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Coyote81 wrote:
It does, although I wouldn't have worried about them doing that anyways. With this faq, I think Tau can be a truely competitive army in the right hands. Allies are still a must if allowed though. IMO, it's the cake topper they need to be competitive. (Supid inability to take forward objectives)

Everyone says that, But I have no trouble taking forward objectives using the Seaturtle tactic.

In every objective game Ive played so far, having the pathfinders' Devilfish Flat out infront of my Forward moving fire warriors has allowed me to work towards the forward objectives without any allies.

It should be even more effective now that a Flat out Devilfish out of Melta range has a 2+ cover.

Only way of that atm Ovion is forge world heavy gun drones which suck ass currently :( An armoured drone is good, but BS2 lets them down.

I would love Rail Rifles as a suit / stealth suit option, and the option to take special weapons on drones. TL Flamer Drones, anyone? Or TLFB / TLPR drones?

Being able to mount a bigger gun on a Heavy Drone attached to a FW squad would be perfect. Give Heavy Drones Relentless and Bulky; that would let you still put them in DFish while limiting size. Make them take up 2 drone control points too, so you've only got 1 per squad. Would really really open things up for Tau.

You can still do Forgeworld Sentry Drone Turrets, though. More weapon options, tougher, are troop options. Immobile, but you can buy them Deep Strike and Disruption Pods if you want to. BS2 isn't great, but TL BS2 is better than BS3 base, so IMO they're a good buy.

A TLMP turret with Deep Strike and Disruption Pod weighs in at 45 points. About the same as a Deathrain, only T7 and gets Shrouded.

I plan to invest in some in the near future - though I'll probably convert Heavy Gun Drones since they're a lot cheaper

I know for my end, Forgeworld is going to figure heavily into my basic army design, especially at the Fast Attack slot. Tetras, Remoras, Barracuda, XV-9's, there's a lot of variety there that i can take advantage of.

Bigger question, and a rephrase of one I put in earlier... how do you folks determine how many markerlights you bring in a given size force? Do you plan around a set number for a set volume of points, or do you lean heavily on composition to determine that?

Well it depends on how many markerlights you feel you need per turn.

If you are using Pathfinders, 1/2 of those Markerlights will hit. I like to have 3 markerlights per target( 2 raise BS to 5, 1 reduces Cover by 1 or ignores nightfighting) so I need no less than 5 pathfinders for a squad of pathfinders.

If you use tetras, you get 4 shots per tetra at bs4. 2/3s of those will hit (so about 3 hits) so I would only need one tetra in a squad for my 3 markerlights.


Sometimes you'll roll really well and get more hits, some times you'll roll lower, but on average you'll net 3 each turn they fire at full strength.


This is also at 2k. I've no experience with tau at any other level.

 Iur_tae_mont wrote:

Coyote81 wrote:
It does, although I wouldn't have worried about them doing that anyways. With this faq, I think Tau can be a truely competitive army in the right hands. Allies are still a must if allowed though. IMO, it's the cake topper they need to be competitive. (Supid inability to take forward objectives)

Everyone says that, But I have no trouble taking forward objectives using the Seaturtle tactic.

In every objective game Ive played so far, having the pathfinders' Devilfish Flat out infront of my Forward moving fire warriors has allowed me to work towards the forward objectives without any allies.

It should be even more effective now that a Flat out Devilfish out of Melta range has a 2+ cover.

Then your opponenets have given up taking meltaguns which is still one of the ebst anti tank weapons in the game. With a nice application of meltaguns, your seaturtle tactic quickly becomes 2 KP for a smart opponent. Anyone playing against TAu should know one thing, if you can move closer and then fire, do it. Firing from pointblank rangem, and assaulting where possible is who to beat us. With my Tau, I love playing against opposing shooty armies. Have never lost a shootout, Tau are just to resilent and have the weapons to pick apart enemy threats.

Without a fluff retcon I dunno that they'd give us much troop-portable heavier weaponry. The schtick has always been that Fire Warriors only have access to Seeker Missiles, with other firepower coming in the form of various kinds of suits.

Still - better access to rail rifles - say sniper drones becoming fast attack and pathfinders becoming troops? - would be a big help, certainly, but I dunno.




...of course, we could just get a fluff retcon or... something. Supposedly right now the Tau (as of 4E Codex) are early in the 3rd Sphere of Expansion, under the command of Shadowsun. So maybe next codex is set after this wave of expansion and with different forces as a result of that campaign?

