Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2012/08/15 20:06:55
Subject: The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
This is probably how I would expand my list. Keep in mind this list isn't set in stone. Also, I do not want to do a full-blown flyer army because I do not believe it would be very fun to play.
NECRON 1750
D-lord - 2+, MSS, ResOrb - 190
5x Warriors - Night Scythe - 165
5x Warriors - Night Scythe - 165
5x Warriors - Night Scythe - 165
5x Warriors - 65
It's been a hectic week. Finally get a chance to read your battle report.
Excellent job against SoB and Biker Marines. Seems like neither list could counter your flyers.
Brutal games against GK and Harliestar. GK did phenomenal shooting your Wraiths and MSU to saturate your Flyers. Shame Destroyer Lord died to Dreadknight.
Excellent game against Frankie. For the most part, you avoided the D-eldar Deathstar and took out easier targets. Once Eldrad and and Fuegan split to contest objectives, the Harlequins were easy targets for the flyers. It was a very close game between you two. After losing his Walkers, Frankie struggled against the flyers.
Loving these Batreps jy2. I may not be posting as much as I used to, but I still get my kicks from reading the reps that come up. Kudos for finding the time so soon after the GT. Will have to try and put similar effort into our Shanghai GT experience.
Looking for games in Shanghai? Send a PM
2012/08/16 06:00:47
Subject: Re:The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
Christian's MSU Grey Knights beat Sam's Foot Sisters of Battle for a perfect 7-0 record (you can see their game here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/469045.page ). After the game against Frankie's Deldar, I am currently 2nd with a 6-1 record. So the very last match of the GT comes down to me against Christian again for all the marbles. We will be playing for 1st and 2nd place. I haven't beaten Christian yet, but there's a first for everything. Though very tired, I was also very much looking forwards to this rematch.
1500 Necrons
I used a slightly tweaked version of my list #3.
Destroyer Lord - Mindshackle Scarabs, Resurrection Orb, Weave - 190
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
3x Henchmen - Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
3x Henchmen - Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
3x Henchmen - Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
3x Henchmen - Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
3x Henchmen - Razorback w/Psybolt Ammo + Searchlights
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dread - 2x TL-autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Christian has brought a very shooty grey knights army. His type of army is what is refered to in the competitive meta as MSU, or multiple-small-units. Basically, the philosophy behind MSU is to take maximum advantage of min-max army configurations. You minimize the squad size and then maximize the number of squads. This brings increased firepower, increased redundancy and target saturation for the opponent. It really emphasizes efficiency of build and maximal firepower. Its main drawbacks? Weak troops who can't really hold objectives well and a high amount of Kill Points, or in this case, Victory Points for the Purge the Alien scenario.
Back in 5th edition, MSU was considered one of the most competitive army builds. The question now is, how well will it hold up in 6th Edition? Is MSU still king, or one of the kings of competitive 40K? Well, so far, my opponent has been wrecking house with a perfect 7-0 record up til now. But now he's about to run into what may be the future of competitive 6th Edition - my scythe-crons.
PRE-GAME THOUGHTS: Wow, this is going to be a very tough game for Christian. The mission was randomly predetermined before our game and we get the mission where his army is weakest....Kill Points (or in this case, Victory Points)! Although I feel somewhat bad that we got this mission (well, just a little), I also feel that you have to be able to deal with it in a tournament environment. Not everything in life is fair. In a tournament, it is all about the matchups and scenarios. You get the sub-optimal matchup and/or scenario, you are just going to have to tough it out and hope for the best. He did it once already in this tournament, winning in a KP mission. Now he's going to have to try to do it again. That is just the risk you take when you bring an extreme army build to a tournament....whether it be a MSU army or a deathstar army or any of the other more extreme armies. Get matched up against your "kryptonite" and the most you can do is to try your best.
Although I feel that I have the advantage in this matchup, I can't really count my opponent out. Firstly, he's already beaten me once in this tournament. Secondly, he won in his other Kill Point game. Third, although MSU armies tend to be KP-heavy, they also usually have enough firepower in their arsenal to beat you despite their KP-handicap. And lastly, this is Christian we are talking about here. If there's anyone who can adapt to an unfavorable condition and overcome, he would be the one. Never count out a cunning and very good general.
