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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 23:34:36
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Godless-Mimicry wrote:Just back from a 5 game weekend tournament; got there on time this time
Managed 5th place, a point short of 4th, and 3 short of podium. Got big wins over Blood Angels, Grey Knights and Daemons as well as a slightly smaller win over Necrons. This left me leading the pack 10pts ahead of all opposition for game 5, and then my dice decided to abandon me in favour of my opponent (who was also using my dice) and I lost big time to a Grey Knight/Necron alliance.
1st place went to that Grey Knight/Necron list, 2nd to the Daemons I beat (all Tzeentch BTW, 18 Flamers and 18 Screamers), 3rd to Necrons, and 4th to Imperial Guard.
I don't think I'll have time for reports on this one, but if anyone wants to ask me any questions about any of the match-ups they can ask away.
What was your list, I'm assuming given the paladin changes you changed it? Similarly what did your Grey Knight opponents field?
Always interesting to hear what choices people are finding competitive success with.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/07 23:35:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 23:43:24
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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Godless-Mimicry wrote:Just back from a 5 game weekend tournament; got there on time this time
Managed 5th place, a point short of 4th, and 3 short of podium. Got big wins over Blood Angels, Grey Knights and Daemons as well as a slightly smaller win over Necrons. This left me leading the pack 10pts ahead of all opposition for game 5, and then my dice decided to abandon me in favour of my opponent (who was also using my dice) and I lost big time to a Grey Knight/Necron alliance.
1st place went to that Grey Knight/Necron list, 2nd to the Daemons I beat (all Tzeentch BTW, 18 Flamers and 18 Screamers), 3rd to Necrons, and 4th to Imperial Guard.
I don't think I'll have time for reports on this one, but if anyone wants to ask me any questions about any of the match-ups they can ask away.
Interested in what the Necron/ gk list was like, was it just bad luck on your dice or was it a good list?
As above, were you using the same as before with paladins etc?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 00:18:15
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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silly as it sounds, I was pioneering the gk + necron alliance eariler on page one but have yet to actually build the damn thing. Curious if he was using what I had in mind:
coteaz + henchmen for holding things
Doomscythe
night scythes
Wraiths + D Lord
a purifier squad for shooting and counter attack
maybe a storm raven too
and probably DK or AC dread based on prefernce
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 00:31:58
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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@Lanlaorn; my last list was 1999pts, this one was 1850pts, so as well as replacing Draigo and co' I had to cut points. Long story short, they got swapped for 10 Purifiers and a 10th Strike for my old 9 man squad, and then I put Psybolts everywhere.
@tuiman; good list, but prone to bad match-ups, however mine was good match-up for him as his list was very fast. Bad luck with silly in the game to the point that my opponent was even cursing the dice gods at how bad some of my rolls were. He is a better player than I am, and I was expecting a loss, just not such a big loss.
@sudojoe; not even close. He had Imotekh, 12 Immortals with a Veiltek, 2 Warrior squads in N-Scythes, 2 D-Scythes, Mordrak, 5 Terminators with Thawn, and a teleporting Dreadknight. The purpose of the Grey Knights was simply to harass stuff.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 00:45:15
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller
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Godless-Mimicry wrote:
@sudojoe; not even close. He had Imotekh, 12 Immortals with a Veiltek, 2 Warrior squads in N-Scythes, 2 D-Scythes, Mordrak, 5 Terminators with Thawn, and a teleporting Dreadknight. The purpose of the Grey Knights was simply to harass stuff.
WTF did he do with a mordrak that couldn't join any GK units?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/08 00:45:53
Inquisitor Jex wrote:Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.
Peregrine wrote:So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 01:00:45
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Wait wait wait, doesn't he know that imotekh's lightning also shoot his GK's? madness!
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 05:39:58
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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sudojoe wrote:Wait wait wait, doesn't he know that imotekh's lightning also shoot his GK's? madness!
and mind of the machine can't be used out of a barge but they still try it, dirty necron players, as if their book was not strong enough already
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 11:08:53
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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@Coyote; he used Mordrak for Grand Strategy (cheapest method of getting it), Psychic Communion (Deep Striking Termies and DK), and Deep Striking out of LOS ready to charge things like Long Fangs who could do nothing about it.
