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Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Eskrigian Guard wrote:


So we can run, shoot, ignore armor saves with shuriken catapults on a to wound roll of 6, with our super cheap guardians?...



Bye bye TEQ and MCs

Because nothing says 'dying race' like hoards of suicide beserkers charging at you.

There's the real reason the Eldar are dying race. Guardian Armour and military doctrine.

Heh, maybe Ynnead is close to manifesting and across all the craftworlds, a collective cry of yolo was heard...

Don't Eldar Titans also need a vast host of spirits in their Wraithbone core? So their pilots aren't exactly flying solo.

 Enigma wrote:
Didn't think of that... seem like daddy has some bad news when he gets home then

About the wraith knight pilot fluff: Maybe the Wraith knight is supposed to be used by titan pilots who've lost their twin in battle? Instead of continue fighting in revenant or phantom, they can fight together in a mini-titan that's infused with the siblings spirit?
Just throwing out ideas here (kind of like how GW does ^^)

Haha

Yeah it does say in the description that the live pilot is really really angry so maybe he just chooses to stay with his dead brother for honour and revenge (and a bit of love).

 Redemption wrote:
Don't Eldar Titans also need a vast host of spirits in their Wraithbone core? So their pilots aren't exactly flying solo.

Depends on whether you go by the old Titan background. The reference to twins often piloting pairs of Revenants in the FW Titan stuff is a reference to this, as is the Wraithknight's thing about twins. However, by the old Eldar Titan background, if a twin died, their soul went into the Titan with the living one then spending much of their time in the Titan in order to be with them.

If you go by this, then if the twin died, the other should STILL be piloting a Titan, with its twin inside. To downgrade from a Titan down to a Knight seems a bit illogical given that FW Titans still have spirit stones.

The only possible workaround is if the Wraithknight was for those pairs of twins that were not of the Titan Clans already and therefore not eligible to pilot Eldar Titans in the first place. However it still seems odd to design a piece of military equipment for a niche demographic unless there is some sort of purpose or advantage to it. It's like designing a fighter plane that can only be piloted by red haired people.

For a dying race, the Eldar sure have a lot of twins...

THIS IS GARBAGE!!!!

the first army I played when I got into 40K was Eldar. Even while out of country, I was able to purchase a sizable eldar army (around 1750 points) for $356.98... using the same models for price inflation (and atrocious business tactics like 5 DA per box) it would now cost me $498.99... what effin effity eff eff, GW? If you are truly planning to tank your business at the end of this fiscal year, do so without your customers money... having been a strong supporter of their product for so many years now, and they continuously spit in the face of customers everywhere since the release of 6th edition making us feel like a bunch of dumb sheep for buying their outrageously priced products at list price while the rest of the worlds gaming systems keep advancing forward? "Best Miniatures in the World" my ass!

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
For a dying race, the Eldar sure have a lot of twins...

Actually they don't. In the old Eldar Titan background, twins and triplets were said to be rare, and for some reason the Eldar Titan Clans had more of them. This was back in the day when Eldar Phantom Titans needed twins or triplets to pilot them, and the spirits of the dead went into the Titans, making them literally a family operation. That gave some sort of rationale for limitation in Eldar Titan numbers.

The problem only crops up since the FW release of their Phantom did away with this requirement and had their Phantom piloted by a single living Eldar albeit aided by spirit stones in the Titan. It removed the bottleneck of requiring a specific limited demographic as pilots, which the sheer size of the Titan might justify. However if Phantoms and Revenants can now be piloted by single Eldar with nothing said about the identity of the souls in those spirit stones, the oddity of the Wraithknight still having those twin requirements stands out. In short, if the bigger ones don't need it anymore, why the smaller Wraithknight?

Iracundus wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
For a dying race, the Eldar sure have a lot of twins...

Actually they don't. In the old Eldar Titan background, twins and triplets were said to be rare, and for some reason the Eldar Titan Clans had more of them. This was back in the day when Eldar Phantom Titans needed twins or triplets to pilot them, and the spirits of the dead went into the Titans, making them literally a family operation. That gave some sort of rationale for limitation in Eldar Titan numbers.

The problem only crops up since the FW release of their Phantom did away with this requirement and had their Phantom piloted by a single living Eldar albeit aided by spirit stones in the Titan. It removed the bottleneck of requiring a specific limited demographic as pilots, which the sheer size of the Titan might justify. However if Phantoms and Revenants can now be piloted by single Eldar with nothing said about the identity of the souls in those spirit stones, the oddity of the Wraithknight still having those twin requirements stands out. In short, if the bigger ones don't need it anymore, why the smaller Wraithknight?

because its a immoral business practice to sell more models... dont like the fluff making customers feel like they should be making a creative army? rewrite the fluff so they have to buy the biggest baddest stuff just because... look at newcrons, look at chaos, look at DA, look at tau... a bagillion new things jump out of nowhere with new fluff stating that they were always there, we just never caught glimpse till now?

