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 Niiai wrote:
I was supriced by how fast the ravenwing army gets to the other side, The darkshroud really helps at it buys him a lott of time. Do you shoot the darkshroud or the bikes? You do not have the time to do both in.

I ignored the darkshrouds completely. Cover saves are great but splinter fire doesn't care about cover, as the bikers armour value is better, and wounding on 4+ means they just get slaughtered. I focus my dark lance fire on the regular landspeeders as they seemed more of a threat.

 Niiai wrote:
Next whennday I am up against IG. Never played them as DE before. I think they are suposebly my worst oponent.

It's a tough matchup if you run into amour 12 spam, otherwise it's not too bad.

Art_of_war wrote:

when i run by gunboats is essential to take 2 venoms (i did put in a 3rd in another list but i'll see about that...) as a very efficient distraction, and a right royal pain in the arse

in my experience its essential to have a blistering response to any potential long range threats, so those long fangs would get mercelessly spammed by splinter shots, or if i feel really mean my raider with my trueborn would stop by for a little chat about firepower suppress these and then you have an advantage.

Venoms are amazing with their range and ability to slaughter stuff. I'm a bit oldschool in that I just prefer raiders, even though venoms are probably the superior choice.

Hi guys,


Help me build a Dark Eldar tournament list


I have 850pts to spend and a fairly limited range of models.

I have wyches, warriors, incubi, raiders, scourges, a ravager, drazhar, archon, and reavers~


I was thinking of taking Lady Malys and putting her in a squad of wyches in a raider, kitted out with haywire, and then a full squad of 10 warriors in another raider, then bringing the ravager for MEQ-killing and a bunch of scourges with blasters for tankbusting.

Ideally I don't want to go out and spend a bunch on expensive models - not in the short term anyway. For the moment just looking to build something good using what I have.

For 850pts, I wouldn't be running a Special Character due to the cost - even Malys' 130pts is roughly 15% of the army, especially being you want to put her with a suicide squad of Haywire Wyches...
I would put Haywire Wyches in squads of 5, in Venoms (cheap with a Flickerfield by default.)

With what you've listed... Budget Archon with a PGL and Venom Blade for the HQ, to go with the Incubi in a Raider would probably be best.

Though getting a Haemonculi for a cheapo, cheapo HQ (65pts for any reasonable loadout. . Be it Haem + Venom Blade + Liquifier Gun or Haem + Hex Rifle)

But ultimately - at 850pts, that means you can fit in quite a bit of stuff with DE - Fairly sure I could fit 8 vehicles in there.

Problem is doing it with the existing bunch of models I have - unfortunately I dont have any venoms and they're a bit cost prohibitive to pick up in the short term =/

Oh I understand completely, and Raiders work fine, just a teency bit more expensive.

But definately, start with the Ravagers and Raiders fill the raiders with a cheap HQ and your troops, then take the Scourges with Haywire Blasters, then possibly the bikes with Cluster Caltrops if there's points to spare.

Haywire Blasters will be better for tank hunting, as they have an effective range of 36", are almost garunteed to glance if they hit (with a slight chance of 2 glances on AV10) and a 1/6 chance of a pen regardless of armour.
All for 10pts cheaper than the 18-30" range of the Str8 AP2 blasters.

Furthermore, I'd take Dissie cannons on the Raiders for hunting terminators and light vehicles.

I kinda wanted to take Sliscus and stick him with the warriors in the raider, but the 10 model limit would have prevented me taking a splinter cannon, so I really wanted to keep that - it seemed easier to bring 9 wyches and a HQ in that squad just for the sake of efficiency.


Good news is, i have a line on some cheap Venoms

Bad news is, I wont have them in time for the tourney. So need to build around my 3x raiders and 1x ravager for the moment.

3 Raiders and a Ravager is good.

Best way to run Sliscus imo is with a 20 man warrior blob boasting 2 cannons behind an Aegis Defence Line.

850pts is pretty awkward :(
It either feels like I'm one unit short of where i need to be, or when i push for that extra one, then everyone seems a bit weak.