@sudojoe; the Grey Knights more often than not Deep Struck, so by the time they hit the lightning was gone, and none of the units were particularly vulnerable to it anyway, especially given it only has a 1/6 chance to go off.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 13:00:26
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Mordrak's 15 points more expensive than a bare-bones GM though, and the GM can join other units.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 13:54:46
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller
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tuiman wrote: sudojoe wrote:Wait wait wait, doesn't he know that imotekh's lightning also shoot his GK's? madness!
and mind of the machine can't be used out of a barge but they still try it, dirty necron players, as if their book was not strong enough already
Mind of the machine can be used out of a barge. The faq in the main rule book that said it couldn't be used in 5th, was removed in the 6th ed faq update.
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Inquisitor Jex wrote:Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.
Peregrine wrote:So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 14:47:08
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Godless-Mimicry wrote:@Coyote; he used Mordrak for Grand Strategy (cheapest method of getting it), Psychic Communion (Deep Striking Termies and DK), and Deep Striking out of LOS ready to charge things like Long Fangs who could do nothing about it.
@sudojoe; the Grey Knights more often than not Deep Struck, so by the time they hit the lightning was gone, and none of the units were particularly vulnerable to it anyway, especially given it only has a 1/6 chance to go off.
I'm kind of baffled at what he'd use for the grand strat with so few GK units. Scout the DK up I suppose or outflank the terminators? reroll 1's for Thawn? Also, modrak while is pretty nice for CC, is still just one guy and can be ID'ed as well as not having stealth by himself, and can be tarpitted pretty badly by hordes. He is 15 points more but does have that no scatter deep strike going for him as well as an extra wound and attack with a hammer. Also just a 4++ iron halo, I'd almost be scare to throw him against actual CC units but I guess that's where positioning comes in.
I have guys with incubi, TH/ SS terminators in LR's that would not hesitate to kill him then move on to re-engage other targets by turn 3 but then I guess they are just distraction units. Hrm.. I'm really gonna have to go try a bare bones modrak a few times. I almost always spend way too many points getting ghost knights. Also I've noticed that when I do DS out of LOS, I tend to not be able to really engage well with how bad assaulting through terrain has gotten in 6th. I've had guys just keep running from me and kite into one of their dedicated CC units and just shoot snap shots.
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 14:58:17
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Fixture of Dakka
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Godless-Mimicry wrote:@Lanlaorn; my last list was 1999pts, this one was 1850pts, so as well as replacing Draigo and co' I had to cut points. Long story short, they got swapped for 10 Purifiers and a 10th Strike for my old 9 man squad, and then I put Psybolts everywhere.
@tuiman; good list, but prone to bad match-ups, however mine was good match-up for him as his list was very fast. Bad luck with silly in the game to the point that my opponent was even cursing the dice gods at how bad some of my rolls were. He is a better player than I am, and I was expecting a loss, just not such a big loss.
@sudojoe; not even close. He had Imotekh, 12 Immortals with a Veiltek, 2 Warrior squads in N-Scythes, 2 D-Scythes, Mordrak, 5 Terminators with Thawn, and a teleporting Dreadknight. The purpose of the Grey Knights was simply to harass stuff.
Congrats Godless,
That necron unit sounds wrong. Immortals max out at 10.
I hope he wasn't deepstriking the termies with Mordrak.
Other than that, I think GK's + Crons go well together. While crons don't really need the knights, any army can benefit from allied necron flyers, especially the slower grey knights.
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BTW, here's a shameless plug-in to my Apoc battle report.
One of the GK players came late into the game, played just 1 turn and then had to leave. Lol. He brought Draigo, 5-pallies, Stormraven, GKLR, dread and some strikers. They killed 1 flyrant, a carnifex, contributed to the demise of another flyrant and then....POOF! They were gone like the wind before the bugs even had a chance to retaliate.
