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wow...it does say that

"the unit is automatically hit" although I don't think that is what is intended but...rules as written every model in that unit is hit

yea see what i mean? i just noticed that...if it said "Melta 1" then ok yea its definitely 1 single shot, but it just says "Melta"
Thats like... i roll a 3 ok that unit is dead I WIN
Cant possibly be intended.... but RAW it works...
Dont think i'll ever pull that rule over someone unless theyre being a douchy WAAC, thats kinda...broken lol

And there isn't anything in the FAQ?

If it was 12" then meh...but like at 36" no-one is safe.

or maybe the Wierdboy is the best psyker in the game

Dis iz anuvva reezun dat Orkz iz da Best! We'z havin' too much FUN ta be Dooshie about da Rulez!

It's pretty clear that RAI is one model hit, otherwise frazzle would be entirely pointless. But, you could definitely argue RAW that it just splatters the whole unit. I wouldn't do it personally, but you could definitely make the case.

Frazzle wouldnt be useless because its still solid luck to get the spell. I went an entire game only getting either Frazzle or Zzap once even with Warphead rerolls.

Your right, RAI it is one shot - its the most balanced and it sounds like a single beam is being fired when you read the description. However im totally keeping this in my pocket for when i face TFG or a WAAC lol. Not doing this to my buddies though i would be outcasted for using such an obviously broken rule lol.
EDIT: And no the only mentions in the FAQ for Zzap are 1) Is it a shooting psychic spell? 2) What happens if used while embarked in a transport? 3-5) Big Gunz Zzap (since its the same word) stuff.

It does hit the entire unit, and yes it is quite nasty when you do finally roll it, especially against a completely decked out paladin squad.

If you read it as written then I would say it hits the whole unit since any other melta weapon, for example a meltagun, is assault 1, Melta, or Heavy 1, Melta. Whereas Zzap is simply Melta.

I think as intended is a single shot however

Even if it hits a whole unit that does not logically mean every model in that unit is hit. Even if just one guy is hit the unit has still been hit, right?

If they intended for every model to be hit I would assume they would explicitly say so. Or, if that fails, they would FAQ it.

Yea i know RAI its only 1 shot, unless it specifically said something like "Causes a wound to every model" i would never play it that way because thats just stupid broken.

When up against, and sick of, the rotten WAAC player and you need more justification of why the attack hits the whole unit, show them the picture of the wierdboy art that is zapping an entire squad of space marines at once.

At this point I feel we should really have an update tactica for our Ork units. Maybe a ranking of our units with overall effectiveness, priority targets, and roles.

(Mainly cause I'm lazy and don't want to read through 97 pages).

My 2 cents.

oh yea its a lot to read though i only did because i can sit at work while i read it lol. Thats why my flag changes between korea and usa all the time.

Ranking of our units overall effectiveness is kinda straightforward though. Boyz are awesome, bikernobs are fethin sick, MANs are scary, Lootas are crazy as hell, trukk/bw spam is iffy (i have horrid luck with pen rolls), and flash gitz are beyond worthless.
I actually went against a necron player allying in some CSM noise marines. 10 models, 36/48inch range ignore cover crazy damage and ap. The cost? He spent ~350. Flash Gitz? Fully loaded so they actually do something, ~450 w/o Baddrukk. On top of that, lower strength and severely less range not to mention the BS difference.
2wounds mean nothing these days, i would gladly reduce them to 1 wound if their costs were cut in half or 1/3 cheaper. And take a dedicated transport.

Below is based on my experience. I have tried a lot of styles out and the one that works best for me is a hybrid gunline/biker list. YMMV.

Amazing:
Warboss on Bike - has been working like a champ. Only thing I worry about is S10, or instant kill stuff. Otherwise he's been amazing in most of my games

Nob Bikerz - I like to run 2 PK (rest have Big Choppas), a Painboy, and everybody has a Skorcha. Fast versatile, harassment unit. Skorchas for counter charge defense.

Big Gunz - have been the bane in my opponents side. 9 artillery models w / minimal Crew is cheap enough to almost always make their points back. They also work well on the both sides of my Lootas to give some buffer from outlflanking units.

Lootas - there is honestly nothing I could say here that hasn't been said a thousand times in this thread. They were amazing in 5th, and are even better now. I always run them in groups of 15.

Good::
Big Mek w/ KFF:
Most of the games I've played have had so much Terrain that I really didn't need the KFF. He's still good, but personally I've need the offense more then defense so I've been running 2 warbosses.