My latest attempt has:
an Archon with a power weapon, with 4 incubi, which will sit near an objective
2 squads of 5 wyches with haywire, in raiders
1 squad of 10 warriors with a splinter cannon, in a raider with a splinter rack
1 squad of 5 scourges with 2 haywire blasters
1 ravager with dark lances

Just barely fits under 850, but i dunno.

Archon, Shadowfield, Venom Blade, PGL = 120 pts

5x Wyches, Haywires, Raider, FF = 130 pts
5x Wyches, Haywires, Raider, FF = 130 pts
10x Warriors, Blaster, Raider, FF, SC = 185 pts
10x Warriors, Blaster, Raider, FF, SC = 185 pts

Ravager = 105 pts


I wouldn't do an Archon with the Incubi unless they were in a transport, as there is absolutely no purpose otherwise.

Haemonculi w/ liquifier, venom blade - 65
5x warriors w/ blaster in raider w/ dissy - 120
5x warriors w/ blaster in raider w/ dissy - 120
5x warriors w/ blaster in raider w/ dissy - 120
7x wyches w/ haywire in raider w/ dissy - 134
3x Reaver w/ heat lance - 78
Ravager w/ ff - 105
Ravager w/ ff - 105
-847
Haemonculi either goes w/ wyches or starts w/ reavers to pass token, then hops in a boat and stays there.

At 850, an Archon is just too expensive imo. Eats too many points, same as incubi. Incubi have no shooting and are useless until they make it into cc.

If you wanted more cc, you could swap a squad or two of warriors to wracks.

Will see what I can put together from my collection (its not very big unfortunately).

Don't really have time or money to get new models before the tournament starts - although I might get lucky and have some venoms arrive in the mail on friday.


Let you know what list I take and how it did, monday, after the tourney is over

I had my game against DA Raven wing yesterday. My list was:

Duke
Haemy with hex rifle, crucible of malediction

9 Warriors in Raider, DL, Night shield (With Duke)
9 Warriors in Raider, DL, Night Shield (With Heamy)
5 Haywire Wyches in Venom extra splinter cannon
5 Haywire Wyches in Venom extra splinter cannon

4 Blaster Trueborn in Venom extra splinter cannon
4 Blaster Trueborn in Venom extra splinter cannon

6 Reavers, 2 blasters, cluster caltrops (2 units of 3)

Ravager, Nightsheilds
Cronos
Razorwing

His list was something like

Sammael
2 units of 6 bikes with attack bikes
2 landerspeeder typhoon
Ravenwing command squad I think one of them was a librarian
2 darkshroud landspeeders
Landspeeder vengeance (?)
One of the flyer things

There may have been more bikes, I can't quite remember, and I'm not familiar with the codex.

The game was very enjoyable, we played the relic, and by the end of turn 5 when the game ended, I was left with 4 reavers, everything else had been destroyed!
He had the command squad (this unit proved almost indestructible), the flyer, Sammael and about 4 or 5 bikes left.
He shot my last squad off the relic and grabbed it on the last turn, giving him the victory.
It was a close game, but the amount of 2+ cover saves, 3+ armour saves and 4+ invulnerable saves he could take really made his army hard to kill and they soaked up a huge amount of fire power.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Yeah, Our offensive has gotten better, But what good does it do us if we cant last one turn:( Fnp has gotten slightly better, not enough to make a difference. I may have to use drazhar, his 2+ save will be awesome now

Play a Haemy with your troops. They start with a pain token and that helps.

 Shredder wrote:
He shot my last squad off the relic and grabbed it on the last turn, giving him the victory.

Next time you have the relic move it up to the 1st/2nd floor of a ruin, bikes can't go up stairs making it impossible for him to get the relic.

My DE need some anti air in it.

I am running baron with beats, venom haywire wytches, warrior raider, trueborn blasters with venom and ravagers. Sometimes a razorwing. I also have some other models.

What would be the best anti air gun? Would that be a an aegis defence line or the tower/building? I imagine that I could hide behind the building and it is also harder to block line of sight to.

Razorwings are decent enough at AA, Voidravens are better.

