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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 17:34:28
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Luide wrote: Godless-Mimicry wrote:Luide wrote: In this case, it isn't. All 7 units only consisted of models which are always allowed to Deep Strike, ie. terminators. He could also DS those DK too if he wished, they have same special rule as terminator armour does.
TDA does not override the rules for reserves,
Yes it does. You should the rules again.Here is the relevant part: They may always start the game in reserve and arrive using the Deep Strike rules . It explicitly goes on and tells you that models in Terminator armour may always start in reserves, so why you keep claiming it doesn't say that? Anyway, this is not right thread to argue it, we can move it to YMDC if you have any actual rules that support your viewpoint, while keeping in mind that specific > general / Codex > BRB.
Except that Codex only trumps BRB when there's a contradiction, which there isn't; 'may' does not equal 'must'. It is a choice that follows a set of criteria, not a obligation that stamps on the criteria.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 20:08:12
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Dakka Veteran
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Godless-Mimicry wrote:Luide wrote: Yes it does. You should the rules again.Here is the relevant part: They may always start the game in reserve and arrive using the Deep Strike rules . It explicitly goes on and tells you that models in Terminator armour may always start in reserves, so why you keep claiming it doesn't say that? Anyway, this is not right thread to argue it, we can move it to YMDC if you have any actual rules that support your viewpoint, while keeping in mind that specific > general / Codex > BRB.
Except that Codex only trumps BRB when there's a contradiction, which there isn't; 'may' does not equal 'must'. It is a choice that follows a set of criteria, not a obligation that stamps on the criteria.
First: Do read rules for reserves again, because if the Terminator armour read 'must' instead of 'may', there would be no contradiction with BRB rules at all: page 124 states that Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so.
So while 'may' does not equal 'must', it is irrelevant as far your argument is concerned, especially as the rule says 'may always', not merely 'may' which you keep claiming.
Second: 'may' and 'may always' are two, completely different things. If the rules read only 'may', you'd have point, but because they don't, neither do you. 'May always' is blanket permission.
Third: The contradiction should be obvious:
1) BRB has rule which states only 50% of units are allowed to be placed in reserves. (Certain exceptions and counting rules apply).
2) Codex has a rule which states that terminators are always allowed to be placed in reserves.
So any BRB rule that says I'm not allowed to place 100% of my terminators in reserve breaks the 'may always be placed in reserve' clause of the Codex and vice versa. As normal, Codex takes precedence, which means I can place 100% of my terminators in reserve.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/18 20:09:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 22:06:07
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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'May always' still isn't 'must'. 'May always' means you always have a choice (not every mission available for the game allows Reserves and/or Deep Strike). There's no argument needed after that; they simply are not the same thing, and that's a fact. And as you've so kindly pointed out above, only units that 'must' start in reserves don't count for the 50%.
While all that is in the air, I have a problem with the impression of hostility from your post. While well laid out, your whole post is overshadowed by your need to try and tell me my opinion doesn't count and that I mustn't be reading the rules because my interpretation doesn't agree with yours. Not everyone agrees oneverything mate, and not every situation is clear cut because you say so.
Given that this is a course of action only sought usually when people have no better argument to make, and given that you actually have made a good and valid argument, it's fair to conclude that you really didn't need to add all that to your post and as such I feel it is not worth discussing this with you anymore, as I feel it is in bad taste.
So good luck with your Terminators.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 22:37:44
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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while I appreciate the bump in post counts, let's move the terminators may vs must argument over to YMDC.
I'll go start a poll and while highly unscientific at least that way it'll give a general idea of popular opinion and is in no ways binding.
Go vote it out here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/495403.page
Hopefully we can settle this before the world ends on Friday according to the Mayans. If not, I'll consider option C as the correct ruling but then necrons would rule the world or nids have eaten us all or gangum style would have somehow erased all computers in some sort of y2k apocalypse. See ya all on friday folks!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/18 22:49:03
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/21 11:49:10
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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We've finally got enough folks lately around here to do a small tournament at 1000 points and I want to go GK but unsure of what to bring since I've almost got too many options and really don't play at this points level much. What do you guys think would work well? You name it and I probably have the options to make it wisiwig so go nuts. I'll let you guys decide what I bring. Good/ bad/ op/ or broken, I'll take w/e you all want. (don't really care all that much if I win or lose since I'm giving the prizes and really don't care to win my own stuff back lol. Probably will just give it to runner up even if I do win.)
