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 wuestenfux wrote:

 gaovinni wrote:
I have not encountered a mass flyer list so far but I've been taking out enemy fliers with my Razorwing or just lucky hits from the ground troops. If something goes to hover mode though I will not waste the opportunity to take it down.

I'm running 3 Razorwings. So no Ravagers for me as they are easier to take down.

I have never ran a single ravager. Only razorwings. I bought my first one when they came out. The models are just so awesome.

Not sure why a flyer fleet is an issue as dark elder can simply force them to fly over in most cases thanks to the speed of the transports

Newish Dark Eldar player here, some questions

5 Wyches with 5 hawire grandes vs 5 kabalites with a blaster? (both in a venom of course)

Dark Lance or Disintegrator Cannon for the raider?

Do you people take always pgls on your archon when he's with incubi?

 Tunach wrote:
Newish Dark Eldar player here, some questions

5 Wyches with 5 hawire grandes vs 5 kabalites with a blaster? (both in a venom of course)

Dark Lance or Disintegrator Cannon for the raider?

Do you people take always pgls on your archon when he's with incubi?

Wyches with haywires are better tank hunters than Kabilites with a blaster.

In the 5th ed, the world was mech. So Raiders with dark lances were the way to go. In the 6th ed, the world is semi-mech and Termies got a boost (power weapons are AP 3). So Raiders with disintegrators will become more popular.

If you run your Archon with Incubi (or an allied Seer Council), PGLs are a must have.

So I had a realization in the shower today, in regards to Vect's pimp daddy ride.

It benefits from Jink, meaning it can get the 5+ save it was missing out on in 5th.

'Course then I looked at its points cost again and decided to scrap that idea, burn it, salt the earth upon which it was burnt, and erase every record of its existence from the annals of time.

Joking aside, that'd be well over a quarter of your army in one very expensive basket.

I might use it in a fluffy list for friendly play, but the idea of using the dais competitively went as quickly as it came.

I've used it a couple of times, but it's still way too fragile.

AV 13 is nice when your usual armour is 10, but everyone preps to kill AV 14, so it'll still go down hard, especially if they know that it's Vect's ride. They can't resist dumping him in the dust

In view of the Dais, if you want to bring Vect into the thickest melee, this will be the way to go. Moreove, he can buff your army in a way that other Archons cannot.

Id rather DS him with vectored engines on a raider though. That thing is dust once it gets there, may as well save points.

I recently guest wrote a Reaver Tactica for Skari on the SkaredCast Blog. The first part is up, if anyone is interested (if you do go, remember to rate it).

Thanks Mushkilla, great tactica! Will look forward to part 2.

 Ovion wrote:
Razorwings are good dogfighters, Voidravens are better dogfighters.

Lances / dissies from the ground if they hit will do fine.
Otherwise - same boat as everyone else, needs a gun emplacment of some kind. But ultimately, out own flyers are decent enough for the task.

only faced mass newcron flyers once and the dice were in my favor. litereally half my DLs hit, all penned and all exploded the scythes. they had their alpha strike and that was it. I won what should have been a very difficult up hill battle on a long string of lucky 6s

 Lokas wrote:
So I had a realization in the shower today, in regards to Vect's pimp daddy ride.

It benefits from Jink, meaning it can get the 5+ save it was missing out on in 5th.

'Course then I looked at its points cost again and decided to scrap that idea, burn it, salt the earth upon which it was burnt, and erase every record of its existence from the annals of time.

Joking aside, that'd be well over a quarter of your army in one very expensive basket.

I might use it in a fluffy list for friendly play, but the idea of using the dais competitively went as quickly as it came.

It's actually not that bad...

My favorite setup so far is this:
HQ: Asdrubael Vect
1 Dais of Destruction (Raider)(Dark Lance x3; Jink)

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn
9 Kabalite Trueborn, (Shardcarbine x3; Blaster x4; Splinter Cannon x2)

Then I'd add 3 Ravagers (usually one is DL and other two are Dissies)
So, basically... I'd have an AV13 Ravager on the table with Jink, filled with 4x Str 8 blasters and 13-17 Poison shots.

