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A naked Priest is a hold over from 5th. There's absolutely no reason to not give a Priest at least a PW as he has Look Out Sir on a 2+ and the Sarge can take the challenge if the challenger is nasty enough.

I agree with Ares. What's the point of having a Priest with no PW, LC, etc? Before he could be singled out in combat and die easily, now he's just another guy in the squad which makes him much more durable. Also he has Look Out Sir! to make him even more survivable.

If I can afford the points, I've been giving the Priest a power sword, he is much more survivable in combat now, and also with the extra pile in moves, its much more difficult to get him to avoid combat. Librarians I just give a jump pack, and in bigger point games upgrade him to an Epop. Sgts I mix and match with different unit load outs, and depending on what I'm playing, if I need AP2 and can afford to be slow, Power Axe, if I need AP2 and need anti dreadnought/vehicle, Power fist, and then if I need to be quick but can afford to have AP3 I'll keep the Power Weapon or Lightning claw, not sure which yet, +1 attack with the Power Weapon, or re-rolls to wound with the LC?

AresX8 wrote:A naked Priest is a hold over from 5th. There's absolutely no reason to not give a Priest at least a PW as he has Look Out Sir on a 2+ and the Sarge can take the challenge if the challenger is nasty enough.

Red Comet wrote:I agree with Ares. What's the point of having a Priest with no PW, LC, etc? Before he could be singled out in combat and die easily, now he's just another guy in the squad which makes him much more durable. Also he has Look Out Sir! to make him even more survivable.

This is why I love this thread. I had dropped the priest from my army lists because of the negative alterations of FC and FNP combined with his fragile nature (thinking in 5th edition). However, you raise excellent points: 2+ LOS and Sgt covering for challenges make hiding him in an Assault Squad far better than before. I may bring my priests back out to the table.

Thanks!

Glad I could help, and I just thought I should let you guys know that a Lightning Claw is superior to a Power Sword according to the Mathhammer.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
Naked priests and librarians. Assault srgs: LC SS melta bombs. Tac srgs just a combo weapon and maybe melta bombs.

That is one damned expensive ASS srg with LC/SS / melta, havent tried them out though so I won't say too much but.. yeah.. that's expensive ;x

I don't really bother with SS, but I could consider it at some point, largely for the survivability in a challenge (but I'm not usually using them to win a challenge, if anything, they typically just absorb the blows of whatever horrible assault monster it fights) - I usually keep it pretty simple, maybe a power fist although an axe is probably good. LC is also decent, in fact, there are plenty of options. I dunno about giving him a special pistol or anything like that as you will (in all likelihood) have already taken meltas/flamers on your squad so there's not much need unless you really want that extra wound scored on that monstrous creature (which is absolutely fair).

Apologies if this is old news, but a Storm Shield makes a Sergeant pretty durable in a challenge if backed up with FNP.

I think this is a particular example of a common theme. Stuff that seems unlikely to have a major impact (like Deny the Witch for psykerless units) can add up to a powerful defense when it forces your opponent to succeed in a succession of rolls.

In the Sergeant's case, suppose the enemy hits him on a 3 and wounds on a 2, but at S7 or less. With a SS and FNP, the probability a given attack kills him is 12.3%, or slightly less than 1 in 8. Under these conditions, you need 6 attacks to have a better than 50% chance of killing him. If you give him a PF too, he wins on average against most flavors of Captain, for a cost of 63 points (assuming he's in an Assault Squad).

Against a "terrible assault monster", his chances are even better if he has 5 other guys left in his squad. You get 1 reroll per player turn then, which you can use on a 3++ save. I did the math in a different thread, and a Daemon Prince will only kill him every 1 round out of 10. He's can expect to beat a Tervigon and probably has a good chance against a Trygon (I haven't done the math on the Trygon, as the Scything Talons further complicate a pretty involved calculation).

Basically, to expect to roll over the Sergeant in a challenge, you need to be able to deny him the reroll per turn on his 3++, and also be able to not get IDed by his Power Fist. Is there stuff out there that fits that description? Sure, the Swarmlord comes to mind, and he isn't going to win against say a DP in a Fateweaver bubble, but I think anyone playing a DoA type list should be going with this loadout.

after reading the first few pages of posts i thought of equiping DC with bolters and chainswords.... the codex says Boltgun or Boltpistol. Then on another bullet says chainsword.
Am i reading this wrong?