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/21 12:59:56
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker
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sudojoe wrote:We've finally got enough folks lately around here to do a small tournament at 1000 points and I want to go GK but unsure of what to bring since I've almost got too many options and really don't play at this points level much. What do you guys think would work well? You name it and I probably have the options to make it wisiwig so go nuts. I'll let you guys decide what I bring. Good/ bad/ op/ or broken, I'll take w/e you all want. (don't really care all that much if I win or lose since I'm giving the prizes and really don't care to win my own stuff back lol. Probably will just give it to runner up even if I do win.)
I think at 1k grey knights are almost pigeon-holed into HQ + how much power armor with psycannons can I bring?
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I need to return some video tapes.
Skulls for the Skull Throne |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/21 15:00:26
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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I'm thinking that a helldrake will make life pretty miserable for all PA GK's but that's just me....
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/21 15:12:17
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Kid_Kyoto
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sudojoe wrote:I'm thinking that a helldrake will make life pretty miserable for all PA GK's but that's just me....
Well, it has 'throw' to it, much like the hellhound or the heavy incinerator, but it still has to follow the same rules right? So no hitting across multiple squads unless you're getting every model in the targeted squad, and so on. As much as I hate them, maybe that makes a compelling argument for combat squadding.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/21 17:01:53
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker
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Quad gun and focus psycannon fire will take care of a single heldrake. Yeah you're going to lose some guys its the nature of the beast. Use donut formation for your squads and make sure psycannons are not going to take the flame wounds to the face.
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I need to return some video tapes.
Skulls for the Skull Throne |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/21 23:07:57
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Also thinking in the shower last night if I place a TDA inquisitor or a 2+ armor techmarine in front, can't he tank the whole breath on himself since you roll closest model first eventhough none of the other guys would get a save you could potentially save it all on the 2+ guy?
It's kind of what I used to do with crusaders but I tend not to use them that much lately, maybe I should reconsider it again.
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 06:06:22
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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Just played against the new chaos today @1500 and tabled him on turn 5, was kill points mission.
He had one hell drake with bale flamer but did not come in to turn 4, killed about 15 points of henchman (all my strikes were in combat finishing of the enemy) before getting blown up by the raven.
Once again my dreadnought shined, killing his lord on bike, 7 bikers, 20 cultists and 4 havocs while only losing 2 wounds. I keep saying I will get another one soon ha.
Maybe take 2 for your 1000 point list sudojoe?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 13:00:16
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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tuiman wrote:Just played against the new chaos today @1500 and tabled him on turn 5, was kill points mission.
He had one hell drake with bale flamer but did not come in to turn 4, killed about 15 points of henchman (all my strikes were in combat finishing of the enemy) before getting blown up by the raven.
Once again my dreadnought shined, killing his lord on bike, 7 bikers, 20 cultists and 4 havocs while only losing 2 wounds. I keep saying I will get another one soon ha.
Maybe take 2 for your 1000 point list sudojoe?
You mean Dread Knight or like a psyfleman dreadnought?
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/22 21:47:06
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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Ahhhh, sorry, I meant dreadknight
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/23 09:30:03
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Hrm... 2 DK's at 1000 points??? I'll be unstoppable wmahahaha or so I hope lol. Might be a bit shy in bodies but seems like fun.
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/23 09:46:03
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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Maybe fill out with Coteaz and henchman to help with lack of bodies?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/24 15:17:03
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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well based on what has been suggested so far... I got myself something that may look like this?
Coteaz with 3 servators and plasma cannons + multi-melta
5 man Strike squad with psycannon
DK + incinerator and H. psycannon ( I suppose I can just drop the H. pyscannons and get teleporters?)