The AA Gun from the defences is always going to be the Quad Gun or Lascannon, but which to take will ultimately depend on you, your army and your local opponents.

If there's a lot of Anti-Tank that can deal with AV14, a building is probably a bad plan, as it'll be blown up in short order
OR you have a lot of stationary foot infantry or vehicles with long range firepower.
In this case the Aegis Defence Line would be best as it'll give a bonus to things cover saves.

If there's not much reliable Anti-AV14 floating about, you have very little stationary infantry or vehicles and/or want something to hide behind in deployment, and/or want a decent fire point with great LOS, then the Bastion is going to be a better bet.

An honourable mention to Fortress of Redemption, which though expensive, gives great line of sight, a great hiding place for deployment, has 2 powerful guns and spots for 4 units. (Plus can give extra firepower with 4 Heavy Bolters - less impressive for some, fantastic for Sisters of Battle. )
But I doubt it would be particularly useful here.

That said, very little of your list seems like it would benefit from the Aegis much - the Ravagers maybe?
But whacking a small squad of Trueborn with 2 lances on top of Bastion wouldn't be a bad plan.

 Niiai wrote:
My DE need some anti air in it.

I am running baron with beats, venom haywire wytches, warrior raider, trueborn blasters with venom and ravagers. Sometimes a razorwing. I also have some other models.

What would be the best anti air gun? Would that be a an aegis defence line or the tower/building? I imagine that I could hide behind the building and it is also harder to block line of sight to.

I think it has been mentioned a couple of times, but the best way to counter air is to avoid it altogether, by moving out of their maneuverable range. Failing that, you could look at:
* One or two Voidraven Bombers (model rumoured to be out soon);
* An aegis defense line with a quad-gun manned by a small naked warrior squad or trueborn with dark lances;
* An aegis defense line with an icarus lascannon manned by an allied farseer with rangers or fire dragons with crack shot/tank hunter exarch.

I am currently trying to wrap my barin around the IG flyers who seem bad. I bet necrons as well would be quite bad. Finaly I read the rules on the inteseptor corectly and it seemed quite good.

It would seem like a funn idea with allies. I can not currently see DE as having mutch use with the quad gun.

A bastion does not seem so bad for the points. If you are up against DE you need a lott of medium fierpower vs thev transports. A AV 14 could ruin somebodies day.

PS: Regarding the razorwing, sice it is mostly anti infantery, would it not be better to give it the heavy 3 cannon instead of the dark lances? I mean, it goes good with the rockets and the venom cannon. That would be an unholy amount of shots. Perhaps it cuuld cut down on the venom spam as well. Eldar allies seems interesting although I am gonne stick to DE for now until they are painted.

Edit: PSS: How about a bastion with a dark reaper echark? Would he get +1 shot and/or ignore cover with the icarus lascannon? That would be mean. Or maguan ra doing it, haha. Somebody mentioned in another thread that they used fuegan on the bastion and he would not jump down due to fearles once the bastion went kablomi. The same would be for magian ra.

Maguan ra, some cheap scoring rangers (lets face it, warriors die to an exploding raider) and some war walkers would be nice. Fire dragon optional? (I do not feel DE need melta? Haywire/blaster born are cheaper arent they?)

 Niiai wrote:
I am currently trying to wrap my barin around the IG flyers who seem bad. I bet necrons as well would be quite bad. Finaly I read the rules on the inteseptor corectly and it seemed quite good.

It would seem like a funn idea with allies. I can not currently see DE as having mutch use with the quad gun.

A bastion does not seem so bad for the points. If you are up against DE you need a lott of medium fierpower vs thev transports. A AV 14 could ruin somebodies day.

PS: Regarding the razorwing, sice it is mostly anti infantery, would it not be better to give it the heavy 3 cannon instead of the dark lances? I mean, it goes good with the rockets and the venom cannon. That would be an unholy amount of shots. Perhaps it cuuld cut down on the venom spam as well. Eldar allies seems interesting although I am gonne stick to DE for now until they are painted.

Edit: PSS: How about a bastion with a dark reaper echark? Would he get +1 shot and/or ignore cover with the icarus lascannon? That would be mean. Or maguan ra doing it, haha. Somebody mentioned in another thread that they used fuegan on the bastion and he would not jump down due to fearles once the bastion went kablomi. The same would be for magian ra.

