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How many flyers is too many. Is there a point where your overwhelming air superiority works against you. I'm still not that familiar with the new flyer rules but I do see they are very powerful and many people want to utilize them in their lists. However since it is still new is there a general sense of how many you should have in a balanced army. When the rules for 6th were first released I saw a few proposed necron lists with 9 flyiers. Many guard lists I've seen use 3 Vendetta as standard, but would list with 6 and 9 work as well? Would too many flyers clog up the battle field. What are your opinion on these and other flyer related matters?

Unless you're a WAAC player, don't run maxed out fliers. As a Necron player who could field 9 flyers, Its just a dick move. At max I'll play 2 Doom Scythes, but more than that is just rude.

Air superiority becomes overwhelming the second your opponent doesn't have access to something with Skyfire.

As long as you can present enough threats to them on any given turn, they won't have the resources to dedicate to taking down a flyer, or even attempting to ground an FMC.

Basically, more armies need access to Skyfire at the moment that isn't a fortification.

I would just pay attention to your local meta and don't be a cheesedick. Having an unstoppable list sounds great until you realize you have become TFG that no one wants to play with.

Run nine flyers man. Six Vendettas, Three Valks. That stuff is cray. I run a 11 flyer list for Elysians sometimes; just to haze kids at the FLGS.

Go ahead and weep about it, fluffers.

 -Loki- wrote:
Air superiority becomes overwhelming the second your opponent doesn't have access to something with Skyfire.

Not really, your opponent could just use mid strength dakka. One multi-laser hitting on sixes won't do much, but 30 str 6 shots from 10 chimeras will have a very high chance of bringing down a flyer. Twin-linked weapons are nice too. Granted there is a point where it simply isn't feasible to down flyers with dakka, like if your opponent is running 9 flyers. So, your main limit should be not being a dick, in which case look at the local meta, if skyfire weapons and flyers are rare they probably can't cope with lots of flyers well and keep the numbers below 3.

Buttons wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Air superiority becomes overwhelming the second your opponent doesn't have access to something with Skyfire.

Not really, your opponent could just use mid strength dakka. One multi-laser hitting on sixes won't do much, but 30 str 6 shots from 10 chimeras will have a very high chance of bringing down a flyer. Twin-linked weapons are nice too. Granted there is a point where it simply isn't feasible to down flyers with dakka, like if your opponent is running 9 flyers. So, your main limit should be not being a dick, in which case look at the local meta, if skyfire weapons and flyers are rare they probably can't cope with lots of flyers well and keep the numbers below 3.

You need to keep reading my post.

With a few flyers, even two or three, armies can still present enough threats that you simply cannot dedicate those 10 multilasers to trying to damage those flyers. You have other things to shoot that you can more reliably destroy, but that leaves those flyers to take your force apart with impunity.

The problem with flyers is the lack of units with Skyfire, not flyers themselves (outside of the multiple Vendetta or 9 Necron flyer lists).

There is certainly a threshold depending on the army list.
Limiting factors are the number of scoring units, and enough units on the board so that auto-lose is impossible.

 TheCaptain wrote:
Run nine flyers man. Six Vendettas, Three Valks. That stuff is cray. I run a 11 flyer list for Elysians sometimes; just to haze kids at the FLGS.

Go ahead and weep about it, fluffers.

Your avatar says it all. Not only do you admit to running stuff just to stomp kids (not cool man), but you're rude about it too. I've no problem with running optimal lists (I try to do it myself) but at least be gracious enough not to be rude.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Run nine flyers man. Six Vendettas, Three Valks. That stuff is cray. I run a 11 flyer list for Elysians sometimes; just to haze kids at the FLGS.

Go ahead and weep about it, fluffers.

Your avatar says it all. Not only do you admit to running stuff just to stomp kids (not cool man), but you're rude about it too. I've no problem with running optimal lists (I try to do it myself) but at least be gracious enough not to be a douche.

Fixed it.

 hazal wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Run nine flyers man. Six Vendettas, Three Valks. That stuff is cray. I run a 11 flyer list for Elysians sometimes; just to haze kids at the FLGS.

Go ahead and weep about it, fluffers.

Your avatar says it all. Not only do you admit to running stuff just to stomp kids (not cool man), but you're rude about it too. I've no problem with running optimal lists (I try to do it myself) but at least be gracious enough not to be a douche.

Fixed it.

Wait... what?

Probably anything more than 2-3 flyers would be cheesing it a bit with my local meta.

I'm planning on taking 7 cron flyers to Throne of Skulls, I am not going to win, I am going to have fun.
The list I made was done during 5th, and i would play with as many flyers as possible using those rules when they were easy to kill just because I like them fluff wise.

I'm not saying that this isn't overkill or just stupid but there are reasons for playing flyer spam with out being waac guy.

I am going to be running two fliers eventually. More than that would be too much in my opinnion and takes points away from the rest of your army.

I currently run 2 dakkajets but am planning on getting a full flying circus of 6 someday. Yeah, it is a little excessive, but it is a fun list to run.

Mind you, I don't use it in a WAAC or TFG manner, just me in my quest to field the silliest ork lists possible. They sometimes proxy as blitzabombers to that end.

-cgmckenzie

RivenSkull wrote:
Unless you're a WAAC player, don't run maxed out fliers. As a Necron player who could field 9 flyers, Its just a dick move. At max I'll play 2 Doom Scythes, but more than that is just rude.

