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 AlexHolker wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Any chance that the Warpath space-zombie faction will get a team?

Or will that make absolutely no-sense at all with regards to the background of the game?

It would make absolutely no sense at all with regards to the background of any game not populated by pod people. Anyone who would attempt to use The Plague for entertainment deserves to be incinerated along with his charges for gross stupidity.

Thanks for the reply, and I'll be honest that did make me chuckle!

 Zweischneid wrote:
Sure they are comparable.

It's a double-standard in the users of this forum IMO, who are always willing to tear into GW like they are out to offend them personally, but will viciously mock, scorn and ridicule even the slightest criticism of Mantic as if they couldn't possibly do wrong or were utterly incapable of manipulating their fans a little bit.

Thank you. At least someone here gets it. Also to you, RiTides.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Well, they were really good at taking feedback into account on the KoW Kickstarter, the Ogre concept art has changed significantly, taking into account a lot of public feedback.

Has it? First I've heard about it.

they freelance out everything, so yes the "just got this in the mail" comment is accurate.

Or to put it another way, you are either a big fan of Mantic on the internet and know as little as we do about the actual facts, and how accurate or not the speculation is, or you know what goes on in Mantic's leadership meetings and are privvy to all of their plans.

By the way, I use the word "plans" not in some sort of Doctor Evil supervillan way, as you keep trying to Straw Man away, but in the way that adults use the word, as in making plans as any business, organisation or company does, as you do when planning your career path, and so forth.

It's simply critical thinking and not instantly believing everything that's told to you at face value by Mantic (or any company). Just the same as you hopefully don't believe everything that people tell you in person. People and entities use various means to manipulate others' opinions of them all the time. Nothing personal(?) towards Mantic. I went in with quite a lot of money on their KoW, and got in on this one quickly enough to get an Early Bird. I don't think they're an evil company made up of embittered ex-GW employees ripping off GW at every turn, and I think they definitely do have a healthier attitude to their players (and fans) than some others. I quite like them in fact. It doesn't mean they're beyond reproach though.

Buzzsaw - I think Kickstarter threads attract an extra level of criticism and scrutiny because of the nature of the beast. This isn't finding out about the new 40k Box set 2 week ago and talking about going to the shop to buy it this weekend. This (and all KS threads) are about "Give us your money now and we'll give you something cool later." If it's not reasonable to have an extra layer of scrutiny on this kind of situation, I don't know when it is.





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judgedoug wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Undead players controlled, most of the time, by nanotech, with reinforced exoskeletons. They feel no pain, have no fear, and play till they drop, literally.

Not a bad idea, as long as they pull it off so that there wouldn't be a billion cries of "TEY R NECRONZs!!! Mantic isa ripoff of GW!@" (while Stan Winston rolls in his grave and James Cameron rolls his eyes)

I didn't think of this. I actually find judgedoug's concept pretty cool. Though I pictured it more like sci-fi partially armoured skeletons/zombies. They would need helmets with bolts coming out of them instead of skull-helmets.

I'm glad there will be a female team.
I'm not terribly excited about paying another $20 for it before the concept art is even finished.

that's ok, people we're pledging on Kings of War without any concept art at all.

 scipio.au wrote:

judgedoug wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Undead players controlled, most of the time, by nanotech, with reinforced exoskeletons. They feel no pain, have no fear, and play till they drop, literally.

Not a bad idea, as long as they pull it off so that there wouldn't be a billion cries of "TEY R NECRONZs!!! Mantic isa ripoff of GW!@" (while Stan Winston rolls in his grave and James Cameron rolls his eyes)

I didn't think of this. I actually find judgedoug's concept pretty cool. Though I pictured it more like sci-fi partially armoured skeletons/zombies. They would need helmets with bolts coming out of them instead of skull-helmets.

It was adamsouza's idea, not mine I like the idea, too. Another thing to watch out for is not going too close to the Strain or the Dead Space monsters.

 Black Nexus wrote:
that's ok, people we're pledging on Kings of War without any concept art at all.