PHIL KELLY, WE NEED YOOOOU

Wouldn't mind seeing Rail Rifle toting Stealth teams.

 Micky wrote:
...of course, we could just get a fluff retcon or... something. Supposedly right now the Tau (as of 4E Codex) are early in the 3rd Sphere of Expansion, under the command of Shadowsun. So maybe next codex is set after this wave of expansion and with different forces as a result of that campaign?

GW will never press the timeline furthur on, so the Tau will be stuck in third shere expansion Im afraid

Why wouldn't they?

Its practically required if they want to keep making campaign books, new models and stuff like that SOME sort of explanation of where stuff come from other then "well, it was always there, you just never saw it" must be given.

If the plot it stuck, people will retire. and that's the last thing they want.


Sure, it wont advance quickly, and the status-qou will remain, but events WILL happen.

The timeline did advance from 3rd edition to 4th edition without actually changing very much.

What's more likely - a short timeline advance, or a retcon?

You can always do campaign books from historical areas, like FW, or actions with limited scope. The last normal GW campaign book was back in 3rd as well so they can just always release a certain battle or something. Advancing the timeline doesnt seem to be a priority since we are gearing up for an already completed 3rd edition campaign according to fluff.

What I would like to see is a reserve of missiles off the board. Say one per troop choice per turn. Or maybe a selection of space born shots depending on the situation. You could still have skyrays for close support caddies.

We are the ally army so it seems fitting that if anyone could take allies it would be us, but in all the discussion no one really mentions taking allies. I was wondering if you guys do take allies which ones do you take?

I was thinking about taking Eldar allies. A farseer with fortune thrown in a group of broadsides with shield drones seems like an unstoppable killing force. Add in a Shas'el with body guards and retro thrusters and you can blow everything up with your massive fire power and if they do get you into combat you can zoom out of it and then shoot them to death. The 2+/4++ shield drones with fortune have a 2.8% chance of failing their armor save and a 25% chance of failing their invulnerable save.

With eldar allies you could take 3 jetbikes as a troop choice and keep them in the back to zoom to an objective at the end of the game. Harlequins could be used to take out anything your shooting can't. I don't think eldar has any heavy support worth taking over our heavy support.

But then again every time I see allies I always feel like it is cheating.

I'm a racist so I don't use allies.

Well, I have been considering Space Marine allies for a while now.

A MotF with a conversion beamer leading a few sniper scouts and a thunderfire cannon can do wonders for our gunline part of the army, and a drop-pod ironclad can be useful to rain havoc in enemy lines and slow them down from coming to us.

I've looked at Marines primarily to get a Librarian and Tactical squads on the field to give us better troop options, but for now I'm going to figure out what fire warriors can and cannot do, and go from there.

Seeing as I'm always struggling to fit in the stuff I want as it is, I don't really have room for allies.

 lazarian wrote:
You can always do campaign books from historical areas, like FW, or actions with limited scope. The last normal GW campaign book was back in 3rd as well so they can just always release a certain battle or something. Advancing the timeline doesnt seem to be a priority since we are gearing up for an already completed 3rd edition campaign according to fluff.

What I would like to see is a reserve of missiles off the board. Say one per troop choice per turn. Or maybe a selection of space born shots depending on the situation. You could still have skyrays for close support caddies.

I'd be happy with a unlimited skyray missile rack but yes, off board missiles would be nice. However for a model company like gw unsurprisingly the off board (so no models) support choices are terrible.

bthom37 wrote:

I'd be happy with a unlimited skyray missile rack but yes, off board missiles would be nice. However for a model company like gw unsurprisingly the off board (so no models) support choices are terrible.

Sky Rays with an unlimited supply of missiles would indeed be a great thing to do, although wouldn't quite make up for its other flaws. It would help if the missiles hit automatically or had ignore cover or something.

What if the two markerlights were changed to A: be twin-linked for better accuracy, or B: were upgraded to be like the Tetra markerlights?

 Micky wrote:

bthom37 wrote:

I'd be happy with a unlimited skyray missile rack but yes, off board missiles would be nice. However for a model company like gw unsurprisingly the off board (so no models) support choices are terrible.

Sky Rays with an unlimited supply of missiles would indeed be a great thing to do, although wouldn't quite make up for its other flaws. It would help if the missiles hit automatically or had ignore cover or something.