Now let me tell you why I think I will win. Firstly, with the exception of my 5-man troops, I have very resilient units. He's got weak ones. Secondly, I will get the alpha strike on him with my flyers (assuming my ground force can withstand his alpha strike on Turn 1). Third, I don't necessarily have to dominate him to win this game. I just need to maintain a slight KP lead. Lastly, I think that I am every bit as cunning as my opponent.
Basically, after a random coin flip, we end up playing on the exact same table as my previous game.
GK deployment. He hides all his henchmen behind the ruins so that all the psybacks are empty.
He puts 1 psyfleman on top of the ruins to get a better line of fire. That is a mistake and I am going to use it against him.
BTW, for his psychic powers, he gets the same 2 exact powers that he got against me the last time we played - re-roll's to hit and 4+ Invuln's for 1 unit.
I deploy 1 unit of wraiths in the opposite corner behind my ruins and out of LOS. I also deploy the annihilation barge and warriors easily out of range of his dreads.
Once again, my strategy here is denial. I am going to force him to come to me.
I try to steal the initiative but without success.
By the ways, every turn Coteaz would successfully cast Prescience on his own unit (that's re-roll's to hit).
He can't see my guys to shoot at them with the exception of his sniper dread, who is unfortunately out of range.
So instead, his dreads run and his vehicles move flat-out.
Necrons 1
Spoiler:
Well, that went pretty well for me. I've just denied his entire army 1 turn of shooty.
Wraiths stay still. Annihilation barge advance to try to draw First Blood.
Warriors make their ways towards the ruins.
My AB draws First Blood as it glances a psyback to death.
GK: 0, Necrons: 2
Grey Knights 2
Spoiler:
GK's advance. Purifiers are running right along my board edge.
I believe every vehicle that cannot fire instead pops smokes, including his 2 dreads on the ground.
On the right flank, he repositions his vehicles to try to get some cover.
The only thing he is able to do with his limited shooting is to kill 1 wraith. His sniper dread does manage to shoot my AB but fails to do anything to it.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
This game is not without controversy.
I only get my wraiths and 1 night scythe in from reserves.
Here I make a seriously blunder. I was planning to multi-assault his 2 purifier rhinos, forgetting that you cannot assault on the turn you come in from reserves.
I also forget about Coteaz's I've Been Expecting You special ability....even though we had talked about it earlier (I blame that on fatigue).
Anyways Coteaz's unit shoots at my wraiths and only causes 1 unsaved Wound despite twin-linked psycannons.
I then call Rob, the TO and judge, over to ask him a question. Rob comes on over and I ask him if the unit in the transport can fire overwatch when my wraiths assault their transport. Rob then reminds me that I cannot assault when coming in from reserves. Doh!
Then Christian starts to resolve I've Been Expecting You on my night scythe, which just happens to be in range of the ability. He proceeds to hit it 4 times on 6's!
But before we could finish the action, it is at this moment where Rob notices something strange and tells us to pause the game while he goes back to check on something. So we wait until he comes back. He then makes a ruling that surprises the both of us.
You can only shoot out of or use psychic shooting attacks through firepoints. Any other special ability that requires LOS cannot be drawn through the firepoints and thusly cannot be used.
Wow. We both were not aware of that. So that means Coteaz could not have used his I've Been Expecting You power to "spot" my wraiths and night scythe.
Which means that they are both ok. That's a bummer for my opponent as he would have most likely taken down my night scythe.
Anyways, we move on. AB gets out of range of his sniper dread. Wraiths spread out and dare his dreadknight to assault them or the AB.
My night scythe stuns his dread and strips it of 2 Hull Points, which means that he should still be able to fire at full capacity next turn after Fortitude cancels out the stunned result.
Due to cover, my AB doesn't do anything with its shooting this turn.
GK: 0, Necrons: 2
Grey Knights 3
Spoiler:
GK movement.
Both unit of purifiers fire at my wraiths and drop 2.
All 3 dreads (and a couple of psybacks) focus on my night scythe. Horrible rolling on his part and evasion on my part leaves my night scythe undamaged.
Psybacks and the dreadknight heavy incinerator wipes out my warriors.
GK: 1, Necrons: 2
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
1 doomscythe comes in here.
The other doomscythe goes after his empty psybacks.
Necron movement. I go after his dreadknight.
Doomscythe wrecks Coteaz's ride.
GK: 1, Necrons: 3
The other doomscythe (gun just fell off but is still active) explodes both psybacks with its deathray.
