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 SalamanderMarine wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
But the problem is that there is no alternative set up for the kids coming into the wargaming hobby.

GW sells an alternative. It's right there on the shelf. The battlemat.

And it's a damn good product and, funnily enough, well priced for what you get.

I love my battlemat, it is awesome and works a treat.

It's something I'd recommend to anyone, even if they had the money and were perfectly willing to buy the RoBB.

It bypasses the need to flock and paint, like the RoBB. It's easier to store. It doesn't have built in anti-terrain. It doesn't have skull pits.

And the huge amount of money saved can be spent on buying/making better terrain and on figs.

I think the Realm of Repression boards in the stores are just more plastic being pushed.
I would rather play on a home made table any day. I've been to conventions like Historicon where there have been some absolutely beautiful boards to play on.

My FLGS used to have a RoBB set up among its many hand made boards, and was used for a cityfight board (a lot of buildings painted in the same colours).

I rarely saw it used, and it appears to be gone in favour of another hand made board.

Mr Mugguffins wrote:
When the hell did these god damned citadel gaming boards become standard?

Where are you playing? In GW stores? Of course they pimp their own products.

Play in with friends or at clubs and you'll very rarely see one.

I have one, just because it's easy to transport.

I'd like to have a RoB as a base for my table: cover the skullpits, add flock and sand, modify it a bit so that it won't look like a stock RoB.

But it's too expensive to be that.

CT GAMER wrote:

I also don't see it as GW responsibility to teach/inform people of ways to bypass/replace their products. To be fair, what other company publishes a magazine filled with how to articles on ways replace/ avoid the need for their products?

GW is a terrain manufacturer now, more so then ever, why are they honor bound to uphold old ways of doing things if they provide products that serve the same purpose? The expectation for them to do so is ludicrous...

Well, Wargames Illustrated for a start?

I would't say they are honour bound - but it would be nice to have some kind of recognition of the wider model building hobby. It's kind of hypocritical that they still bill themselves as a 'hobby' (and believe me when I say this is a massive draw for parents - that their kids will be doing some creative) but at the same time cut down on the amount of 'hobby' involved.

Hobby-hobby-hobby-hobby-hobby-hobby-hobby- Argghhhhh! *head explodes*

fishy bob wrote:Haters gunna hate lulz

Thanks for that well reasoned and thought out critique. (Sorry... I hate sarcasm, but that reply was deserving of it! )

SalamanderMarine wrote:

I love my battlemat, it is awesome and works a treat.

Actually yes I had forgotten about that, it is rather good! I'm amazed it is actually still on sale in fact.

 mrwhoop wrote:

I remember hearing one idea was that it's all about the impulse but for me my impulse is in planning how much I can spend in a given month and if a video game comes out before a GW wave that I knew nothing about then GW it going to have to wait for me to put aside next month's allotted $$.

Agreeing here as well. If someone thinks they may possibly want to buy some new figs or start a new army, if said things are announced say, two months in advance, that person might decide that he'd buy that and start to put money aside for it. If said things are revealed to that person with no warning whatsoever then it's likely that he won't have any spare money and won't bother.

Mr Mugguffins wrote:
Okay, basically I took a 7ish year hiatus from the hobby. Coming back, I delved back in. Alot's changed. I primarily play in GW's due to them being more common about where I live than flgs. Here's the thing that drives me mad though.

When the hell did these god damned citadel gaming boards become standard?

Seriously, I love Warhammer fantasy and these damned things ram 3ish hills, usually into peoples deployment. It's gotten to the point that newer players look at me funny when I remind them hills are a terrain piece, not just a thing that's always there.

Add in that they follow citadels wierd obsession with skulls (seriously, in the ground, on the walls, even in the cieling) and we have a board that is full of dice cocking crevices and match balance altering hills. Ok rant over.

So what do you think dakka? Am I just getting my crazy all over the internet?

It's like you took what's in my head and just started typing it out.

 The Shadow wrote:

 mrwhoop wrote:

I remember hearing one idea was that it's all about the impulse but for me my impulse is in planning how much I can spend in a given month and if a video game comes out before a GW wave that I knew nothing about then GW it going to have to wait for me to put aside next month's allotted $$.