DK + incinerator and H.psycannon
That leaves me with some 340 points left over. I can afford some 68 bolter acolytes
or I can get an aegis and get 48 bolter acolytes.
If I toss in some plasma, that'll leave me with 42 bolter acolytes and 3 plasma guns.
Only down side is I feel like I don't have any mobility but one heck of a shooting gallery. No assaults either unless the DK come to help out.
Alternative could be:
Coteaz with 2 plasma cannon servators and 1 multi-melta servator
strike squad with psycannon
Aegis with quad gun
DK with incinerator and teleporter
DK with incinerator and teleporter
3 plasma henchmen
3 plasma henchmen
And then 22 bolter henchmen to toss around for bodies. No real transports but I got some speed I suppose if I need it. Lack of Melta and lack of long range shooting has me somewhat concerned however....
Alternative #3
Coteaz
servators
strike squad
aegis with quad
DK with incinerator and teleporter
storm raven and DCA with some smattering of plasma henchmen and possible psyker inquisitor thrown in there.
Alternative #4
Coteaz
aegis?
DK with incinerator and teleporter
All mech psybolt razorbacks / chimeras with henchmen
Alternative #5
Coteaz
DK with incinerator and teleporter
Necron destroyer lord + wraiths and a nightscythe 5 man warrior squad
Then fill out list with bolter acolytes/plasma
(1 squad of 3 plasma guns and 27 bodies for henchmen)
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/05 00:59:38
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Tourney went well enough but I ended up going with tau/eldar as they already had GK players and I wanted to bring some variety
Anyways, I'm doing a rewrite of some more stuff on henchmen and DK later on as I think there are some more optimized loadouts lately given shifts in my local meta.
Also allowing forge world has changed up alot of my allies matrices so I'm gonna have to go shove out more cash to read up on imperial armor stuff lol.
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/05 08:37:51
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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Any advise on tackling av13/14, have a lot or raiders/russ in my gaming group and Im finding it hard to crack them open. I normally have my mm raven, and then rely on psfleman glancing to death. I tried a vindicare but he either fluffed his 4d6 penetration, or rolled a 1-3 to on the chart :/ Any ideas, maybe allies?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/05 10:13:33
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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tuiman wrote:Any advise on tackling av13/14, have a lot or raiders/russ in my gaming group and Im finding it hard to crack them open. I normally have my mm raven, and then rely on psfleman glancing to death. I tried a vindicare but he either fluffed his 4d6 penetration, or rolled a 1-3 to on the chart :/ Any ideas, maybe allies?
The MM raven is pretty much our best bet. Psyker henchmen with str 10 is another alternative if you don't have to worry about runes of warding. Suicide melta acolytes just don't work as well as I really hope so lately as their ride just isn't that strong and most of the raiders / russes are going to be pretty far back.
Vindicare is really a good bet honestly but he tends to get out gunned as he's only 36'. Usually need 2 sources to keep something in range or go 2nd to be able get good shots on them. The vindicare rolling 3's is annoying as it bumps to a 5 which just immobilizes. a 2 could at least make things shaken so at least it'll stop the ordinance from shooting back. The LR also will have difficulty hitting but does have those twin linked at least. One game won't show you what it can do honestly. I'd give him another try.
Allies with drop pods and melta guns is a good alternative (like grey hunters or rune priest hunter drop pod). Railgun tau broadsides is another decent choice. (2-3 broadsides inside a bastion with some fire warriors and a commander on the quad gun or lascannon on the roof is kind of a nice hard to budge block. The fire warriors are still decent now a days as carapace armor is pretty good and can hide alot. No significant psychic power buffs or defense unfortunately, also no good air protection even with forge world)
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/05 15:30:42
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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I know purgation squads get a bad rap for being overpriced, but rending psycannons are a glorious thing. Maybe stick a TDA psycannon inquisitor with prescience in a purgation squad and park them midfield? 5 twin-linked psycannons. Don't bother using Astral Aim, just use a cheap rhino for cover, using a flat-out move each turn to screen the squad after you shoot. I've done this before, tore the crap out of Necrons and their Quantum Shielding.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/06 09:36:02
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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Thanks Sudojoe, my raven normally does a good job but it leaves me relying a lot on 1 shot that might not arrive until turn 4. I always feel I could do with an extra 2-3 options to take out av13/14.
