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Low AV Mech Spam is all but dead. There is a very simple reason for this: Necrons. Scarabs and Wraiths both chew through light AV so easily it is absurd. Flyers are essentially RazorSpam but better in every possible way. They will essentially be guaranteed the alpha strike. 1 Tesla destructor by itself is nearly enough to take out a Razor/Rhino. When 6 show up in a turn and Death Rays go off, razors drop like flies. This army isn't uncommon. For that reason alone I don't think its worth it to spam AV11. A few here and there is alright but I wouldnt take a list that solely packed 5x marines + razorback/rhino. Target has the right idea by supplementing with a Blob.

LValx wrote:
Low AV Mech Spam is all but dead. There is a very simple reason for this: Necrons. Scarabs and Wraiths both chew through light AV so easily it is absurd. Flyers are essentially RazorSpam but better in every possible way. They will essentially be guaranteed the alpha strike. 1 Tesla destructor by itself is nearly enough to take out a Razor/Rhino. When 6 show up in a turn and Death Rays go off, razors drop like flies. This army isn't uncommon. For that reason alone I don't think its worth it to spam AV11. A few here and there is alright but I wouldnt take a list that solely packed 5x marines + razorback/rhino. Target has the right idea by supplementing with a Blob.

I did like his list a lot, even if I wouldn't use it myself.

Let me just add my own observation to this, from my battle report.

 jy2 wrote:
Flyers have definitely changed the game currently. They are really good units and the chances are high that you need to deal with them in competitive play. Now when building your list (for competitive play), you need to consider how you are going to deal with flyers. I think there are effectively 2 ways of dealing them without resorting to tailoring your lists specifically to fight them. Because if you tailor your list, then you will be at a disadvantage against the other competitive armies that you may well see at tournaments. Basically, my perspective of flyers is how would a Take-All-Comer's (TAC) army deal with them?

1. Bring a lot of shooting with you. Fight fire with fire. However, certain armies (daemons, tyranids, orks, certain MEQ builds, etc.) will not be able to do this.

2. For those armies who just don't have the firepower to deal with flyers, then you need resiliency of units. Bring lots of bodies or lots of resilient tanks/units. These type of armies should be able to absorb the firepower of flyer armies while trying to kill off their ground forces. Basically, due to the lack of firepower, you are almost forced to ignore the flyers for the most part and hope that your list can outlast their offense. That doesn't mean that you won't have the tools to take down flyers, but it just means you won't be able to take them down efficiently. So just focus on killing everything else on the ground.

The best lists IMO will combine both #1 and #2 - good firepower with a resilient ground-base unit. In this regard, that is why we are starting to see more and more IG blob squads as allies in competitive play. They are the resilient unit to help anchor down shooty armies.

You guys are in for a treat.


In my newest battle report, I am testing out a fully meched-GK list. It's not really MSU, but I am trying to combination of mech + massed bodies. Report should probably be done by Thurs or Friday.


2.5K Epidemius Nurgle Marines vs Mechanized Grey Knights

Are you playing with yourself again Jim? Lol

how is playing against yourself a treat for anyone? its dull. Please do more 2k games and play against some real opponents.

Sometimes, it's not easy to find the right opponent with the right list. Or for that matter, sometimes I can't even find an opponent when I go to my LGS. Anyways, if anything this game saves me some time. Otherwise, I'd have to play 2 actual games. But I do it primarily because I have a curiousity that needs to be scratched and no one else can do that for me.

So I figured I could drop this list by you guys.

I got a local 1850 one day tourney coming up, and I was trying to find a way to combine the guards blob and a quasi Paladin star, and this is what I came up with.

Coteaz

10 Strikes w/2 psycannons, hammer, psybolt
10 Strikes w/2 psycannons, hammer, psybolt
10 Strikes w/2 psycannons, hammer, psybolt

10 Paladins w/4 Psycannons, Psybolt

Commissar w/Power Axe

Platoon Command

40 Man Blob Squad w/4 Power Axes

I think I have a couple points left over, but overall, how does this look? Basic idea is to probably combat squad the Pallies and probably deep strike them to put pressure on my opponents back field or hunt down troublesome things like Russes or Manticores. Coteaz hangs out with the Strikes to help increase their effectiveness and what have you.