Agreeing here as well. If someone thinks they may possibly want to buy some new figs or start a new army, if said things are announced say, two months in advance, that person might decide that he'd buy that and start to put money aside for it. If said things are revealed to that person with no warning whatsoever then it's likely that he won't have any spare money and won't bother.

Clearly GW think they make more money from the customers who say 'zOMG I must havez that now!!" every month rather than people who save up to make large planned purchases every few months.

Seeing as GW primarily target younger audiences who are only in the hobby for a couple of years at most then this probably is the best strategy as it taps the money in their wallets as frequently as possible. The idea of saving up for a few months to make a planned purchase is something that comes with age and maturity, not typical of GW's targeted age groups.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
When i encounter whiners i always ask "So how much for your army?" They reply its not for sale, i reply then "If your going to keep plaaying then shut it.

Damn straight boy. You can only keep playing this game if you never complain about any aspect of it ever. At all.

"Valid criticism"? Pfft! All I hear is the sound of dem haterz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CT GAMER wrote:
The battle boards are for them. People with money but no time/skill/desire can buy an acceptable surface to play on if they choose.

But that's just it - it's not. A RoB doesn't leave you with a table you can play games on. It leaves you with an irregular surface that still requires more terrain before it is complete and something to put it on. The RoB by itself doesn't give you what you need to play a game - you're just buying something that you have to put onto a flat surface... a flat surface you could have used without the RoB board and then spent the money you would have spent on a RoB on some of GW's other terrain.

And, do that second part - you still have to put the RoB on something, so why not just use the thing you're putting the RoB on as the surface instead? It's flat, it can be anything (rather than always hills), and it didn't cost you your first born. That's actually what eats me the most about the RoB. It solves no problems. It doesn't do anything. I own 4 trestle tables. Each one is 6'x2.5'. Put two of 'em together and you have a flat 6x5 surface. I throw a 4' wide table cloth (or my 6x4 battle mat) across the top and I have a playing surface. I then put terrain on that. With a RoB... I'd still be using the trestle tables, and I'd be left with just a surface on top of another surface. Why would you do that? How does that make any sense or solve any problems? I still don't have any terrain to play on, so why did I go and put a playing surface (and an expensive one at that) on top of another playing surface?

I almost brought a RoB, but thanks to some sage advice from MGS I managed to avoid it.

Now whenever I look at one all I hear is 'the Clacking, the Clacking!'

almostreal wrote:
To me..the WORST thing about the hobby is the vocal 10% or so "HATERS" who complain about EVERYTHING GW. "This" is overpriced, "GW" is greedy, "IT USED TO BE BETTER". It seems like to me that when people run out of money or are on the brink of leaving the hobby due to whatever, they spend the last year complaining about the hobby and talking garbage about GW.

10% "or so", eh? That would make our group sound pretty small, if I wasn't about 99.9% sure that statistic was pulled straight out of your ass and means literally nothing.

almostreal wrote:
I fail to understand why if you hate something so much that you spend any time thinking or discussing it.

Likewise, I don't understand why you guys don't just utilize the "Ignore" buttons on Dakka. If you find someone is consistently negative and you don't want to read their posts you can simply ignore that person, problem solved. After all, if you hate negativity so much then why not take your own advice and not waste your time discussing something you hate?

Especially since your post was #3 in this thread, there really wasn't any negativity for you to respond to yet...neither the OP nor Ascalam are "haters" and their posts didn't come off as being overly negative to me. In fact your confrontational post and others like it will likely generate more negativity in the long run than this thread would have otherwise had.

Also, Dakka Dakka isn't a purely 40k/WHF-dedicated forum, and having a favorable opinion of GW isn't a requirement for posting here. So I don't know what you meant by "just go away" but if that was the case then...no.

almostreal wrote:
Negative people in general bug me and GW detractors are the worst because they are usually pretty smart and come up with these logical sounding arguments about GW is the devil.

Yeah...logical-sounding arguments, how awful...

You know it's almost like they might kinda have a point if their arguments about how GW are the devil actually have logic to them and aren't just mindless, unwarranted geek rage.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
I almost brought a RoB, but thanks to some sage advice from MGS I managed to avoid it.

I kinda wanted to get one...back when they were $175. But then the price went up, twice IIRC, while they were still on pre-order and it nearly doubled so there went any and all desire I had to own one.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CT GAMER wrote:
The battle boards are for them. People with money but no time/skill/desire can buy an acceptable surface to play on if they choose.