Iracundus wrote:
However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited.l

Okay, so it's your assumption that there is no limit to what the Eldar can manufacture.

Not to mention Eldar culture is highly reliant on individual predisposition - not every Eldar can become an Aspect or a Knight pilot. Most Guardians will never be anything else not because they don't want them to be better equipped and trained, but because they can't be better equipped and trained.

 WarlordRob117 wrote:
a bagillion new things jump out of nowhere with new fluff stating that they were always there, we just never caught glimpse till now?

Let's be serious here. If GW confined themselves to re-releasing the same established units over and over again, they'd get ripped a new one for being uncreative.

Eldar are the coolest! Can't Wait!!

Well... that might be my Ork army going on sale.

Sorry, but I may be jumping on the bandwagon.

What's the saying... can't beat them, join them?

I knew the wraithknight would have a 3-digit price tag. I fething knew it.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited.l

Okay, so it's your assumption that there is no limit to what the Eldar can manufacture.

Go ahead then and cite some GW sources showing limitation. The only limitation given so far in canon is the fact a Bonesinger has to sing it into existence, so there is the need for a Bonesinger and sufficient time. Some of the Eldar weapons like Firepikes are referenced as being ancient artifacts and presumably therefore their manufacturing process is lost, but there isn't anything specific mentioned about Eldar Titans, tanks, or other superheavies being limited any more than there is anything said about shuriken catapults being limited.

If you want positing limitation, the burden of proof is on you since that is the positive claim. One can also claim it is just an assumption there are no invisible purple unicorns in 40K, but the burden on proof would be on the person claiming there are.

The problem isn't GW releasing new things or making additions. The problem is GW making ill-thought out additions without considering the past background, or outright trampling over the past background.

Iracundus wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited.l

Okay, so it's your assumption that there is no limit to what the Eldar can manufacture.

Go ahead then and cite some GW sources showing limitation. The only limitation given so far in canon is the fact a Bonesinger has to sing it into existence, so there is the need for a Bonesinger and sufficient time. Some of the Eldar weapons like Firepikes are referenced as being ancient artifacts and presumably therefore their manufacturing process is lost, but there isn't anything specific mentioned about Eldar Titans, tanks, or other superheavies being limited any more than there is anything said about shuriken catapults being limited.

If you want positing limitation, the burden of proof is on you since that is the positive claim. One can also claim it is just an assumption there are no invisible purple unicorns in 40K, but the burden on proof would be on the person claiming there are.

Wait a minute...if you are the one claiming there is no limit on manufacturing, shouldn't the burden of proof be on you?

 Da Weirdboy wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited.l

Okay, so it's your assumption that there is no limit to what the Eldar can manufacture.

Go ahead then and cite some GW sources showing limitation. The only limitation given so far in canon is the fact a Bonesinger has to sing it into existence, so there is the need for a Bonesinger and sufficient time. Some of the Eldar weapons like Firepikes are referenced as being ancient artifacts and presumably therefore their manufacturing process is lost, but there isn't anything specific mentioned about Eldar Titans, tanks, or other superheavies being limited any more than there is anything said about shuriken catapults being limited.

If you want positing limitation, the burden of proof is on you since that is the positive claim. One can also claim it is just an assumption there are no invisible purple unicorns in 40K, but the burden on proof would be on the person claiming there are.

Wait a minute...if you are the one claiming there is no limit on manufacturing, shouldn't the burden of proof be on you?

No, because the existence of limitations is the positive claim. Just as the burden of proof is not on the person claiming there are no invisible purple unicorns in 40K, but rather on the person claiming there are. There are many suppositions that cannot be proven false, but which have no evidence for their existence. Are we then to go by that there are invisible purple unicorns, intangible spaghetti monsters and all manner of other things that are not definitively disproven? Even the simple statement: "I am omnipotent" cannot be conclusively proven false because the fall back explanation is "I chose not to exert my omnipotent powers.". Are we then to believe this person is omnipotent just because it cannot be disproven?

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

for an example of this line of flawed reasoning.