Nope, you can totally do bolter + chainsword, and I think it's a better combo for them anyway since they have relentless.

Mr. E thanks for the math-hammer! That actually gives an interesting light to Sgt's since taking a Sgt. with only a stormshield seems to be worth it even though the cost in points is a little high since he doesn't have a 2+ armor which would really really help him out. Its a shame you can't upgrade him into artificer armor instead which would be pretty easy. Its worth a consideration though, but I feel naked Sgt's are the way to go and leave all of the killing to Priests and libbies.

That's just my 2 cents though. Glad I magnetized all of my sgts!

here is my list for 6th ed.

all infantry list. 2000 points

HQ :
--Death Company Tycho
--Jump pack Libby (divination - reroll to hit, and one other random skill)

Elite:
--Chaplian (plain)
--Priest + Jump Priest + Cobulo

Troops:
--10 men assult marine with jump pack; 2 melta; sergent with power axe
--10 men assult marine with jump pack; 2 melta; sergent with power axe
--10 men assult marine with jump pack; 2 melta; sergent with power sword
--10 men assult marine with jump pack; 2 melta; sergent with power sword

Heavy:
--5 men devastor with 4 missile launcher
--5 men devastor with 4 plasma cannon
--5 men devastor with 4 lascannon.


set up

----all start on board.
----devastors hide in covers; attach the walking priest with the plasma Devs; with other 2 dev close by; all have fnp; dev use the high grounds / building
----libby +cobulo + chaplin + DC tycho right behind devs.
----Jump infantry closest to the board edge.

it is a defensive set up; with the long range damage done by lascannon; missle launchers.
mid shooting is handle by plasma.
when someone dare to get close to the devastors; send out the ic group;
assualt is mainly for support roll; jumping out to get armours and kill off softer targets.

might swap two unit of the assualt for DC for more aggressive play.

I think it's a little silly dedicating 4 ICs just to protect the Devastators, it might be better to just put some of them with the Assault Marines to buff them up.

What does everyone think about the Stromraven is about it's transport capabilities?

Do people still consider the SR a valid transport vehicle or is it now too risky. If you crash and burn you've probably just lost a great hunk of points...I can't decide how I feel about Skies of Blood. I think I would maybe utilise it to drop off a dread, although the 1/6 chance that it could be instantly immobilised is a distressing thought...But I don't think I'd use it to drop off infantry, if they haven't got JPs than the odds are you'll lose at least 1 model from the dangerous terrain test (assuming you’ve put a 10 man squad with a character or two in), if they have got JPs then the unit will have to be smaller anyway to fit in (so you'll want a unit that can hit harder when it arrives), but as an assault army our small hard hitting units are for the assault phase, but you can't assault following skies of blood....Might be useful for trying to pinch/contest an objective near the end of the game but again you're relying on the SR not getting shot down!...

What does everyone else do? Is the SR now just a gunship or do people still use it for transport. Also, if using as a gunship are Hurricane bolter sponsons a valid choice now, or still not worth the points?

Finally is Extra Armour still a necessity? Are any other extra more viable (more night fighting now, so spot light perhaps?.

Thoughts?

D

Personally I don't really care for its transport capacity. The chance of pretty much anything I put in there dying is just too high for me to consider doing that especially since my opponent will focus fire on it to make sure what is inside dies.

I wouldn't take Hurricane Bolters simply because they are S4. If this were the GK stormraven it might be worth it if you take Psybolt Ammo and make it a glance it to death gunboat. Otherwise I'd avoid that. Only upgrade that's worth it is a spotlight, but even then I don't really feel its necessary to take spot lights on flyers especially since the Stormraven has to move 18 inches at least.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I think it's a little silly dedicating 4 ICs just to protect the Devastators, it might be better to just put some of them with the Assault Marines to buff them up.

nope; the priest naked is to give fnp to the devs;

cobulo, chaplain and DC tycho is hiding and to hit out on those who come close; they can be send to walk across the board as well; may be assualt marine goes first and this group of 3 ic follow; each of them have look out sir. cobulo will take all the small arm fire; the chaplain will take the 4+ invul; and his job is also to provide reroll to hit and to wound for DC tycho.

