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 jy2 wrote:
Started my report. Will finish in a couple of days.


2000-pts Jy2's NEW MTO Greyzilla Army vs GTKA666's I.A.C. System Eldar

Brutal fight. I love it! Seem like you are definitely making those warpsiders pay off for you. I like how they would synergize with interceptors as well in a foot list. I've run that before as more of a soft list for some friends so they don't get overwhelmed by all the MC's lol.

So this year there is no doubles, so no cheesy triple knight/riptide list, its 1850 normal.

I've ran Draigowing for my two tournies this year, first time I did alright but second time round I got stomped by the new tau, and there is a lot more AP2 around.

SO looking at different builds just wondering what people think is the best for gk in the current tau eldar meta?

1.Triple dreadknights, either with Mordrak/interceptors or something else
2. Triple landraiders, not many seem to take things to deal with lots of AV14 these days, combine this with Coteaz and henchman to get more bodies, load up some crusaders with deathcults?
3. Strike spam, simple but still effective?
4. Allies? Tau or eldar maybe, Im wondering if I could take jy2's monster list and cut it down to 1850 points?

Anyway, would like to hear what people have been having good results with at the moment, and looking for ideas on what to take, cheers.

I'll find out soon enough. I'm taking grey knights to a tournament....and it's going to be Draigowing! It's going to be at 2K and a grueling 6-games 2-day event with probably 200+ people. It's not pure GK, with necrons as allies, but it has the potential to do well. What am I taking?


2K "Draicronic Measures" NecroKnights

Draigo
Coteaz

10x Paladins - "the works" including Apothecary
1x Hammerdin

Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread

Allies:

Necron Overlord - 2+, MSS, Warscythe

5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe

Annihilation Barge


It's not a very balanced army and it'll actually be the first time I am taking Draigowing to a tournament, but if I/my team doesn't make it to the Top 10, then I will be disappointed.

 tuiman wrote:
So this year there is no doubles, so no cheesy triple knight/riptide list, its 1850 normal.

I've ran Draigowing for my two tournies this year, first time I did alright but second time round I got stomped by the new tau, and there is a lot more AP2 around.

SO looking at different builds just wondering what people think is the best for gk in the current tau eldar meta?

1.Triple dreadknights, either with Mordrak/interceptors or something else
2. Triple landraiders, not many seem to take things to deal with lots of AV14 these days, combine this with Coteaz and henchman to get more bodies, load up some crusaders with deathcults?
3. Strike spam, simple but still effective?
4. Allies? Tau or eldar maybe, Im wondering if I could take jy2's monster list and cut it down to 1850 points?

Anyway, would like to hear what people have been having good results with at the moment, and looking for ideas on what to take, cheers.

I think against Tau, if you take an Apothecary, then you will be ok. It won't be an easy fight, but the trick against Tau is to deny them their shooting and to control the middle IMO (with a Draigowing build).

1. This is definitely a scary build for Tau. I like the Mordrak Shunt-knights build and they've got the speed+resiliency to really give Tau problems.

2. While Tau ironically are less prepared to deal with AV14 nowadays, this is not an autowin build for the GK's Trip-LR's really don't have the firepower to stop the Tau. Also, don't under-estimate the firepower of Tau. I brought a triple-LR/triple-hellturkey competitive Chaos build against a triple-riptide Tau list and he easily dispatched of 2 of my LR's and 2 turkeys. My last LR had to stay near my objective because of the troops inside. A good, balanced Tau list should have the tools to deal with land raiders. It may not necessarily be as effective as the olden days with S10 railguns, but if it cannot deal with LR's, then it isn't a good and balanced Tau list.

3. Striker-spam will more likely than not lose against a good Tau list. Tau are just too effective at killing MEQ's nowadays. Striker can still win if they get a good alpha-strike, but overall, IMO this would be an uphill battle for the knights.

4. Definitely. Allies will help with one of the GK's greatest weaknesses - mobile scoring units. I especially like necrons for their troops in flyers or eldar for their jetbikes. Another good addition is IG for they staying power. The trend for competitive 40K nowadays is power combos. Either with psychic powers or allies. Unfortunately, as much as I prefer to stick with just 1 homogenous army, I'm finding it more and more tempting (as well as fun!) to include allies.


BTW, my monster list at 1850 would probably look something like this:


Draigo

Autarch - Jetbike, Banshee Masks, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance, Mantle of the Laughing God

1x Soladin - Hammer
1x Soladin - Hammer
1x Soladin - Hammer

3x Guardian Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon

3x Guardian Jetbikes - Shuriken Cannon

10x Warp Spiders

Nemesis Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
Nemesis Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
Nemesis Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter

Wraith Knight

Total - 1850


Basically, I would reserve all my "soft" units - soladins and jetbikes and probably warp spiders and Draigo as well (if I have to, deploy 1 soladin on an objective and out of LOS). Draigo will attach to a soladin and soladins will deepstrike.