Vect usually goes off by himself or a harlie squad...

Played that list about 5 times already (lemme know if you want to see the list)... won all those games.

We also get to fire 1 more DL on the Dais than in 5th ed after moving cruising.

Baronyu wrote:
We also get to fire 1 more DL on the Dais than in 5th ed after moving cruising.

Yup... so it's like having 4 Ravagers on the table...

So, 200pts for a 4th Ravager that happens to be AV13... I'd say the cost is "about right". Now, the real question should be... is it worth it in that list?

 whembly wrote:

 Lokas wrote:
So I had a realization in the shower today, in regards to Vect's pimp daddy ride.

It benefits from Jink, meaning it can get the 5+ save it was missing out on in 5th.

'Course then I looked at its points cost again and decided to scrap that idea, burn it, salt the earth upon which it was burnt, and erase every record of its existence from the annals of time.

Joking aside, that'd be well over a quarter of your army in one very expensive basket.

I might use it in a fluffy list for friendly play, but the idea of using the dais competitively went as quickly as it came.

It's actually not that bad...

My favorite setup so far is this:
HQ: Asdrubael Vect
1 Dais of Destruction (Raider)(Dark Lance x3; Jink)

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn
9 Kabalite Trueborn, (Shardcarbine x3; Blaster x4; Splinter Cannon x2)

Then I'd add 3 Ravagers (usually one is DL and other two are Dissies)
So, basically... I'd have an AV13 Ravager on the table with Jink, filled with 4x Str 8 blasters and 13-17 Poison shots.

Vect usually goes off by himself or a harlie squad...

Played that list about 5 times already (lemme know if you want to see the list)... won all those games.

That Trueborn Squad is a bit expensive and seems a little schizophrenic. The Cannons/Shardcarbines and Blasters are opposite ends of the spectrum really and you're only really gaining 1 shot from the cannons as you have to keep moving to within 18" for the blasters / carbines, wasting the extra 18" of range on the cannons and the heavy 6.

Personally, I'd go with 2 cannons and then 7 base trueborn. (Or maybe a Haemonculi and 8 Wracks )

That's over a third of your army in a 1500 point list, more than a quarter in a 2,000 point list.

More, once you factor in the Ravagers.

More still once you get Vect an escort.

Once you put in your mandatory troops options, and enough of them that you don't worry about losing all your scoring units to one good shooting phase, you have no points left for any of the other really fun stuff in our army.

Nah, I'll stick with my dozens of cheap units over a few really expensive ones.

The only reason I don't currently fear meltaguns is because my vehicles are cheap enough to throw away. Take that away, and you're just setting yourself up for Vect's pimp daddy ride getting one shot by some form of melta and near 40% of its contents evaporating in the blast.

 Lokas wrote:
That's over a third of your army in a 1500 point list, more than a quarter in a 2,000 point list.

More, once you factor in the Ravagers.

More still once you get Vect an escort.

Once you put in your mandatory troops options, and enough of them that you don't worry about losing all your scoring units to one good shooting phase, you have no points left for any of the other really fun stuff in our army.

Nah, I'll stick with my dozens of cheap units over a few really expensive ones.

The only reason I don't currently fear meltaguns is because my vehicles are cheap enough to throw away. Take that away, and you're just setting yourself up for Vect's pimp daddy ride getting one shot by some form of melta and near 40% of its contents evaporating in the blast.

Well here's the dealio...

We're seeing more foot troops now...

But, there's still a sizable player who will field MSU tank lists.

That trueborn squad is essentially my MEQ/TEQ eraser.

Getting Vect's Ride is like having a 4th Ravager. We that said, that'll allow me to get 2 Dissie Ravagers and 2 DL Ravager platforms. Which is working out really well...

