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Mordrak is not an IC, so or you give them ghosts, or he will go alone.

DakotaBlue wrote:
Mordrak is not an IC, so or you give them ghosts, or he will go alone.

While that is technically true, you can, however, attach another IC to Mordrak (like the Librarian).

But yeah, if you're going to run Mordrak, you should get some ghost knights for him.

If running Mordrak by himself, just get a regular Grand Master. He'll add more to the army.

CKO, Mordrak cannot join squads. He is not an independent character. He may only be joined by his Ghost Knights who form a unit with him (as part of his special rules).

EDIT: Missed the whole next page and all the ninja's therein...

Mordrak can't join squads.

I take it there's no flyers in your meta?

EDIT: Bloody hell, that was some ninja'ing.

Quick question, can Grand Strategy be used on allies or has that been FaQ'd?

I am a new Grey Knight player did not notice, I am glad alot of you caught on to that, but I made a better list.

HQ
Grand Master Psycannon, Blind Grenades, Psychotroke Grenades Force Sword

Xenos Inquisitor Psychotroke Grenades, Force Sword, BP psyker upgrade, power armour

Troops
10x Grey Knight Strike Squad 2xPsycannons, 2xHammers, 2xHalberds, 3xSwords, Justicator MC Warding Stave, Psybolt Ammunition

10x Grey Knight Strike Squad 2xPsycannons, 2xHammers, 2xHalberds, 3xSwords, Justicator MC Warding Stave, Psybolt Ammunition

Heavy Support
Nemesis DreadKnight Personal Teleporter, Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator

Nemesis DreadKnight Personal Teleporter, Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator

Allies
Necron Lord Warscythe Command Barge

5xWarriors, Storm Cryptek Night Scythe

5x Warriors, Storm Cryptek Night Scythe

The Grand Master gives me Grand Strategy aswell as psychic communion to get the flyers to come in on a 2+, he also has a psycannon. The inquisitor is for prescience. The strike squads performed excellent in shooting and with the grenades they win cc. I added another Nemesis DreadKnight that thing is amazing. I added necron allies for some anti-tank, the Command Barge is a unique threat that can do alot of things. The two night scythes provide more anti-tank the 5 warriors and the storm cryptek can take out tanks aswell and invasion beam makes them the most mobile scoring units in the game.

Decent list, but you can probably drop the halberds, hammers and warding staves on the strike squads. At best, upgrade the Justicar to a halberd or hammer, but the rest is too expensive. That'll free up some points for rad grenades on your characters, because at this point, why not?

Ok, Dunwich, the warding stave is no longer master crafted and I was able to give the inquisitor rad grenades.

HQ
Grand Master Psycannon, Psychotroke Grenades Force Sword

Xenos Inquisitor Psychotroke Grenades, Rad Grenades, Force Sword, BP psyker upgrade, power armour

Troops
10x Grey Knight Strike Squad 2xPsycannons, 2xHammers, 2xHalberds, 3xSwords, Justicator Warding Stave, Psybolt Ammunition

10x Grey Knight Strike Squad 2xPsycannons, 2xHammers, 2xHalberds, 3xSwords, Justicator Warding Stave, Psybolt Ammunition

Heavy Support
Nemesis DreadKnight Personal Teleporter, Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator

Nemesis DreadKnight Personal Teleporter, Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator

Allies
Necron Lord Warscythe Command Barge

5xWarriors, Storm Cryptek Night Scythe

5x Warriors, Storm Cryptek Night Scythe

I think you should stil thin that strike squad down a bit, something more like this

10 strikes, 2 psycannon, 1 hammer, justicar with halberd, psybolt ammo - 255 points

Compared to your squads at 300, you would save 90 points altogether.

With that you can give the necron lord mindshackle scarabs, upgrade the warriors to immortals, and should still have enough leftover to take a small henchman group or something.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Mordrak can't join squads.

I take it there's no flyers in your meta?

EDIT: Bloody hell, that was some ninja'ing.

Lol sorry, just couldn't help myself XD

Recap from Tournament

To reiterate, my list was (1500):
Draigo and 5 Paladins, 2 MC Psycannons

Coteaz and 10 Purifiers, 4 Psycannons, Psybolts

5 Strikes

2 Dreadknights, both with Incinerator and greatsword

I'll do my best to remember my enemy's force dispositions...

