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So I was finishing building my first mob of warbikers last night when I had a sudden, and very worrying, epiphany. My store has several Daemon players, and all of them take tons of flamers.

What on earth is a predominately ork biker army going to do against a unit that is literally tailor made to kill them? i've got no cover, no armor, no way to outrun them, and probably wont have the numbers to take the hits either.

Other than taking a mob of gretchin or boys to take the initial hit, I'm not really sure what I can do other than refuse to play daemons or tailor my list, two options I REALLY dont want to consider.

Here's an idea of what I was planning on building towards at a 1,000pts. The general core of this list would be expanded for larger games, with lootas, dakkajets, more bikers, and maybe a mob of biker nobs and a biker boss.

+ HQ + (180pts)

* Wazdakka Gutsmek (180pts)

+ Troops + (620pts)

* Warbikers (Troops) (190pts)
6x Warbiker
* Nob
Bosspole, Power Klaw

* Warbikers (Troops) (215pts)
7x Warbiker
* Nob
Bosspole, Power Klaw

* Warbikers (Troops) (215pts)
7x Warbiker
* Nob
Bosspole, Power Klaw

+ Fast Attack + (200pts)

* Dakkajet (130pts)
Extra Supa Shoota, Fighta Ace

* x2 Deffkoptas (70pts)
* Deffkopta
Twin-Linked Big Shootas
* Deffkopta
Twin-Linked Big Shootas

 valminder wrote:
Haaaa!! Grey Knights ... by turn 3 I had nothing left on the table ...

Its not much of a comfort, but you are not alone.

This is what I had left on the table by turn three in the last tourney I played... the dice shows how many wounds the boss had taken. So one single wound warboss... -.-

None of you should feel bad about losing to GK. It's a top tier army with massive horde killing potential vs. a 4th Ed. Codex. Orks aren't weak, but they certainly have weaknesses. GK can exploit them.

On the other hand, I played BA this last weekend and really stomped them flat.

2k points, Purge the alien, Vanguard deployment.

My list.

HQ:
Warboss w/ PK, Warbike, Cybork, Attack Squig - [150]
Big Mek w/ KFF, cybork - [95]
[245]

Elite:
10 Lootas - [150]
5 Lootas - [75]
5 Lootas - [75]
[300]

Troops
6 Nob Warbikers w/ Painboy and Orderly, 2 PK, 2 BC, Cybork, BP, Waaagh Banner - [415]
19 Shoota Boyz w/ 1 Big Shoota - [119]
20 Shoota Boyz w/ 2 Big Shootas - [130]
[664]

Fast Attack:
Dakkajet w/Supa Shoota - [120]
Dakkajet w/Supa Shoota - [120]
3 Wartrakk w/ RPJ, TL rokkits - [135]
[375]

Heavy:
Battle Wagon w/ Deffrolla, RPJ, 3x Rokkits - [145]
Battle Wagon w/ Deffrolla, RPJ, 3x Rokkits - [145]
3 Big Gun Kannonz w/ 3 grotz per gun - [69]
[359]

Fortification:
Aegis Defense Line - [50]

[1993]

Orks win! 14-2 VP.

What did the BA have?

with 7 points to spare why didnt you add another big shoota to one battlewagon? or 'eavy armor for the big mek... ahh heck those 5 points could help out

Why Wartrakks? I've always found Deffkoptas to be much better.

Yea I find Wartrakks to be too costly for what you get out of them. Thats the price of another DAKKAjet, and Id easily put my money on the DAKKAjet to have more kill potential

 virx67 wrote:
What did the BA have?