And that is madness. I feel like having a lot of the core models already done inspires a lot more confidence that the promised alternative sculpts and star players will materialize in a quality fashion. I feel like whoever is making these look like a 'take 2' on the Warpath releases and has worked out most of the scale/proportions/poses issues.

nkelsch wrote:
There is plenty of room for more human teams and alien species before we need to simply resort to 'fantasy in space' teams. We don't necessarily need space lizards, space elves, space undead and such... Maybe a cyborg team or a team based upon underworld gene splicing. Hell, even straight up 'greys' with big eyes or something would be fine. I would take 1950's looking lost in space robot team... just not any more fantasy in space!

Non-humanoid robots could work for training or spectacle matches (like Watson on Jeopardy!), but I don't think they'd work well for other play. Better to stick with robots with arms and legs than having the league try to work out if the pitching machine riding a segway is a fair match for a human.

One thing I thought of that could be fun, at least as a one-off, is a team made up of refurbished Ref-Bots. Maybe they'd be slightly worse players but make up for it by being less affected by facing (due to having a machine brain and eyes in the back of their heads).

 ironicsilence wrote:

More on topic...this game needs the female team....if only so that I can play the humans and have a female "QB" so I can recreate the Starship troopers team....also a Not Rico MVP (as already mentioned) would quickly shift this game into SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY

I would love that, as well as some other sci-fi sports-themed MVPs...

Like these guys.

Or Toe Pick.

nkelsch wrote:

There is plenty of room for more human teams and alien species before we need to simply resort to 'fantasy in space' teams. We don't necessarily need space lizards, space elves, space undead and such... Maybe a cyborg team or a team based upon underworld gene splicing. Hell, even straight up 'greys' with big eyes or something would be fine. I would take 1950's looking lost in space robot team... just not any more fantasy in space!

But I want a space-lizard MVP! Ooh, and a team of space(?) bears! Make this happen, Mantic!

Or, you know, stick to the theme and use some decent sci-fi concepts. If you happen to still have some clear blue or red acrylic left over, I hear energy beings are totally in right now.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:

More on topic...this game needs the female team....if only so that I can play the humans and have a female "QB" so I can recreate the Starship troopers team....also a Not Rico MVP (as already mentioned) would quickly shift this game into SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY

I would love that, as well as some other sci-fi sports-themed MVPs...

Like these guys.

Or Toe Pick.

Careful! You know what'll happen if they add a player with a chainsaw to the game!


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 scarletsquig wrote:

Wouldn't be surprised to see this end with around 90 minis total for the striker level, (8x10 mini teams + 8 MVPS + ref + trophy). Possibly even more, it all depends on how far it rolls.

Looks like it's now headed the other way - Stretch goals are adding the "extra players" to Striker, rather than the whole teams. Might get to 60ish if they follow this path now that they've switched from adding to Striker to add-ons for Striker. Clever though to still give 2 figures to Striker level pledges - so the extras act as encouragement for people to buy the whole/rest of the team as add-ons.

^ Well, there will already be 55 minis in striker after the next stretch is reached, with 3 weeks left to run.

And that's just with 175k pledged after 2 weeks.

70-80ish now seems more likely, but it really depends on what you expect the final result of the KS to be. I'm sticking to my 500k estimate, despite the slight mid-campaign slowdown.

The 2 free minis are a nice enough middle ground, especially for a short $20k stretch.

With teams up to 14 players, they can always go nuts in the last week/ few days and start chucking out a ton of +2 players! stretch goals to make it easy for them to add stretches without having to spread themselves too thin. There's still room for 2-4 more female human freebies if Mantic ends up with the capacity to do so (at which point paying the $20 extra to buy the team anyway becomes very appealing).

Another stretch goal to add another 2 mini to striker and another 2 minis to all purchases of the female team would be an extremely smart move.. since that would add incentive from both sides... wanting to have a use for those 4 minis in striker, and wanting to buy the team because it's a better deal, and take you up to your max of 14. All it takes is 1000 backers to really want to buy that extra team and all of a sudden you've raised another $20k for the total. Something similar could work for any future teams which get added.

We've already had something similar to that with MVPs being added to the FF and Veermyn teams bought as extras, so there's potential for that to happen again (although with extra players rather than MVPs added).

They'd have to be careful about the rules making their packing harder though, since you can never have more than double your starting team's quota of guards, jacks or strikers at any point... if the mini count goes over that then you're left with a mini you can't use.