Game 1 v Necrons, Relic +custom rules

Stormlord with Immortals
2 squads of Warriors (10 each)
2 spiders that spawned scarabs
Annihilation Barge with big cannon
Chariot thing with guns
10 Deathmarks
6 Wraiths

Nightfighting, went 2nd. Lightning was annoying, but I didn't lose too much against it. Most of the fighting took place in the middle, since it was obviously Relic; the Dreadknight was massacring everything once it got into CC, including the Stormlord in 1 hit. She barely had anything left at the end of the game, I hadn't lost much at all; sinking a ton of shots into the Dreadknight may not have been the best idea. I never actually picked up the Relic, but had squads contesting it at the end, and won all of the secondary objectives.

Game 2 v Space Marines + IG, Crusade +custom rules

Tac squad w/ lascannon and melta in HB Razorback
Captain + Command squad/honor guard in Asscan Razorback
Tac squad in Droppod with melta
Whirlwind
4 Large squads of Guardsmen, 2 with Autocannons
Aegis defense line + Autocannon addon
Leman Russ, stock
CCS w/ Master of Ordnance

So this guy was the husband of the Necron player, gotta make sure the whole family doesn't like me! He split his force on the sides of the table, and put both of his objectives behind his Aegis defense line, covered in Guardsmen. There was a bit of LOS blocking terrain in the center, so I used that to my advantage for most of the game.

His droppod came down within 12" of Coteaz due to scatter, and was basically ripped apart by the fusillade from the Purifier squad. After minimal damage on his first turn, the Dreadknights marched forward and liquefied large chunks of guardsmen. Draigo and his Paladins fired their psycannons into the side of the Leman Russ, punching through its armor and causing an explodes result which also took out a few more guardsmen.

His whirlwind ineffectually bombarded my Purifiers while Draigo+Paladins and the Dreadknights moved up one side of the field, absorbing the majority of other fire. One of my DKs was taken out by 2 overwatched melta-guns on a charge into the command squad; the other shortly thereafter by more melta. However by the time both the Dreadknights were dead, nearly all of his guardsmen on the objectives had fallen and the Paladins were within striking distance. Draigo split off and melted a squad of guardsmen remaining, while his paladins multi-charged and forced off the rest; clearing his objectives whilst I held both of mine.

Game 3 v Eldar + GK Allies, Purge +custom rules

Eldrad (of course) + harlquins
another squad of harlequins
Dark reapers
Dire avengers
Rangers
Draigo + Terminators, no psycannons

I WAS going to go first, but somehow he managed to roll 6s twice to steal the initiative. My strikes were massacred by his Dark reapers from across the board, apparently allowed no cover saves of any sort by his exarch. He didn't have much other shooting.

I ran the Purifier squad out of LOS and put Coteaz at the lead so he could at least take shots from the Dark reapers, and started to push across the board with Draigo+Pals and Dreadknights. Draigo and co got a few psycannon shots off, felling a couple harlequins.

Turns out his shooting was totally ineffective against terminator armor, so he didn't manage anything. My purifiers and coteaz popped up over the top of a hill and shredded the Dark reapers, nullifying the threat of their AP3 weaponry in one salvo. The dreadknight, already having taken 2 wounds from DANGEROUS TERRAIN... charged into battle with Eldrads squad and was taken down after a round of combat.

Shadow Draigo (his Draigo was only Primered) and his terminators assaulted my Draigo and his Paladins, Shadow Draigo called out a challenge and it was answered by painted Draigo. The Paladins won without too much difficulty, although lost a couple of their number to a Daemonhammer. Draigo v Draigo went for the rest of the game, and painted Draigo somehow managed to kill Shadow Draigo on the 7th turn.

On the other side of the board, the Harlequins and Eldrad, fresh from their kill of the Dreadknight, kept moving towards the Purifiers. They answered with a fusillade from their Psycannons, felling several Harlequins and Eldrad...

but the die was cocked on his last save. It wasn't really cocked, I could easily tell it was a 2, and he had failed his fortuned 3+ invuln. But he insisted it was cocked, and after a judge couldn't make a call on if it was cocked or not because he'd already moved it when the judge arrived, we rolled off to see if he got to make a reroll. I lost the roll off, so he got to make another save for Eldrad... and of course made the save.