2 10 man Tacs split
1 Assault /w warlord character
2 Devastators
2 Drop pods
3 Baals outflanking
1 LR


I bring Wartrakks for a number of reasons, One, I like my scratch built models and love seeing them on the field. Two, I like not having to roll leadership, Three, I like area denial with the large amount of space that a squad of three can take up, and lastly, I always take Wartrakk because my models are trakked, and I like the WYSIWYG aspect of it, and it's never failed to save my butt. I tend to sit my trakks in terrain for a round some times.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KingCracker wrote:
Yea I find Wartrakks to be too costly for what you get out of them. Thats the price of another DAKKAjet, and Id easily put my money on the DAKKAjet to have more kill potential

I don't disagree with this, I actually had another list that was all Jets and no Trakks, but to be honest, I scrapped it. I like the variety, and like having multiple type of threats on the board, and lastly, like I said, I absolutely love my scratch built Trakks. Plus, it's two extra models. I like having MOAR models on the board. AV10 SPAM FTW!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

phatonic wrote:
with 7 points to spare why didnt you add another big shoota to one battlewagon? or 'eavy armor for the big mek... ahh heck those 5 points could help out

Actually, the list I posted was the original. I DID catch that last second, and I did throw another Big Shoota on the lead wagon. =)

 matphat wrote:

I don't disagree with this, I actually had another list that was all Jets and no Trakks, but to be honest, I scrapped it. I like the variety, and like having multiple type of threats on the board, and lastly, like I said, I absolutely love my scratch built Trakks. Plus, it's two extra models. I like having MOAR models on the board. AV10 SPAM FTW!

Correct me if I'm wrong but you can't use Warbuggies as denial units can you? Maybe it's different because they are squadrons? I dunno.

Gylen wrote:

 matphat wrote:

I don't disagree with this, I actually had another list that was all Jets and no Trakks, but to be honest, I scrapped it. I like the variety, and like having multiple type of threats on the board, and lastly, like I said, I absolutely love my scratch built Trakks. Plus, it's two extra models. I like having MOAR models on the board. AV10 SPAM FTW!

Correct me if I'm wrong but you can't use Warbuggies as denial units can you? Maybe it's different because they are squadrons? I dunno.

Well, if it takes up space, then it is denying area. If it is a squadron of large, spread out models, then it is taking up a lot of space. So it is area denial. It isn't like a special rule your have to have.

Ah gotcha, good idea!

Yes, area denial, not objective denial. =)

Right guys for christmass i got a certain amount of cash, so i tought spending some of it on orks and would ask you guys what would be the best way of growing my army?
So imma start by writing up what i got so far and i would love your input what i should get to grow my army

HQ: Weirdboy
Warboss on foot for either 'eavy armor or mega armor
Big mek with Kustom force field.

Troop: 10 gretchin with runthred
100 boyz (shoota/slugga&choppa) allot of proxies
(includes nobz with bosspole&powerklaw)


Ellite: 15 nobz (various weaponary with waagh banner n stuff)
3 Meganobz with kombi skorchas
20 lootas
10 burna boyz

Heavy Suport: 2 looted wagons with big shootas, boom gun, ramshackle
(also avaible to make for transport use)

1 Battlewagon made for transport (big shootas and deff rollah)

3 killa kanz with magnitized weapons

5 flash gitz

Fast attack: Boss zagstruk (oddly enough not any stormboyz yet!)
2 dakkajets with additional supa shoota
3 deffkoptas TL rokkits.
9 warbikers (some converted to nob bikers but proxy proxy)


And at last two normal trukks

So heres my list of what i got so far... as you might allready know i do mostly footslogg here but any pointers would be great! Merry christmass aswell!

Either grab some Stormboyz, or get some Boyz and some Jump Packs (choose your supplier) and make your own.

Reading through a lot of this and I didn't really find an answer to a question I had been looking for.

Are trukk boys just a horrible idea now?

I have yet to get a game in with my orks for 6th but I see a lot of boys on foot. And the one thing I enjoyed about my orks was the fast troop choice of boys in trukks.

Etched In Pride wrote:
Reading through a lot of this and I didn't really find an answer to a question I had been looking for.

Are trukk boys just a horrible idea now?

I have yet to get a game in with my orks for 6th but I see a lot of boys on foot. And the one thing I enjoyed about my orks was the fast troop choice of boys in trukks.

I believe Kingcracker uses a trukk rush style with lots of buggies and other av10 vehicles. Might want to search for his posts.

Alone, a trukker boy mob sucks.

SO make sure they aren't alone...

9 trukks barrelling upfield makes a dent, and if you make sure to assault with several units on one they can still wreck face

Well of course. A lone trukk has always been a bad idea.

Here is a list I came up with. Its pretty much the same as what I ran in 5th..just with a flyer added in.

