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Well CW can use the Warp Hunter too! And yeah it's awesome but I think it's a great representation of the Corsairs, having extremely varying weaponry. I would like to see the CW codex to be similar but obviously different. I love aspect warriors and just wish they were all viable.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

As foretold in the prophesy...

It's a stretch to say that these rumors match, actually. There's a bit of overlap, but not that much.

I was thinking about the warpspider everguard kit. We know what both are, yet I can't see how you could make a kit that uses the same parts to make separate units.

This is how it was described by Kirby, who put out the rumor before the huge-likely-fake list.

Eldar Warpspiders/Everguard

5 per box

Spiders: whole squad looks like the old exarch, no huge weapon, helmets smaller, but same shape, wrist blades, two small spinner weapons on rod mount from the back. Spider web like straps on the chest that hold the backpack (doesn’t look as broad as the old version), running, jumping and slightly cowering poses, exarch has extra pair of weapons on the cover, don’t remember the back pictures

Everguard: aspect warrior body with runes on the chest, same collar as warpspiders but no mandible arcs and gas masks, different more warlock-like face plate and small arc at back of the head, double bladed two-handed spears, very dynamic models, jets from the side/underside of the backpack, squad leader has larger head-arc, mantle hangs over the backpack, flies in the wind

Everguards were only seen in what... a single picture? Wouldn't be surprising if their concept was massively updated to something compatible with Warp Spiders. Especially if they are jump infantry.

Where are people seeing the upcoming release of the models? As in pictures

overlordweasel wrote:
Where are people seeing the upcoming release of the models? As in pictures

There are no pictures.

 Vhalyar wrote:

overlordweasel wrote:
Where are people seeing the upcoming release of the models? As in pictures

There are no pictures.

...yet!

There is a fair amount of Wishlisting though!

 felixander wrote:
Well in 2nd we paid a lot more for everything. Space Marines were 30 points each and are now ~16. So using that as a standard of measurement the Avatar has stayed on that 300 point track. But YES he is supposed to be Khaine incarnate, yet he has the same Toughness/Strength as Mephiston... I'd say T7 with 2+/3++ and 4+ FNP and cost him absurdly high. He's slow and is unable to hide inside of squads like most megakillers can.

Those sort of stats are crazy. Like 400+ points to balance crazy. An Avatar is effectively a Greater Daemon, so look at those for inspiration. Something far closer to S7 T6 4 wounds with 2/3+ and 4++. He is big and has his shining spear, but his major power would be an inspiring presence to nearby Eldar, giving things like Fearless and Furious Charge.

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Give the farseers the ablility to pick their psychic powers...walking into a battle with the wrong powers is stupid...( Well Farseer Ausi, your fighting Orks, so take some psychic powers that target one or two characters...that should work!! )

It's a mechanic of 6th edition. Best get used to it.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 felixander wrote:
Well in 2nd we paid a lot more for everything. Space Marines were 30 points each and are now ~16. So using that as a standard of measurement the Avatar has stayed on that 300 point track. But YES he is supposed to be Khaine incarnate, yet he has the same Toughness/Strength as Mephiston... I'd say T7 with 2+/3++ and 4+ FNP and cost him absurdly high. He's slow and is unable to hide inside of squads like most megakillers can.

Those sort of stats are crazy. Like 400+ points to balance crazy. An Avatar is effectively a Greater Daemon, so look at those for inspiration. Something far closer to S7 T6 4 wounds with 2/3+ and 4++. He is big and has his shining spear, but his major power would be an inspiring presence to nearby Eldar, giving things like Fearless and Furious Charge.

They are indeed "tots cray-cray" but compare him to a Bloodthirster:

Now I know that comparing things across Codex isn't fair as things differ between them for balance... but deal with it.

Compared to my proposed (not really well thought out, just ideas wordvomited out) Avatar, the Bloodthirster is -1T, -1i, and -1Sv/-1invulnSv but has Demonic Flight (which is HUGE advantage and costs 60 points alone), +1A and Furious Charge. The Avatar has the Inspiring Aura, Molten Body, FnP and a meltagun over him. I think the 60 points for the flight evenly trades for the Sv increases (if not against the Avatar). Let's pretend the initiative and attacks characteristics even out. Meaning that you add on +1T (+20), Inspiring Aura(+20), Molten Body(+15), FnP (+20) and Meltagun (let's trade this for Furious Charge). That's (generically speaking) ~350. Woop?