The last several turns of the game consisted of Eldrad and his harlequins running away from my Purifiers and surviving Dreadknight. In the end I was victorious, killing more of his units; but it was a very obnoxious game to say the least.

I won best general, but maybe next time I can get the gold for best overall.

Next tourney is 1600 points, so I am going to try out a few new compositions. Probably going back towards more Paladins and more Dreadknights. I'd really like to take 3 DKs and a ton of Paladins, but 1600pts isn't enough for that yet.

Nice tourney... I am new with GK and i can't help from losing all the time from a friend who plays competitive Eldar...

Cougar wrote:
Nice tourney... I am new with GK and i can't help from losing all the time from a friend who plays competitive Eldar...

Eldar does shut down quite alot of GK powers and is quite annoying to fight in many ways. I've found my storm raven to be really useful vs eldar now a days. They have alot of trouble with fliers still. Shunting teleport troops / DK's also do really well vs them. Flamers / incinerators are really nice vs all those cover save loving troops. Also rear armor shots are still deadly vs av 10 rear WS's

Just posted this list and my thoughts on it. I've been wanting to do GK with Necrons, but my money is limiting me to IG allies at the moment. Here's my shot at what I have.

HQ:
Coteaz 100 points

Troops:
10 Strikes, 2 Psycannon, Hammer, Psybolt Ammo, with a Psybolt Heavy Bolter Razorback 300 points
10 Strikes, 2 Psycannon, Hammer, Psybolt Ammo, with a Psybolt Heavy Bolter Razorback 300 points
10 Strikes, 2 Psycannon, Hammer, Psybolt Ammo, with a Psybolt Heavy Bolter Razorback 300 points
4 Acolytes with a Psybolt Heavy Bolter Razorback 66 points
4 Acolytes with a Psybolt Heavy Bolter Razorback 66 points
5 Acolytes with a Psybolt Heavy Bolter Razorback 70 points

Fast Attack:
Stormraven with Psybolt Ammo, Hurricane Bolters 255 points

IG Allies

HQ:
Lord Commissar with Power Axe 80 points

Troops:

Infantry Platoon:
Platoon Command Squad: 30 points
Infantry Squad with Power Axe 60 points
Infantry Squad with Power Axe 60 points
Infantry Squad with Power Axe 60 points
Infantry Squad with Power Axe 60 points
Infantry Squad with Power Axe 60 points

Fast Attack:
Vendetta 130 points


So here's the list idea. I move my Grey Knight Strike Squads up with the IG. Its a foot horde. The Lord Commisar is there for LD10 on the blob. If only Coteaz could attach to the blob. Anyways the Power Axes deter Marines or pretty much any other MEQ squad from charging my IG blob. The Vendetta is on Flyer duty as is the Stormraven with Psybolt Ammo. The Stormraven is also good at anti-psyker and infantry. The Razorbacks are meant to be used as walls. They are not to be used as transports for the army. I'll be blocking my army off and forcing my opponents to waste their shots on either the transports, or the IG blob. The acolytes are really easy to hide behind cover since at my LGS they use lots of LOS blocking terrain. They make great objective campers for me.

Any thoughts?

Reply here or on the Army List thread

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/482948.page

Holy Moley that list looks familiar! lol

-Drop the hurricane bolters and psybolt ammo on the stormraven
-Drop your acolytes to 3 mans, there's no functional difference between 3 and 4 or 5
-Get some searchlights (2-3)

Spend the rest of the points you saved as you see fit, hopefully on a second psyker HQ

Target wrote:
Holy Moley that list looks familiar! lol

-Drop the hurricane bolters and psybolt ammo on the stormraven
-Drop your acolytes to 3 mans, there's no functional difference between 3 and 4 or 5
-Get some searchlights (2-3)

Spend the rest of the points you saved as you see fit, hopefully on a second psyker HQ

Just curious, but why to everything you said? I think the only thing I understand is taking searchlights. I totally forgot about Night Fighting.