Basically, it's this or Target's list. Whichever!

I'm not seeing what the IG allies are bringing to the table besides bodies. Maybe give them some Meltaguns.

Them being a difficult rock to budge is enough of a reason to bring them in my mind. Whatever objective they want they probably have.

Dorksim wrote:
So I figured I could drop this list by you guys.

I got a local 1850 one day tourney coming up, and I was trying to find a way to combine the guards blob and a quasi Paladin star, and this is what I came up with.

Coteaz

10 Strikes w/2 psycannons, hammer, psybolt
10 Strikes w/2 psycannons, hammer, psybolt
10 Strikes w/2 psycannons, hammer, psybolt

10 Paladins w/4 Psycannons, Psybolt

Commissar w/Power Axe

Platoon Command

40 Man Blob Squad w/4 Power Axes

I think I have a couple points left over, but overall, how does this look? Basic idea is to probably combat squad the Pallies and probably deep strike them to put pressure on my opponents back field or hunt down troublesome things like Russes or Manticores. Coteaz hangs out with the Strikes to help increase their effectiveness and what have you.

Basically, it's this or Target's list. Whichever!

It's not bad. Though the problem with it is that those paladins aren't scoring. That just makes it that much easier for your opponents to ignore - a slow super-expensive unit that isn't scoring. They are actually a "distraction unit" in this army so I wouldn't invest that many points into them. Also, give your guardsmen a little tank-hunting capability with meltaguns. That'll make them actually scary and dangerous to mech armies rather than a unit that can be ignored.

Here's my recommendation:


Coteaz

10 Strikes w/2 psycannons, hammer, psybolt
10 Strikes w/2 psycannons, hammer, psybolt
10 Strikes w/2 psycannons, hammer, psybolt
5 Warrior Henchmen w/3 plasmas
5 Warrior Henchmen w/3 plasmas
5 Warrior Henchmen w/3 meltas
7 Paladins w/2 Psycannons, Psybolt

Commissar w/Power Axe

Platoon Command

40 Man Blob Squad w/4 Power Axes & 4 Meltas


You should still have 15-pts leftover.

Only problem I see with that list is that it is very one dimensional; if the opponent can deal with one unit it can deal with any of the others. Purifiers instead of Paladins for instance would make it better as they keep the 4 Psycannons but add some much needed anti-horde. This is another reason that Dreadknights are so popular, because they take something completely different to deal with than Strikes for example.

I decided to scrap that previous idea. Just because I felt like I just had to few units. I dunno, I feel more comfortable when I have more units to play with I guess.

Either way, came up with something else. Took some ideas from suggestions and came up with this!

Coteaz

10 Strikes w/2 Psycannon, Hammer Psybolt

10 Strikes w/2 Psycannon, Hammer Psybolt

10 Strikes w/2 Psycannon, Hammer Psybolt

3 Acolytes w/ Psyback

3 Acolytes w/ Psyback

3 Acolytes w/ Psyback

10 Purifiers w/4 Psycannons, Psybolt, 2 Hammers, 4 Halbreds

Commissar w/Power Axe

Platoon Command

50 Man Blob w/5 Melta Bombs and Power Axe

Aegis Defence Line

Points: 1842

This leaves me with 8 points with not a whole lot to do, maybe I will scrap together a Mortar and try to snipe some special weapons or something. Either way I am not sure how I feel about this list, but I guess a foot based list with a Defence line seems like a good idea. And this is all based on the fact that I can find an Aegis Defence line in time for this weekend.

Also, I don't want to feel like I am ignoring you jy2, but at the point I don't have any guardsmen models built with special weapons nor do I have the bits to do it by the weekend. So unfortunatly I have to avoid that. Trust me, I would love the melta, but c'est la vie.

Does this list look better? I feel like there is a lot more output.

I really should stop flooding the thread with army lists.

That list is great. You dont need meltaguns in the blob. I would however take ~20 Krak Grenades over those meltabombs. Statistically it'll do more damage to vehicle lines and cost less. You should be able to do quite a bit of damage with that list if played correctly. It is basically Gonyo's list, he placed high at NOVA and won BFS with something very similar. I've also been testing out something in a similar vein and it is almost TOO good. You won't make any friends, that is damn sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, I'd argue that 20 Krak grenades is infinitely more scary to any mech line than 4 Meltaguns.