But that's just it - it's not. A RoB doesn't leave you with a table you can play games on. It leaves you with an irregular surface that still requires more terrain before it is complete and something to put it on. The RoB by itself doesn't give you what you need to play a game - you're just buying something that you have to put onto a flat surface... a flat surface you could have used without the RoB board and then spent the money you would have spent on a RoB on some of GW's other terrain.

And, do that second part - you still have to put the RoB on something, so why not just use the thing you're putting the RoB on as the surface instead? It's flat, it can be anything (rather than always hills), and it didn't cost you your first born. That's actually what eats me the most about the RoB. It solves no problems. It doesn't do anything. I own 4 trestle tables. Each one is 6'x2.5'. Put two of 'em together and you have a flat 6x5 surface. I throw a 4' wide table cloth (or my 6x4 battle mat) across the top and I have a playing surface. I then put terrain on that. With a RoB... I'd still be using the trestle tables, and I'd be left with just a surface on top of another surface. Why would you do that? How does that make any sense or solve any problems? I still don't have any terrain to play on, so why did I go and put a playing surface (and an expensive one at that) on top of another playing surface?

You and I know that.

Now put aside your own logical/analytical mind (and very opinionated stance on all things gaming rooted in much experience in the hobby) and pretend you are Little Timmy or some other 10-13 year old pie-eyed youngster just finding 40K for the first time and with no knowledge of terrain building no expectations rooted in the knowledge of jaded gamers and aged veteran hobbiests.

The ROB board just might seem "Totally awesome". Hell I've seen kids that age play on a picnic table with a few pine cones and empty unit boxes as terrain. The ROB board will probably seem like a dream come true to some of the target audiencce tbh...

almostreal wrote:

To me..the WORST thing about the hobby is the vocal 10% or so "HATERS" who complain about EVERYTHING GW. "This" is overpriced, "GW" is greedy, "IT USED TO BE BETTER". It seems like to me that when people run out of money or are on the brink of leaving the hobby due to whatever, they spend the last year complaining about the hobby and talking garbage about GW.

I fail to understand why if you hate something so much that you spend any time thinking or discussing it. Negative people in general bug me and GW detractors are the worst because they are usually pretty smart and come up with these logical sounding arguments about GW is the devil. Honestly, they are a company trying to make money and provide an awesome line of product at the same time. If you don't like it....go play a different game or better yet, just go away.

Totally agree.

 Flashman wrote:
GW abandoned the hobby aspect (except painting) to concentrate on selling molded plastic (with as much skull detailing as inhumanly possible).

What really irritates me is that the painting articles have now stopped too (in WD this month, it was you need these paints for your Daemons and that was it) so they can sell painting guides for your ipad (which of course everyone owns).

Just to add the colours at least for the Daemonettes won't actually get the finished product anyway.

So not only was it just going "buy these paints" it was also only giving you a rough idea.

Draging the thread back on topic.

IMO the worst thing about the GW hobby these days is it has become all about 'selling toy soldiers to children.'
('Mission statment' of Tom Kirby Chairman of GW plc.)

Which doesent sound too bad, if you are corperate managment talking to share holders, or even 'children' wanting to buy some 'toy soldiers'.

But having been part of the 'here is the frame work to build a fantastical world populated with your own creations,' hobby.
It seems awfuly shallow and contrived.

And so those old enough to remember the highly creative social hobby , where gamers and game developers worked hand in hand to arrive at a great gaming experiance.May feel a little sad at the current direction of GW plc .

 heartserenade wrote:
I'd like to have a RoB as a base for my table: cover the skullpits, add flock and sand, modify it a bit so that it won't look like a stock RoB.

But it's too expensive to be that.

NG g4 has a new ROB now. Some redshirt gave it to us (Sir Freddie recieved it too )

Now in my flgs terrain makers are looked up. Our makers make sweet pieces (normaly ruined 4 story buildings) that are usually fought over which table the pieces go on

I just don't like the mere fact WD is useless for painting guides now.... shame. And the gw dice (long story short they make me roll 5 ones in one go.) Some of our vets say its the weight is not balanced...

almostreal wrote:

I fail to understand why if you hate something so much that you spend any time thinking or discussing it. Negative people in general bug me and GW detractors are the worst because they are usually pretty smart and come up with these logical sounding arguments

Ahh.. for some space in my sig area, what an absolute peach of a quote.