Looks like the the SW/guard that won NOVA, sort of.

After trying the hurricane bolter/psybolt ammo stormraven,, its strong, but just to expensive for my liking, and gk have anti-infantry covered anyway. I prefer just multi-melta and the lascannon, and just shoot down other flyers. So far I have taken out a few landraiders, 4 necron scythes (if you feel lucky and use machine spirit) and feel its more effective in this role. But YMMV.

As for allies. For me, whatever I use to allie with my gk, well most likely be my second army, for that reason, I choose Necrons over guard, as in all honestly, I don't want to make and assemble countless guardsman and tanks.

List looks good potential though

 Red Comet wrote:

Target wrote:
Holy Moley that list looks familiar! lol

-Drop the hurricane bolters and psybolt ammo on the stormraven
-Drop your acolytes to 3 mans, there's no functional difference between 3 and 4 or 5
-Get some searchlights (2-3)

Spend the rest of the points you saved as you see fit, hopefully on a second psyker HQ

Just curious, but why to everything you said? I think the only thing I understand is taking searchlights. I totally forgot about Night Fighting.

-Looks familiar -> it's almost a carbon copy of the list I used to win Battle for Salvation recently, which I think someone posted in this thread as well (I also played it at NOVA, but you get no love for going 7-1!)

-Hurricane bolters and psybolt ammo just aren't worth the 50 points in cost, your best use of the stormraven is the missiles and staying at range, as you aren't using them to deliver a combat unit, so there's no incentive to get inside of melta/plasma range to fire off those hurricane bolters, which in truth aren't a considerable amount of torrent in a list that already has plenty of it. A GK stormraven is best served using a MM/Lascannon (for free) which combat other fliers, and picking off psykers with it's missiles

-3 guardsmen with paper armor are no different then 4 or 5, neither are going to shoot and cause any noticeable damage, neither are going to win any real combat, so keep them cheap and reserve them frequently to just walk on and take your backfield objectives

Edit: the additional psyker -> like coteaz, he's a force multiplier, attaching in particular a psycannon termie armor psyker inquisitor (110 points) to a GKSS providing rerolls to your shooting/combat provides a lot of benefit

While I agree with most of that, I disagree on the Storm Raven advice. I like how he has it already.

You advise using it as a back field MM/Lascannon, but then the multimelta is out of range. I don't think Red Comet intends to enter hover mode, so plasmas and meltas will have a hard time hitting (also meltas get no melta bonus). If those shots are directed at the Raven instead of the rest of his army, it's a good thing, means more of the Razors will survive longer. It serves as both a lethal gunship and the ultimate distraction.

While I can see why you would want to keep it cheap if it was a transport (since it will almost certainly die once it unloads its cargo), the gunboat benefits from the extra guns. You force your opponent into two bad options: ignore it and focus your army or focus it and ignore your army. With a lascannon/MM, it becomes much more viable to just ignore it. It's an expensive upgrade and I can see where you're coming from, but this seems like the kind of list that would benefit from it.

 Dunwich wrote:
While I agree with most of that, I disagree on the Storm Raven advice. I like how he has it already.

You advise using it as a back field MM/Lascannon, but then the multimelta is out of range. I don't think Red Comet intends to enter hover mode, so plasmas and meltas will have a hard time hitting (also meltas get no melta bonus). If those shots are directed at the Raven instead of the rest of his army, it's a good thing, means more of the Razors will survive longer. It serves as both a lethal gunship and the ultimate distraction.

While I can see why you would want to keep it cheap if it was a transport (since it will almost certainly die once it unloads its cargo), the gunboat benefits from the extra guns. You force your opponent into two bad options: ignore it and focus your army or focus it and ignore your army. With a lascannon/MM, it becomes much more viable to just ignore it. It's an expensive upgrade and I can see where you're coming from, but this seems like the kind of list that would benefit from it.

The multimelta isnt out of range - it's targeting flyers, which are forced to move quickly and advance close, the hurricane bolters to get a decent number of shots need to be within 12 inches of infantry - where the anti tank guns are.

