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I think the problem wasn't that complaint about lack of communication, but the comment about "half truths."

I backed both reaper bones and Mantic KoW. Both had problems (reaper with timing, KoW with quality). Both had haters and defenders. Pretty much everybody on both sides had great points.

What gets to me, and I presume other posters is well, is when the commentary crosses from "here's what sucks about this" to "Reaper/Mantic is screwing with us and trying to defraud."

Presuming intent is something that's very hard to do, and most people aren't very good.



On a related note, massive kickstarters are something that everybody is new it. They are, it turns out, a lot more complex than people realized. We're seeing companies change their approach, because they realize that when you treble the scope of your project, people still hold you to the original deadline. And while there is more money, you can't always buy speed. Or, as mantic showed, there's a reason some sculptors and artists are readily available.

Yeah - you want issues, go look at the Dredd Kickstarter. Its a mess. Mongoose has been outright incompetent and lied multiple times about what has shipped (especially to US backers), and when they are going to deliver information. Literally for two months Matthew has said, "we're going to tell you what should have by now" - and hasn't. And every update or post repeats that.

Reaper, on the other hand, has been much more reliable in their communications, and have (mostly) taken it on the chin when they've erred or things haven't gone to plan. If they say they've been having USPS issues, I'd generally believe that, especially given the state of the US govt agencies these days.

Bryan Stiltz less than a minute ago

Shelves restocked. Cleaning done. We are beginning to pull ROW orders now.

Can someone direct me to the book/ game PDF that was part of the project?

Think it was a scenario book or something, but can't find it.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Can someone direct me to the book/ game PDF that was part of the project?

Think it was a scenario book or something, but can't find it.

I asked about it here a few months ago, to no response.

Someone end me a PM in about 6 hours and I'll check for it. I didn't download it at the time because I didn't have my computer set up... I do have that set up now.

If you want the Swords and Wizardry book and the novel by Matt Forbeck, just go to reapermini.com/ks , put in your email address from your KS account, click the link in your email, and they'll be at the bottom of the page.

Got my Bones today. Out of curiosity, I played around to determine the extent of WSF.

Since Wehrkind did a fantastic job illustrating the issue on the smaller models, I didn't bother. Instead I went straight to Cthulhu and Kaladrax.

First of all, both models are individually boxed with custom artwork showing the model on the packaging. Really nice.

I dry fit built Cthulhu. I love him.

I was worried about the belly seam, but it is actually really minor and doesn't look out of place. As for WSF, I can confirm there is a definite texture/bendiness difference between the tentacles and the wings, which seem to be the same thickness. The head tentacles are very, VERY bendy. The wings are much more rigid. Regardless, my dry fitted Cthulhu is absolutely amazing.

As for Kaladrax. His box is also customized, but is significantly larger than any other boxed mini. There is a clear scale change. When I look at Kaladrax, he just doesn't fit with the scale of everything else Bones. I know there was some scale issues on manufacture, and it shows. He doesn't look right.

All that said, Kaladrax is still an awesome mini. All pieces are very rigid, except the head and tail tip. They have the flexibility issue. Which is very out of place considering the solidity and rigidity of the rest of the mini. The 2 hip bones are in between in rubbery-ness between the head and everything else.

For both Kaladrax and Cthulhu, the contrast in rigidity between the head and everything else feels odd. It feels out of place. But it doesn't appear to affect the functionality, or critically for me, the paintability of the models.

edit - My Kaladrax has 2 left arms, no right arms, and the right leg is hanging off in space... will be contacting Reaper over that. Also, I didn't receive any extras, but my packing list does have a note stating, in essence, don't contact us if you got extras... its a bonus.

I think the right rear leg hanging out into space is a feature, not a bug. I was really confused at first too, then finally found a pic showing his right side, and that had the right rear leg off in space too.

I am thinking when I finally put it together for realz, that is getting the hot water treatment.

 Polonius wrote:
I think the problem wasn't that complaint about lack of communication, but the comment about "half truths."

I backed both reaper bones and Mantic KoW. Both had problems (reaper with timing, KoW with quality). Both had haters and defenders. Pretty much everybody on both sides had great points.

What gets to me, and I presume other posters is well, is when the commentary crosses from "here's what sucks about this" to "Reaper/Mantic is screwing with us and trying to defraud."

Presuming intent is something that's very hard to do, and most people aren't very good.

Exactly - and that is also why I still stand by calling out the term PARANOID! about somebody that seems to have taken the view of 'I do not know what is going on so I will call everything that I am told lies.' Which is a fine demonstration of paranoia....

There has been a lack of communication - I will agree with that entirely. There is a reason for it, but there is a lack of communication that could have been dealt with by, well, communicating.