I don't know where I would find the 20 points to get krak grenades. And as sad as it may seem, the idea of coming up with some plan as to who has grenades and who doesn't sounds horrible

drop the meltabombs.

My reasoning for the meltabombs is that they are going to have the hardest time dealing with a Land Raider that drives up in their face.

It's the lesser of two evils and I figure I have enough str 4 attacks that I can at least damage something with rear AV 10 and not have to worry about kraking it to death. Meltabombs at least keep Land Raiders honest.

Dorksim wrote:

Also, I don't want to feel like I am ignoring you jy2, but at the point I don't have any guardsmen models built with special weapons nor do I have the bits to do it by the weekend. So unfortunatly I have to avoid that. Trust me, I would love the melta, but c'est la vie.

No worries. Just a suggestion, but only if you like it and have the models for it.

Dorksim wrote:
I decided to scrap that previous idea. Just because I felt like I just had to few units. I dunno, I feel more comfortable when I have more units to play with I guess.

Either way, came up with something else. Took some ideas from suggestions and came up with this!

Coteaz

10 Strikes w/2 Psycannon, Hammer Psybolt

10 Strikes w/2 Psycannon, Hammer Psybolt

10 Strikes w/2 Psycannon, Hammer Psybolt

3 Acolytes w/ Psyback

3 Acolytes w/ Psyback

3 Acolytes w/ Psyback

10 Purifiers w/4 Psycannons, Psybolt, 2 Hammers, 4 Halbreds

Commissar w/Power Axe

Platoon Command

50 Man Blob w/5 Melta Bombs and Power Axe

Aegis Defence Line

Points: 1842

Do you have a quad-gun? Is so, then you might as well add it to your army. You're a little light on AA and I have a feeling you are going to see a lot of those baleflamer heldrakes.

Also, be careful that you don't overload your purifiers (like they are right now). It's a very expensive unit that will just get torrent off as easily as any of your strikers. I'd drop psybolt and the hammers. Keep the psycannons and the halberds. In their current configuration, I guarantee that they are going to be the first unit to get shot off the board.

Well this list may be a moot point as my shoddy little game store doesn't seem to ever carry an Aegis, which makes me sad. So my plan is to potentially scratchbuild one between now and Saturday.

And as far as I know, not many people are running around with Baledrakes or any amount of fliers in my part of the world. At least there were not a month or two a go last time I went to a tournament in this town, so I don't expect a huge influx of them. Either way, as I have no real other way of implementing AA I don't have much of a choice.

I dropped the psybolt and hammers from my Purifiers and used the points to buy 5 flamers for the Guardsmen. Leaving me with 4 points to do as I wish I spose. Decent compromise?

And you can't special order one?

I could, but not in time to arrive by Saturday for a tournament.

Dorksim wrote:And as far as I know, not many people are running around with Baledrakes or any amount of fliers in my part of the world. At least there were not a month or two a go last time I went to a tournament in this town, so I don't expect a huge influx of them. Either way, as I have no real other way of implementing AA I don't have much of a choice.

That would be because Heldrakes didn't exist 2mths ago.

Month ago rather.

Either way, our meta hasn't shifted to fliers as hard as most placed have. So I am making a educated guess that they won't be there.

Back from another tournament, managing another 5th place. No problems with the list, winning 4 games of 5, just a few others (mostly Necron players) got some bigger wins. I'm definitely liking the foot approach a hell of a lot more than meched up. It puts out a lot more hurt on the enemy and I'm no longer giving up First Blood so much. I did miss having a second Storm Raven though, so I'm going to try some other approaches for the next tournament which isn't until the end of January. Thinking of trying out some allies next, dropping 1 Dreadknight and a Strike Squad for a Guard blob and a Vendetta. Otherwise I may just drop a Dreadknight and revert to using Coteaz to take the second Raven while still holding onto the extra unit of Strikes.