 -Loki- wrote:

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Give the farseers the ablility to pick their psychic powers...walking into a battle with the wrong powers is stupid...( Well Farseer Ausi, your fighting Orks, so take some psychic powers that target one or two characters...that should work!! )

It's a mechanic of 6th edition. Best get used to it.

I don't know, if they really wanted to pimp the fluff of Eldar being the best psykers in the galaxy, maybe they'd get some sort of way to choose or at least re-roll their powers. Especially since, fluffwise, Eldar never really go into a fight at all if they're not prepared and almost sure it'll turn out well. They should have some way of having their psykers be better, wheether that comes from better powers, more powers, or more reliably getting the powers you want.

Nope, you may be able to see a thousand years into the future but you would have no idea what psychic powers you've been trained to use..

That's what Primaris powers are for, but I wouldn't find it surprising if Eldar had a way of mucking with the tables. If every army should have some form of gimmick, that would fit as their version of CSM's chaos boons.

I would LOVE an farseer in a (vyper-like) chariot. It just has something about it... swooping around the battlefield and psyking units up to superhuman (sorry, they're Eldar so they are already) levels... I won't have enough HQ slots!

In second edition Vypers could Transport a single model, right? I think that'd be sick if they at least brought that back =P

Indeed, they did have the "Fighting Platform". And yes, they were awesome!! But back then under 2nd ed, we got to pick our powers and oftentimes, the purchased characters were better than the named characters in the codex.

Yeah guys, I think the new Eldar codex will be well written and yes they will get some cool new units, but lets be honest with each other...Unless the Shuriken Catapult is upgraded, the army will still play the same way...gang up on my enemy and overwhelm him with firepower. Now, I know thats the name of the game in general..force your opponent to fail his saves by massing wounds on him, I just hate seeing the look in my opponents eyes when 2 10 strong DA units roll up and blast his marines into smithereens. It seems to be a little too much of a "pendulum" (spelling?) army. Its either ALL or NOTHING.

If you will notice..the codex that have been obviously written for 6th ed ( DE, Crons, GK and of course CSM ) have been what I like to call either the "Steamroller" or "Snowball" lists. The crons and gk are steamrollers and the csm and de are snowballs. Steamrollers start and finish strong. Snowballs start mediocre and get better as the game progresses. The Eldar need to be a steamroller made out of a bullet train. They should use SPEED and FIRPOWER to win games. To have restricted their basic trooper to a 12" range and average BS just goes counter to the whole design philosophy. The Dark Eldar are a great example of effective precision firpower. Give that back to the Eldar. We dont want a mirror image of the DE codex, just make the units that are designed to shoot effective at shooting. And make the hand to hand unit effective as well. They dont have to be overpowering, just give them a fighting chance.

Just a few thoughts..

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Yeah guys, I think the new Eldar codex will be well written and yes they will get some cool new units, but lets be honest with each other...Unless the Shuriken Catapult is upgraded, the army will still play the same way...gang up on my enemy and overwhelm him with firepower. Now, I know thats the name of the game in general..force your opponent to fail his saves by massing wounds on him, I just hate seeing the look in my opponents eyes when 2 10 strong DA units roll up and blast his marines into smithereens. It seems to be a little too much of a "pendulum" (spelling?) army. Its either ALL or NOTHING.

Dire Avengers are actually fine where they are. No other troop in the game has a 2-3 Shot Assault Weapon at 18". Guardians, not so much. If the whispers of Corsairs bleeding into Craftworld are true, Guardians may get their lasblasters back and that'll be fine.

Eldar have always been about mass quantities of shots both big and small. Old Starcannons fired three AP2 shots. Scatter lasers and Warp Spider rifles shoot six str6 shots. Dark Reapers fire two missiles each with their launchers. The Sun
Pretty much everything in the army fires two shots. In the case of the Spider Exarch or the Hawk Exarch, they fire a million shots. Everything that doesn't fire multiple shots either is a pistol/sidearm or has funky rules (Vibro, Distortion, Lance, Prism Focus, etc)

I've always seen Eldar as the army of "Their Arrogance is only matched by their Firepower".
Orks have tons of bodies what fire a lot of shots and miss most. Tyranids have a lot of expendable bodies, some of them with guns. Imperial Guard have lots of bodies with heavy weapon backup.
Eldar fill the niche of small number of bodies with multiple and/or quality shots.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Dire Avengers are actually fine where they are. No other troop in the game has a 2-3 Shot Assault Weapon at 18"

Devilgants, which would give you a hit per 6.6 points spent vs Dire Avengers hit per 9 points spent. And the niche of small number of models doesn't work out so great at 3 toughness with a non-MEQ save.