Report here for any who's interested.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 18:08:02
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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jy2 wrote:Congrats Godless,
That necron unit sounds wrong. Immortals max out at 10.
I hope he wasn't deepstriking the termies with Mordrak.
Other than that, I think GK's + Crons go well together. While crons don't really need the knights, any army can benefit from allied necron flyers, especially the slower grey knights.
Seems you are right. That being said, those Immortals didn't take much part in the game, killing only a few Purifiers. In fact the Grey Knights killed nothing either, it was the 4 Scythes over 6 turns that destroyed every part of my army, though it took right to the last shot of the last turn to do it.
Taking that into account, it was lousy luck that spelled my doom really, as I was hitting the Scythes plenty but was fluffing all my penetration rolls, and if those Scythes died when they should have, that was more KP for me and a lot more of my models still alive.
Conversely I think Living Metal is stupid.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/09 06:12:18
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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After taking my hiatus I am ready to start back playing again! 6th edition has rolled around and I am building a grey knight list but I am worried that I dont have enough anti-air weaponry. I only have 4 psycannons and 1 dreadnaught in 2k? Besides the doomscythe I dont see their damage output being to much of a concern, or am I missing something?
Fortitude!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/09 06:14:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/09 13:31:42
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Fixture of Dakka
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Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Taking that into account, it was lousy luck that spelled my doom really, as I was hitting the Scythes plenty but was fluffing all my penetration rolls, and if those Scythes died when they should have, that was more KP for me and a lot more of my models still alive.
Yeah, that seems to happen to me also in my games against the crons. With psyflemans and Prescience, I can hit them. However, I never seem to roll well on the penetration rolls against those flyers. That just goes to show that you can never have enough shooting.
CKO wrote:After taking my hiatus I am ready to start back playing again! 6th edition has rolled around and I am building a grey knight list but I am worried that I dont have enough anti-air weaponry. I only have 4 psycannons and 1 dreadnaught in 2k? Besides the doomscythe I dont see their damage output being to much of a concern, or am I missing something?
Don't under-estimate the tl-tesla destructors. When used in bulk (i.e. annihilation barge and the scythes), they are quite devastating. They'll wipe out most tanks, AV12 and less, in just 1 or 2 volleys usually and can put a lot of hurt into infantry when they focus-fire. 2+ models help somewhat, but necrons will just deal with them just like the grey knights....through volume-of-fire (and with the doom scythes).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/09 15:34:14
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Twice over the weekend in different games I had a Storm Raven taken out in one try by a Night Scythe; never underestimate the Tesla.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/09 16:20:33
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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CKO wrote:After taking my hiatus I am ready to start back playing again! 6th edition has rolled around and I am building a grey knight list but I am worried that I dont have enough anti-air weaponry. I only have 4 psycannons and 1 dreadnaught in 2k? Besides the doomscythe I dont see their damage output being to much of a concern, or am I missing something?
You really should have WAY more psycannons.
At least 8 psycannons and a few TL-assault cannons with psybolts(Razorbacks, Stormravens, etc...)
Whats your exact list?
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/09 22:31:25
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Godless-Mimicry wrote:Twice over the weekend in different games I had a Storm Raven taken out in one try by a Night Scythe; never underestimate the Tesla.
It's one of the reasons why I've been hating the necron airforce for a while now. However, I do plan to join it <_<...... Even with flak missles, I don't think we'll see an end to necron fliers honestly. They are too cheap for the guns and field advantage they bring as well the Alpha strike ability.
I really need to get off my butt to go build the necron + GK list but I'm building up Tau with a hint of eldar and Sisters + GK for purely fluff reasons. Maybe after I get some more money....night jobs are tough to keep doing
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/10 03:22:04
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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I know that the tl-telsa destructor are good, but its not deadly unless they have multiples of them. They have to manuvere those things around which is alot easier said than done, not all of them are going to come in at one time, and a weapon destroyed result is almost as good as a destroyed result. I believe I can take advantage of those things to minimize the power of flyers.