Dazuni wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I think it's a little silly dedicating 4 ICs just to protect the Devastators, it might be better to just put some of them with the Assault Marines to buff them up.

nope; the priest naked is to give fnp to the devs;

cobulo, chaplain and DC tycho is hiding and to hit out on those who come close; they can be send to walk across the board as well; may be assualt marine goes first and this group of 3 ic follow; each of them have look out sir. cobulo will take all the small arm fire; the chaplain will take the 4+ invul; and his job is also to provide reroll to hit and to wound for DC tycho.

He can't help DC Tycho, because DC Tycho isn't an independent character so he can't be joined by the chaplain.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Dazuni wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I think it's a little silly dedicating 4 ICs just to protect the Devastators, it might be better to just put some of them with the Assault Marines to buff them up.

nope; the priest naked is to give fnp to the devs;

cobulo, chaplain and DC tycho is hiding and to hit out on those who come close; they can be send to walk across the board as well; may be assualt marine goes first and this group of 3 ic follow; each of them have look out sir. cobulo will take all the small arm fire; the chaplain will take the 4+ invul; and his job is also to provide reroll to hit and to wound for DC tycho.

He can't help DC Tycho, because DC Tycho isn't an independent character so he can't be joined by the chaplain.

It's probably a good thing that he can't, either, cause he'd be so crazy dangerous....

^ True that

So the feeling with the SR is naked gunship, yeah pretty much agree.

I am still considering to shift a dred and drop with skies of blood. In theory you're only likely to Immobilise yourself once every 6 games...

D

Yeah people tend to worry too much about the dangers of using that, to be honest, in most cases you'll likely be fine.

Me? I'm especially paranoid when it comes to those types of risks, so you've yet to see me try it out, but in theory it should be fine

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Dazuni wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I think it's a little silly dedicating 4 ICs just to protect the Devastators, it might be better to just put some of them with the Assault Marines to buff them up.

nope; the priest naked is to give fnp to the devs;

cobulo, chaplain and DC tycho is hiding and to hit out on those who come close; they can be send to walk across the board as well; may be assualt marine goes first and this group of 3 ic follow; each of them have look out sir. cobulo will take all the small arm fire; the chaplain will take the 4+ invul; and his job is also to provide reroll to hit and to wound for DC tycho.

He can't help DC Tycho, because DC Tycho isn't an independent character so he can't be joined by the chaplain.

my bad, I am treating him as a single person unit; i.e. join by other character; is that not legit?

read it pg 39 single model unit cannot be joined by ic. need to re think how to do the list now.

Maybe just take regular Tycho, then it would be legal since they'd both be ICs.

Can mephiston be instant deathed by a force weapon?

Yes, he doesn't have Eternal Warrior (unless he casts Iron Arm).

Theoretically, but he'd get a psychic hood against it right?

Plus...that has to break his 2+, so they'd have to survive long enough with an AP2 force weapon and break through his T6 to wound him. It's conceivable, but I'm pretty sure that despite it maybe having happened in 5th ed, I doubt it'll happen in 6th ed very often.

Titan Atlas wrote:
Theoretically, but he'd get a psychic hood against it right?

Plus...that has to break his 2+, so they'd have to survive long enough with an AP2 force weapon and break through his T6 to wound him. It's conceivable, but I'm pretty sure that despite it maybe having happened in 5th ed, I doubt it'll happen in 6th ed very often.

umm I'm not sure actually. It might be different between regular Force Weapons and GK ones too, since they function differently. Probably worth checking on YMDC. It'd be a rare occurrence anyway.

Hmm ok then so he should be safe agianst, the various units in an eldar army that can bring force weapons? I have a game against them tomorrow, and don't know what to expect with eldar

He should probably fare well against the eldar, I imagine.

Most force weapon wielders need a 6 to wound him anyway (aside from GK which will probably use Hammerhand as well), so he should be safe. Just be careful to avoid weapons that cause instant death on their own, I know Dark Eldar have a couple like that. Not so sure about Eldar though. Mephiston should also watch out for Runes of Warding from the Eldar, because he could end up committing suicide from that since he relies so heavily on his psychic powers.

I suppose runes could be a bit of a problem, but even without his powers he could still be a beast. Does anyone have any other suggestions for hq? Against eldar. The list im running consists of 40 assualt marines 10 scouts and devastators. At 1500 points, im trying it as a horde angel list.