The only known canonical limitations we are given regarding Eldar manufacturing is the requirement of Bonesingers and time. Some particular items appear to be artifacts with the means of manufacture lost, but there are no such statements in regard to Eldar Titans. Even in the cases where the method was lost, it appears to be a matter of knowledge of procedure rather than material limitations, as shown by FW's Imperial Armour 12, which depicts among other things the Craftworld of Mymeara conducting a transfer of technology to Alaitoc in return for aid.

All i wants is pics of the new wraithguard, is that too much to ask? Someone must have seen them and had a phone in their pocketses

Should be some tiny blurry pics popping up anytime now

I got to place an order on the staff I want for eldar.
Flyer is 60€, Wraithknight is 90€, Wraithguard is 50€ and codex is 35€... I am a happy panda but prices are out of this planet :(

I cant believe a race so advanced as the Eldar dont have clone technology to make twins or triplets of any newborn child.

Well atleast thats more likely than the absurd idea that a single craftworld would have limitless supply of wraithbone in the basement.

 Fayric wrote:
I cant believe a race so advanced as the Eldar dont have clone technology to make twins or triplets of any newborn child.

Well atleast thats more likely than the absurd idea that a single craftworld would have limitless supply of wraithbone in the basement.

Wraithbone is solidified warp energy and this is given as such in the 2nd edition Eldar Codex. It grows and repairs itself on its own given time, and it draws power into itself through the warp, which is how the Craftworld derives its main power. This power is then converted to more conventional forms such as light and heat. (p. 5, 2nd edition Eldar Codex)

The Eldar novel Path of the Seer also is in line with this Codex information as it portrays the crafting of a sensor module for an Eldar ship. It is sung into existence by a team of Bonesingers, and the character observing using her psychic witch sight sees the pattern of the thing forming in the warp before the thing takes shape physically. Thus there is no limitation to wraithbone manufacture beyond having sufficiently skilled Eldar to create and shape it and the time to do so.

 Enigma wrote:

megatrons2nd over at Warseer wrote:One of my local guys said that what he heard for the Iyanden book is it has rules for attacking a Craftworld.

Wait... didn't we get enough of that grox-crap from Path of the warrior?
I have so far never heard of any attack on a craftworld that's been presented as remotely reasonable -.-

Except that Iyanden was attacked by a major hive fleet, which is why they make such extensive use of wraithguard and wraithlords. Not only was it attacked, but it was nearly destroyed.

Well wraithbone is a plant ... Like weed...

If you're someone who is about to leak pictures from White Dwarf please use a camera from the last DECADE. I don't understand how so many leaked pictures are of such poor quality given camera technology..

Man o man wraithknight!
*clicks add to cart.
Cart total $115.00
*clicks empty cart.

/sigh.

 Fayric wrote:
I cant believe a race so advanced as the Eldar dont have clone technology to make twins or triplets of any newborn child.

Well atleast thats more likely than the absurd idea that a single craftworld would have limitless supply of wraithbone in the basement.

Maybe something about all eldar being psychic to some degree hampers cloning. We know the dark eldar have and use cloning tech but their psychic abilities have withered from disuse.

Because the camera is a button on his shirt in order to avoid detection from K-G(W)-B employees.

Any chance this thread can go back to being about Codex Eldar news and rumors?

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Any chance this thread can go back to being about Codex Eldar news and rumors?

Nothing to talk about :(

no sources at the moment. Already talked about everything we already know.

Powerguy wrote:

- The Wraithknight is insanely huge, it is literally twice the height of a Wraithlord, and the sword option it can take is basically the size of a Wraithlord as well. It can take up to 2 Suncannons, which are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast or up to 2 Wraithlances(?) which are presumably the heavy anti tank option. Sword replaces one of the big guns I think (they are arm mounted like the Titans). This is in addition to the two shoulder mounted heavy weapons (I saw Scatters and Starcannons, so presumably the normal range of heavy weapons are available)
-

No, no, remember, you don't play Eldar, it's expensive as frakk, you don't need this model... you don't need an insanely huge model and make a mech army together with your riptide...

I weep for my wallet. I want to be able to resist this buy. So beautiful

Iracundus wrote:
No, because the existence of limitations is the positive claim.

Holy feth, you even tried to pull a Russell on me. Look dude, this has nothing to do with burden of proof. We're not talking about the real world. Even if we would, your claim that Eldar are omnipotent and can conjure titans out of thin air is the claim than needs some support, unlike my assumption that they follow the same rules each and every other race in the setting is bound by - limited by power and material consumption, as well as manpower. I know which one is more probable.

I see your teapot and rise you by a razor. Now we're both equally ridiculous.