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Also Meganobz are exactly the price of regular Terminators. Not sure about tooled-out BA ones, though.


I think if they allowed Squiggoths as HS and popped Flash Gitz into Elite, we'd have some good times. We already have one of the most dangerous, useful flyers around, and the cheapest (bar none) AV14 in the game (of which we can get upwards of 12 on the field at once!). Our basic troop is still incredibly dangerous either at range or close up.

About the only thing keeping us from top-tier is the lack of ranged anti-tank (and Lootas don't quite cut it). If Tankbustas had some way to split fire....

Reading about GK a few pages back made me think:

We can ally with GK (non-scoring, but they can still fight)(EDIT: A GK Grand Master can make them scoring! Even the heavy support!).

Here's what I'd do:

The Orkwisition!

Grand Master - Rad Grenades = 190

Terminators - Psycannon, 3 Daemon Hammers, 2 Halberds = 225

That's 415 points and not too shabby.

Now, I'm also thinking about some heavy support in the form of a Land Raider or Dreadknight (Deffknight?)

Land Raider Crusader - Psybolt Ammunition = 260

Dreadknight - Personal Teleporter (Makes it jump infantry), Gatling Psilencer (Lots of Dakka to fit the theme!), Daemon Hammer (So smash isn't needed) = 250

There's also the Stormraven, though I'm not a huge fan of it.

Thoughts?

Anvildude wrote:
Also Meganobz are exactly the price of regular Terminators. Not sure about tooled-out BA ones, though.


I think if they allowed Squiggoths as HS and popped Flash Gitz into Elite, we'd have some good times. We already have one of the most dangerous, useful flyers around, and the cheapest (bar none) AV14 in the game (of which we can get upwards of 12 on the field at once!). Our basic troop is still incredibly dangerous either at range or close up.

About the only thing keeping us from top-tier is the lack of ranged anti-tank (and Lootas don't quite cut it). If Tankbustas had some way to split fire....

ya I agree tankbustas need something to make them worth the points, even if it was something like +1 BS when shooting at vehicles or maybe the tank hunter special rule? ( never made sense to me why they didnt have that rule since its literally implied in their name)

Tankbustas...lol...such a sad attempt for a unit. Even if they didnt have Glory Hog at all i wouldnt take them. What can they do that biker nobs cant, and biker nobs are WAY more survivable and faster?

The issue with orks and range anti tank is the few guns we got with the punch to do it are killed by our BS2 and we cant mass it. Rokkits are about it, but unless its buggies or koptas they arent that reliable and expensive as crap. And they arent that great on AV14 anyway, being Str8

'What can they do that biker nobs cant, and biker nobs are WAY more survivable and faster? '

Ride in a BW and shoot anyone attempting to assault it.

Kill AV 14 at range? All you need to do is glance it down these days.

Detonate AV 12 fliers?

Other than that, not much.

I prefer biker nobz, but Tankbustas still have their uses.

In my experience in 6th, or bad luck whatever you wanna call it. my battlewagons die pretty easy once they get about halfway across the board. My dakkawagons i like to run (lootas + meks + kff + riggers + zzap gun) survive pretty well because they sit just outside my deployment zone, so he has a lot of ground to cover to get at it. Any time i try to use my BW to charge forward even if i use multiple BWs they just get shot to hell and back. We cant reliably penetrate av14, but a lot of other races can. My front gets pen'd all the damn time, and its always a 5+ on the roll.

And if i wanted to glance down av14 i would use TL rokkit koptas, not tankbustas.

Yes they probably fit that one situation better than bikes or koptas but in all honesty how often is that? bikers are better 9/10 of the time.

Fair enough,

I did say i preferred bikers myself, after all.

I have found that folk used to having their fliers just rampage orks can find 15 rokkits arcing up towards them a bit intimidating, even if only 5 hit...

Tankbustas are also great for stomping on the Nid big bugs, as most are T6, 3+

Biker nobz cost obscene amounts of points.