I know I promised reports for the last tournament, but with preparation for this, as well as real life I didn't get them done, and with another event down it's unlikely I will.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Back from another tournament, managing another 5th place. No problems with the list, winning 4 games of 5, just a few others (mostly Necron players) got some bigger wins. I'm definitely liking the foot approach a hell of a lot more than meched up. It puts out a lot more hurt on the enemy and I'm no longer giving up First Blood so much. I did miss having a second Storm Raven though, so I'm going to try some other approaches for the next tournament which isn't until the end of January. Thinking of trying out some allies next, dropping 1 Dreadknight and a Strike Squad for a Guard blob and a Vendetta. Otherwise I may just drop a Dreadknight and revert to using Coteaz to take the second Raven while still holding onto the extra unit of Strikes.

I know I promised reports for the last tournament, but with preparation for this, as well as real life I didn't get them done, and with another event down it's unlikely I will.

Have any problems with Heldrakes ruining your day? I've stopped building my foot GK once I saw what it did to some marines in the last couple of games I played.

 Red Comet wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Back from another tournament, managing another 5th place. No problems with the list, winning 4 games of 5, just a few others (mostly Necron players) got some bigger wins. I'm definitely liking the foot approach a hell of a lot more than meched up. It puts out a lot more hurt on the enemy and I'm no longer giving up First Blood so much. I did miss having a second Storm Raven though, so I'm going to try some other approaches for the next tournament which isn't until the end of January. Thinking of trying out some allies next, dropping 1 Dreadknight and a Strike Squad for a Guard blob and a Vendetta. Otherwise I may just drop a Dreadknight and revert to using Coteaz to take the second Raven while still holding onto the extra unit of Strikes.

I know I promised reports for the last tournament, but with preparation for this, as well as real life I didn't get them done, and with another event down it's unlikely I will.

Have any problems with Heldrakes ruining your day? I've stopped building my foot GK once I saw what it did to some marines in the last couple of games I played.

Never played any. There was only one Chaos player there, and he was playing Khorne so his army didn't do too well, but his two Heldrakes did consistently perform.

My one loss was to Space Wolves with Imperial Guard allies, but a lot of it was to do with the terrain on the particular table being set up terribly so that it favoured one side drastically over the other (that and Master of Ruins plus Scatterfields mean Guardsmen have a 2+ cover save).

Well I guess I might as well follow up from my weekend tournament that guys helped me decide on a list for. Again , thanks for all the nhelp concerning that!

It was a 16 player 3 tournament in which I managed to take 3rd in. Game one was against a fairly unorganized Dark Eldar army which was won handily. Game two against an ok horde type army where I fell in love with the amount of str 5 firepower that a strike based army can produce. However my big loss of the day came against a Salamander pod list running 10assault terminators in a Storm Eagle.

This was tough. I managed to get first turn and set up a healthy warp quake bubble allowing him about a 6 inch gap on my left flank to drop a pod in to to see if he would bite. He did, dropped two pods down and stuck both of the landings which was rather unfortunate. This saw a Vulcan, termite librarian and about 15 marines starting to roll up my flank. In response I backed everything away and unfortunately completely forgot (or didn't really understand the capabilities of) the storm eagle and pushed all my guardsmen 18" away from all of his marines but 24" away so that I could get off some fire on them. Long story short, his Storm Eagle came on and managed to polish off 30 guardsmen in one round of shooting.

Beyond that things were looking decent, however the lost durability of my list from taking that many models off the table proved to be my downfall. Ah well, win some, ya lose some. At least this still gives me the right to still complain about forge world being legal in my community.

So this leaves me with some decisions to make about my list going forward. To I try to introduce more guard into my grey knights in the form of my manticore and vendetta? Or do I bring a storm raven to try and fire flier with flier. 6th edition still has me very confused in terms of list building so I am unsure where to really go from here.

Congrats to both Godless and Dorksim.

While my foot-knights have been doing ok, my mech-knights aren't doing so hot in this edition. Don't worry, I'll get it working in due time but for now, I'm mainly playing Chaos and bugs.

jy2 wrote:I'm mainly playing Chaos and bugs.

Ah bugs, I forgot until yesterday how much I like killing them

Is Tau a viable ally for Grey Knights? I have been contemplating tossing in some Tau (mainly battle suits) to try and give my GKs some range to reach out and touch some peeps. Mainly a GK foot based list with some Crisis Suits sporting Twin Linked Missile pods and some Broadsides.

Has anyone really played with this idea? Does it work?