But as far as I have seen the 'Half truths' have been the fabrications of disgruntled and impatient peoples. In short - the 'half truths' are themselves the only 'half truths'.

The claim that the USPS not sending the truck must be 'BS' - not just a 'half truth', but itself complete BS. Fantabulation to fill an information void. The information void is real, but the manner in which that void is filled is beyond suspect.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* For that matter I was also part of the Mantic Kickstarter... while the miniatures are not perfect, I have no real problem with them.

Like Bones they are miniatures for use, not for display -I use a different gauge for what I want in a display piece and a play piece. Though I will admit that it is nice when the same piece can be used for both. (A display piece does not need to withstand the stresses of in game use, so things like delicate joins means a good deal less than it does for a piece that is likely to see use by a sweaty twelve year old.)

Thanks for the thorough update, Gymnogyps!

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

silent25 wrote:
Didn't see it posted here yet, but a couple locals who got their Bones figures had a nasty surprise priming the figures. Dupli Color Automotive primer melts the plastic. They primed the models because they didn't have 100% faith in the "No priming necessary" claim.

Fortunately the figs primed weren't majors ones and were test models. They seem to take GW/Vallejo paints fine. Fiddled with a painted fig and didn't see any rubbing or cracking.

Also played with the Dracolich skull and agree it felt like a play toy. Too flexible for my tastes.

Umm... I use Dupli Color for priming Bones - I have since the line first came out. Including the teeny tiny kobold miniatures.

I have never had it melt any figures, including any of my Bones miniatures.

I have used Dupli Color Black, Grey, and White sandable primers to no ill effect as well as the colored primers from The Army Painter.

The Auld Grump

Strange. Not sure what to make of it then. Will double check with the painter who told me that and confirm it was Dupli Color. One other possible cause might be tied to chemical composition in the figures varying. Was reading on another forum where the flexibility varies highly between identical figs. One person had one fig which was completely floppy, but a friend had the same one, but was almost rigid. Sounds like the Chinese company that produced these was inconsistent in the casting material or had poor quality control. That could also account for some people having varying accounts with priming/painting the figs. This should hopefully become a moot point as Reaper is moving everything in house and will have better control of the product.

It may well depend on how heavy handed you are with the spray.

A light coat of paint will allow the solvent that is melting the Bones PVC to evaporate fast before it get's a chance to really cause trouble

Drown the mini in paint and you'll trap a solvent under a layer of 'setting' paint, giving it plenty of time to start melting the mini and causing trouble

Silent, which forum is it where people are discussing it? I would like to link the Reaper Forums thread to it.

So, my Bones arrived today. Holy gak is that a lot more than I thought it would be. And the size of some of them! Seriously happy with the purchase.

As promised, here is Kaladrax's head with Vallejo Acrylic-Polyurethane Surface Primer on it:



I used Black, and German Dark Yellow. White seemed pointless, and I cannot find my dark grey anywhere.

I tried each of them first without cleaning, and both beaded up a bit but still covered. I then washed the head with warm soapy water and re-applied. Both went on silky smooth. What you see in the pictures is one coat, undiluted. It is adhering very well. I cannot scrape it off with a fingernail...

I will bust out my airbrush and spray some on later next week, but I cannot imagine the results changing very much.

Hope this helps someone.

Off to sort and QC.

~Eric

After spending nearly 2 hours ripping into little plastic bags and shoving minis into a carry case, I have to say that I'm glad these miniatures are as flexible as they are. They all feel solid, except for in the places that you want some flex if you're tossing them in a case or box. I'm used to GW miniatures and so the PVC was concerning until I had it in hand. I've got a lot of heat treating to do on swords, arms and in some cases base-to-leg angle correction, but that's a much better problem o have than cleaning/filling/slammingheadtowall with fine cast or even FW stuff. I got all the dragons and all the giants and their size and detail is fantastic. You could knock someone out with a well aimed fire giant fast ball... And honestly it probably wouldn't do squat to the fire giant.

The size of my painting queue is literally years long, so I have no idea when I'll get around to some of these, but I'm looking forward to seeing some more paint examples and some best practices with bones painting.

Also, I think I'm missing 1 group of IMEF Marines from my package. Is there a Bones KS hotline/email address that's best to contact them about errors/missing stuff?

On your packing list is all the information to report a problem (including your order number), use this page to check product numbers and match figures: www.reapermini.com/kickstarter

 Wehrkind wrote:
I think the right rear leg hanging out into space is a feature, not a bug. I was really confused at first too, then finally found a pic showing his right side, and that had the right rear leg off in space too.

I am thinking when I finally put it together for realz, that is getting the hot water treatment.

Now that you say that, I remember that weird cocked out leg thing being mentioned before, too, but can't for the life of me remember where I saw it.