I think Dire Avengers were fine in 5th, but the Rapid Fire buff really hurt them. They no longer can harass Rapid Fire armies, and will take a serious beating before being able to respond in turn.

Ork big shootas are 3 shot
Ork Shootas are 2 shot

Both are assault.

Ork Shoota Boyz are BS2 AP6. They're meant to miss in large numbers.

Tyranid Devilgaunts are BS3 AP- on a body with a 6+ save. They're meant to be average and they're great for it.

Dire Avengers are BS4, fire AP5 shots, and are on a body with a 4+ save (they get an armor save against bolters). They're as accurate as a troop could be and their role is to pour out tons of bullets.

Their niche in the game is fine. They just need to be updated to be able to stand up to the power creep.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Ork Shoota Boyz are BS2 AP6. They're meant to miss in large numbers.

Tyranid Devilgaunts are BS3 AP- on a body with a 6+ save. They're meant to be average and they're great for it.

Dire Avengers are BS4, fire AP5 shots, and are on a body with a 4+ save (they get an armor save against bolters). They're as accurate as a troop could be and their role is to pour out tons of bullets.

Their niche in the game is fine. They just need to be updated to be able to stand up to the power creep.

Yeah that's a pretty terrible comparison.

Shoota boys are also WS4/T4/A2 Furious Charge and cost HALF as much. Meaning they can dish out more damage in melee and have twice the number of bodies.

Termagaunts easily get Fearless and unlock a MC as a troops choice who will on average pump out 40+ more of those lil' beasties. Oh and did I mention how cheap they are? For the price of 5 DA you can get 12 Gaunts.

However, all of these comparisons are a Specialist Army to a horde army, so neither of the arguments carry complete truth.

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
but lets be honest with each other...Unless the Shuriken Catapult is upgraded, the army will still play the same way...gang up on my enemy and overwhelm him with firepower.

You say that as though that was not how the Eldar have played since their earliest days. Way back in 2nd edition, my entire strategy was "utilize Eldar speed to keep my army in cover and keep my opponent unaware of my plans, then suddenly converge on whatever it was I needed to destroy, destroy it, and then let my army spread out again." Complaining about Eldar ganging up on the enemy strikes me as a bit like complaining about Orks being numerous but unskilled.

 felixander wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Ork Shoota Boyz are BS2 AP6. They're meant to miss in large numbers.

Tyranid Devilgaunts are BS3 AP- on a body with a 6+ save. They're meant to be average and they're great for it.

Dire Avengers are BS4, fire AP5 shots, and are on a body with a 4+ save (they get an armor save against bolters). They're as accurate as a troop could be and their role is to pour out tons of bullets.

Their niche in the game is fine. They just need to be updated to be able to stand up to the power creep.

Yeah that's a pretty terrible comparison.

Shoota boys are also WS4/T4/A2 Furious Charge and cost HALF as much. Meaning they can dish out more damage in melee and have twice the number of bodies.

Termagaunts easily get Fearless and unlock a MC as a troops choice who will on average pump out 40+ more of those lil' beasties. Oh and did I mention how cheap they are? For the price of 5 DA you can get 12 Gaunts.

However, all of these comparisons are a Specialist Army to a horde army, so neither of the arguments carry complete truth.

Taken in a vacuum, yes, this is a poor comparison.

However, if you would read the conversation, it makes sense.

It was a response to FarseerAndyman's concern that Eldar are about large amounts of shots. And they are. They fire lots of decent-quality bullets with good accuracy. That is their niche in the 40k game.

The rest of what you're talking about is irrelevant.

As a final aside, Devilgaunts (Termies with devourers) are 10pt. We weren't talking about naked Termagaunts.

 -Loki- wrote:

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Give the farseers the ablility to pick their psychic powers...walking into a battle with the wrong powers is stupid...( Well Farseer Ausi, your fighting Orks, so take some psychic powers that target one or two characters...that should work!! )

It's a mechanic of 6th edition. Best get used to it.