Tank bustas can shoot junk up at a range and destroy things up close. Bikers can only do one.

Drive by hits with tank hammer or busta bombs with a boarding plank.

Throw bombs and set loose squigs for really easy hits.

Just a sweet mass of rokkit fire.

Koptas with TL rokkits cost 30 more points, come in smaller units, and don't have easy access to a boss pole.

Tank bustas are far from awful now. They aren't "ZOMG" good, but definitely useful. Far from a "sad attempt at a unit."

 loota boy wrote:
Biker nobz cost obscene amounts of points.

Tank bustas can shoot junk up at a range and destroy things up close. Bikers can only do one.

Drive by hits with tank hammer or busta bombs with a boarding plank.

Throw bombs and set loose squigs for really easy hits.

Just a sweet mass of rokkit fire.

Koptas with TL rokkits cost 30 more points, come in smaller units, and don't have easy access to a boss pole.

Tank bustas are far from awful now. They aren't "ZOMG" good, but definitely useful. Far from a "sad attempt at a unit."

Ive not had this type of experience with tank busters but Im glad someone has.

A wagon full of them unleashes mean firepower, and you can drive by smack things with tank hammas and busta bomms. Once they get really close, accuracy increases significantly with the squigs and throwing the bomms. Anything they assault is almost immediately destroyed. And they suffer from "renowned bad unit" syndrome, so most opponents won't really pay much attention. Just as good as a melta squad, but not as suicidal.

So are there some good ways to use tankbustas in your typical game store play? Obviously they're not the best choice if I'm going to adepticon or something, but would they work against your average joe player?

Looking through my bitz box I realized I easily have enough rokkits to make a 15 man unit of tankbustas, so I figured I'd ask before I went through the trouble of converting them up.

I occasionally run 12 in a wagon with rokkits and a kannon, along with the trusty boarding plank. In a friendly game, they are pretty damn useful. At a range, they can put some good shots into armor, and as you get closer, they just get more and more accurate. Anything in cc with them is a confirmed kill, and you can just roll by things and drive by hit them with the hamma or busta bomms. Works well for me, but YMMV.

Avoid dedicated infantry killers as well as you can. They're Boyz, but they're few enough that they fold to a lot of threats. However, you can use them to control your opponent's vehicle movement pretty well.

Tankbustas and Flash Gitz are some of the most Psychological of Ork units. Usually it's just "Run up and Smash!", but for these guys, they're most useful for board control. Anything within 30" or so is in danger of getting blown up. Anything within 24" is in more danger (it will get hit, the question is whether it'll get penned) due to Bomb Squiggs. Anything within 12" is pretty much dead. (remember, this only talks about Vehicles). That's a fairly significant bubble of Danger for enemy armour, especially for things like Land Raiders and Monoliths, where players are used to being able to pretty much ignore Ork shooting with them.

well i am running random lists right now so maybe i should try the BW Killkannon with 12 bustas inside just for the heck of it. Tomorrow im going to give the meganob + maddok a try, though i fear his rule for charging at nearest foe will be my downfall, but its just friendly games anyway.
Also wanna try lobbas, but i gotta scratch build some first (i dislike proxies even in friendly games, i just feel like such a git doing it). Already have gretchin to man it, just need the artillery itself (bought an M1A01 tank at the local craft stand in the base exchange...yea im military...and plan to salvage the hell out of it for wheels, armor plates, another cannon, etc etc. 22 bucks? sure why not lol).

Not sure if id ever try flash gitz though, i feel my 3 heavy slots are too valuable to get them. Every game i dont run battlewagons or dreads i get flattened by turn 2 lol.

A dozen S8 AP3 rokkits can't be a bad thing, even if they're only BS2, and especially when targetting non-light vehicles or heavy infantry who'd otherwise be yawning at the shooting from Lootas (the obvious alternative choice in the same slot). But certainly Lootas remain a better choice against horde or non-Meq or light vehicles, or probably for an all-comers/tourney list. And I worry that a BW full of bustas would be a big target priority for any opponent who fears rokkits - although i guess the same is true for a BW full of lootas...