Makes me think of that Bill Hicks sketch about "them readers"..

I like the Realm of Battle but nothing really beats a handmade board.

I gave up on GW for 40k a few months ago.

I rarely even go over the 40k forums etc... Im a hater who moved on =]


Im too busy assembling and painting and playing a better game to be bitching about a boring, mundane and tacticless tabletop top game.

The Citadel Realm of Battle Board is awesome. It is well made, extremely detailed, and can be used for virtually any sci-fi or mini game.
It breaks down and stores easily as well. A truly amazing product.

With that being said, I would get bored just playing on it exclusively. That is why I have 2 other boards I made myself to swap out.

I don't mind playing on them but I would never buy 1, they're way too expensive.

If you don't like the skull pits, you could always cover them with sand or something.

I hope GW continues on its current path. They recruit new customers, churn them for early sales and then most of them quit. Some, however, are life long gamers that just found something cool. When they get churned out, they often discover the huge wide world of the real hobby-- miniature wargaming-- that is there for everyone once they realize "the Games Workshop Hobby" is just a marketing machine.

Some keep playing games GW puts out, others switch to other games and manufacturers. But they put up great galleries and blogs. They have cool modeling projects and help support the tons of smaller companies that I now really like.

Thing is, I see both sides to the story. Growing up with WD, you used to see awesome scratch built tables and terrain like the pictures posted above on a regular basis. Thing is though, very few people (at least, the ones I gamed with in my social circles) had the skill, talent, creativity or aptitude to build terrain and boards anything like those. So most of the time, my friends and I were playing on MDF boards, crudely painted green or badly flocked, with poor terrain kludged from model railway trees, crudely assembled and painted rocks picked from the garden, and hills hacked out of lumps of Styrofoam that looked very little like hills really.

Yes, the ROB does away with creativity and there are only a few ways to configure it so it can be stale but it is painted/flocked easily, breaks down for storage and it looks good with terrain on it. I would rather play on that because it looks semi decent and quite frankly, is a million times better than anything I could ever hope to build myself. Yes, you can buy and build a board for less than £50 but you have to question just how good it will look unless you are a skilled terrain maker. So the choice as always, is convenience over cost. The GW solution costs more (as always) but is just a hell of a lot more convenient than building one from scratch, at least IMO anyway.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
When i encounter whiners i always ask "So how much for your army?" They reply its not for sale, i reply then "If your going to keep plaaying then shut it.

2,500~2750 point Dualwing (and not a AoBR Deathwing either). $500 through Paypal and include your address and pics on request. It's sitting on my table in my office at home.

 Darklight wrote:
The Citadel Realm of Battle Board is awesome. It is well made, extremely detailed, and can be used for virtually any sci-fi or mini game.

It's a flat surface with hills and cracks.
Did I miss something.

Yes, but looks at all the SKULLZZZZ!!!

Okay, I'm sold. I'll take twenty!

I'm indifferent to the realm of battle board. It looks ok but the price is far to high. Besides which I'm really looking forward to the challenge of crafting one myself. I'm in this hobby for the creative aspect anyway.

For me GW worst aspect would be a tie between the price and the whole secret marketing thing. I don't spend every extra dime on GW. I could and probobly would if I knew what was coming ahead of time. I could scronge up 4 or 5 hundred dollars or more to spend just on their product alone if they gave me a heads up. Instead it goes to xbox or sporting events or whatever. I also understand busniess tring to make money it just seems sometime like GW goes above and beyond.

On a side note what kid has 300 dallors to blow. I used to sweat my guts out for 20 or 30 bucks. Guess that shows my age. I don't care what time of year it is if my kids ask for something that expensive the answer is flat out NO.

I don't mind it. Even with no terrain it saves you from the endless plain of Table. That said, I actually like how it can be picked up, stored, and set up relatively painlessly. Along with the forgeworld inserts, you have a good selection of variety available.

I remember at my old GW when they had to re-do one of them, I convinced the store to let me take a shot at painting/modeling it. They had tried to make it into a desert with pits of blood with skulls. Those quickly got filled up with black paint and 'ardcoat to make tarpits. Even added some skeleton and skele-horse bits to add to the effect.