Cinematic!

GW Intern: "Hey guys, I looked in every thesaurus on earth like you asked me to, and none of them have 'cinematic' as a synonym of 'random'. Maybe we should take this into account in the next-" BLAM "HERESY!"

codemonkey wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Give the farseers the ablility to pick their psychic powers...walking into a battle with the wrong powers is stupid...( Well Farseer Ausi, your fighting Orks, so take some psychic powers that target one or two characters...that should work!! )

It's a mechanic of 6th edition. Best get used to it.

Cinematic!

GW Intern: "Hey guys, I looked in every thesaurus on earth like you asked me to, and none of them have 'cinematic' as a synonym of 'random'. Maybe we should take this into account in the next-" BLAM "HERESY!"

I was going to question whether GW had interns, then I realized unpaid labor is right up their alley.

As for DA price, the thing is the upgrades to Eldar troops are too expensive.
For example, you count Space Marine TAC at 16 points and Dire Avenger at 12. But even at 10 guys strong with Exarch (which is free for IoM) and Bladestorm (for the arguments sake let's say it equals CT and ATSKNF and possibly grenades) and you're looking at 14+. At 5 guys it's 16+.
If they gave us cheaper / free Exarch (even at full unit) and a discount for powers it would go a long way of balancing the unit price. Plus even smaller units could retain their special abilities and not just be vehicle upgrades.
Add 12 points for sergeant and 15 points for split fire to Long Fangs and suddenly they are not as horribly priced. We have this xenos tax on all our units.

Devastator is a marine with heavy weapon. Assault marine is just a marine with a jumppack.
I don't want this for Eldar units. Giving them all unique skills is the way to go but at those horrible prices the difference between the aspecs is mostly the gun / armour and nothing else.

Good Morning Fellas,

I love the comparisons back and forth.

In regard to the Shuriken Catapult, I guess what Im trying to say is this...

Make the weapon effective in regards to how the army is to be played. If they are a hand to hand army then continue with the short range and overwhelming numbers of average shots ( guardians ) or if they are a shooty army then give it an 18" range just like the DA version and make the DA version 24" rapid fire.

The whole thrust of the discussion is "Make the army effective at what it is supposed to do."

I can just hear the Warseers discussing the forthcoming battle....

"Muster the bakers and carpenters to pilot our most prescious war machines, call forth the Howling Banshees...those Carnifex need to be dispatched and by the way..Make sure the Avatar puts on his bullet proof vest, those termagants are just deadly accurate.."

The army book was written by Gav Thorpe..now we could go on and on about his rules, but he just missed the mark. And Phil Kelley had to follow the mould. The design philosophy under 3rd, 4th and 5th was ineffective. They should play like the Eldar play in BattleFleet Gothic...Fast, lots of accurate firepower and when you finally get ahold of them they just fall apart.

So hopefully Phil will have been given a little more liberty to fix the list. The DE list is terrific and if he follows that path, the Eldar should be pretty good.

I thought Phil Kelly had been quoted as saying he didn't want to be 'the eldar guy' and that he wouldn't be doing the next eldar codex.

Although, since I play Eldar, chaos and space woves...I'd quite like him to...

Phil Kelly has to write the Eldar Codex.
Imagine if we got someone like Cruddace and our codex was made completely unplayable. Sadtime.
Imagine if we had Ward write it and we became so broken it wasn't fun to play anymore. Saddertime.
Imagine if Phil Kelly wrote our codex again and we had an awesome but balanced book (again) that would allow us to play specific craftworlds and have variable styles of play. Megaawesomefuntime.

I'm gonna start a "Make Phil Kelly Write the Next Eldar Codex, Promptly" fund.

PredaKhaine wrote:
I thought Phil Kelly had been quoted as saying he didn't want to be 'the eldar guy' and that he wouldn't be doing the next eldar codex.

Although, since I play Eldar, chaos and space woves...I'd quite like him too...

I think it was right after the DE got released, and he was saying he wanted to do something different next time.

Which he did, In CSM.

With a bit of luck we'll get him back for Eldar and gods willing Orks.

Orks as written by Ward - could be ....um.... interesting..*cough*. He ballsed up OaG for fantasy because he didn't like them.

Orks as written by Cruddace - 50/50 chance of a workable codex, but i'm not holding my breath...