I will try the assassin again and see how it goes, I guess another option is just ti charge with the dreadknight
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/06 16:28:56
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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So, after a long hiatus, I'm planning to make a return with a revamped more-to-TAC GK list. I previously played a henchmen pseudo-gunline spam that has completely dominated my local FLGS meta and made players not want to play against my GK list anymore, and I want to move up and build a more competitive list rather than just catering to the local meta. There's a small local tourney coming up, and I used the guidelines on the first post to build this to hopefully be more TAC.
Coteaz w/ Divination Powers
Librarian w/ Warding Stave, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Warp Rift (Depending on the match-up, I can swap to Divination powers)
Techmarine w/ Power Axe, Storm Bolter, Psychotroke & Rad Grenades, 3 Servoskulls
1x 5-man Paladin squad w/ 2 master-crafted Psycannons, 3 Halberds, 2 Hammers
1x 5-man GKSS w/ Psycannon, Psybolt ammo
Razorback w/ TLHB, Psybolt ammo
1x Henchmen Squad w/ 2 Plascannon Servitors, 2 Jokaero, 5 Bolter Acolytes
Razorback w/ TLHB, Psybolt ammo
1x Henchmen Squad w/ 8 Psykers, 4 Bolter Acolytes
Chimera w/ Multilaser & HB
2x Psyflemen Dreads
1x Stormraven w/ TLMM, TLLC
1x Stormraven w/ TLMM, TLAC, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
There are 2 ways I could deploy with this list, with the Paladins either one Stormraven with either the Librarian or Techmarine (with the other in the 2nd Stormraven, could be with GKSS if need be too) or everything on the board (the Paladins could then ride the Chimera if they need to move during the game). This will theoretically allow me to push several threats up midfield simultaneously - 2 Stormravens with dangerous cargo, 3 armored pillboxes (I can load them up with the Psykers and/or GKSS), and 2 shooty dreads. From what I've seen, people like to focus fire on my Stormravens once they learn a Paladin squad is inside, but even a rolling 36" Str. 10 AP 1 with 4 more bolters shooting out is enough to give some players pause.
I chose the Librarian over a GM for more utility and versatility - he can either stick with his codex powers or take Divination powers as need be. With 2++ potentially-rerollable invul in CC, he should do a good job tanking in CC or providing support whichever way. Since my only reserves will be the 2 Stormravens either way, hopefully I'll roll the Divination power that gives me 3d6-pick-one for my reserves rolls rather than relying on Psychic Communion.
My only fear is that I won't have enough boots on the ground (story of GK life...) but I'll be able to hold home objectives with Coteaz & co., potentially contest the rest. I wish I had the points to run 10 Paladins or 10 Terminators w/ Justicar Thawn, though, that would be perfect. :( Thoughts on this list?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/06 17:01:13
Click here for my Swap Shop post - I'm buying stuff!
DR:90-S++G++M+B++I+Pw40kPbfg99#+D++A++/eWDR++T(T)DM+
Black Legion/Iron Warriors/Night Lords Inquisitorial Friends & Co. (Inq, GK, Elysians, Assassins) Elysian Droptroops, soon-to-add Armored Battlegroup Adeptus Mechanicus Forge World Lucius
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/07 05:45:37
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Fixture of Dakka
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Enigwolf wrote:
Coteaz w/ Divination Powers
Librarian w/ Warding Stave, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Warp Rift (Depending on the match-up, I can swap to Divination powers)
Techmarine w/ Power Axe, Storm Bolter, Psychotroke & Rad Grenades, 3 Servoskulls
1x 5-man Paladin squad w/ 2 master-crafted Psycannons, 3 Halberds, 2 Hammers
1x 5-man GKSS w/ Psycannon, Psybolt ammo
Razorback w/ TLHB, Psybolt ammo
1x Henchmen Squad w/ 2 Plascannon Servitors, 2 Jokaero, 5 Bolter Acolytes
Razorback w/ TLHB, Psybolt ammo
1x Henchmen Squad w/ 8 Psykers, 4 Bolter Acolytes
Chimera w/ Multilaser & HB
2x Psyflemen Dreads
1x Stormraven w/ TLMM, TLLC
1x Stormraven w/ TLMM, TLAC, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
Your list is ok, but I don't see it as being all that great. The main problem is that you just don't have enough scoring units and your firepower is somewhat lacking. You will have problems against flyer-spam, horde armies, wraithwing necrons, Tzeentch daemons and many of the other competitive tournament builds.