What if the two markerlights were changed to A: be twin-linked for better accuracy, or B: were upgraded to be like the Tetra markerlights?

Actually, I get the feeling that in the next codex, the Sky-ray will become the Tau equivalent of the Razorback. You will see its front and side armour drop by 1 to become the same as the devilfish and that it will become a dedicated transport option for the pathfinders or some such unit that limits the access. Transport capacity will be 8 models.

As for changes to the markerlights? I could see them becoming rapid fire with a 24" range and the networked becoming primarily a vehicle only weapon that is Heavy 2 or heavy 4(Depending upon how markers are re-worked in the next 'dex)

Well that enough off-topic wish-listing for now.

(Back on Topic)

Everybody ready for the shrouded dance party that Mech Tau is now? Thats right, its a ninja rave baby. May have to model my tanks & piranha to play a techno version of "Ride of the Valkeries".

BTW, have updated the OP to reflect the new faq goodness.

Also, thanks to all of you posters that are keeping the thread going.

 lambsandlions wrote:
We are the ally army so it seems fitting that if anyone could take allies it would be us, but in all the discussion no one really mentions taking allies. I was wondering if you guys do take allies which ones do you take?

I was thinking about taking Eldar allies. A farseer with fortune thrown in a group of broadsides with shield drones seems like an unstoppable killing force. Add in a Shas'el with body guards and retro thrusters and you can blow everything up with your massive fire power and if they do get you into combat you can zoom out of it and then shoot them to death. The 2+/4++ shield drones with fortune have a 2.8% chance of failing their armor save and a 25% chance of failing their invulnerable save.

With eldar allies you could take 3 jetbikes as a troop choice and keep them in the back to zoom to an objective at the end of the game. Harlequins could be used to take out anything your shooting can't. I don't think eldar has any heavy support worth taking over our heavy support.

But then again every time I see allies I always feel like it is cheating.

Except, at least in this particular instance, it really isn't cheating - you can't use fortune on the broadsides and their drones. A harly-star with fortune-seer, however...

 focusedfire wrote:

 Micky wrote:

bthom37 wrote:

I'd be happy with a unlimited skyray missile rack but yes, off board missiles would be nice. However for a model company like gw unsurprisingly the off board (so no models) support choices are terrible.

Sky Rays with an unlimited supply of missiles would indeed be a great thing to do, although wouldn't quite make up for its other flaws. It would help if the missiles hit automatically or had ignore cover or something.

What if the two markerlights were changed to A: be twin-linked for better accuracy, or B: were upgraded to be like the Tetra markerlights?

Actually, I get the feeling that in the next codex, the Sky-ray will become the Tau equivalent of the Razorback. You will see its front and side armour drop by 1 to become the same as the devilfish and that it will become a dedicated transport option for the pathfinders or some such unit that limits the access. Transport capacity will be 8 models.

As for changes to the markerlights? I could see them becoming rapid fire with a 24" range and the networked becoming primarily a vehicle only weapon that is Heavy 2 or heavy 4(Depending upon how markers are re-worked in the next 'dex)

Well that enough off-topic wish-listing for now.

(Back on Topic)

Everybody ready for the shrouded dance party that Mech Tau is now? Thats right, its a ninja rave baby. May have to model my tanks & piranha to play a techno version of "Ride of the Valkeries".

BTW, have updated the OP to reflect the new faq goodness.

Also, thanks to all of you posters that are keeping the thread going.

Have been unable to find a Techno / Electronica version of RotV that didn't sound like utter ass - let me know if you manage it, but atm it's a big crimp in your plan xD

I think from a Fire Warrior perspective, they are best spammed in squads of 6. I did this with 3 squads in 1500 with a triple warlock farseer and 3 suits (They were squads relevant to this) and i found the fire warriors were very very good at mopping up remains of Priesience Fireknifes (THats the divin primaris) and as well as this using 2 squads to reduce one to next to nothing. I reduced a harlequin squad of 10 to 3 with many fire warriors, whilst using the suits to bombard other things.

In terms of counter horde all the warlocks had destructor (Heavy flamer) and i had a shas'o /w AFP and Cyclic for messing up guardsmen squads / guardians etc.

Moving on to allies, eldar are an excellent choice. I was lucky enough to get misfortune (number 3 on the div chart, if its not called misfortune it doesnt matter, i got number 3 ) and this made my opponent re-roll his successful saves. My fireknife squad (with priesience also) flattened a farseer /w fortune and 5 warlocks. Many many many saves were rolled but they were just a farseer towards the end.