This kind of list is actually the opposite of what would benefit from that setup, what does he have to deal with flyers and other vehicles:

-6 Psycannons
-Str 6 heavy bolters

What does he have to deal with infantry:
-30 GKSS marines with psybolts, str 5 and str 7 shots, and tons of them, and the ability to twin link
-6 str 6 heavy bolters
-50 lasguns with frfsrf

My experience comes from: this is basically my list.

The Storm Raven is still very effective VS fliers as it is though. The extra guns give it more options once fliers are taken care of or in the case you aren't up against other fliers.

I can see the list is weaker to fliers than infantry, but swapping a TL psy-assault cannon for a TL Lascannon doesn't really change that. The points cost is an issue though, I guess Red Comet will see first hand whether the points are worth it or not when he uses the list. Getting another Divination psyker in the list would be really helpful, so I agree the points might be better spent.

Target wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:

Target wrote:
Holy Moley that list looks familiar! lol

-Drop the hurricane bolters and psybolt ammo on the stormraven
-Drop your acolytes to 3 mans, there's no functional difference between 3 and 4 or 5
-Get some searchlights (2-3)

Spend the rest of the points you saved as you see fit, hopefully on a second psyker HQ

Just curious, but why to everything you said? I think the only thing I understand is taking searchlights. I totally forgot about Night Fighting.

-Looks familiar -> it's almost a carbon copy of the list I used to win Battle for Salvation recently, which I think someone posted in this thread as well (I also played it at NOVA, but you get no love for going 7-1!)

-Hurricane bolters and psybolt ammo just aren't worth the 50 points in cost, your best use of the stormraven is the missiles and staying at range, as you aren't using them to deliver a combat unit, so there's no incentive to get inside of melta/plasma range to fire off those hurricane bolters, which in truth aren't a considerable amount of torrent in a list that already has plenty of it. A GK stormraven is best served using a MM/Lascannon (for free) which combat other fliers, and picking off psykers with it's missiles

Completely wrong.

Remember that Flyers can shoot 4 weapons a turn, the stormraven can shoot 5 with PotMS.

Range is a non-issue with flyers. They will almost always be within 12-24" of the enemy due to their mandatory movement.


The best setup for GKs is Assault Cannon, Multi-melta, hurricane bolters, and psybolts.

Its very east to shoot the hurrican bolters and psycannon into an infantry target and PotMS the MM into a tank.

Alternativly, you shoot the psycannon and MM into a tank to ensure its doom. You can either PotMS one of the hurricane bolters into another target, or they can be very useful against rear armor.

Target wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:

Target wrote:
Holy Moley that list looks familiar! lol

-Drop the hurricane bolters and psybolt ammo on the stormraven
-Drop your acolytes to 3 mans, there's no functional difference between 3 and 4 or 5
-Get some searchlights (2-3)

Spend the rest of the points you saved as you see fit, hopefully on a second psyker HQ

Just curious, but why to everything you said? I think the only thing I understand is taking searchlights. I totally forgot about Night Fighting.

-Looks familiar -> it's almost a carbon copy of the list I used to win Battle for Salvation recently, which I think someone posted in this thread as well (I also played it at NOVA, but you get no love for going 7-1!)

-Hurricane bolters and psybolt ammo just aren't worth the 50 points in cost, your best use of the stormraven is the missiles and staying at range, as you aren't using them to deliver a combat unit, so there's no incentive to get inside of melta/plasma range to fire off those hurricane bolters, which in truth aren't a considerable amount of torrent in a list that already has plenty of it. A GK stormraven is best served using a MM/Lascannon (for free) which combat other fliers, and picking off psykers with it's missiles

-3 guardsmen with paper armor are no different then 4 or 5, neither are going to shoot and cause any noticeable damage, neither are going to win any real combat, so keep them cheap and reserve them frequently to just walk on and take your backfield objectives

Edit: the additional psyker -> like coteaz, he's a force multiplier, attaching in particular a psycannon termie armor psyker inquisitor (110 points) to a GKSS providing rerolls to your shooting/combat provides a lot of benefit

I'm not going to lie. The use of the Razorbacks was a straight copy and paste from your list because it was exactly what I was looking for. I had already been throwing around the idea of 50 IG guys with a Commisar for a while as well as using Rhinos, but I felt Rhinos weren't doing much besides just moving my guys up. Not to mention that it leaves the IG guys too far behind from the original blob of 40 guys I wanted to have. Razorbacks solved the issue I was having with Rhinos. Congratulations on the win!

