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sLeEpYrOcK wrote:

flaming tadpole wrote:
Can I have some dipping sauce for my 4 piece chicken tenders?

No.

That blows! :(

i

 Red Corsair wrote:
however your list has proven great in just about every other category which is outstanding!

Thanks, I will try and find a way to make my list a bit more balanced in these matchups. Not sure how, but I have a few ideas worth testing.

Honestly?

Your list is fine, Mushkilla.

I can't think of anyone aside from a sore loser who'd call it cheesy.

Hell, if I were to criticize anything at all about it, I'd criticize it for being inefficient in some places. However, you are a fine enough player to make such feedback unnecessary.

Redundancy, AKA spam, isn't a bad thing. It's only bad when it's a criminally efficient/underpriced unit that is being made redundant. I always encourage redundancy, even in fluffernutter lists. It's just a good thing to have.

 Lokas wrote:
Honestly?

Your list is fine, Mushkilla.

I can't think of anyone aside from a sore loser who'd call it cheesy.

Kind words, but I think there was a misunderstanding. When I said I need to make my list more balanced, I meant more effective against a larger range of opponents. It wasn't a response to the "spam" comment. I spent a small fortune on 27 reaver, damn right I'm going to use them, not to mention it means my entire 1500 point DE army fits in one standard GW case, makes carrying it around so easy.

 Lokas wrote:

Redundancy, AKA spam, isn't a bad thing. It's only bad when it's a criminally efficient/underpriced unit that is being made redundant. I always encourage redundancy, even in fluffernutter lists. It's just a good thing to have.

I completely agree, redundancy is really important in any list.

Hahah, my bad.

And yeah, one of the first things I did when sixth dropped was go out and splurge on a metric asston of Reavers.

Haven't regretted it since. They're such fantastic models.

 Mushkilla wrote:

 Lokas wrote:
Honestly?

Your list is fine, Mushkilla.

I can't think of anyone aside from a sore loser who'd call it cheesy.

Kind words, but I think there was a misunderstanding. When I said I need to make my list more balanced, I meant more effective against a larger range of opponents. It wasn't a response to the "spam" comment. I spent a small fortune on 27 reaver, damn right I'm going to use them, not to mention it means my entire 1500 point DE army fits in one standard GW case, makes carrying it around so easy.
.

back in the day the DE battleforce came with 20 warriors, 5 reavers and 1 raider. I bought a ton as the reavers alone made the thing cost effective.

Hey everyone, I just stumbled on this thread and I feel that I have learned tons already.

i was wondering if anyone would be willing to chime in on a potential Archon build that I want to try

Archon
Shadowfield
PGL
Venom Blade.

Does this seem optimal to anyone?

The pgl isn't really necessary unless you're attaching him to a squad of incubi. The venom blade is cheap, but doesn't do as much damage as agonizer. shadowfield is standard.

It's a rather standard setup for an archon, but we really need to know what you want to do with him, which unit are you putting him with? I usually always drug my archon up, but that's just me, I think, it's a cheap upgrade that could get me something good in CC(though I have a record of 90% run drugs so far...). PGL, I'd say is a high recommended upgrade in most cases -most of our worthy assault units have no grenades-, but it depends if your group plays on a terrain heavy table, if your opponents like to hide in cover, etc.

As for venom blade vs agoniser, it depends on who you're planning to use the archon against, against 2+ unit, venom blade would work better, against 3+, agoniser. Huskblade is good(I use it on my archon), but it does cost a lot, so venom blade is a perfectly fine option.

 eldartau1987 wrote:
Hey everyone, I just stumbled on this thread and I feel that I have learned tons already.

i was wondering if anyone would be willing to chime in on a potential Archon build that I want to try

Archon
Shadowfield
PGL
Venom Blade.

Does this seem optimal to anyone?

The problem with any Dark Eldar CC character, from a simple Succubus to Vect himself, is the escort you provide.

Wyches used to be the method of choice, because they are cheap and come with a cheap transport. Plus they fulfilled a support role for any character in CC. Wyches have been nerfed into the ground in that role with the introduction of 6th. They die horribly when their transport blows up. They die horribly when they have to crawl across the board after their transport blows up. They die some more to overwatch fire. And when they somehow managed to reach assault and your tooled up Archon kills your opponent's unit in one go, they die idling in the middle of your opponent's force.

You could put your Archon in a unit with Incubi and put them in a Venom or Raider. Then grab a bucket filled with red paint, dip that transport in it and write "AIM HERE" on it in big white letters. They probably won't die as easily to your opponent's pea shooters, but after wiping out that one squad in assault three times over, you will still be gunned down.