@Vineheart01: I happen to be scratchbuilding lobbas right now, keeping them all GW bits to stay tourney-legal - I'll be posting pics in the P&M forum soonish.

Every time I have taken a BW of tank bustas it has gone exploded turn 1 or 2 and with it now being str4 it would hurt the bustas even more. I just can't justify taking them usually they are just boys and go down easy if not in a transport although the bomb squigs have done well from time to time as well as kill my own BW or truk from time to time to =P

Yea thats my biggest peev about orks. Elites or not, theyre all just as squishy as boyz except meganobs and regular nobs yet cost WAY more. On top of it, dont even have the option for heavy armor so theyre fixated 6+ saves unless you wanna buy grotsnik for cyborks. Though i did find in the FAQ that he can give cybork to the entire army, not one unit, granted that would get expensive quick. Rather a 5+ invul than a 4+ armor though.

Meanwhile every other race, their elites or special-type units are either default durable or have options to make them durable. MEQs have good saves to begin with, and all their elites are even better on top of the crazy special damage rules.

Actually now im tempted to try that....get Grotsnik and just cybork out the entire army that can possibly get it (nonvehicle). Or, at the least, anything but boyz with the exception of the nob (since its says nothing about the entire unit taking it or not at all).

Edit: If i like the lobbas, i might scratch some tourny-legal ones. However i havent ever played in a tourny except one coordinated by friends anyway as an excuse to get all of us together rather than 2-5 at a time. Neither do i intend to, since i am in this to have fun hence why i am orks (DONT PRESS DAT! haha) and people who are WAAC-type drive me crazy with the constant arguing of which rule trumps which rule. I always go by BRB -> Codex -> House rules. If my Codex says something, i dont give a rats ass bout the BRB's version, and house rules are only additional rules as people who say "No XXX units!" (unless its FW units) basically say they cant fight those units, so they ban it.

Or, at the least, anything but boyz with the exception of the nob (since its says nothing about the entire unit taking it or not at all).

Actually thats not true. It specifically says "any UNIT may be upgraded with cybork for 5 points per model" So yes, youd have to give the nob cybork.

Vineheart01 wrote:
Yea thats my biggest peev about orks. Elites or not, theyre all just as squishy as boyz except meganobs and regular nobs yet cost WAY more. On top of it, dont even have the option for heavy armor so theyre fixated 6+ saves unless you wanna buy grotsnik for cyborks. Though i did find in the FAQ that he can give cybork to the entire army, not one unit, granted that would get expensive quick. Rather a 5+ invul than a 4+ armor though.

Meanwhile every other race, their elites or special-type units are either default durable or have options to make them durable. MEQs have good saves to begin with, and all their elites are even better on top of the crazy special damage rules.

Actually now im tempted to try that....get Grotsnik and just cybork out the entire army that can possibly get it (nonvehicle). Or, at the least, anything but boyz with the exception of the nob (since its says nothing about the entire unit taking it or not at all).

Grotsnik rules says any unit may take it at +5 pts per model. Even if you were somehow allowed to not cybork the boyz, you would still pay 30x 5 points.

I've been somewhat successful with tankbustaz in battlewagons now that they don't have to take impossible shots anymore. If you really want to take out non-vehicle units, just drive them outside of range, and if you do want to take out vehicles, tank hammers and tankbusta bomms hitting on 3+ make a mess out of about any vehicle, including the landraider. It still hurts a lot when it explodes(which it will do a lot more often than wreck), since half of your 15 point boyz die.

Can I get some input on this list?

