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 Ovion wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

They don't need FNP. T7 is fine. As for "accepting it", what other choice do you have? Stop playing?

"T7 is fine?" lol, not with the current wraithlord loadouts.

Stop playing, may of us already have

T7 T8? Doesn't really matter to me. My Dark Eldar wound on a 4+. As for current "load outs", what are you on about? Regardless, they will probably get knocked down to T7 so they can get all the WAAC players to buy the Wraithknight. Good day.

Our splinter weaponry wounds on a 4+, but for things like Darklight Weaponry to drop a save, or non-poisoned CC attacks, it makes a difference. Str3 can't hurt T7/8. Str8 wounds on a 3+/4+. Poison's great, but with a 3+ save you need what... 6 shots to cause a wound, on a 2+ 12 shots. with 3 wounds that's 18/36 shots to drop it (24/48 at 4w for a wraithseer). It's still a good whack of fire per model that's needed.

Exactly! T7 with a 3+ is fine. I am amazed at the amount of beardy players that want 2++ with S10 AP1 weapons. If your army relies on T8, that's a crutch.

Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

T6 for a Wraithlord does not make sense.

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

Dark Eldar also use bits of scrap and exotic materials to build their stuff, CWE do not, they use Wraithbone, a far stronger substance. That is why its T8 and not 7 or 6. The stuff is used to construct Craftworlds, of course it is going to be durable.

 Morachi wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

Dark Eldar also use bits of scrap and exotic materials to build their stuff, CWE do not, they use Wraithbone, a far stronger substance. That is why its T8 and not 7 or 6. The stuff is used to construct Craftworlds, of course it is going to be durable.

Yeah, a Talos is a bulky load of flesh with armour plates covering... some of it. (also - not bits of scrap, that's Orks. DE machine their stuff well with the finest slave labour.)
A Wraithlord is a solid construct of psychicly motivated armour and energy fields.

It's like saying, an elephant is bulkier than than lampost, so the elephant must be tougher - but I know which one will succumb to gunfire first.

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

A Talos has dangly bits, muscle,bone, sinew, metal, and hard carapace at places. It's basically comparible to a T6 Tyranid MC with enhanced drugs and add-ons.

A Wraithlord is made out of pure material that tanks are made from. It has no skin or blood vessels or muscle or anything. It is just made out of pure tank-parts with minimal moving parts.

If you blow a hole into a Talos or a Tyranid MC, you're going to rupture a blood vessel or fracture a bone. If you blow a hole into a Wraithlord, it'll be little more than an accessory. Even Necrons have wires and such that leave them open to disruption. Toughness is the ability to shrug off wounds, and Wraithlords have no discernable anatomy or weak points. Every part of them is made from the same stuff that the Eldar use on their main battle tanks and titans.

 Ovion wrote:
It's like saying, an elephant is bulkier than than lampost, so the elephant must be tougher - but I know which one will succumb to gunfire first.

That's probably the best comparison I've ever heard.

T8 made them immune to S4. That's the point.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
3) Yes they have high prices. This is a luxury / hobby you don't need to play it.

The issue is not, nor has it ever been, that the prices are high. The issue is that the prices are arbitrarily high. There is no reason for Dire Avengers to double in price when the codex comes out. The models did not after all, double in quality. Likewise, the Wraithknight is vastly over-priced compared to what other companies that produce plastic models give for that price. GW gets away with making their prices arbitrarily high and out-of-touch with what other plastic model makers produce because people keep ignoring the vast disparity between price and value and believe GW's hype about being the "Porsche of miniatures". Unfortunately for GW, the number of people who are willing to put up with their nonsense gets smaller every year.

Absolutionis wrote:The head does look better when painted a full solid color rather than the 'deal with it' glasses, but in that picture, it looks really tipsy in both meanings of the word.

Thokt wrote: WK looks like he's about to fall over.

Yeah, the leg in the photo is really shiny/dark so the fact that it's got quite a significant bend at the knee is kind of lost.