Your Archon with Harlequins can be viable. Stealth + Shrouded protects your retinue quite well. At least until Mr Flamer comes along. PGL not required though. Pairing him with Grotesques can work out ok, at least until their Raider gets blown up. They'll actually survive that though and T5, FnP and some cover will go a long way of keeping the squad alive against enemy fire. Keep the PGL with Grotesques. Both these setups can get quite expensive though, both in points and money.

In my opinion the best option: don't take an Archon. Either take a cheap Heamy as your HQ, sharing that pain token with a blob of Warriors or Wracks. Or get Baron Sathonyx with a Beastmaster squad. They're quite nasty.

ThePhish wrote:
The pgl isn't really necessary unless you're attaching him to a squad of incubi. The venom blade is cheap, but doesn't do as much damage as agonizer. shadowfield is standard.

Damage output of a Venom Blade depends on what it's hitting. It does better than an Agonizer against anything with a 2+ save, and almost always better against T3 than an Agonizer thanks to it being properly poisoned and so the Archon gets re-rolls to wound.

On the charge with a venom blade against MEQ he causes 1 wound, Agonizer causes 2.
On the charge with a VB against TEQ he causes 0.6 wounds, Agonizer causes 0.3.
On the charge against 5+ save GEQ with a VB he causes 2.6 wounds, Agonizer causes 2 wounds.
Against GEQs with a 4+ save the VB causes 1.9 wounds, Agonizer causes 2 wounds.

So the Agonizer, mathematically speaking, is only better against MEQs and T3 models with a 4+ save.

I really should have stated who I was putting him with. I am going to use him with incubi in a raider along with a haemi for the pain token but I do really see the point on just taking a Haemi and forgoing the archon altogether.

I'm kind of toying with the idea of a group of four incubi led by a Haemonculus with the usual toys and a Venom.

Cheaper than the beast star, more limited too, but always AP 2, doesn't need to rely on rends to deal with terminators.

Probably the only 'death star' in the entire DE codex I would consider.

I've noticed that playing DE as my first army has affected my views on every other army. I look at tactical squads who cost something like 190 points and just baulk at the idea of spending that much on something before it even has a transport. Even things that don't really need transports. It's difficult overcoming that urge to put absolutely everything in some sort of dedicated transport.

ThePhish wrote:
The pgl isn't really necessary unless you're attaching him to a squad of incubi. The venom blade is cheap, but doesn't do as much damage as agonizer. shadowfield is standard.

For your viewing pleasure Math-hammer on successful Wounds caused by Archon (Str3) with 5 I7 Attacks (base) with:
5pt Venom Blade: Average - 1.5046


20pt Agoniser: Average - 0.972333333


35pt Huskblade: Average - 0.621


At the end of the day, 2+ Poison is fantastic and for 5 points.

 Lokas wrote:
I've noticed that playing DE as my first army has affected my views on every other army. I look at tactical squads who cost something like 190 points and just baulk at the idea of spending that much on something before it even has a transport. Even things that don't really need transports. It's difficult overcoming that urge to put absolutely everything in some sort of dedicated transport.

I know how this, Oh and how - 250pts for a tank!? that's almost my entire HS budget!

It is severely hampering my ability to try and start a CSM army.

Spending more than 140 points on a 5 man squad WITH a transport is just such a foreign concept to me.

Tau was bad enough, but with using wracks / Grotesques, 120-135 pt troops wasn't that unheard of, but then that's fully kitted out units, so 60-120pt firewarriors and battlesuits wasn't so bad.
But CSM are 140pts base for the 10 men to get special / heavy weapons!

My CSM termi lord is 150 pts with 1 weapon! That's almost 3 Haems. 40+ pts a 1w termi model! 200+ pt vehicles, it's insane...

Yeah, but it all works in the end.

Those units that cost twice as much as one from the Dark Eldar codex can be three times as durable or more. I mean, the armor save alone justifies the extra cost. I've got caught completely forgetting to take my armor saves, being so used to everything ignoring my 5+'s and 6+'s.

Not to mention, all Marines have access to the criminally inexpensive Rhino for dedicated transport. I'm convinced that people complaining about its durability issues are a part of a brilliant comedy bit. Yeah, the Rhino isn't exactly a Land Raider, but a Raider is twice the price and half as durable. A venom even less so.

Hi guys,

I just picked up a bunch of Dark Eldar from a friend who got out of the hobby a while back.

All his DE are old 3rd edition ones, but there's a lot of them, and a bunch of them are metal.

Something like...