Big Mek - KFF
Warphead

Boyz X20 - Shootas, Nob with Bosspole and Big Choppa (I'm trying out PK alternatives)
Boyz X20 - Shootas, Nob with Bosspole and Big Choppa (I'm trying out PK alternatives)
Boyz X19 - Shootas, Nob with Bosspole and Big Choppa (I'm trying out PK alternatives)

Meganobz X5 - 5 Kombi-Skorchas

Battlewagonn X4 - Deff Rolla, 2 Big Shootas, 3 have Grot Riggers

Dakkajet - Extra Supa Shoota

Warbuggies X3 - Twin Linked Rokkits (Going to use them as a screen for the wagons, an idea that I'm looting from an earlier post in the thread (Thanks, Matphat!))

Warbuggies X2 - Twin-Linked Rokkits

Thoughts?

I've fallen in love with my Weridboy (It's gone to the point where I said "I wish I could deep strike onto that objective" and my Weirdboy did, causing a mess to the Imperial Guard lines that were nearby). He gets the job done.

Well with this you can run the buggies 1 of 2 ways. Rush them forwards and do what Ive been saying to do for a few months now. Problem is, youve only 5 buggies.....that might workish, it might not. Im thinking since youre spamming av14 there, might as well keep them in the back of that wall of av14. That way, if something comes in deepstrike or outflanks, they will either have to shoot the buggies, or grant your BW a cover save.

But as always, if its a small table, like most tournies run now a days........Id still be tempted to just shove those buggies down your opponents throat, simply because on a 4x4 table, your going to be right there on your first turn.

Has anyone thought of doing a MSU Green tide? With the double FOC, I think it would be rather interesting. An example:

HQ:
KFF Mek = 85 pts
KFF Mek = 85 pts
Total: 170 pts

Troops:
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
Total: 1560

Fast Attack:
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Total: 270 pts

This totals up to 2000 pts.

Here's a second list:
List 2:

HQ:
KFF Mek = 85 pts
KFF Mek = 85 pts
Total: 170 pts

Elite:
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
Total: 450 pts

Troops:
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
19x Grots, Runtherd = 67 pts
Total: 1107 pts

Fast Attack:
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Total: 270 pts

I am not sure how many people would be able to kill off 20+ separate units in a game. The key part of these is that they wouldn't be able to target enough units per turn to kill them off, not to mention that they are dealing with massive amounts of models.

 virx67 wrote:
Has anyone thought of doing a MSU Green tide? With the double FOC, I think it would be rather interesting. An example:

Spoiler:

HQ:
KFF Mek = 85 pts
KFF Mek = 85 pts
Total: 170 pts

Troops:
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
Total: 1560

Fast Attack:
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Total: 270 pts

This totals up to 2000 pts.

Here's a second list:
List 2:

HQ:
KFF Mek = 85 pts
KFF Mek = 85 pts
Total: 170 pts

Elite:
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
5x Lootas = 75 pts
Total: 450 pts

Troops:
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
15x Boyz, Nob w/ PK + BP = 130 pts
19x Grots, Runtherd = 67 pts
Total: 1107 pts

Fast Attack:
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Deffkopta, TL Rokkit = 45 pts
Total: 270 pts

I am not sure how many people would be able to kill off 20+ separate units in a game. The key part of these is that they wouldn't be able to target enough units per turn to kill them off, not to mention that they are dealing with massive amounts of models.

It's interesting, to say the least. I think it's got potential, but you'd be losing VPs left and right when those little blobs get destroyed.

Also, I just read through the BRB's FAQ, and it mentions that a vehicle can go at cruising speed and fire a single ordnance shot (no snap fire on any other weapons though).

This makes me want to break out the 105 pt Boomwagons again, as even Don't Touch Dat! can't stop the Boomgun from firing!

Id say, find a way for a KFF in those lists, mainly because now in 6th, footslogging is the only time I suggest one. And those little units will need all the help they can get to survive.

This would be frigging BRUTAL if the "Mob up" rule still existed. Good gravy, by the time the horde got to the enemy, itd be 2 mobs of 50 boyz each


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Boomguns - That trick would work, but youll have to have a unit infront of your wagon, otherwise itll "dont press dat" to its maximum, which wont allow you to fire.

i have a question about dakkajets.