What i want to know is, with all these armies getting masssive walkers / MCs (Dreadknight, Riptide, Wraithknight etc.) where the hell is my 9' tall plastic bloodthirster! lol

Wow, the Wraithguard are bigger than it seemed from the previous pics. This is really testing my will to start an army for 40k again. The Wraithknight is actually too big for my liking. A Bright Stallion still would've been cooler, and I'm wondering if a realistic conversion of one that counts as a WK could be done without costing a fortune. That head need to be supersized in either case.

 Eldar Craft wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:

 Eldar Craft wrote:
At least the jet bikes appear to have updated riders. instead of the ancient rebreather pilots.

Check the "Windrider" picture. It's still the rebreather-KKK-leathercoat guys.

I'll have to check it out. I didn't see it on the front page but i haven't checked in a while. Man that sucks. Was hoping to see them get some love.

Maybe if the two new codexes have zero photos of jetbikes (just artwork) we can take that as a sign that new jetbikes might come out with another book? That might be stretching a bit...

Further confirmation that the "new" Dire Avengers boxed set will include only 5 figures:

Ovion wrote:

 Morachi wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

Dark Eldar also use bits of scrap and exotic materials to build their stuff, CWE do not, they use Wraithbone, a far stronger substance. That is why its T8 and not 7 or 6. The stuff is used to construct Craftworlds, of course it is going to be durable.

Yeah, a Talos is a bulky load of flesh with armour plates covering... some of it. (also - not bits of scrap, that's Orks. DE machine their stuff well with the finest slave labour.)
A Wraithlord is a solid construct of psychicly motivated armour and energy fields.

It's like saying, an elephant is bulkier than than lampost, so the elephant must be tougher - but I know which one will succumb to gunfire first.

But that's not because a lamp post is tougher than an elephant; it just doesn't have bleeding vital organs on the inside. An elephant would tear a lamp post down with little effort. How much damage is an average lamp post going to do to an elephant, on the other hand?

Cute quip, but a horribly flawed example.

JOHIRA wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
3) Yes they have high prices. This is a luxury / hobby you don't need to play it.

The issue is not, nor has it ever been, that the prices are high. The issue is that the prices are arbitrarily high. There is no reason for Dire Avengers to double in price when the codex comes out. The models did not after all, double in quality. Likewise, the Wraithknight is vastly over-priced compared to what other companies that produce plastic models give for that price. GW gets away with making their prices arbitrarily high and out-of-touch with what other plastic model makers produce because people keep ignoring the vast disparity between price and value and believe GW's hype about being the "Porsche of miniatures". Unfortunately for GW, the number of people who are willing to put up with their nonsense gets smaller every year.

First of all, no one buys because they believe the Porsche analogy. They buy because they think the model looks freaking sweet, and/or they play the army and want to add that piece to it. Sadly for the complainers, GW's volume of sales has increased, so the profits they are seeing isn't from the prices alone.

GW's plastic technology is better than any other in the industry. That is NOT debatable. The detail is sharper than PP's resin Colossals; far easier to assemble and trasnport too. Oh, and it comes with loads of extra bits and makes more than one, static-pose figure. And it's priced similarly for being a massive model.

Figure-for-figure, GW's models are of a higher quality, and the prices are pretty much the same across the industry. The problem isn't price of individual model: it's the start-up cost. The sticker shock is getting to you, but that's because a codex model hasn't been that expensive before. Then again, a codex model hasn't been that large either, so it makes sense.

I'm sure some bright spark will be along soon to tell us how we're all being unreasonable by thinking the change to Dire Avengers isn't justified.

Yeah, I saw that. Makes me a sad panda. My used DA went up in value though.

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

LOL great point! Did Wraithlords used to be T7 at one point?

 brassangel wrote:
Sadly for the complainers, GW's volume of sales has increased, so the profit isn't benefiting from the prices in general.