Your deathstar with techmarine and perhaps librarian has some staying power but it doesn't really have a whole lot of hitting power. They will kill MEQ units and can possibly tie up enemy deathstars for a while, but don't expect them to be able to wade through cheap enemy tarpits like gants, orks and zombie cultists.
My suggestion? De-emphasize your assault unit and focus more on your shooting. Drop the techmarine or librarian (or even both!) and get more troops and shooting into that list. If anything, consider getting a GKGM. He can still take grenades, but he can also make your paladins and dreadnoughts scoring. This list may do well on the local level, but I just don't see it doing all that well in a more competitive setting like a GT.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/07 10:56:57
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Enigwolf wrote:So, after a long hiatus, I'm planning to make a return with a revamped more-to- TAC GK list. I previously played a henchmen pseudo-gunline spam that has completely dominated my local FLGS meta and made players not want to play against my GK list anymore, and I want to move up and build a more competitive list rather than just catering to the local meta. There's a small local tourney coming up, and I used the guidelines on the first post to build this to hopefully be more TAC.
Coteaz w/ Divination Powers
Librarian w/ Warding Stave, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Warp Rift (Depending on the match-up, I can swap to Divination powers)
Techmarine w/ Power Axe, Storm Bolter, Psychotroke & Rad Grenades, 3 Servoskulls
1x 5-man Paladin squad w/ 2 master-crafted Psycannons, 3 Halberds, 2 Hammers
1x 5-man GKSS w/ Psycannon, Psybolt ammo
Razorback w/ TLHB, Psybolt ammo
1x Henchmen Squad w/ 2 Plascannon Servitors, 2 Jokaero, 5 Bolter Acolytes
Razorback w/ TLHB, Psybolt ammo
1x Henchmen Squad w/ 8 Psykers, 4 Bolter Acolytes
Chimera w/ Multilaser & HB
2x Psyflemen Dreads
1x Stormraven w/ TLMM, TLLC
1x Stormraven w/ TLMM, TLAC, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
There are 2 ways I could deploy with this list, with the Paladins either one Stormraven with either the Librarian or Techmarine (with the other in the 2nd Stormraven, could be with GKSS if need be too) or everything on the board (the Paladins could then ride the Chimera if they need to move during the game). This will theoretically allow me to push several threats up midfield simultaneously - 2 Stormravens with dangerous cargo, 3 armored pillboxes (I can load them up with the Psykers and/or GKSS), and 2 shooty dreads. From what I've seen, people like to focus fire on my Stormravens once they learn a Paladin squad is inside, but even a rolling 36" Str. 10 AP 1 with 4 more bolters shooting out is enough to give some players pause.
I chose the Librarian over a GM for more utility and versatility - he can either stick with his codex powers or take Divination powers as need be. With 2++ potentially-rerollable invul in CC, he should do a good job tanking in CC or providing support whichever way. Since my only reserves will be the 2 Stormravens either way, hopefully I'll roll the Divination power that gives me 3d6-pick-one for my reserves rolls rather than relying on Psychic Communion.
My only fear is that I won't have enough boots on the ground (story of GK life...) but I'll be able to hold home objectives with Coteaz & co., potentially contest the rest. I wish I had the points to run 10 Paladins or 10 Terminators w/ Justicar Thawn, though, that would be perfect. :( Thoughts on this list?