Vect+Harlies are protecting objectives and/or harrassing the enemy's backline.

Oh... and it's the Wyches+Haywire+Venoms that REALLY makes this list work. Those haywires are AMAZING.

So, this list has a really nice balance of poison and darklight shots, along with the usual Eldar allies. Oh... Vect is still a beast.

Here's the full list:
HQ: Asdrubael Vect
1 Asdrubael Vect
1 Dais of Destruction (Raider) (Vehicle (Fast, Open-topped, Skimmer); 10 model capacity; Dark Lance x3; Jink)

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn
9 Kabalite Trueborn, (Shardcarbine x3; Blaster x4; Splinter Cannon x2)

Troops: Wyches
5 Wyches, (Haywire Grenades)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannons (x2); Flickerfield; Jink)

Troops: Wyches
5 Wyches, (Haywire Grenades)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannons (x2); Flickerfield; Jink)

Troops: Wyches
5 Wyches, (Haywire Grenades)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannons (x2); Flickerfield; Jink)

Troops: Wyches
5 Wyches, (Haywire Grenades)
1 Venom (Splinter Cannons (x2); Flickerfield; Jink)

Heavy Support: Ravager
1 Ravager, (Dark Lance x3; Flickerfield; Jink)

Heavy Support: Ravager
1 Ravager, (Disintegrator Cannon x3; Flickerfield; Jink)

Heavy Support: Ravager
1 Ravager, ( Disintegrator Cannon x3; Flickerfield; Jink)

HQ: Farseer
1 Farseer (HQ) [EL],( Runes of Warding; Fortune)

Elite: Harlequin Troupe
2 Harlequin Troupe (Elite) [EL], (Harlequins Kiss x2; Fusion Pistol x2)
1 Death Jester [EL] (Character; Fleet;.Shrieker Cannon)
1 Shadowseer [EL] (Harlequins Kiss)
1 Troupe Master [EL] (Power Weapon)

Troops: Pathfinders
5 Pathfinders (Rangers) (Troops) [EL]

: Aegis Defence Lines
1 Aegis Defence Lines
1 Gun Emplacement [EL] (Quad-gun)

And every time the Dais gets an explodes result, you're likely to lose 4 of the 9 models on board.

And it's exactly like I said. You've got all your mandatory options, vect's pimp daddy ride, vect's escort and that's about it.

It's not a lot of models on the table, especially considering that all of them have good old fashion Deldar fragility. Even the harley bomb isn't all that frightening, considering it's only 7 models strong and doesn't have a secondary 2+ to help prevent flanking shots from ignoring your front man. That's if you don't just ignore the unit completely, if it's being held back to defend objectives that it can't capture.

Hey guys I have a question on a DE list

I have 525-575 to spend on a DE list as ally

I am taking A Vect.
my question is should I go DIAS
or should I go raider.

If i go raider, what loadout?
If i go dias, what tactics.

Taking Kabalite x 10, what loadout?
Taking trueborn x 10, +(Kabalite x 5)what loadout?

Also I know everyone does venom spam these days, but how useful is a raider deep striking with a prime HQ and 10 kabalites w/ blasters and splinter wracks, raider taking retro, flicker, night sheilds, and maybe somthing else?
Curious if anyone has tried that. I hate deep striking honestly. But if I can come down and make compost of an enemy unit or tank in 1 turn while taking them by surprise, then it could seal the deal.

your thoughts...

Not sure what you planned to do with Vect to be honest, he's too costly for what he can bring, but... that's probably just me!

Dais, as mentioned just a few posts above, can kinda function like a AV13 ravager, but together with Vect, that's already 440pts, so if you bring a Dais, you can only fit a warrior unit on with Vect, and since you can only fit 9 of them in, you could at most bring another blaster. Dais requires Vect to be deployed with 9 models, embarked on it.