How could that be a feature unless... He's marking his territory! That's it!

Not sure if I'll bend it back, or add a tree or something for him to rest that foot on. Maybe add a giant fire hydrant looking rock... gotta get his proper arm first.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It may well depend on how heavy handed you are with the spray.

A light coat of paint will allow the solvent that is melting the Bones PVC to evaporate fast before it get's a chance to really cause trouble

Drown the mini in paint and you'll trap a solvent under a layer of 'setting' paint, giving it plenty of time to start melting the mini and causing trouble

That seems reasonable -with the white primer I went for a light dusting - enough to give purchase.

For the black and grey I went for solid colors, but held the mini between a foot and a half and two feet away from the nozzle.

If the model is too close... maybe the solvent is not having a chance to disperse before affecting the model?

 Gymnogyps wrote:

 Wehrkind wrote:
I think the right rear leg hanging out into space is a feature, not a bug. I was really confused at first too, then finally found a pic showing his right side, and that had the right rear leg off in space too.

I am thinking when I finally put it together for realz, that is getting the hot water treatment.

Now that you say that, I remember that weird cocked out leg thing being mentioned before, too, but can't for the life of me remember where I saw it.

How could that be a feature unless... He's marking his territory! That's it!

Not sure if I'll bend it back, or add a tree or something for him to rest that foot on. Maybe add a giant fire hydrant looking rock... gotta get his proper arm first.

Great... now I have this image of using an ArmorCast 'Cinematic Effect' for Kallie marking his territory....



The Auld Grump

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Silent, which forum is it where people are discussing it? I would like to link the Reaper Forums thread to it.

Over at Frothers:
http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44465&start=30

Poster is also claiming figures are stiffening over time.

As to the gettin stiffer over time, how long does it take? Had mine for about a week and I can't tell a difference

 Sinful Hero wrote:
As to the gettin stiffer over time, how long does it take? Had mine for about a week and I can't tell a difference

I think you should probably get your pills from a registered source rather than the internet...

Having messed with Wehrkind's models a bit today, the spongy factor on the Kalandrax's head didn't seem too bad to me (and I also wonder if it was intentional for that one part... which would be odd). Didn't get to see the arm that he had showed being spongy in the video, though.

Also, I agree that while spongy sounds cooler, I think it's important to note it is not porous or sponge-like in that manner... just a little soft. It was more interesting than problematic, from what I saw. In general, though, the detail level on Bones figures and the bendiness of weapons and the like make me think most people will use these as "fodder" type models for RPGs, rather than main additions to their armies. That's probably the intended use anyway, though!

Has anyone from Australia received their bones as of yet?

I have multiple Vampire levels as well as $300 of extras, all of the huge bones.

No email yet though, which is sad

I think that the softer material allows undercuts - the mold does not have any flex, but since the material does then you can still have some minor undercuts.

Paint sticks to the more rubbery version just fine, so I am okay with it...

In fact, it makes me want to sing a little song....

Rubber dragon, you're the one.
You make game time so much fun!
Rubber dragon I am awfully fond of you!
Bobobodeo....

The Auld Grump

 Taarnak wrote:

As promised, here is Kaladrax's head with Vallejo Acrylic-Polyurethane Surface Primer on it:
I will bust out my airbrush and spray some on later next week, but I cannot imagine the results changing very much.

Thanks for that! I was a bit concerned about the Vallejo primer on the "spongey" pieces.

It is plastic, so don't overspray canned aerosol primer. Light, quick coats.

 AntomanElven wrote:
Has anyone from Australia received their bones as of yet?
I have multiple Vampire levels as well as $300 of extras, all of the huge bones.
No email yet though, which is sad

They'll hopefully be sent in the next few days. It depends on whether the truck they've been "waiting for" for 3 weeks magically/suddenly arrives now that the other region's orders are out of the way.

From there, allow 2-3 weeks if sent via Airmail, or more likely 4-8 weeks in the probable case that they are instead sent surface mail (there's a lot of stuff, and their postage savings will be significant, especially after the USPS price rises at the start of the year). So expect your models at the end of August to sometime in September.

No - they are still waiting, as far as I know.

And it is waiting, not 'waiting' with sarcasm quotes.

The Auld Grump

My opinion differs from yours. Deal with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just because you're choosing to accept everything you're told at face value doesn't mean you're magically correct. You are of course welcome to believe anything you like, but the only truth here is that neither of us knows for sure what's really going on, so for you to suppose that you know any more than I do is arrogant and disingenious.

And now, since I've not interacted with you in the past, haven't found your posts in other threads especially interesting and and have not enjoyed conversing with you here, I'm throwing you on ignore. Please feel free to do the same to me and ne'er the twain shall meet again. Cheerio!