My personal preferance in this case would be to pretty much agree with JY2. The tarpit of choice lately while doing ok with a librarian with a staff and hopefully the right divination powers, is still somewhat offset by his slow mobility and getting lucky on the rolls for powers. A DK is just plain more versatile. While I always will have a soft spot for paladins, it's too much of a points sink for this kind of list. 8 relentless psycannons are kind of cool but it's a bit "fat" for a fire base and not enough bodies. Also they aren't scoring.
For a 5 man GK SS squad, I'd skip the psybolt. Save it for a 10 man squad and you can always combat squad them around.
Right now, your storm ravens will be alot of fun but they are like 450 points for the pair. If poor reserve rolls or if the other guy has an astropath, the whole thing could be tough for you to survive otherwise as you're already short on bodies.
While this sounds kind of funky considering we're telling you to trim the points, I feel like your psyker chimera will probably do better with storm bolter acolytes. The thing is still gonna be kind of slow to cross the field as they can only move 6' or you're snap firing just about everything. You're not gonna get to rapid fire range very easily. Going out with the chimera will also often mean death from the sides as the AV 10 back/sides are easily brought down. My chimeras tend to just be pill boxes lately.
I still go flat out with rhinos occassionally though but have changed alot of my tactics to minimize problems with vehicle survival while trying to stay mobile. Skimmer transports are the way to go in 6th. Tank transports unfortunately kind of suck cept as mobile bunkers/ LOS blocking VP's for the enemy unless there is good amount of terrain on the map. Something not always granted by the game.
One fun trick I've done with my rhinos and the such for when I play Tau allies is to use a devifish to "tank" for my more squishy rhinos as it's flat out save makes it 2+ cover in the open and can obscure most of a rhino so you can claim a 3+ cover for the rhino piggybacking along. Problem with this is thelack of any good air support options from the Tau nor with anti-psyker, nor CC's. Good vehicles however. You'll also have some fun times with 3 railguns in a bastion. It's kind of fun lol.
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+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/07 14:51:15
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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Thanks for all that feedback! I took it them into consideration when reiterating the list. I absolutely love having two Stormravens around, but alas, you guys are right in that unbalances my list a little. :( I initially removed the techmarine, but then added him back when I found that I still had some points I could squeeze him in with, since in my local meta terrain pieces are huge, and I love the 3+ cover that he turns them into. Of course, this is highly situational and is never going to apply if I were to go to a GT. I wanted to replace the Librarian with a GKGM, but the GKGM turned out to start being a little expensive, and I wasn't relishing losing the Librarian's utility too much.
Coteaz w/ Divination Powers
Librarian w/ Halberd, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Warp Rift
Techmarine w/ Power Axe, Storm Bolter, Psychotroke & Rad Grenades, 3 Servoskulls
1x 5-man Terminator squad w/ 1 Psycannon, 3 Halberds, 2 Hammers
1x 10-man GKSS w/ 2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo
Razorback w/ TLHB, Psybolt ammo
1x Henchmen Squad w/ 2 Plascannon Servitors, 2 Jokaero, 5 Bolter Acolytes
Razorback w/ TLHB, Psybolt ammo
1x Henchmen Squad w/ 8 Psykers, 4 Stormbolter Acolytes
Chimera w/ Multilaser & HB
2x Psyflemen Dreads
1x Dreadknight w/ Heavy Psycannon, Greatsword, Personal Teleporter
1x Stormraven w/ TLMM, TLLC
Compared to the previous list, this puts a little more emphasis on the dakka - same number of psycannons but with the GKSS expanded to 10 instead and the addition of a Dreadknight, as well as one more scoring unit (two if the GKSS combat squads) and one more denial unit. If I could get Thawn in, I could potentially have yet another scoring unit if he dies and gets back up. I decided to stick with the Chimera despite its side armor vulnerability due to the fact that if my opponent isn't running blast weapons, I use strategic movement and placement of the Rhinos to obscure side armor shots.
If I were to make any changes to this, an alternative would be me replacing both the Librarian and Techmarine with a GKGM with psycannon or replacing one Psyfleman and the Techmarine with that second Stormraven I love, or both changes. I've also been looking at Tau allies - Shas'o in a Crisis suit, Fire Warriors and Devilfish for blocking shenanigans, and 3 Broadsides to replace either one or both Psyflemen (and hey, look, unlike Psyflemen they'll benefit from the 3+ bolstered terrain my techmarine gives!  ). But that will have to wait for now because I don't own any Tau...