GK: 1, Necrons: 5
My night scythe wrecks another psyback.
GK: 1, Necrons: 6
Finally, wraiths assault the rhino. Overwatch by the squad inside kills 1 wraith. Wraiths then explode the rhino, killing 1 purifier.
GK: 1, Necrons: 7
My wraithstar fails its assault against the dreadknight.
Grey Knights 4
Spoiler:
GK movement.
One-armed Arnie shunts away from my wraithstar.
Purifiers take out my wraiths. Dreads fire at my doomscythe and manage to only strip it of 1 HP.
GK: 2, Necrons: 7
Arnie flames my warriors and kill all but 1, hidden behind the building and out of LOS.
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
My last flyer, my night scythe, automatically comes in from reserves. Wraithstar goes after Arnie and doomscythe heads on over to his purifiers to inflict some pain.
Doomscythe kills 1 from Coteaz's unit and the dread (card is used as crater). Annihilation barge kills 2 from the front purifier unit. Night scythe damages his other dread.
GK: 2, Necrons: 8
Wraithstar charges the dreadknight. He fires his wall of death incinerator and kills 1 wraith.
I still manage to make it into combat, though just barely. He challenges my Warlord and I accept.
Doh!!! He passes his mindshackle test....
....but I've got my ResOrb. Muahahahahahaha.
GK: 2, Necrons: 8
Grey Knights 5
Spoiler:
2-man purifier unit tries to hide behind the wrecked rhino.
His shooting takes off the deathray from my doomscythe.
He also damages my night scythe even after evading.
Finally mindshackle goes off. Christian is quite stunned after I make his dread force weapon himself to death. He did not know that you could do that.
GK: 2, Necrons: 9
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
Not sure what happened here, but I lose a flyer. Did I fall for I've Been Expecting You again?!?
GK: 3, Necrons: 9
Wraithstar goes in for the kill.
My Warlord dies to Overwatch and he doesn't get back up! Doh!!! He gets 2 VP's - 1 for killing my D-lord and another for Slay the Warlord.
GK: 5, Necrons: 9
Wraiths then make it into multi-assault with Coteaz's unit only. I decided not to do the multi-assault.
He casts Hammerhand and only puts 1W on my wraiths. Wraiths then kill 3 purifiers.
Grey Knights 6
Spoiler:
His psyback tries to hide from my flyers. He moves his dread near combat for protection.
I don't believe his shooting does anything (he's still got 2 dreads left).
2-man purifier unit charge into melee. 1 unit of purifiers successfully casts Hammerhand. The other unit doesn't.
He puts 1W on my wraith and I kill 1 hammer purifier, thus wiping out all the purifiers from Coteaz's unit.
GK: 5, Necrons: 10
Necrons 6
Spoiler:
Necron movement.
I shoot down his dread. I also hurt his sniper dread in the ruins.
GK: 5, Necrons: 11
In combat, he takes down another 1 wraith.
Grey Knights 7
Spoiler:
There is a turn 7.
He takes out 1 more wraith. However, I kill Coteaz with a insta-killing wound. With that he concedes. I get +1 VP for also killing his Warlord and he gets +1 VP for Linebreaker.
Wow! I can't believe I won my first (and only) major tournament! Both Christian and I ended up 7-1 but because I beat him in the Finals, I take the title. It kind of sucks that Christian had to play me again after he already beat me, but the way the tournament worked was like this. The tournament organizers, Heroes on Paper up in Stockton, California, were planning for a massive tournament with 200+ people so they prepared for 8 rounds of tournament play. However, because only about 60 people showed up, most people only played 6 games. Only the 4 players with the 4 best records would go on to play an additional 1-2 games to determine 1st-4th place. Why do we have to do that? Because of the prize support. Basically, 3rd and 4th both wins a Space Marine Mega Force set each and 1st and 2nd both win a new 2000-pt army (though the values of those armies differ between 1st and 2nd). So the first 6 games were equivalent to "regular season" games and the last 2 games were equivalent to single-elimination "playoff" games.
As far as my army goes, I am very happy with its performance. I think this tournament may be a wakeup call to how flyers have changed the game. They can be really dominating, especially if you don't have the tools to handle them. Part of the reason may be that people aren't really prepared to face them yet. The other part is currently, there isn't really many options to handle flyers besides massed AT or other flyers. And right now, in my opinion, Doom Scythes are king. They are just so unbelievably good that they are easily the MVP's of my games. They consistently performed well and soaked up an incredible amount of firepower in all my games. In my honest opinion, the more doom scythes you have, the less challenging the game becomes.