Nine fliers you say? Dick move you say? Hmmm... Do to my recent thread about imperial guard, this may be a good idea.

I say, 2. In my mind, WAAC lists are boring, i know a few people put kinks into there lists purposfully and units which are considered the best just so they have a posibility of loosing.

Buttons wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Air superiority becomes overwhelming the second your opponent doesn't have access to something with Skyfire.

Not really, your opponent could just use mid strength dakka. One multi-laser hitting on sixes won't do much, but 30 str 6 shots from 10 chimeras will have a very high chance of bringing down a flyer. Twin-linked weapons are nice too. Granted there is a point where it simply isn't feasible to down flyers with dakka, like if your opponent is running 9 flyers. So, your main limit should be not being a dick, in which case look at the local meta, if skyfire weapons and flyers are rare they probably can't cope with lots of flyers well and keep the numbers below 3.

30 multi las shots is 5 hits, 0.83 hull points taken from an AV12. And they come with 3 hull points.
Or 1.6 hull points from a necron flyer. Congrats, you just used 550 points to take out a 175 point unit (that would have, in all liklihood, killed far more than its points already)

I'm upset because the mean man on the computer runs too many flyers! He's a douche! MOM!!! TELL HIM TO STOP!

There we go. Now it's fixed.

Anyone who calls flyers overpowered is just uncomfortable coming to terms with the fact that their list isn't as good as yours.

Fliers aren't priced with the assumption that only the Defense Line can hit it well, they are priced with the assumption that every codex will have specific models made to counter them. Such models do not exist. Yet. Bringing (too many) fliers is taking advantage of a weakness in the game system that is going to be fixed at a (much) later date. Going overboard with fliers in this context is pretty much the same as exploiting.

P.S. regarding your signature, The Captain, no you didn't earn it. That signature belongs to a dedicated long time Tau player when they get a new codex, not an imperial guardsman.

 TheCaptain wrote:

I'm upset because the mean man on the computer runs too many flyers! He's a douche! MOM!!! TELL HIM TO STOP!

There we go. Now it's fixed.

Anyone who calls flyers overpowered is just uncomfortable coming to terms with the fact that their list isn't as good as yours.

bs. Most armies do not have access to skyfire outside of aegis defence line.

 Mahtamori wrote:
Fliers aren't priced with the assumption that only the Defense Line can hit it well, they are priced with the assumption that every codex will have specific models made to counter them. Such models do not exist. Yet. Bringing (too many) fliers is taking advantage of a weakness in the game system that is going to be fixed at a (much) later date. Going overboard with fliers in this context is pretty much the same as exploiting.

P.S. regarding your signature, The Captain, no you didn't earn it. That signature belongs to a dedicated long time Tau player when they get a new codex, not an imperial guardsman.

Which is why there should have been at least a unit or two from each codex given access to "skyfire" in the FAQs/Errata. The complete lack of such an update reeks of an attempt to sell a disproportionate number of flyers to the more unscrupulous amongst the playerbase.

Also we have to take into account one of the first major tournaments of 6th edition, Golden Throne, was won by a Necron player with 4 flyers. I believe during most of his matches they pretty much had free reign on the table.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420614.page

 cgmckenzie wrote:
I currently run 2 dakkajets but am planning on getting a full flying circus of 6 someday. Yeah, it is a little excessive, but it is a fun list to run.

Mind you, I don't use it in a WAAC or TFG manner, just me in my quest to field the silliest ork lists possible. They sometimes proxy as blitzabombers to that end.

-cgmckenzie

That is the right way to do it. Besides the dakkajet is the coolest flier GW has made so far. It is the reason I am actually considering a small ork force.

I just hope they hurry up and get the AA units and rules out there so I can field the models I like without have to walk around with a WAAC badge.

 Mahtamori wrote:
Fliers aren't priced with the assumption that only the Defense Line can hit it well, they are priced with the assumption that every codex will have specific models made to counter them. Such models do not exist. Yet. Bringing (too many) fliers is taking advantage of a weakness in the game system that is going to be fixed at a (much) later date. Going overboard with fliers in this context is pretty much the same as exploiting.

P.S. regarding your signature, The Captain, no you didn't earn it. That signature belongs to a dedicated long time Tau player when they get a new codex, not an imperial guardsman.

Implying only one person can earn a concept so broad and undefined as cheese?

Icwatudidtharnotusinganylogicwhatsoever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldarain wrote:

Which is why there should have been at least a unit or two from each codex given access to "skyfire" in the FAQs/Errata. The complete lack of such an update reeks of an attempt to sell a disproportionate number of flyers to the more unscrupulous amongst the playerbase.

Every codex (to my knowledge) has either access to a Flyer or access to an Ally with Flyers. All Flyers have skyfire.

Boom.

"I don't wanna take allies though!"
Then you are refusing the skyfire offered to you, which is your fault.

Any thing more than two is just rude..unless you know the other player is taking more than two.
I my self just take the one flyer in every list i make, I mean for 130pts the Vendetta is good for the points and in the 6 games I've ran the Fiery Fox its only ever been shot down once (he is one of the luckiest pilots ever ).

 TheCaptain wrote:

Every codex (to my knowledge) has either access to a Flyer or access to an Ally with Flyers. All Flyers have skyfire.

Boom.

Not Nids.

Boom.

Don't they have FMC's that can do stuff?

If not, then only nids players have fair reason to complain.

I'm gonna take 1, but so help me if people moan about that i'll take more out of spite!