...





What say you orkz?

I'm building a dark eldar army, so I can point out stuff you can look for. The flyer is probably a razorwing jet fighter, which can pump out 4 strength 6 ap 5 large templates. Since he will be fielding lots of AV 10, brings lots of things that can kill it. Knocking out his transports will be the key to winning, as his DE are squishy and will die in droves to vehicle explosions. His hellions won't be too much of an issue; they strike first, but can't really do too much damage unless there are tons of them.

Also, if he has Trueborn, he'll most likely be running some sort of lances on them; focus on killing these first; ravagers are also nasty, so kill them ASAP. Incubi can be nasty in CC, so try to avoid it unless you know you can kill them. If you can kill off his transports, you can easily clean up the rest. So I'd probably bring lots of Lootas, Big shootas, Kannons, and possibly Deffkoptas. Deffrollas are nice, but you probably won't use them too much, as they need to be close and a smart DE player won't let you get near him.

Sorry for a lot of Q's but here I go...

1. Razorwing, can it fire 4 blasts per turn? all on same target?
2. I figure anything with a dark lance gets shot at and killed asap. my 3 squads of 5 lootas should drop 1-3 transports when I finally volley. kannons another.

3. as far for his melee prowess goes.. anything he will bring that is an AP2 or ap3 weapon? Does he have any AP2 that strike at at init. like warscythes?

4. Trueborns hm. what other type of guns? do they have 4+ saves or? I assume T3? No bonuses to cover right?

5. What makes incubi tought in melee? What kind of weapons/saves/Toughness do they have? Typically I send my MANZ after things like power sword toting death company, and biker nobz torwards things that hit at S8 with fists/hammers. Can I just swam them with boys?

I had dropped the 2 rollas off my list and added a 4th nob biker, dropped a few other upgrades here and there and 1 deffkopta (down to a lone rokkit kopta) and added 5 more lootas (making 5 x 3) from my normal 1850 list


Planned on shooting my small arms at what falls out of transports, or his quick moving jet bike things (not sure what they are called... like dudes riding a surfboard, on a small flyer base... bout 10-20 deep) not sure what these are or what role they fulfill.


Sorry for all the Q's... Figure it shouldn't be TOO tough.. don't let him lance my meganobz down etc

The razorwing only has 4 blasts total.
Incubi are AP2, and strength 4. While they will remove the save on your MANZ, you should wipe them when you strike, as they only have a 3+ save and are T3, so you'll be able to instadeath them. You could also shoot them.
Trueborns will 90% of the time use some sort of lance. Shoot them first, same with Ravagers. Shoot Lelith also, as you do not want anything to be in CC with her (has a 3+ invun save in CC.) Granted, she doesn't have a very high strength, but she can get crazy amounts of attacks and reduces your attack by one in CC, plus she ignores armor saves. Almost all DE have T3, so they will die fast.

If you want a entertaining tactica to read:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Dark_Eldar

You can fire two missiles per turn max. Like other fliers, it can carry four.

Except da Burna Bomma, wot getz six.. Orks do everyfing wiv moar dakka!

Now if only we didn't have to pay through the nose for each inefffective and inaccurate missile...

The Razorwing used to be beastly. Able to hover, could fire four missiles, a splinter cannon and two disintegrators at the same time....

These days it's decidedly meh for its points, especially when you look at the undercosted and/or overgunned flyers the other factions get :(

How do people run nobz in battlewagons? Do they totally kit them out, or do they run them fairly cheap? I was looking at taking a squad, and was thinking of running one of these two:


Deathstar Nobz:
10x Nobz, 3x Powerklaws, Painboy, all Cyborks, Waagh! banner, Bosspole, 4x Big Choppas = 395 pts

Cheap Nobz:
10x Nobz, 'Heavy armor, 5x Big Choppas, Waagh! Banner, BP = 295 pts


What are your thoughts on these squads? I feel the Deathstar Nobz would perform significantly better.

The last time I ran them I had 8-9 with a pain boy, cybork, PK, BC and waagh banner. If I have the points I'll try to fit a combi scorcha and boss pole. But I also run my KFF Big Mek so if they ride together they'll have a boss pole and walking cover. I try to keep them cheaper so as not to deathstar. Saving those points allow another buggy or kopta...all in how you build your list right?

In 6th, due to lack of Shenanigans and Nobz no longer being a squad of Characters, there's really no point in kitting them out- use them like 'arder than normal Boyz- maybe add a PK in with your 'cheapo' setup (or just leave them with the Big Choppas- that actually ought to be fine) and smash them into stuff without expecting them to survive as long as they used to. Kit out the battlewagon decently as well, too.