I'd like to thank my fellow teammates from Game Kastle ( http://www.gamekastle.com/ ) for showing up, the Team Zero Comp guys from Frontline Gaming ( http://www.frontlinegaming.org/ ) for giving us such great competition and Rob Pace and Heroes on Paper ( http://www.heroesonpaper.com/ ) for doing an awesome job for the first ever 6th Ed. Grand Tournament - the Golden Throne GT. Thanks guys, and I will see you next year.
Also, I won a brand new 2000-pt army! Now the only question is, should I get it now or should I wait for the new Chaos Space Marines to come out. Hmmm....
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/08/17 08:31:50
Really enjoyable series of reps. Layout etc us pretty much down to a tee with great anslysis.
Was it me though or did that GT have fairly limited/sparse terrain? Got the same impression from amerikons and letats reps too.
Did you find it made much if difference? Would you guys have liked more or even less from a strictly objective pov?
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough".
2012/08/16 19:06:12
Subject: Re:The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
On my way to take on a 10-flyer scythe-cron army at Frontlinegaming! I'll finish the GT report tonight.
Ratius wrote:Really enjoyable series of reps. Layout etc us pretty much down to a tee with great anslysis.
Was it me though or did that GT have fairly limited/sparse terrain? Got the same impression from amerikons and letats reps too.
Did you find it made much if difference? Would you guys have liked more or even less from a strictly objective pov?
The GT didn't have enough terrain. Everyone was complaining about this. Part of the reason why was because the TO's storefront got broken into a week before the tournament. This set them back and they were not able to produce the type/amount of terrain that they had wanted.
Personally, the lack of terrain did not affect my army that much because my army does not rely on cover, only LOS-blocking terrain. But for the sake of fairness, I would prefer a more standardized 25% of terrain.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/16 19:06:38
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2012/08/16 19:12:07
Subject: The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2012/08/16 19:18:14
Subject: The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2012/08/16 19:33:58
Subject: The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
I guess I don't understand the 8th round then. Or then why even if he loses there isn't a 9th round because they each would be 7-1 and have beaten eachother.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not overly important just interested in the scoring method. Soft scores maybe?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/16 19:34:46
Red Corsair wrote:Ah, OK. That would be the only sensible answer I guess. That's an interesting method for sure. Sucks to be Christian lol.
Indeed. I've been part of an MTG tourney that was run in the same exact fashion. I went undefeated and ended up in the finals against someone I had already played against and beaten. I wasn't too thrilled about that but that's how some things are run.
2012/08/17 01:20:44
Subject: The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
Red Corsair wrote:Ah, OK. That would be the only sensible answer I guess. That's an interesting method for sure. Sucks to be Christian lol.
Indeed. I've been part of an MTG tourney that was run in the same exact fashion. I went undefeated and ended up in the finals against someone I had already played against and beaten. I wasn't too thrilled about that but that's how some things are run.
Yea I personally think it's a poor way to run an event in any game but especially in a grueling tabletop tournament that takes so much out of you. Plus it looks bad.
I don't think it's a terrible way to run things to be honest. The first 5 or 6 matches are like the group stage and then rounds 7 and 8 are the knock out rounds. It's sort of like a hybrid double elimination tourney in that respect.
2012/08/17 03:00:50
Subject: Re:The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
All 3 dreads (and a couple of psybacks) focus on my night scythe. Horrible rolling on his part and evasion on my part leaves my night scythe undamaged.
When 3 Heavy Supports slots and 2 Dedicated transports fail to do any damage to a 100pt. dedicated transport that has the only rule in the game that keeps its occupants safe when you blow it up, you know there is problems with this game. I'm not one to pull the trigger, tie the noose, or push the button but IMOGW has produced a product that they KNOW they have no intention of leaving in its current form until it makes enough money from the masses and needs smacked upside the head.
I don't think I need to read anymore of this battlerep. The guys over at frontline gaming as well as the numberous battlereps here have shown without a shadow of a doubt, you bring flyers (preferably Necrons who have gratuitous rules) or you'll play at a huge disadvantage. Matter of fact, in 3 turns of the final round, JY2 has practically used only 2 units of his entire army, is winning, and is in dominating postion with the rest of his flyers yet to come...