Grey Templar wrote:
You really should have WAY more psycannons.
At least 8 psycannons and a few TL-assault cannons with psybolts(Razorbacks, Stormravens, etc...)
Whats your exact list?
Hq
Xenos Inquisitor Power Armour, Force Sword, Bolt pistol, Rad Grenades, Psychotroke Grenades, 2x Servo Skulls, Psyker Upgrade
Xenos Inquisitor Power Armour, Force Sword, Bolt pistol, Rad Grenades, Psychotroke Grenades, 1x Servo Skulls, Psyker Upgrade
Troops
10x Grey Knight Strike Squad 2xPsycannons, 2xHammers, 2xHalberds, 3xSwords, Justicator MC Warding Stave, Psybolt Ammunition
10x Grey Knight Strike Squad 2xPsycannons, 2xHammers, 2xHalberds, 3xSwords, Justicator MC Warding Stave, Psybolt Ammunition
Fast Attack
10x Grey Knight Interceptor Squad 2xIncinerators, 2xHammers, 2xHalberds, 3xSwords, Justicator MC Warding Stave, Psybolt Ammunition
Heavy Support
Dreadnaught 2xTL Autocannons, Psybolt Ammunition
Nemesis DreadKnight Personal Teleporter, Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator
Ally (Space Marines)
Hq
Librarian Force Axe, Bolt Pistol
Troops
5x Tactical Squad Razorback ( TL Heavy Bolter)
Elite
5xAssault Terminator Squad ( Th & SS)
The Inquisitors buff up the strike squads with their grenades in cc and boast shooting with prescience psychic power. The Justicator has a warding stave so it can issue challenges with a 2+ invulnerable sv, the grenades combine with the challenge will give the unit the advantage in cc against most units.The Interceptor squad is perfect for long fang units, fortifications, and blob squads. Their shunt move will allow them to take advantage of any mistake that my opponent may make.
The dreadnaught needs no explanation, unlike the Dreadknight. It is a mismatch problem in my opinion. In everygame I believe that the Dreadknight can cause massive damage if used correctly. All hordes dislike his heavy incinerator and most units cannot get through the 2+ armour save so if you can put him in the right positions (shunt move) it can dominate a game.
The allies role is to contest or claim opponents objectives. The versatility of null zone is great and the terminators are even better in this edition because of the changes to power weapons and 2d6 charge range.
Few questions: Can the Nemesis Dreadknight take psychic powers from the rulebook? (Cant find it in the faq)
Can I switch up my psychic powers each game? Can my lib use the codex powers in game 1 of the tournament, but in game 2 use the rulebook powers?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/10 03:22:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/10 05:34:07
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos
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Dreadknight cannot take rulebook powers (only Inquisitors and Librarians).
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Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it. Don't wait for it. Just let it happen. It could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot black coffee. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/10 11:38:48
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker
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The necron flyers are really annoying. Thank god they are not AV12. Making the deathrays jink is sometimes the only saving grace. Ive yet to fight more than a doomscythe at a time but I have faced a 4x stormraven BA army in a 2v2. That was kinda fun... not really. I think I fired snap shots the entire game. Literally...
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I need to return some video tapes.
Skulls for the Skull Throne |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/10 11:46:10
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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That list suffers from overspending; you have too much points put into upgrades you don't need. The Strike squads need a Hammer, 2 Psycannons, and Psybolts nothing else. The Inquisitors don't need the grenades because you have nothing worth using them with and also your list is better off shooting (as are Grey Knights in general).
Same deal with the Interceptors, however you are better off dropping them for a Storm Raven for AA and an additional Dreadnought so your one isn't isolated (you should have the points if you drop the upgrades above).
As for the allies, not sure what the point of them is, but Scouts with Camo Cloaks with be cheaper, more numerous, and better at holding down objectives than the Tac Squad you have now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/11 06:53:32
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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Godless-Mimicry wrote:That list suffers from overspending; you have too much points put into upgrades you don't need.