I like that monster list Jy2, I might have to borrow it for a test game if you dont mind

Yea I always liked the idea of cron allies as a couple of squads of warriors in scythes adds so much to the army.

My purifier spam list has been on hold ever since 6th ed ( its the basic net list 3 dread 6 squad in rhino 2x psycannon)

do i now need to change this list because I feel its not gonna work anymore since no one uses them anymore and the current meta with all the eldar serpents flyers and tau gunline i feel psycannon are nothing special anymore

weirdly enough, I've been playing a very similar by feel Tau list that feels very much the same as my old purifier build as it is essentially str 7 spam with the farsight enclave. Well, technically closer to terminator spam as each guy shoots 4 str 7 shots (though no rending) and it's mostly foot.

I think purifiers can still do ok but needs to use the rhino as either just a mobile wall if you want to leverage their assault potential as well.
Tau crisis suits are fairly similar when it comes to just their shooting potential.

I think though with the frequency of heldrakes as such a hard counter to expensive foot MEQ, most lists tend to go cheap acolytes or paladins which still offer quite a few things that are unique for GK's.

Do you guys think 3 Dreadknights is a must, or can 2 work, depending on what else the list brings?

Sudojoe, with the Farsight supplement out and your experience with working on the changes/tactical thread for Tau, I wanted to get your thoughts on this. Previously, running a HBC Riptide relied on a support commander or a bunch of Markerlights to make sure he doesn't Gets Hot! himself to death, but now we get the ECPA which essentially makes the Riptide able to field a HBC on his own, effectively.

What's your take on fielding Farsight allies over pure Tau allies, given the ECPA Riptide, and that you can also field Crisis suits as a pretty mobile (mandatory) Troops choice and the Mirror Codex for 5+ Seize for a shooty GK+Tau army?

Super Newb wrote:Do you guys think 3 Dreadknights is a must, or can 2 work, depending on what else the list brings?

You definitely don't need 3 DK's as 2 are fine especially as the other heavy slot can go to a psyfleman dread who will provide some much needed Aegis protection for your units and is still a fine use of points. Less efficient than the necron annihilation barge but so is pretty much everything else in the game.

Enigwolf wrote:Sudojoe, with the Farsight supplement out and your experience with working on the changes/tactical thread for Tau, I wanted to get your thoughts on this. Previously, running a HBC Riptide relied on a support commander or a bunch of Markerlights to make sure he doesn't Gets Hot! himself to death, but now we get the ECPA which essentially makes the Riptide able to field a HBC on his own, effectively.

What's your take on fielding Farsight allies over pure Tau allies, given the ECPA Riptide, and that you can also field Crisis suits as a pretty mobile (mandatory) Troops choice and the Mirror Codex for 5+ Seize for a shooty GK+Tau army?

I'm still a big fan of the IA personally for the riptide as mine tends to be as far away as possible most times lol but I think the HBC + ECPA is a fine combo to let him stand on his own though it's funny but I actually find myself assaulting quite a lot with my riptides. Yes, it sounds like madness but hear me out. WS2 hits things on 4's fairly nicely and can hit vehicles on 3's even if moving. WS1 would need 5's to hit most things and even needs 4's to hit moving vehicles. I often interceptor fire so people tend to count the riptide out for a turn and the ability to carry on an assault with a fairly tough creature that can get Str 10 (often rerollable as I prescience with eldar allies) This serves to tie up any deep striking units I didn't wipe out, destroy those annoying drop pods that continue to harass at my men, or even tie up a big blob of things for many turns. I've often charged khorne dogs and just held them up for a long time as the rest of the army focus down other slower assault units. Sure my riptide is tied up, but it's still better than the rest of the forces eating dirt naps and I do tie up quite a lot of points. The key is to know how many points you are trading at any one time (which means a lot of memorizing or guesstimations on every codex out there). Getting the charge off with smash is actually gives you 3 attacks as well and it has wiped out a lot of unsuspecting folks.

Anyways, with the HBC, I tend to get uncomfortably close (in my opinion) to depend more on charges and while I'll have a better chance of 3++ with the ECPA, most times the things I charge tend to give me my armor saves and rarely will I try to charge anything I need the 3++ on (as those tend to be more combat focused elements) A riptide can charge and win or tie up other armies shooty elements in most cases but dedicated close combat will beat it almost every time. The ECPA as you suspect, however, is great with the HBC by itself especially in multiple riptide lists as you probably won't have the marker lights around to support everything and you only have so many allied farseers.