"Nothing is so exhilarating in life as to be shot at with no result."
- Winston Churchill
2012/08/17 07:02:41
Subject: The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
Coteaz's rule is similar to the contraversy over the "mind in the machine" issue for necrons. It basically made all powers not a routine shooting attack unusable while in a transport. We've had this discussed to death so many times on YMDC back in 5th, I'm surprised they didn't really fix the wording.
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/08/17 08:40:15
Subject: Re:The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
Too tired right now. Will get to reponses tomorrow.
And no, I did not participate in the "Milk" challenge against Reece today because 1) he is allergic to milk and 2) they already shipped out Cron Air to their customer.
I'm pretty sure you can't force weapon activate with MSS
It's definately hotly been debated before on YMDC and general concensus is that you get the AP value and strength of the weapon but as your model has to make a psy test to activate it (which requires warp charge) and you don't get to use their psy powers anywhere in the MSS rules. The weapon doesn't choose to activate the power, the model does, (BRB specifically says "HE can immediately choose to activate it" p37) so it does not allow you to use force activation as MSS specifically states properties of the "Melee weapon" (necron FAQ), not the psyker.
You do benefit from other things such as reroll to hit from say lightning claws, or concussion from hammers, or armorbane from chainfists but you don't get to activate their force weapons.
If you could, then it may be said then that you can cast hammerhand on them too when they fail a MSS but that's just not how it's been played as one is a psyker ability and the other is a weapon ability.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/17 14:56:28
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/08/17 17:46:59
Subject: Re:The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1 - p.2, #2 & #3 - p.3, #4 & #5 - p.4, #6 - p.5, #7 - p.6)
SabrX wrote:It's been a hectic week. Finally get a chance to read your battle report.
Excellent job against SoB and Biker Marines. Seems like neither list could counter your flyers.
Brutal games against GK and Harliestar. GK did phenomenal shooting your Wraiths and MSU to saturate your Flyers. Shame Destroyer Lord died to Dreadknight.
Excellent game against Frankie. For the most part, you avoided the D-eldar Deathstar and took out easier targets. Once Eldrad and and Fuegan split to contest objectives, the Harlequins were easy targets for the flyers. It was a very close game between you two. After losing his Walkers, Frankie struggled against the flyers.
Congratulations winning your first GT!
Thanks. Too bad you couldn't make it. Everyone had a great time.
Ironically, the 2 armies that I thought would have a harder time against my flyers - biker space marines and Frankie's Harlistar - actually took them down with relative ease considering the rather limited amount of AT they had. And the armies with the better anti-air shooting - Sisters, MSU grey knights and Trent's scythe-crons - actually had the tougher time considering how much shooting they had.
Lukus83 wrote:Loving these Batreps jy2. I may not be posting as much as I used to, but I still get my kicks from reading the reps that come up. Kudos for finding the time so soon after the GT. Will have to try and put similar effort into our Shanghai GT experience.
Thanks. I'd wish you luck in the GT, but I don't think you really need it. It's the other guys who will probably need it. Barring extreme dice, you are going to trash your opponents!
Red Corsair wrote:I don't really understand how someone who is 7-0 plays someone who they already beat who is 6-1 for 1st and second place?
First 6 games were to determine the 4 top players. These were the "regular season" games. Then the top 4 continued on to the "playoffs", which is basically a 2-game single elimination tournament. Yeah, it's weird that Christian had to play me again for 1st once again, but in real life tournies, these things happen. You can lose to an opponent in normal play only to encounter him once again in post-season play.
Painnen wrote:All 3 dreads (and a couple of psybacks) focus on my night scythe. Horrible rolling on his part and evasion on my part leaves my night scythe undamaged.
When 3 Heavy Supports slots and 2 Dedicated transports fail to do any damage to a 100pt. dedicated transport that has the only rule in the game that keeps its occupants safe when you blow it up, you know there is problems with this game. I'm not one to pull the trigger, tie the noose, or push the button but IMOGW has produced a product that they KNOW they have no intention of leaving in its current form until it makes enough money from the masses and needs smacked upside the head.
I don't think I need to read anymore of this battlerep. The guys over at frontline gaming as well as the numberous battlereps here have shown without a shadow of a doubt, you bring flyers (preferably Necrons who have gratuitous rules) or you'll play at a huge disadvantage. Matter of fact, in 3 turns of the final round, JY2 has practically used only 2 units of his entire army, is winning, and is in dominating postion with the rest of his flyers yet to come...