This may be so I will try to pay attention to that during my practice games to see if they play a role in games that I play.
Godless-Mimicry wrote:The Strike squads need a Hammer, 2 Psycannons, and Psybolts nothing else. The Inquisitors don't need the grenades because you have nothing worth using them with and also your list is better off shooting (as are Grey Knights in general).
My intention was to make the strike squads good in cc by adding the upgrades. Rad grenades (t 3), hammerhead (wounds on 2+) , combine with prescience (re - rolls to hit) should make them unexpectly good in cc. Also if I decided to use combat squads I can have a shooty 5 man squad with 2 psycannons and a cc unit with 2 halberds, 2 hammers, a stave and the inquisitor.
Godless-Mimicry wrote:Same deal with the Interceptors, however you are better off dropping them for a Storm Raven for AA and an additional Dreadnought so your one isn't isolated (you should have the points if you drop the upgrades above).
This suggestion will help with anti-air but I am not sure if I want to break up the synergy.
Godless-Mimicry wrote:As for the allies, not sure what the point of them is, but Scouts with Camo Cloaks with be cheaper, more numerous, and better at holding down objectives than the Tac Squad you have now.
I like assault terminators and I like re-rolling successful invulnerable saves both are still good in my opinion and worth allying for. Thanks for your suggestions I will definetly pay attention to my games to see if the areas you mention are weaknesses in my list.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/11 10:50:11
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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After messing with various strike squad loadouts I'm just not impressed enough with them even with buffs. They really have a hard time fighting their points equivilent CC units unless it's like a big tac squad of marines or something which really isn't a CC unit anyway. The low number attacks is what really hurts these guys and I'm not bothering for falchions.
Lack of swarm fighting, lack of attacks, and mostly just AP3 with one guy that's usually gonna be stuck in a challenge makes it a tough sell for me.
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/11 10:52:04
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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Strike squads should not be in combat. Period.
1 attack will not do much, as godlessm says, just psybolt and psycannon, hammer so they can take vehicles if they have to. You use them for the mass strength 5 stormbolter shooting, with the punch of psycannon.
If you want combat, take purifiers, cheaper halberds, 2 attacks and cleansing flame make them much better for cc.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/11 11:17:49
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Spot on. If you want combat (and you don't need it in 6th) you take a combat unit. Strikes are not that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/11 18:03:36
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Strike Squads really are no better in melee then Tactical marines. Force Weapons don't make you good in melee, especially since all the upgrades are insanely expensive.
A Strike Marine with a Halberd is 1 point less then a Purifier with a Halberd, and the Purifier is a million times better in melee. The Purifier unit can also take more special weapons.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/11 20:51:17
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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Grey Templar wrote:Strike Squads really are no better in melee then Tactical marines. Force Weapons don't make you good in melee, especially since all the upgrades are insanely expensive.
A Strike Marine with a Halberd is 1 point less then a Purifier with a Halberd, and the Purifier is a million times better in melee. The Purifier unit can also take more special weapons.
5 tac marines=4 strikes in cost
Math hammer v meq
Tac marines/strikes get the charge.
5 tac marines=10 attacks=5 hits=2.5 wwounds=0.833 wounds
4 strikes=8 attacks=4 hits=2.666 wounds with hammer hand=2.666 dead meq
Strikes are far superior to tac marines in cc when fighting meq which is the most common type of opponent. Add to that their storm bolters give them the option to charge after shooting.
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Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/11 20:53:05
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Being better than Tac Marines in combat still doesn't make them a good combat unit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/11 21:18:49
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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Correct, but it also means they are not bad in cc, they have assault weapons, and gk units that are good in cc can back them up. Automatically Appended Next Post: It takes 30 points of strikes to drop a meq while charging with hammerhand. That's also better than grey hunters at 60 points or fc ba assault marines at 54 points. While strikes are not a cc unit the fact is they are 266% more lethal in cc when they charge, and that can be used a gk players advantage or disadvantage.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/11 21:32:08
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
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