1k points.

HQ

Warboss W/ Mega Armor, Bosspole, Cybork body = 115

Elites

Lootas X5 = 75

Troops

Nobz X5, Battle Wagon, Deffrolla, Big shoota X2 = 220

Ork boys X12 W/ Nob, Pk, Bosspole, Eavy armor, Trukk = 152

Ork boys X12 W/ Nob, Pk, Bosspole, Eavy armor, Trukk = 152

Ork boys X12 W/ Nob, Pk, Bosspole, Eavy armor, Trukk = 152

Fast Attack

Dakkajet W/ Supa shoota = 120

total = 986

Prolly throw on 2 rams onto two of the trukks with the left over points.

phatonic wrote:
Right guys for christmass i got a certain amount of cash, so i tought spending some of it on orks and would ask you guys what would be the best way of growing my army?
So imma start by writing up what i got so far and i would love your input what i should get to grow my army

I may be in a bit of a minority here, but Id probably start picking up more battle wagons. Ive had great success with them in 6th. Bikers are also really fun.

So far in 6th, Ive only lost 1 battlewagon and that was due to a SPOD of devourer gants dropping in behind it and frigging glancing the piss out of it. All my other games, its been a friggin bunker on wheels

No-one assaulted one?

They go from bunker on wheels to tin can with attached opening key, for me... I still run them, but i lose them to CC far more often than to shooting.

Granted you can shoot the fethers as they assault with an embarked unit, but BW are paper in CC, because of that cruddy rear armour and the fact glances can kill one fast these days.

 Ascalam wrote:
No-one assaulted one?

They go from bunker on wheels to tin can with attached opening key, for me... I still run them, but i lose them to CC far more often than to shooting.

Granted you can shoot the fethers as they assault with an embarked unit, but BW are paper in CC, because of that cruddy rear armour and the fact glances can kill one fast these days.

I never let the, get close enough to CC. 12 inches a round is enough to stop almost any assult if you are careful.

What would guys suggest for a 1,5k competive game?
(most likely a tournament)

 matphat wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
No-one assaulted one?

They go from bunker on wheels to tin can with attached opening key, for me... I still run them, but i lose them to CC far more often than to shooting.

Granted you can shoot the fethers as they assault with an embarked unit, but BW are paper in CC, because of that cruddy rear armour and the fact glances can kill one fast these days.

I never let the, get close enough to CC. 12 inches a round is enough to stop almost any assult if you are careful.

Fair enough,

My local meta is stuffed with fast assault stuff though. Screamers of Tzeentch, Assault marines, Beastmasters, My wife's obscenely lucky Shining Spears...

Plus i favor Deffrolla wagons. If i trash a vehicle it's usually near other vehicles with troops in, as i prefer to be up in my enemy's face Losing wagons is an occupational hazard.

Dakkawagons at range can play keep-away rather better.

I also lose a fair few to Haywyches in venoms. Three venoms zoom up close to a BW. I back away 12 '', while blowing up a venom and killing its crew (maybe two on a good day). They move up 6, drop troops who then move up 6. Then they throw an emp, then charge. BW goes foosh, especially if they have more than one venom left. If i flat out the wagon i don't get to shoot, and odds are they'll reach me anyway.. I'm not complaining, as its a tactic my DE like too

A venom with 5 haywyches doesn't cost much, and when coupled with the dirty good rolling my wife averages at they can be pretty hard to kill before they drops suicide bombers.

Depends on what you might be facing. If its every race, no idea lol i only play against 3 races on average sometimes a 4th, and one is tailored to exploit an issue orks have.
Personally, bikers, Yea what few counters them counters them hardcore but theyre the best overall good model we got. Aside from a LOT of fire hoping for bad rolls, not much straight up shuts them down.

------

My issue with orks in 6th (granted i started playing right after 6th hit so idont know 5th) is it feels like the 2 weaknesses orks have are so massive we cant get around it. One is IG, which i tend to face often.

Armor walls.