If you don't kit them out, why take them in first place? Painboy, Waagh! Banner and the second PK is what makes them better than boyz, if you don't want that, you shouldn't take them.

You will be hard pressed to fit in four battlewagons below 2000, at which point I have run much better with just opening op the second FOC and getting another battlewagon as heavy support option (filled with boyz, burnaz, tank bustaz or lootaz). Below 2000 I prefer taking biker nobz over battlewagon nobz, as they are more mobile and harder to remove, especially with battlewagons around to provide LoS blocking.

HQ:
KFF Mek = 85 pts
Warboss, PK, BP, 'eavy armor, Cybork, Attack Squig


Elites:
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Nob Bikers, All Cyborks, Waagh Banner, BP, Painboy, 2x PK, 1 BC = 355 pts
Total: 505 pts

Troops:
19x Boyz, Choppa, Nob + BP + PK = 154 pts
19x Boyz, Shootas, Nob + BP + PK = 154 pts
10x Grots, Runtherd = 40 pts
10x Nobz, 3x PK, Painboy, Cyborks, Waagh Banner!, BP, 3x BC = 390 pts
Total: 754 pts

Heavy:
Battlewagon, RPJ, Grot Riggers, 2x BS, Deffrolla = 130 pts
Battlewagon, RPJ, Grot Riggers, 2x BS, Deffrolla = 130 pts
Battlewagon, RPJ, Grot Riggers, 2x BS, Deffrolla = 130 pts
Total: 390 pts

That was the main idea for my list. Not sure how well it would perform, but I think it would be fun to play. Main question was to see how people ran thier nobz in battlewagons, as I wasn't sure how to kit mine out.

I use meganobs, so I can't really say too much about the regular kind.

I would take the banner, painboy and cyborks though and probably a bosspole if they aren't being lead by an IC.
At 20 points each they are more than three times the cost of a boy, so running them as tougher boys simply isn't going to cut it. Take advantage of their extra gear.

Incidentally, my 1.5k list is two mobs of meganobs and two mobs of lootas all in wagons.

I played against Nids last night and had a x5 MANz mob in a typical gunwagon. Jeeze they fething wreck face in 6th They got out, murdered a decent size brood of spawned gants, then were assaulted by the nearby Tervigon, and promptly torn to shreds, then went and charged a 2nd tervigon and murdered that one as well. If the game were to continue, they would of surely butchered the gant brood near the 2nd tervigon. Granted they were taking wounds easily from those Tervigons, but they still just out classed the beasts. Cant wait to give this same unit a go at some MEQs, those will be far more juicy IMO, I just have this hatred for Space Marines, I enjoy watching them squirm



But I used my 1850 AV10 spam against the Nid player last night, and it was a great match, we kicked each others asses and there were units on every inch of the table it seemed like. We played the way Reecius and his crew do with using 2 missions at the same time. My buddy definitely got the better of me on special objectives, he got Slay the Warlord, line breaker, first blood and a couple objectives, but I tied him by killing off a bunch of units and hold more higher point objectives. We had to call it at the end of turn 4, but we were both sitting on 15 victory points and both of us had a ton of units left, so if we had the time to continue those points would of been WAY higher.

Very fun match, and even against Nids, my AV10 spam seems to work rather nicely, I cant drive by PK anything, but the buggies just work SOooooooooooo nicely. I had only 6 this time, but they hauled ass as fast as possible, and after turning sideways and using terrain, blocked off the entire center of the board. And against spawned gants, I didnt have to worry too much about glances as they just didnt have the shots to really do much damage. Its was sweet

ive thought about the non-biker Nobz a few times but honestly i dont see a use for them unless im dealing with stuff that tends to squash bikers, but bikers are still the best thing for it due to cheap masses of Str6 Bigchoppas or PKs (cheap as in not 1 per 30 boyz lol)

With 35pts you can get a trukk to move 11 + 1 nob squad into position fairly easy, but the problem is after they do their thing theyre stranded unless your opponent stupidly cornered himself. Kind of the same issue with MANz but atleast MANz have insane survivability, nobz dont.
---
Now for a question of my own. Isnt there some rule somewhere where orks can loot any vehicle, use its weapons, but only have Ork BS rather than normal? Or is this forcing us to take an ally now to do this? I ask because i feel like our vehicles have no punch aside from the MANz inside due to the pathetic rear armor (and lot of my friends love the deepstrike/droppod crap)