Citation required.

 brassangel wrote:
GW's plastic is better than any other from another company. That is NOT debatable.

No it's not. Yes it is. In that order.

 brassangel wrote:
Figure-for-figure, GW's models are of a higher quality, and the prices are pretty much the same across the industry.

Again, citation required. You're not making any real points, you're just regurgitating the kool-aid you appear to be drinking.

 brassangel wrote:
The problem isn't price of individual model: it's the start-up cost.

Cool. And the Dire Avengers have been out for half a decade. What part of their 'start up costs' are not covered yet in that time, so much so that they need to half the model count in the box without halving the price?

Does anyone know if the new 5 figure Dire Avenger box is different than the current 10 figure box?

For the exarch, the White Dwarf photos say "This includes two alternative heads and several exciting wargear options, including a lethal power halberd, wrist-mounted shuriken catapults, a back banner and an intricately detailed shimmershield."

Is this any different than the current box?

Nope. It's just one sprue rather than two. For the same cost. It's the single most blatant example of price gouging in 40K in recent memory (since the Cadians went from 20 to 10 I believe).

With all the models in the Eldar range that need updating and only the "Wraith_____" stuff actually being done, why aren't they just calling this "CODEX IYANDEN"? Sucks for you guys hoping for updated jetbikes.

Nocturnus wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

LOL great point! Did Wraithlords used to be T7 at one point?

Well, they used to be vehicles. But as far as I remember, they have always been T8.

 Ovion wrote:

 Morachi wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

Dark Eldar also use bits of scrap and exotic materials to build their stuff, CWE do not, they use Wraithbone, a far stronger substance. That is why its T8 and not 7 or 6. The stuff is used to construct Craftworlds, of course it is going to be durable.

Yeah, a Talos is a bulky load of flesh with armour plates covering... some of it. (also - not bits of scrap, that's Orks. DE machine their stuff well with the finest slave labour.)
A Wraithlord is a solid construct of psychicly motivated armour and energy fields.

It's like saying, an elephant is bulkier than than lampost, so the elephant must be tougher - but I know which one will succumb to gunfire first.

Energy fields? Really? As H. points out T8 makes them immune to bolters. That's the reason people's panties are in a bunch ( if it even happens). They don't want to lose their Wraithlord to tactical marines.

People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of warmachine gargants. They're only 15 dollars less but considerably smaller.

GW sucks fat ones for a lot of reasons....this is not one of them,

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
Sadly for the complainers, GW's volume of sales has increased, so the profit isn't benefiting from the prices in general.

Citation required.

Seconded.

I've seen all sorts of arguments around whether volume has dropped or not, but I think this is the first time I've seen someone claim that sales have increased?

BrotherVord wrote:
People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of other GW large walker models. They're only 25 dollars less but are somewhat smaller.

GW sucks fat ones for a lot of reasons....this is certainly one of them,

Fixed that for you.

BrotherVord wrote:
People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of warmachine gargants. They're only 15 dollars less but considerably smaller.

GW sucks fat ones for a lot of reasons....this is not one of them,

If you mean Colossals you're flat out wrong, I've seen a couple in the resin and they're waay more substantial.

Please, please, please don't make this another GW vs PP thing. We can find enough price inconsistency just by looking at the GW range. Why bring anyone else into it?

 azreal13 wrote:

BrotherVord wrote:
People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of warmachine gargants. They're only 15 dollars less but considerably smaller.

GW sucks fat ones for a lot of reasons....this is not one of them,

If you mean Colossals you're flat out wrong, I've seen a couple in the resin and they're waay more substantial.

Yep. While they're only 5-6" vs 9", they're beefy boys and more than make up in mass what they lack in height against it. Plus, they're solid resin and metal vs hollow plastic.

That Ulthwe Wraithknight has got to be the worst posed mini (can you even call it that?) I've ever seen. Found it funny that the army includes the original Fire Dragons as well. I really hope Seer Councils are back.