What is the main targets you tend to send them at? I have been using them against infantry or AV10 vehicles and getting meh results.

Also, Strafing Run clarification. The FAQ says ignore these rules and look at the BRB version - which isnt FAQ'd - and it says "Regardless of the target" for pinning tests. Does this mean i can force a pinning test against things that normally cant be pinned? i.e. basically making bikes take a dangerous terrain test? Or vehicles for that matter.

EDIT: As for the boomgun line preventing Dont Press Dat! rolls, i remember reading in the FAQ about the vehicle still counting as moved even if it didnt if that happened so you still cant fire ordnance since, despite relentless rule, moving cruising speed stats snap fires.


EDIT2: I just realized Dakkajets dont get BS3 against fliers....wtf? BRB Strafing Run mentions against nonflier or skimmer types, but Fighta Ace wasnt FAQ'd at all and it only says Skimmers.
LAME!

i tend to send my dakkajets taking out side armor on things as vindicators - predeators tau firewarriors or dreadnoughts generally :3 with so many shots on a waagh iv'e never failed taking out armor 10-12.

Vineheart01 wrote:


As for the boomgun line preventing Dont Press Dat! rolls, i remember reading in the FAQ about the vehicle still counting as moved even if it didnt if that happened so you still cant fire ordnance since, despite relentless rule, moving cruising speed stats snap fires.

Spoiler:

Q. If a Looted Wagon rolls a ‘1’ for “Don’t Press Dat”, but is unable
to complete its move (or even to move at all) because it is blocked by
something it cannot move through (friendly models, etc), does it still
count as having moved for the purposes of shooting? (p54)
A. Yes, regardless of how far it actually moves, the Wagon
always counts as having moved at cruising speed.

And the BRB FAQ says:

Q: Can a vehicle that has moved at Cruising Speed still fire an
Ordnance weapon? (p71)
A: Yes, providing that the vehicle is not Snap Firing

So, if you don't even try to shoot the big shoota(s)/rokkit(s) on your Boomwagon, you can roll a 1 and still open fire. GW just made one of the saddest things in the game into something much more deadly! (My favorite things is when Boomwagons + Shokk Attack guns eat Fire Warrior squads. It tempts me to shout "Who sucks with ranged firepower now?")

I think I might right up a little article about it for discussion.

I don't get it.
A Looted Wagon must snap fire when move at cruising speed, therefore it can't shoot the boom gun - the FAQ doesn't change that.

Only Fast vehicle could still shoot while cruising (therefore a Fast vehicle can shoot an ordinance at cruise speed, as per FAQ). But Looted Wagons are not Fast :( or did I missed something ?

XC18 wrote:
I don't get it.
A Looted Wagon must snap fire when move at cruising speed, therefore it can't shoot the boom gun - the FAQ doesn't change that.

Only Fast vehicle could still shoot while cruising. Looted Wagon are not Fast :( or did I missed something ?

It reads awkwardly (to me, at least) in the rulebook, but here's what I've found:

Page 71 - Moving and Shooting with Vehicles - "Vehicles always have the Relentless special rule."

Page 71 - Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons
"Unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance weapons. However, a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn."

Ork FAQ:
"Q. If a Looted Wagon rolls a ‘1’ for “Don’t Press Dat”, but is unable
to complete its move (or even to move at all) because it is blocked by
something it cannot move through (friendly models, etc), does it still
count as having moved for the purposes of shooting? (p54)
A. Yes, regardless of how far it actually moves, the Wagon
always counts as having moved at cruising speed."

BRB FAQ -
"Q: Can a vehicle that has moved at Cruising Speed still fire an
Ordnance weapon? (p71)
A: Yes, providing that the vehicle is not Snap Firing "

How that all reads to me is: If you don't roll a 1 for Don't Press Dat!, you're fine. If you do, you can still fire the Boomgun, but only the Boomgun.

Yeah, except, you skipped the most important part on page 71, while basically quoting everything around it.

A vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can only make Snap Shots, as above.