If you bring raider, and want to bring trueborn, then you'd also need points to buy a troop unit 1st, which would also be quite hard to fit into that points bracket without really sacrificing some upgrades. You could have Vect join another unit if you want to bring 10, but there's hardly any point. If you want to bring a mass of poisoned fire, 4-5 trueborns with shardcarbine on a venom is cheaper than 10 on a raider and the venom more than make up for the loss of shots by being able to fire further and being cheaper; on the other hand, if you want to bring some AT fire in, again, 4 trueborns with blasters on a venom is cheaper and you aren't having extra trueborns just standing around picking their nose while the unit fire at a tank, again, the venom will provide an additional source of AI fire as well. As for warriors, 5 with a blaster or 10 with a SC are the most common setup, former preferably on a venom.

A raider deep striking to AI isn't often used because of scatter, mishap table and that a venom can do to similar effect without having the chance to scatter out of range or worse. And you wouldn't take a blaster when you're bringing warriors on a raider with splinter rack, it's just wasting that rather expensive(for what it can do) upgrade. IMO, I wouldn't count on splinter rack that much, at 24", it's no difference from a venom, at 12", it's a bit better than 4-5 shardcarbines trueborns, but your opponent will have a much easier time sinking something that's at 12" than 18". It's not "AVOID AT ALL COST!!" but also not "OMFG AWESOMEZ!" as some might think it is. Lastly, night shield makes no difference at 12", everything can move into range to fire at full volume, flickerfield makes little difference when you're under mass of fire, whether they ignore cover or not doesn't matter, you're trying to roll 5+ on a lot of dice, so if you're gonna deepstrike a splinter rack gunboat, I'd probably just give it the rack and the retrofire jet, and call it a day, limit the loss and all.

I would think replacing Vect with Duke Sliscus would make sense if you're wanting to deepstrike and splinterfire troops to bits. You could take splinter racks on a Raider (reroll to-hit) and stick him with a squad of Kabalites in it (3+ poison).

The raider could try its luck on enemy armour.

Plus, you get more drugs and free deepstriking for all raiders, venoms and ravagers as part of the deal.

Vect is highly necessary, for his 4+ initiative seize. Im playing eldar so its important, VERY important to go first. This will help limit the times i go second. When I go first I win. period. However, I can forseer the deepstriking raider a bit fragile for a haphazard attack from the sky. I should probably use it as far AT and when they get close move in for the kill.

you guys have any takes on the other raider upgrades available that not many people talk about or use?
exmple: chain snares, torment grenades etc....

Torment grenades used to be fething great and haven't gotten any worse, but all the applications for them have. I used them in 5th to tank shock units off of objectives, the -1 leadership being very bueno when it came to making sure they failed. Tank shocking in general has gotten worse, so I don't really use this trick anymore. Sums up how I feel about the Shock Prow too. The TGL also used to be good for making sure units broke and ran when you wanted them to, but assault in general has gotten worse and shooting has gotten better so I'd feel better with my assault units stuck in for another turn than hanging with their ass out in the wind.

Chain Snares were a very situational but very cheap upgrade that were worth it because we could move 12" and disembark, giving us a good move that laid some hurt down on a enemy squad that we then charged. Can't do that anymore, only a 6" move before disembark. Wouldn't even want to put it on a warrior boat and zip around at 12" while firing your guns, even with splinter racks you have to snap shot and that severely cuts into the damage you'd inflict and the chain flails certainly would not inflict enough damage to make up for the decrease in firepower.

There's generally a reason you'll only see people take night shields and/or flickerfields. They're the only upgrades that are worth it, save for splinter racks in warrior boats. Sure, the other upgrades are only 5 points but you'll rarely, if ever, get any use out of them.

Baronyu wrote:
Thanks Mushkilla, great tactica! Will look forward to part 2.

Part 2 of the Reaver Tactica is up.

@Mushkilla

Woo! Now to just save up some money to build my reavers unit! May be rob a bank or something...

Thanks again! I had actually totally forgotten about the fact that scouring mission means FA are worth 1 VP each...