Yeah, I believe that is going to be the evolution of the game. Milk flyers for all they are worth until they start rolling out the anti-flyer weaponry. But flyers will still be good. They just won't be as scary over time as they are right now.
This was for sure a bad matchup for Christian. But honestly, MSU armies have done well despite playing in "handicap" matches such as Kill Points. That is because they usually have the ability to just overwhelm the opponent before they can even get any offense going, no matter the mission.
Which is why I like my army. It isn't just a simple point-&-click-&-win army. You actually have to play it with a little finesse and use strategy. In this case, my strategy of denial was what ultimately led to my victory. Deny the opponent his greatest strength - his shooting in this case - and you are already at an advantage.
sudojoe wrote:Coteaz's rule is similar to the contraversy over the "mind in the machine" issue for necrons. It basically made all powers not a routine shooting attack unusable while in a transport. We've had this discussed to death so many times on YMDC back in 5th, I'm surprised they didn't really fix the wording.
It is exactly the same thing (also with Njal's Lord of Tempests special ability). Back in 5th, they FAQ'd it so that you couldn't use firepoints to draw LOS for specials rules such as these to end those controversies. Looks like they may need to do it again for 6th as it is a very subtle point that most people (like both Christian and I) probably will not catch.
sudojoe wrote:I'm pretty sure you can't force weapon activate with MSS
It's definately hotly been debated before on YMDC and general concensus is that you get the AP value and strength of the weapon but as your model has to make a psy test to activate it (which requires warp charge) and you don't get to use their psy powers anywhere in the MSS rules. The weapon doesn't choose to activate the power, the model does, (BRB specifically says "HE can immediately choose to activate it" p37) so it does not allow you to use force activation as MSS specifically states properties of the "Melee weapon" (necron FAQ), not the psyker.
You do benefit from other things such as reroll to hit from say lightning claws, or concussion from hammers, or armorbane from chainfists but you don't get to activate their force weapons.
If you could, then it may be said then that you can cast hammerhand on them too when they fail a MSS but that's just not how it's been played as one is a psyker ability and the other is a weapon ability.
I believe the consensus of most gamers - including myself, Christian's own Zero Comp teammates and the TO and judge presiding over the game (at various times) - is that it works. Just like if you have Preferred Enemy, you would have to re-roll the wound rolls of '1'. The weapon itself doesn't have the ability, but the character possessing the weapon does. The same would apply to force weapons. The ability that character has (i.e. furious charge, preferred enemy, force weapons) is passed onto the Mindshackled attack.
From a fluff perspective, it makes sense as well. Mindshackles are controlling the opponents mind and forcing him to kill himself with his most deadly attacks without any holding back.
Hammerhand doesn't work because it has to be done at the beginning of the phase. Once they attack themselves, then it is already too late to cast Hammerhand. Force weapons, however, are activated when the target is wounded.
But that brings up a tactical tip - if you don't want to force weapon yourself to death from MSS, just cast Hammerhand at the beginning of combat. Then you won't have the Warp Charge available to force yourself to death.
tetsuo666 wrote:Good job Jy2
But as you say flyers create a big disadvantage for army which can't have DCA :-/
Thanks....but I'm not quite sure I follow your comment. Flyers create a big disadvantage for an army which can't have Death Cult Assassins?
Congrats Jy2! Strong list, good strategy and cool thinking, well deserved. This was a great read and got me motivated to go to the smackdown tournament next month (never been to a tournament before).
2012/08/18 07:17:57
Subject: The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1-p.2, #2+#3-p.3, #4+#5-p.4, #6-p.5, #7-p.6, #8-p.7)
Judges at tournies, much like refs for sports, will always get some calls 'wrong' and the terrain was effected by a break in. I'm sure it'll be much improved next year.
In any case, congratulations to Jy2 on his first tourny victory. Nobody can say you haven't beaten the best anymore.
2012/08/18 20:40:57
Subject: The Road to the Golden Throne GT (Game #1-p.2, #2+#3-p.3, #4+#5-p.4, #6-p.5, #7-p.6, #8-p.7)
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
Though very tired, I was also very much looking forwards to this rematch.
This was a great read and got me motivated to go to the smackdown tournament next month (never been to a tournament before).