Shoota /Rokkit Boyz - have been my main goto unit. I unusually run 2-3 units of 30 w/ 3 rokkits & a PK Nob. These guys have been my front line protecting my Gunline.

Not so much:
MegaNobz - I'm one of the few players that think they are actually not as good as they were in 5th. Part of that is because Ghazzy isn't as good anymore. They are so slow that when I get the MegaNobz out of their transport, they are pretty much done for the game. For the same points as MegaNobz/Battlewagon I can have another unit of Biker Nobz.

Kills Kanz - I loved these guyz in 5th, but now they are just too fragile. I played against a friend who really wanted to play them ( he also plays Orks). After one round of loota shooting, my friend decided that he would not field them again.

why rokkits in the boyz squads? They usually miss because of BS2 and majority of the time youre shooting it at something a regular shoota still plasters. Thats why i never take the rokkit in boyz squads, i feel like im wasting either 54 shoota shots or 3 rokkits because they dont like shootin the same things.

And i'd say Ghaz isnt bad, hes just highly situational. If i know my opponent is going to bring something that can get to me FAST and will normally ID a warboss i'll take Ghaz and send him in his face. So far he has yet to fail me in taking out 300+ points worth of MC that jump into my lines. Plop him in with 30 boyz if you want and now you got 6 rerolls for that 5+ invul once your waaaagh! is used up.
Basically hes my MC killer. Lootas always decide to go "We fail at da shootin'!" whenever i aim at MC so im getting sick of trying to rely on them lol. Ghaz plasters them every time.

I'd agree on killa kanz, them along with deffdredds are kinda pointless right now. In fact the only walkers that can do something are ones that can be deepstriked either normally or droppod...or are just a mobile gun platform and doesnt need to get close at all. Killa kans have better BS but the guns they got lack the range, so bleh on that.

I like Rokkits, because majority whatever's in range of my Boy Unit is either a marine unit, or a Tank.

I like the versatility I have with having Rokkits in the unit. I usually hold the Boy unit shooting until last, and If I've haven't popped at tank, or killed a unit with all my other shooting, then boy unit gets it's round of shooting. If it's a Marine Unit I have just under a 1/3 chance of killing one (just under a 1/6 chance for overwatch). If I'm firing at a vehicle, it's a hail mary chance shot while I advance.

Last weekend, I've played a couple of big games against IG (3500 pts) and DKoK (1500 pts).

The first round, I won thanks to:
1/ Wazzdakka + 6 Nob Bikerz = killed 1 Chimera, 1 whole unit of vets, 1 unit of 5x Ogryns + Lord Comissar, 1 LR Vanquisher.
But they are most awesome because of their durability. They soak up enemy fire like crazy. (3+ or 4+ & FNP 5+)
2/ Lootas (25 of them, split up into 4 squads) = killed 1 Hydra, 1 Chimera + a whole unit of vets, 2 Sentinels, and 3-4 other units.
Praise the 48" Deff Gunz against T3 army.
3/ KFF Big Mek / BW

The second round, I won thanks to my Warboss Biker + outflanking Deffkoptaz. Killed a whole squad of Death Riders with Shoota-Skorcha + TL Big Shootas.
Then killed one unit each.

The most awesome Ork units, so far:
1/ Warboss on Bike. I'd love to have a second one to replace my KFF Big Mek.
2/ Nob Bikers. Durability, soak up enemy fire real good. Same thing, maybe a second squad would be great, but very costy (410pts for 6 models).
3/ Lootas. Nuff said.
4/ Deffkoptaz. Good stuff, TL rokkits are good. Allow your Warboss to outflank units, use skorcha when he gets there (or to counter-attack), then LOS! + Hit and Run.
5/ Squiggoths (Forgeworld rules). 50 points each, better than BW. Good home for Lootas (or Burnas). Can move 7" to 12" if they run and don't affect shooters in it.

As for Squiggoths, too bad you can't play them by units of 1-3. Playing 9 Squiggoths for only 450 points would have been perfect to block LoS and wreak havoc in close combat.

Just a quick one...

Are flashgits still bad?

I really want to convert a mob up.

No they arent bad....they are RANCID

I wouldnt even use them in a fun list because they just dont do anything for the cost.

Puscifer wrote:
Just a quick one...

Are flashgits still bad?

I really want to convert a mob up.