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/07 14:54:45
Click here for my Swap Shop post - I'm buying stuff!
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Black Legion/Iron Warriors/Night Lords Inquisitorial Friends & Co. (Inq, GK, Elysians, Assassins) Elysian Droptroops, soon-to-add Armored Battlegroup Adeptus Mechanicus Forge World Lucius
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/09 13:11:07
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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The comming of the DA codex is amongst us!
As you guys have probably already seen pictures of and or seen other posts of these guys on, I'm expecting a bit of a hit to our GK's with the release of DA.
Several things make me afraid of our survivability in that DA's seem to have alot of plasma including terminator mounted Plasma cannons that can split fire, bike mounted twin linked plasma, Flying things with lots of guns and shared stealth and possibly plasma lol and of course the new land speeder vengeance which will for sure have plasma on it as it's already pictured. The plasma storm whatever that is does not sound good for us! Not sure what plasma talons are yet but sounds like more plasma at any rate. I have a feeling we're gonna lose our big terminator advantage here as they got all sorts of fancy hammer of wrath things apparently too with atr 10 AP2.
Seems like more and more, we'll be depending on our henchmen and power armored goons and GW just seems hell bent on getting rid of our paladins for CC anyway and 2+ just won't be the same afterwards. Heck, even the lowly rhino or our HB razorbacks will not be able to handle that much plasma including split fire plasma no less.
Well, at least that's just my initial read of the white dwarf. What do you all think?
PS. despite us having psycannons that are str 7, AP 4, the plasma AP2 makes a notable difference on the vehicle damage table now as well as our saves at least.
PPS. Either get some DA allies in or necrons as the assault counter as my initial reaction but I could be jumping the gun. Good thing we're kind of friendly with everyone on the allies table lol.
PPPS. Time to bust out my Ulumeathi Plasma syphon ordo xenos inquisitor wmahahaha (too bad there seems alot of long range plasma but at least it'll be effective vs the rapid fire bikes)
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/01/09 21:21:16
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/09 16:46:18
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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I have a suspicion that the GK ability to spam Str 7 AP 4 is going to be far overshadowed by the DA ability to spam Str 7 AP 2 in addition to having larger units... Hm.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/09 16:46:33
Click here for my Swap Shop post - I'm buying stuff!
DR:90-S++G++M+B++I+Pw40kPbfg99#+D++A++/eWDR++T(T)DM+
Black Legion/Iron Warriors/Night Lords Inquisitorial Friends & Co. (Inq, GK, Elysians, Assassins) Elysian Droptroops, soon-to-add Armored Battlegroup Adeptus Mechanicus Forge World Lucius
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/09 22:57:55
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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The first thing I thought was that gk dont have much access to plasma, (outside of henchman reallyt) so the new dark angels would make a great allied addition to them.
Was almost going to get some crons, but will now wait. You can pick up dark vengeance pretty cheap, maybe a tac squad and libby for the hq and troops, then a bike squad with plasma talons (18inch plasma guns), maybe a deathwing squad or a new flyer. Lots to think about.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/10 12:12:40
Subject: Re:6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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I can see some good synergy with GK too like you said. I'd probably get in some sort of RW bikes to go well and replace the rhinos. GK can be the fire base for some sort of hammer and anvil type of strat
Either that or maybe swarm the enemy with our terminators along with DA terminators?
I'm more of the opinion though due to costs of units most likely that I'd get the DA stealth flier or w/e the thing that kills other air planes to assist with air superiority along with a storm raven. Then the ground pounders can slog away without problems at range with plasma cannons and psycannons.
Gosh I wish rending gave AP2. wonder if they'll ever FAQ it to say that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/10 12:13:36
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/10 12:28:26
Subject: 6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for V1.1)
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Deranged Necron Destroyer
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Rending does give AP2 as far as i read the rules...
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You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
And we shall do so again.
4500 pts
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