That range is rediculous as well as good aim and punch power. Even if i steal initiative i still lose roughly half my army before i get there. Dakkajets get owned by his quads and whatever that other good AA weapon was they got, armor gets owned by leman russes, bikes get owned by sheer volumn of large blast templates and other fire. Since Kommandos suck donkeydick, orks have no way to at least force them to turn around for a turn or two letting me get up there.

The other is lack of a monstrous creature. Personally i feel this is a big letdown because of the sheer durability they tend to have, we lack except Ghazzy but hes too slow once his trukk goes boom. MEQs, Nids, and necrons all have something that is very durable, packs a punch, and is either mobile on its own or has rules you can buy/use to get it around. We have slow and purposeful, which is a kick in the dick.

So far i play against Blood Angels, Space Marines, IG, Nids, and Necrons and on the rare occation a dark eldar biker force. That ones funny, biker against biker usually.
IG is the only one i cannot win no matter what i bring. That wall is unreachable. I know if i can get there i will decimate it, but i cant get there.

Vineheart01 wrote:
Depends on what you might be facing. If its every race, no idea lol i only play against 3 races on average sometimes a 4th, and one is tailored to exploit an issue orks have.
Personally, bikers, Yea what few counters them counters them hardcore but theyre the best overall good model we got. Aside from a LOT of fire hoping for bad rolls, not much straight up shuts them down.

------

My issue with orks in 6th (granted i started playing right after 6th hit so idont know 5th) is it feels like the 2 weaknesses orks have are so massive we cant get around it. One is IG, which i tend to face often.

Armor walls.

That range is rediculous as well as good aim and punch power. Even if i steal initiative i still lose roughly half my army before i get there. Dakkajets get owned by his quads and whatever that other good AA weapon was they got, armor gets owned by leman russes, bikes get owned by sheer volumn of large blast templates and other fire. Since Kommandos suck donkeydick, orks have no way to at least force them to turn around for a turn or two letting me get up there.

The other is lack of a monstrous creature. Personally i feel this is a big letdown because of the sheer durability they tend to have, we lack except Ghazzy but hes too slow once his trukk goes boom. MEQs, Nids, and necrons all have something that is very durable, packs a punch, and is either mobile on its own or has rules you can buy/use to get it around. We have slow and purposeful, which is a kick in the dick.

So far i play against Blood Angels, Space Marines, IG, Nids, and Necrons and on the rare occation a dark eldar biker force. That ones funny, biker against biker usually.
IG is the only one i cannot win no matter what i bring. That wall is unreachable. I know if i can get there i will decimate it, but i cant get there.

Sounds like your opposition is just exactly the worst case. I play against BA, Eldar, Tau, and Chaos, so I have more old armies to play against. Orks still have some stram, but they are ready for an update and its starting to show. Its still and incredibly fun army though and should survivepretty well till the r,ored update next summer.

Heck, Orks are robust and varied enough that we'd probably be able to weather another Edition change. With decent Erratta, of course.

Anvildude wrote:
Heck, Orks are robust and varied enough that we'd probably be able to weather another Edition change. With decent Erratta, of course.

Honestly, with a Daemon like mini update and a few minor rules changes, I agree.

 matphat wrote:

Anvildude wrote:
Heck, Orks are robust and varied enough that we'd probably be able to weather another Edition change. With decent Erratta, of course.

Honestly, with a Daemon like mini update and a few minor rules changes, I agree.

^^This.

1. Fix WAAAGH!

2. Fix Ghazghkull.

3. Give all Ork vehicles the Exhaust Cloud rule?

4. New psychic powers if possible?

5. Lower the price of the Elite slot Nobz to 16 pts (to fit nob upgrades to Boyz mobz).

6. Initiative boost? (Perhaps WAAAAGH! Grants +1 I?)

7. Kombi-Weapons for Nob squad leaders?

I could deal without the monstrous creature issue, its not mandatory just useful.

But i also agree just a few rule changes or a couple new ones would be wonders.

My blood angels opponent said my meganobs were cheaper terminators. I told him he was full of crap because i cant deepstrike them in a landraider and they arent slow and purposeful. Also, said terminators he was using had a 3+ invul wheras i have a 5 if i take a dok or none if i dont.

Maybe some sort of droppod or the same rule that lets him deepstrike a landraider would solve our issues. Even if it costed an arm and a leg lol