Stealth Suits are lovely now. In practice they work very well as an outflanking unit. I fielded 5 with 5 gun drones and just put each drone in front of its owner for wound alloc. Turn 3 i came on and blitzkrieged the striking scorpions with volume of fire (+tetra support). And in other game i managed to take on an entire power blob ^^ (crater goodness, poor drones got plasma to the face tho..)

Before the FAQ I constantly ran 4 squads of Firewarriors with 6 troops each. It was incredibly effective because I had the firepower of two full squads but the ability to shift half of the squad to wherever it is needed. Kinda like a psudo target lock. But post FAQ, I'm considering going back up to 2 12 man squads and giving them each a devilfish and abusing the cover save on my sea turtles.

I feel that we've beaten good units to death and have a solid idea of what works and what doesn't by this point. What I would like to shift this discussion to is how to handle a heavy drop pod list. Last time I played I got flattened by a three DP list with a biker squad that essentially pincered me in my DZ. My opponent's turn one pods had a sternguard with a librarian and a dreadnaught. I managed to clear them but the third dropped with a tactical squad that lit my remainder up. All this time, the bikers are roaring up into assault from the other direction.

How would you approach tackling a list like this? I've been wracking myself over it ever since that game and would love to hear opinions on general coping strategies.

Putting your own models in reserve should reduce the effectiveness of their pods.

Keep 'choice targets' held back, such as Hammerheads, maybe Broadsides, a D'Fish or two with troops in, etc.

Also - wouldn't 4 squads of 6 still be better, that way, 2-4 squads can have fish, and fire at different targets.

ALSO, target lock only allows the model with it to split fire, so only 1 model of 12 can fire at a different target.

 Ovion wrote:
Putting your own models in reserve should reduce the effectiveness of their pods.

Keep 'choice targets' held back, such as Hammerheads, maybe Broadsides, a D'Fish or two with troops in, etc.

I always keep hammerheads in reserve, but the issue is that turn 1 droppods will just enter the battlefield and blow the everliving crap out of whatever I have on the board with me having a chance of my reserves actually not showing up. I feel that would be a bit too risky.

Also - wouldn't 4 squads of 6 still be better, that way, 2-4 squads can have fish, and fire at different targets.

Possibly, but I would be keeping the fish in reserve and have them rock up to wherever needs the extra help. I also save 20 points by not having to take the extra Shas'ui for the two other squads. Sure, it's not much but it may be important. I'm still toying with making new lists but I absolutely love the idea of the full devilfish rocking up turn 2-3 and pushing my enemy off an objective to claim it themselves.

ALSO, target lock only allows the model with it to split fire, so only 1 model of 12 can fire at a different target.

It was a figure of speech, hense the word "psudo", meaning behaves like. I was using that to mean that I it was like having one large 12 man squad being able to fire at two separate targets. Not actually having a target lock.

My point was, 2 seperate squads = better than target lock.

Allowing 2 targets to be chosen with a reasonable amount of fire pointed at each, while Target Lock only allows 1 model to do the same.
It's useful for markerlights, but not much else on Firewarrior squads.

I think you missed the point ovion. 4x Squads of 6 means you can split those 6 pulse rifles anyway you want, so 4 targets and 24 pulse firepower. 2x squads of 12 halves the targets but maintains firepower. Essentially you choose versatility and fragility, the 6 man squads, or you choose less but tougher squads, with concentrated firepower.

The latter against MEQ armies, but against for example power blobs the 6 man squads are much better.

Especially if you stick markerlights, Target locks and multi-trackers on the Shas'ui team leaders.

So if you use the shas'ui to markerlight the unit you want to shoot at next (whilst also getting a pulse rifle shot off at it) then the FW squad which does shoot at that target could be BS4. The FW shas'ui from that unit can then mark and shoot at another unit so yet another FW squad can fire at BS4.

Alternatively all the squads shoot at the same target, (hopefully) using the markerlight hit from the unit which shot immediately before and setting up a new one for the next unit to use. The shas'ui from the last unit to fire can split fire and stick a markerlight on another unit for something else in your army to use, such as reducing the cover save on a vehicle so your Railguns aren't wasted.

I see...its like a markerlight merry go round. Can be done with 2 squads also Clever!

Also, using what i've learnt so far i've come up with this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/475589.page#4753692