I generally like the generic Tau lists better but I suspect that's just my personal preference. Coteaz + mirror codex is actually pretty nice as it puts you almost at 50% of stealing the initiative. For my allies for GK tau, I've focused more on gunline builds with combinations of broadsides/IA riptides/marker drones commander with some outflanking kroot to score an objective. It's stable and fairly reliable but heavy crisis suits builds would essentially give me mobile missle sides with 2nd of plasma replacing the missle broadsides (due to points) and going from 2+ armor to 3+ though I gain mobility. cheap kroot is also removed and I'm usually forced to get something like a hammerhead or skyray due to points. Also my support commander is going to lose his T5/2+ iridium armor which generally decreases my marker drone survivability not to mention the puretide chip which I often get to join him to the broadsides and or riptide to get tank hunter/monster hunter. I just haven't felt that 6 crisis suits + skyray or hammerhead or possibly sniper team has been worth the trade off. Taking 6 suits + 3 broadsides with missles makes me just want to go ahead and go Tau main and then throw in some GK allies instead as I'll need more markerlights to support that kind of army. I'll just have some GK counter assault and or just more dakka elements instead.

Picked up my Wraithknight today, can't wait to start messing with some GK Dreadknight/Eldar Wraithknight builds.

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Picked up my Wraithknight today, can't wait to start messing with some GK Dreadknight/Eldar Wraithknight

builds.

Will soon be doing the same haha, was almost going to go with a riptide but like Eldar overall better than tau. Keep us posted how it goes

Per older fluff, Grey Knights are allies with Eldar via Harliquins and the Black library. GK / Eldar armies are fluffy, so to speak, even if heavy on the crunch.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Per older fluff, Grey Knights are allies with Eldar via Harliquins and the Black library. GK / Eldar armies are fluffy, so to speak, even if heavy on the crunch.

SJ

Well at least that's something, trying to think of fluff for necron or tau allies was very hard to do

Tau is easy, just pretend they are like the space monkies that are willing to work with the GK who will take any and all advantages vs daemons.

Necrons would just be like brofist blood angels

technically necrons hate the warp as in their lore, the old ones were masters of the warp and they have invented many anit-warp tech such as the pylons on Cadia that keep the eye of terror corridor at bay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Picked up my Wraithknight today, can't wait to start messing with some GK Dreadknight/Eldar Wraithknight builds.

I bought mine in parts as it came in cheaper from bits sellers by 20 bucks over even the regular sales Unfortunately I don't have the instruction manual so I'm just trying different combinations till it looks like what it should look like I think...

I was thinking of a way for GK to combat Tau...would the ability to bring 5 tooled up dreadknights be a bad idea? I am serious in this thought... All with teleporters, sword, flamer and gattling.

 EmperorsChampion wrote:
I was thinking of a way for GK to combat Tau...would the ability to bring 5 tooled up dreadknights be a bad idea? I am serious in this thought... All with teleporters, sword, flamer and gattling.

Yes because the Gatling Psilencer is awful. That aside, you still couldn't do this unless you were playing 2k and above anyway.

So I'd like some opinions on this army idea. Basically is comes down to a GK Coteaz lead army spamming cheap troops backed up by Farsight enclave army of elites suits/riptide/broadsides.

General List:

Coteaz

Henchmen 1 3x acolytes SBs, 2x Acolyte Bolter (with coteaz) Chimera with Dozerblade, SL

Henchmen 2 4xpsykers 1x warrior Razorback with psyammo SL

Henchmen 3 4xpsykers 1x warrior Razorback with psyammo SL

Henchmen 4 4xpsykers 1x warrior Razorback with psyammo SL

Henchmen 5 3xacolyte bolter

Henchmen 6 3xacolyte bolter

Stormraven MM/LC SL

Stormraven MM/LC SL hurricane bolters (it's modelled)

Commander 2x Mpods DC TL 2x Markerdrones

3x Suits 2xmpods and tl each total of 2x markerdrones

2x suits 2xmpods and flamer

Riptide HBC TLMelta ETCA VT

2x broadsides HYMpods ewo

I'm attempting to make use of a lot of my carry over models from my witchhunter-turned-GK army. Do you think this list could be effective?

I haven't played my Grey Knights since late last year now and looking at the meta now, I'm finding it a lot more difficult to see how to build a top-notch Grey Knight army without allies like I used to. My old Strike Spam with Ravens and Dreadknights is screwed against Heldrakes, and taking Rhinos means dropping too many guys and losing Psycannons. And speaking of Psycannons, it seems the new Xenos books all like long ranged fire fights making Psycannons a lot less useful.