Interesting suggestion with the Stormraven. I'll definitely try it out since I already have a lot of anti-infantry in the list.

That's true about the acolytes. I was just going to use them as backfield objective holders while my GK and IG midfield. I just threw the extra acolytes in because I had 20 spare points.

I could probably fit the Terminator Inquisitor in if I drop a squad of Acolytes and the Hurricane Bolter + Psybolt combo. Thank you for all the responses. These were actually really helpful, and you among others actually bother to explain yourselves on this thread.

tuiman wrote:
Quick question, can Grand Strategy be used on allies or has that been FaQ'd?

It doesn't need to be as only Battle Brothers can ever benefit from any powers or abilities of their allies, and we have no Battle Brothers.

@daedalus; not trying to take away from your win, but seeing those lists I am not surprised that you won, as yours is miles better than any of them. That's not to say there wasn't excellent players behind them, but on paper I would have bet on you from the get-go.

@ Red Comet; I like the list, though I'd suggest the Storm Raven changes already suggested; more guns is fine and dandy except most of them can't hurt AV12, and the ones that can are relying on good rolling to hurt it, making the dog fight game much tougher. The MM is very easy to get into range and in general flyers aren't about hanging back and shooting, since they don't really have the option most of the time. I'd also give all of those infantry squad a Meltagun each; I've seen this done at the last tournament I was at and it worked very well. I don't think the Power Axes are going to deter much either as they are still only S4. Might as well take a fist.

I also think melta guns are probably better. the first rank fire and second rank fire with that many guardsmen will blow up just about everything as is. Probably not needing that much power weapons and I see that you are a tad light for anti- AP2 or heavy armor for a 2k list.

The lord commisar should be fine enough to replace "get back in the fight" and you don't have enough heavy weapons in the IG blobs to use bring it down anyway. Overall good list =D

Just be careful of sniper fire or other precision shots killing the lord commisar. I've had him taken out by some ratlings in one round of shooting before. (and yes, I somehow failed 3 LoS rolls in one round, I suck >.<
Back when paladins with psycannons were characters, they'd used to instant death alot of T3 guys but at least that's out now. I think only necrons really have alot of that left or maybe eldar with their long range shooting. Surprisingly enough, ork loota shooting with their mek's can actually dump some easy high number of precision shots. I'm guessing Tau can probably do it too with their sergants and team leaders but I haven't fought that many of them. Only I play tau around my area XD

 Red Comet wrote:

Target wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:

Target wrote:
Holy Moley that list looks familiar! lol

-Drop the hurricane bolters and psybolt ammo on the stormraven
-Drop your acolytes to 3 mans, there's no functional difference between 3 and 4 or 5
-Get some searchlights (2-3)

Spend the rest of the points you saved as you see fit, hopefully on a second psyker HQ

Just curious, but why to everything you said? I think the only thing I understand is taking searchlights. I totally forgot about Night Fighting.

-Looks familiar -> it's almost a carbon copy of the list I used to win Battle for Salvation recently, which I think someone posted in this thread as well (I also played it at NOVA, but you get no love for going 7-1!)

-Hurricane bolters and psybolt ammo just aren't worth the 50 points in cost, your best use of the stormraven is the missiles and staying at range, as you aren't using them to deliver a combat unit, so there's no incentive to get inside of melta/plasma range to fire off those hurricane bolters, which in truth aren't a considerable amount of torrent in a list that already has plenty of it. A GK stormraven is best served using a MM/Lascannon (for free) which combat other fliers, and picking off psykers with it's missiles

-3 guardsmen with paper armor are no different then 4 or 5, neither are going to shoot and cause any noticeable damage, neither are going to win any real combat, so keep them cheap and reserve them frequently to just walk on and take your backfield objectives

Edit: the additional psyker -> like coteaz, he's a force multiplier, attaching in particular a psycannon termie armor psyker inquisitor (110 points) to a GKSS providing rerolls to your shooting/combat provides a lot of benefit

I'm not going to lie. The use of the Razorbacks was a straight copy and paste from your list because it was exactly what I was looking for. I had already been throwing around the idea of 50 IG guys with a Commisar for a while as well as using Rhinos, but I felt Rhinos weren't doing much besides just moving my guys up. Not to mention that it leaves the IG guys too far behind from the original blob of 40 guys I wanted to have. Razorbacks solved the issue I was having with Rhinos. Congratulations on the win!