In my opinion they are decent in a non-competitive environment.
You should try to run them very spread out to avoid any kind of AP4 templates, as these types of weapons will murder them without saves.
I would probably just field a unit of 5 flash gits and give them an open topped transport of personal taste.
I would give them the +1 shot and +1 str upgrades, making them more effective against light vehicles, but still keeping them somehow cheap at 175 points for 5. This way they are a decent anti heavy infantry unit if you keep them at range, and they can also take out light vehicles at range and weak units in assault.

Personally I'm probably going to wait untill Orks get a new codex so I can get proper models and hopefully slightly better rules. They will most likely be able to take a trukk for themselves, and potentially even be moved from heavy support.

Puscifer wrote:
Just a quick one...

Are flashgits still bad?

I really want to convert a mob up.

20 Shots at BS2 for 300 points say that anything weaker than a missile launcher is probably a waste of points.

They're not bad per se. They're definitely unusual, though. Best way I've used them is as a sort of midfield firebase/distraction. With the change to Gitfindas, you can plonk them in the middle of area terrain or cover and not have to worry about the enemy getting any benefit from it- and since they're so chaotic against infantry (sometimes melting Terminators, sometimes unable to tickle a Guardsman AP-wise) they can be a way to help control enemy positioning and movement. And they're still Nobs in a melee, which is something to consider if the enemy decided "Oho, weak ol' Flash Gitz- I'll just swamp 'em!".

Anyone notice a new ork faq dropped, even affecting weirdboy powers and zog? Yet they still didnt say he can or cannot use frazzle or zzap.....seriously GW just say which way it is so we stop thinking you missed something.

Nooo my trukk drivers can't get out and fire quad guns anymore!

The intention with Zogwart is pretty clear, GW does not want him using Frazzel or Zaap, he can re-roll but if he gets them again he is stuck using them.

Has anyone tried out Deffkoptaz lately? I am thinking of running 5 in 2 units of 2 and a unit of 1 with Big Shootaz just to harass backfield units like Long Fangs, units on the Quad gun etc, all 5 only comes to 175 so pretty cheap and they got a lot of buffs in this edition with the new Jetbike rules. Thoughts?

 More Dakka wrote:
The intention with Zogwart is pretty clear, GW does not want him using Frazzel or Zaap, he can re-roll but if he gets them again he is stuck using them.

Has anyone tried out Deffkoptaz lately? I am thinking of running 5 in 2 units of 2 and a unit of 1 with Big Shootaz just to harass backfield units like Long Fangs, units on the Quad gun etc, all 5 only comes to 175 so pretty cheap and they got a lot of buffs in this edition with the new Jetbike rules. Thoughts?

Yes, I decided lat week that for this week I'm dropping the 30 Sluggas for 5 DeffKoptas in a single unit and 2 late game mobs of 10 grots held in reserve. My Shootas and NobBikerz can take the opponents objectives.

Was also thinking DK's would be good for line breaker.

I'm going to start using Deffkoptas again, I think. Pricy but they give anti-tank that I sorely lack, and also they seem tough enough to distract my opponent from the units that actually matter (i.e. Boyz).

Oi
quick question, does model attacking from boarding plank, receive a bonus from furious charge? I would say yes, but I'm noob...
And if answer is yes, doesn't it make Ram+Plank better combo than Deff Rolla?

Yes, because the model is supposed to make those attacks as if charging, that includes any rules that activate when you are charging.

Which would make a nob/big mek have four attacks at S9 AP2, hitting on 3+, which would be an average of 2.66 hits at S9, while a deff rolla would cause an average of 3.5 S10 hits, usually enough to wreck any AV12 or less vehicle.

In addition, the boarding plank stops working as soon as the unit disembarks, which should be your primary objective for anything inside a battlewagon. You don't want to keep a PK-wielder inside a battlewagon just to punch other vehicles, that would make the plank more expensive than the deff rolla (plank+PK+ork).

And last, the deff rolla can also steamroll anything, while the plank only works against vehicles. Most units don't like any amount of S10 hits.

But attack from boardin plank would be against rear armour, which is mostly AV10, on the other hand Deff rolla woud be, mostly, hitting front armour. And since there is more Predators and anihilation barques than Razorback...
And if I understand it correctly, there is no jink/cover saves from power klaw.

Mutated: isn't Death or Glory with melta or Chainfist deadly for BattleWagon with Deffrolla?