Maguan ra, some cheap scoring rangers (lets face it, warriors die to an exploding raider) and some war walkers would be nice. Fire dragon optional? (I do not feel DE need melta? Haywire/blaster born are cheaper arent they?)

Maugan Ra is 190+ points and in an allied list you then lose the insanely useful Farseer. The Dark Reaper Exarch will set you back about 135 points for three models and makes you lose the heavy support slot, in which you'd rather have Warwalkers with Scatter Lasers/Shuriken Cannons or a Night Spinner. The Fire Dragon squad only sets you back slightly more than 110 points for five models with a fully upgraded Exarch with Tank Hunters and Crack Shot. And unless you want a Harliestar (as well), that Elite slot is not that awesome. Fast shot is awesome though, especially with the Icarus Lascannon.

Soooo...some fire dragons of top of a building with a quad gun = 4 shots with re-roll at BS 5 with S8? Seems good vs flyers.

Or is the lascannon better? S10 vs flyers. How often do snake eyes happen? One in every 36 shooting phases?

 Niiai wrote:
Soooo...some fire dragons of top of a building with a quad gun = 4 shots with re-roll at BS 5 with S8? Seems good vs flyers.

Or is the lascannon better? S10 vs flyers. How often do snake eyes happen? One in every 36 shooting phases?

Depends on the flyer. Versus AV10-11 flyers you're better off with the quad-gun (which is only S7 and doesn't get +1 on the damage chart due to AP4, but does get rerolls on both to hit and armour penetration with the Exarch). Versus AV12 flyers I'd go for the Lascannon.

Oh, and although the gun is on top of the building, you actually have to be inside the bastion to fire it. Myself, I'd still go for the aegis defense line to abuse cover and objective shenanigans (remember you can't claim objectives from inside vehicles/buildings).

fire dragons cannot claim onjectives anyway.

But the defense line will not help my gliding boats :-( They are to high up I belive? The building looks cool enough.

The wych build is nerfed but the relatively cheap DE vehicles retain their power.

The DE are still a slightly less than alpha strike army. If a DE goes first, they still have the capability of gutting an opponent before he even gets to do anything.

DE IMO remains an army that you know how the game is going to go by turn 2. If the majority of the vehicles are alive, they will probably win. If they are smoking wrecks the T3 troops will die horribly fast.

Remember the opposite side, the opponent also has to deal with HP. 3 penetrating hits and most of his stuff is going to be dead.

I think the nature of the DE build has changed but it is still the glass hammer it always was.

 Niiai wrote:
fire dragons cannot claim onjectives anyway.

But the defense line will not help my gliding boats :-( They are to high up I belive? The building looks cool enough.

Yeah that's true. The Aegis Defense Line won't help any vehicle in both the DE or CWE army as you don't get 25% cover.

 Mandor wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
fire dragons cannot claim onjectives anyway.

But the defense line will not help my gliding boats :-( They are to high up I belive? The building looks cool enough.

Yeah that's true. The Aegis Defense Line won't help any vehicle in both the DE or CWE army as you don't get 25% cover.

It'd probably help War Walkers.

But yeah, my personal preference is Bastion / Fortress.
I'd also go with Barebones Trueborn with lances, or maybe a lone Haemonculi to fire it.

 Ovion wrote:

 Mandor wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
fire dragons cannot claim onjectives anyway.

But the defense line will not help my gliding boats :-( They are to high up I belive? The building looks cool enough.

Yeah that's true. The Aegis Defense Line won't help any vehicle in both the DE or CWE army as you don't get 25% cover.

It'd probably help War Walkers.

But yeah, my personal preference is Bastion / Fortress.
I'd also go with Barebones Trueborn with lances, or maybe a lone Haemonculi to fire it.

Even though I haven't tested it myself, I think the ADL won't provide cover to more than 25% of the War Walkers.

I had a game yesterday:

1500 points. Home made mission in a campaign.