So my question is this, what are competitive tournament players running for Grey Knights to compete with the current meta? I looked at Draigowing with IG blob backed by Raven/Vendetta and Dreadknights, but something about it feels wrong to me, though maybe its just because I'm still used to a time when Strikes were way better than Paladins. This doesn't look to be the case anymore.

I know what you mean. Someone asked me to help them with a good GK build for 6th, since they knew I used to do very well with my old one in 5th. But I just don't see them being competitive as the main army in 6th right now. I see them more as a convenient ally.

Another problem is that our guys pay a premium for all having Force Weapons, but these are also a lot less useful with a lot more T3 AS5 guys running around rather than last year's MEQ environment.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
though maybe its just because I'm still used to a time when Strikes were way better than Paladins. This doesn't look to be the case anymore.

Disclaimer - I barely played at all under 6th rules

I don't see how Paladins are better than Strikers (as troops). Wound allocations shenanigans don't work anymore for Paladins under 6th, so aren't they worse than before now?

Super Newb wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
though maybe its just because I'm still used to a time when Strikes were way better than Paladins. This doesn't look to be the case anymore.

Disclaimer - I barely played at all under 6th rules

I don't see how Paladins are better than Strikers (as troops). Wound allocations shenanigans don't work anymore for Paladins under 6th, so aren't they worse than before now?

I never said Paladins are better than Strikes. You are missing the overall point regarding the meta.

Last year the way things were, for equal points Strikes gave more wounds and more shots, and thus more bang for your buck with little reason to take Paladins. The meta has changed drastically since then. AP3 and ignores cover have become incredibly common, the Heldrake in particular turned the meta on its face. Paladins now finally have a place in lists again, as they are immune to the worst of the Heldrake's crap, and don't worry about cover like everyone else does thanks to invulnerables. The big change to S6-7 SPAM also means they worry about Instant Death a lot less, though it is admittedly still a concern. The Strikes still give more firepower and wounds, the problem is they are much, much easier to take away nowadays than they were before, giving Paladins a role once again.

I don't know the meta, because I don't play enough. Thanks for your summary.

Does this mean Terminators may actually be useful again?

GKs are in an odd posisiton, that a lot of the stuff that is helping to give PA a bad time is also AP2. CSM, Eldar, and Tau have pushed GKs out of the competitive scene. I used to love spamming PA for my GKs, now with all the AP3/2/1 ignore cover or not, it's rough paying 20pts at least per model just to get blanked off the board.

At least we aren't blood angels... yet... give it a few more dexes with key ap3 or better weapons and we'll see haha

I wouldn't say we were hit that hard. We are certainly still near the top, just it isn't as basic as it was before. Also, we are still better than CSM overall; the Heldrake is the only bent thing there.

As for Terminators Super Newb, I'd say regular Termies are still too expensive compared to other options. Paladins get a place because they bring multiple wounds and a vast array of weaponry among other things.

GM, I guess my lack of game-experience leaves a giant gap in my knowledge, because I don't know how to make a good list with Paladins in it. What do people typically do? Driago or no Draigo?

Super Newb wrote:
GM, I guess my lack of game-experience leaves a giant gap in my knowledge, because I don't know how to make a good list with Paladins in it. What do people typically do? Driago or no Draigo?

I'd never take Paladins without Draigo. I used to run Draigowing in early 6th when they were all characters but stopped after the FAQ nerfed them. I'm trying to build a list with them now though, though I am finding building any Grey Knight lists more difficult. I won't get to try it out for awhile yet, but the list right now has Draigo, 5 Paladins, 2 Soladins, a Raven, 2 Dreadknights, a CCS, a Guard blob, and a Vendetta.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
GM, I guess my lack of game-experience leaves a giant gap in my knowledge, because I don't know how to make a good list with Paladins in it. What do people typically do? Driago or no Draigo?

I'd never take Paladins without Draigo. I used to run Draigowing in early 6th when they were all characters but stopped after the FAQ nerfed them. I'm trying to build a list with them now though, though I am finding building any Grey Knight lists more difficult. I won't get to try it out for awhile yet, but the list right now has Draigo, 5 Paladins, 2 Soladins, a Raven, 2 Dreadknights, a CCS, a Guard blob, and a Vendetta.

That isn't a bad set up. But GKs really need to lean on the crutch of allies now and probably until they get their offical 6th book.

Yeah that's the big change I noticed. I have never used allies before with my GK and used to come in the top 5 of tournies consistently, but now when I build my usual sort of list I have confidence in it and so feel I need allies. And I know the default response these days seem to be 'take Tau', but GK + Tau feels wrong to me.

Haha, Tau, Eldar, IG, and crons are all solid choices for GKs. I still run them solo but I never take them to tournies anymore. The last few months I've been favoring CSM with daemon allies or visa versa. Doing well in my local tournies as well.