@CorpseCommander

How about Baron? Vect's initiative bonus is only marginally better than Baron's, but cost a lot more. And you can field more unit either on your end or our end by using a cheaper HQ, hell, if you don't want beastmasters or hellions, just have Baron on his own, he has done his job by giving you that +1! Or have him join any eldar unit to give them stealth!

@Everyone

How does Vect's special preferred enemy works this edition? I mean when against eldars/DE, can he reroll all the to-wounds? Or is it really just a standard preferred enemy now(reroll 1's on to hit/wound during shooting/assault)? And will it apply to the unit he's with? I just have a feeling that since it's a special rule for himself and not one by the USR's name, it's only for him and him alone... (See: Murderous assault)

Also, do you think vexator mask is now worth considering if you're using haemy in assault? Providing you have the points to spare, that is.

Yes, he can reroll all failed to-wound rolls. Always has been able to. The Ancient Nemesis has two very specific effects, He gets Preferred Enemy (Everyone) and he can reroll all failed wounds against Eldar and Dark Eldar. The two are only linked in that they are a part of the same special rule.

The preferred enemy will confer to his unit, as per the BRB.

The rerolls to wound, however, do not. They are their own separate rule and specifically states in their entry "Vect also rerolls all failed wounds."

Vexator mask hasn't gotten any better because leadership is still fairly high across the board. It's got some use in challenges but I wouldn't want my Haemy in a challenge on the likely chance the mask does not work. That being said, it's only 5 points, so I'd say it's worth its cost in that it costs very little and does very little.


Edit: Nevermind, the vexator mask is twice what I thought. Yeah, no. Don't take it. You can get a liquifier gun for the same price or another flickerfield/night shield.

Oh true, I had forgotten that if I was gonna use vexator mask in challenges, he'd most likely be facing guys with ld 9 or higher... But may be if I use another 5pts to park a TGL raider next to the combat!! ...Nah, I guess I'll just buy some nightshields or get some sarge upgrade in for precision shots or something... Ah well!

 Sasori wrote:

CorvidMP wrote:I heard totally unsubstantiated rumors relentless might give rapid fire an extra shot, (heresy online I think it was).

Additionally I've read they get 4+ cover save for just moving now, and a 3+ while boosting (aparently jet bikes get a 5+ cover just for moving and skilled rider bumps it up by one or some such)

I have the rulebook. Listen to me

Bikes and Jetbikes have Jink, which gives them a 5+ just for moving. Turboboosting in the Shooting phase will improve it to a 4+ They also have the Hammer of Wrath rule.

Yes but reaver jetbikes have skilled rider which adds an extra cover point to jink, so its 4+on a move 3+ on a turboboost.

Congratulations, you just corrected a post that was made in June.

 Lokas wrote:
Congratulations, you just corrected a post that was made in June.

I wish one of my first 5 posts did something THAT HELPFUL.... Ok sarcasm aside :-)

To go off of what a few others were say above, (been lurking for quite a while) The venoms are seemingly still the go to transport in most lists as they cater to MSU so damn well. I started dark eldar this edition as allies for my Eldar. I have slowly started taking more and more points worth of dark eldar to the point where I boarder taking dark eldar as my main FOC and Eldar as allies. So thank you GW for your stupid allies chart of $$PROFIT$$$ convincing me to start a second army.

The haywire venoms with night shields are amazing. For my allied troop choices I started with taking a raider with 10 kab's + blaster and a haywire venom with night shields (had a few extra points so i slapped it on). After a few games, I realized how incredible the night shields were and how many times it saved the boat. VS Necrons it is detrimental as they are mostly all 24" range as it is. It really helps deter small arms fire that could glance the venom very quickly. I promptly started taking night shields on all my DE vehicles. I also switched to taking (for my allied detachment) 2 haywire venoms with night shields instead of that raider.

As I slowly build my dark litte army, I will be purchasing more venoms. Everywhere on dakka people are saying mech is dead. But I dont quite think so for DE.