Interesting suggestion with the Stormraven. I'll definitely try it out since I already have a lot of anti-infantry in the list.

That's true about the acolytes. I was just going to use them as backfield objective holders while my GK and IG midfield. I just threw the extra acolytes in because I had 20 spare points.

I could probably fit the Terminator Inquisitor in if I drop a squad of Acolytes and the Hurricane Bolter + Psybolt combo. Thank you for all the responses. These were actually really helpful, and you among others actually bother to explain yourselves on this thread.

Glad to help a bit, the razorbacks have been pretty key if you aren't in a KP heavy environment, which some still are as pseudo 5th edition holdouts. They really aid in increasing your effective range, and in a mirror versus say, a foot heavy strike list, they are all the difference as you can pick off targets before he gets in range.

I personally decided against using my stormravens (which I used 2 of in 5th) just because I used them in 5th primarily for their role as an assault delivery system, and was soured to them as such in 6th. Curious to see you trying it, might actually make me take a second look at them as being able to nuke psykers is quite useful. The one thing I'll say is in my list, I basically ignore fliers almost entirely. In my last 20 GT games (13 at NOVA, 6 at BFS) I've run up against a total of about 30 fliers, the majority of those necrons, but about ~5 being vendettas/stormravens. I've killed a total of 4 fliers of those 30, and not lost any of the games involving the fliers. The truth is in most environments and in general, fliers just aren't THAT impactful on the game. They take points away from what can score/deny table quarters or objectives, have awkward movements, and only really put themselves in the game for 2-3 turns usually. Mind you, ones with hover are much more useful (which both of yours have).

Just my.02, fliers have been doing fairly well, but I've just not been impressed with them. That being said, when/if I run guard primary, i will be running 3 solo vendettas, as they're just too darn good for the price not to.

I see the whole thing about flyers' movement coming up a lot, and several months in it still hasn't come up for me, both for and against. Some basic movement skill and adapt tactics allow your flyers to do something every turn of the game; it's al about planning ahead. Even with a crowded sky it has been the case. Last game of my last tournament, there was 6 flyers in the sky, and they were able to shoot at something every turn. I think a lot of the underwhelming opinions is just people expecting too much out of them; surely if someone expects the move on and win the game reaction that was supposed before 6th edition's release they will be disappointed. Not that this applies in all situations, but I just think a lot of reaction these days is based on people not using their flyers right.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I see the whole thing about flyers' movement coming up a lot, and several months in it still hasn't come up for me, both for and against. Some basic movement skill and adapt tactics allow your flyers to do something every turn of the game; it's al about planning ahead. Even with a crowded sky it has been the case. Last game of my last tournament, there was 6 flyers in the sky, and they were able to shoot at something every turn. I think a lot of the underwhelming opinions is just people expecting too much out of them; surely if someone expects the move on and win the game reaction that was supposed before 6th edition's release they will be disappointed. Not that this applies in all situations, but I just think a lot of reaction these days is based on people not using their flyers right.

There is definitely some truth to what you said - the fact that fliers were/are a bit overhyped/expected to do too much, and so it's easy to be disappointed. But I think the bigger issue is that, while you're right with proper planning you can "shoot at something every turn of the game" (minus t1! ), you can't usually shoot at what you want/need to in later turns. Having a target is great, but if you specifically need to bring all guns to bear on one key situation, you may not be able to, which is where I've been fliers fall short.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:


@daedalus; not trying to take away from your win, but seeing those lists I am not surprised that you won, as yours is miles better than any of them. That's not to say there wasn't excellent players behind them, but on paper I would have bet on you from the get-go.

I can only hope if I keep winning, the local meta will get better