1 Baron Satonyx
12 Nightmare beasts, 4 razorbeack, 2 beastmasters.
Two units of warriors with shard cannon in raider
Two units of grenade wytches in venoms
4 blasterborn in a venom
3 Ravangers

My oponent had IG elysian troops I think
1 Vendetta las cannons
1 Flyer with 20 shots gun with strafing run
1 Flyer with lascannon/autocannon and 4 larger missiles with flamer template

A lot of random units, including some storm troopers, a unit of 3 flamers, a unit with 3 mortars and 2 units with sentinels with heavy bolter.

The mission was an odd mission he had made up based on an old mission from an older edition.

The map was a huge water place. Islands everywhere. The water was dangerous terrain that you could not run in. Skimmers could travel them safely. Some islands and a walkway with some petrol towers on the defenders deployment zone.

A tech priest and some IG was starting near his board edge and trying to move off. Nothing else started on the map. (A bit lame since it negates the bad things with flyers.) My fast attack choise came up on the short board edge turn 1.

My reserves could come from eater side of the long board edges from turn 3.

We had night fighting the first 3 turns (turn 1 nothing really happens) and some odd weather condition makes everything scatter twice the distance, skimmers fly 6" shorter in the movement phase. Flyers have to roll a dice when they move, on a 1 they loose a hull point. Jump infantry moves 6.

We let the baron join the best pack and come on turn 1 (there where nowhere else he could go in my list) and we agreed that he could move the regular 12".

The rules where all over the place. Badly incorporated with 6th edition: a lot of the warlord traits did not function as we where fighting for the control of the teckpriest as the only price. Had we not tweaked the movement rule of the baron I would never have made it over the table in time. Why did the beasts have to run up on the short table edge? It is much better to be in reserves as they could come on from the sides. The terrain, while there was a lot of it, did not really give cover saves (it was little aria terrain, only water vs non water mostly) Also the weather table double scatter really messed up his reserves since all of his came dropping out of the sky. Also, the fact that nothing started on the map sort a ruined some good turns of fun before the flyers appeared.

That being sead it was a really fun game. We had to end it on turn 4 because we had to leave. Some of his units where holding the techpriest so he got the victory. My beast pack would have eaten him the next turn and given me the teckpriest. I also had managed to kill 2 of his flyers and the last one (the rocket ship) did not have any missiles left.

I had no previous experience with flyers, but as long as you keep hugging the sides of the table and do not have targets in every direction that they can shoot at they do not seem so game breaking. True there is no hiding from them on some turns because they shoot like hell. The one I did take out was 6 dark lances getting lucky from a ravager (I had tried for 2 rounds) the other one got taken out in a charge from satonyx and beasts in a multi charge. I charged the vendetta that had dropped of the unit to pick up the techpriest. Unfortunately my opponent rolled a 6 while I rolled a 1 on the sweeping advance.

All in all a very fun match even with the dodgy rules. I do feel the rules need to be incorporated into 6th edition though as victory points are quite crucial. Also, some of the deployment rules where way off. Beast being forced to enter on the short table edge and run across the table? What if it was jump infantry that could only move 6? Sounds odd. Also bringing structures in an army list would not have worked that great since I had no deployment zone.

I was a bit underwhelmed by how fast my things died once they started getting shot at.

I was thinking of running a 20 man blob of warriors with the Duke behind an aegis defense line with quad gun, sit them on an objective. Have the Duke shoot the quad gun, sounds like it could be quite effective.

Can you throw haywire grenades at flyers? A lucky shot would end a flyers day for sure. I may try that when my mate get some flyers, just wyches in venom's with haywire grenades XD that would be awesome

I threw some grenades at flyers yesterday as they came zoooming past. But I did not even hit it. :-/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am also wondering about a new "unit" for dark eldar. We often use wytches now for the haywire grenades, but upon fielding them I was not so impressed. (My oponent had no tanks :-p) However it is a very limited unit that cannot really acive anything. All it does it runn around like a headles chicken, because it would die to owerwatch. How about using true born? They can get haywire grenades. In the meantime give the splinter cannons or carbines for anti infantery. Sudenly you have a double purpose model?