60 warriors + 8 with lances / blasters on their shoulders
16 wytches
18 incubi
1 succubus
1 sybarite
3 scourges
7 raiders
9 reavers

My question is... what should I do with these guys?

Can I form a reasonable army out of them without having to buy many new models? I know i'll need to grab an archon and maybe a ravager, but what else do you think I might need to make a decent army out of this lot?

You could. They won't be as pretty as the new ones, but they can be made to look goood none the less.

You'll need more scourges for a legal unit.

The raiders will work fine as rides for the warriors/wyches

9 Reavers is plenty for most uses.

Succubus are ok hq's, or you cold use her as Lelith or Malys.

18 Incubi are a decent holepunch

Ravagers wouldn't hurt. You can get the oldschool ones for near nothing on Ebay

He has Old-School Raiders though - add on some extra lances (possibly extra armour) and that classic Raider is a Ravager!

I'll try and figure out a reasonable list and/or shopping list for you when I'm more awake!

 Lokas wrote:
I'm kind of toying with the idea of a group of four incubi led by a Haemonculus with the usual toys and a Venom.

Cheaper than the beast star, more limited too, but always AP 2, doesn't need to rely on rends to deal with terminators.

Probably the only 'death star' in the entire DE codex I would consider.

.

What do you mean by usual toys?

Venom blade and a liquifier gun.

Possibly a shattershard if there are extra points after I buy everything else I need in the list.

Oh awesome! I do that as well. I just wanted to make sure that I was not missing out on something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thank you,

 Ovion wrote:
He has Old-School Raiders though - add on some extra lances (possibly extra armour) and that classic Raider is a Ravager!

I'll try and figure out a reasonable list and/or shopping list for you when I'm more awake!

I wasn't able to find much on Ebay that would help with a conversion, alas.


I'm thinking, at the moment.... that I might need to pick up an Archon, a Ravager box, a Scourge box.. as a minimum... and anything after that is for extra spice. Am I right in thinking that?

Get some Instant Mold and some Greenstuff / Milliput / whatever, that's an easy way to cast up ridiculously out of production components.

I converted my raiders to have nose mounted, computer controlled, under-slung lances, which combine the old Reaver 'tail' and a lance, so making more is a nightmare - but I'm in the process of casting up 15 more of this incredibly hard to get combination of parts, and going to make and cast, 21 under-slung Dissie Cannons, so I can run all my classic hulls as Raiders or Ravagers, with either weapon

Alternatively, making up Warriors with Lances / Dissies and sticking them on the decking works.
Making a Lance with a classic warrior is easy - use an Elven lance from WHFB (High Elves or Dark Elves), cut off the blade and grip, then glue it to the front of a splinter Rifle that you've cut the barrel off of.
For a Dissie... WHFB Knights? lances cut to half length? (The thicker ones, for a heavier barrel).

Also - cutting the annoyingly oversized wings off the classic raiders is helpful, and good for transporting the models.
As can be seen here:

Items like this on ebay make cheap raiders. http://www.ebay.com/itm/40K-Dark-Eldar-Raider-Hull-Bits-1-Bitz-S-/190740599253?pt=Games_US&hash=item2c690691d5

flaming tadpole wrote:

sLeEpYrOcK wrote:

flaming tadpole wrote:
Can I have some dipping sauce for my 4 piece chicken tenders?

No.

That blows! :(

I know, I feel you, but dipping sauce is just so expensive these days, it just isn't worth it.

I see almost everyone using a sybarite with an squat Kabalites... I have in all my games (against tyranids) never had any close contact with my kabalites, so the sybarite was always very useless... Is he worth the point for the one time you get cc?

And with the 6th E... what can I use the best against those bloody monstrous creatures? I have no elite yet, but they are on my birthday wish list....

manishdra wrote:
I see almost everyone using a sybarite with an squat Kabalites... I have in all my games (against tyranids) never had any close contact with my kabalites, so the sybarite was always very useless... Is he worth the point for the one time you get cc?

And with the 6th E... what can I use the best against those bloody monstrous creatures? I have no elite yet, but they are on my birthday wish list....

he isnt useful in CC, but he might be useful for the +1 ld. Running MSU he isnt worth it, but on a big squad not getting pinned to broken from shooting is important

I never run a Sybarite, I have never found him to be of any use.

I model sybarites just because I like the aesthetic of my squads having squad leaders, but they're equipped with the basic splinter rifle so as to be WYSIWYG, the only difference is that they have more spikes and a big trophy rack.

I also go to great lengths to tell my opponent that they count as regular warriors and have back up warriors if my opponent tells me they're not cool with that. Which has only happened once thus far.