Not one of the best rules, that... from what people are saying, bloodbowl had a similar problem of "unusable leftovers" when buying things... small gain for rules balance, large pain for buying the minis you need.

Of course, in Mantic's case it is highly likely that it'll end up being "small gain for rules balance, absolute nightmare for Mantic's warehouse staff" as they make sure no-one gets given illegal teams and also start selling individuals on their website.

I think people are being way to OCD about getting extra figures they cant use. Which is hysterical to me when you realize that they are end up with exactly that "problem" when they buy a second box of figures to fill out their Forgefarther,Veymen, and Female teams.

you *CAN* use them through the free agents rules in the rulebook or you can mix them into your corporation team. where's the fuss about getting models you can't use?

 Black Nexus wrote:
you *CAN* use them through the free agents rules in the rulebook or you can mix them into your corporation team. where's the fuss about getting models you can't use?

The potential (and to my mind minimal problem) is that a team can have no more than double the base players in each of the 3 slots, guard/striker/jack

so folk were worried if they got random figures added to a box they might end up with too many guards etc.

Mantic have promised that won't happen

They've also said they will revisit the FF & Vermyn to add some extras (so they are comparable with the orx and human teams), but the female team got moved ahead of this due to the demand for them

I follow the comments on the Kickstarter as well. There was discussion of it there a few days back.

In actual news:

The MDF board arrived at Mantic today. They hope to have pictures up later today.

The MDF board is one sided and the hex grid is cut and recessed rather than etched. Do you mean how thick (wide) are the cuts? 1mm thick. The hexes are 25mm, it's exactly the same size as the playing area on the main board.

Mantic is asking if people are interested in additional refbot models as an Add-On.

ah i see i don't think that'll be a problem, particularly if they've said they can avoid it happening.

I want to get my girlies though.

EDIT: new concept up through the update:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dreadball-the-futuristic-sports-game/posts/303243

A female team that matches the concept art in quality will make Mantic a lot of money.

As it is, the concept art alone will bring in a lot of additional backers!

Eh, the females don't look too different than the males... just seems like an alternative gender sculpt for the corp team, which is fine. I will wait to see what makes them 'LOL all bewbs' team. I would rather see all of the teams be co-ed and lets get females in all the teams as alternative sculpts.

Let's just power through to more other stuff. Give me s'more space aliens or crazy robots

I like the concept art


I know they want to stay away from big breasted bimbos, but this woman is anerexic and flat chested.

Ever seen the women's olympic volleyball team, or roller derby players ? They're curvier, and more muscular.

 adamsouza wrote:
I like the concept art
...

I know they want to stay away from big breasted bimbos, but this woman is anerexic and flat chested.

Ever seen the women's olympic volleyball team, or roller derby players ? They're curvier, and more muscular.

Uh, waa? I dunno which volleyball team you are referring to, but when I think of women's volleyball, I think of Misty May-Treanor and Kerri Walsh. They're not exactly busty.



Personally, the concept art is spot on to me, both in terms of aesthetics and in keeping with my impression of the highest tier female athletes (see above).

Gotta agree with Buzzsaw, athletes come in many shapes and sizes depending on what their needs are. Hell, even in your example of Roller Derby there is usually a big difference between a team's Jammer and their dedicated Blockers.



Personally I hope the concept is for a Striker, with Jacks and Guards being a little more muscley.

Google Girls VolleyBall and you will see hundreds of pics of athletic young women, with round booties and developed thigh muscles, that make that Dreadball player look like an anerexic twig in comparison. Remember that DB player is wrapped in protective gear She'd have to be supermodel thin, and that's not athletic.

Let me change it up, I hope that the female team has three different sized body types like the male team



That image is perfect. !

The 3 on the left should be impact sports players, while the 2 on the right are two frail. The girl in the concept image is built like the girl Olga, on the right, except with an even tiner waistline.

 adamsouza wrote:
Google Girls VolleyBall and you will see hundreds of pics of athletic young women, with round booties and developed thigh muscles...

I'm just going to imagine how that sounds when said aloud for a moment. There, that's good.

 adamsouza wrote:
That image is perfect. !

The 3 on the left should be impact sports players, while the 2 on the right are two frail. The girl in the concept image is built like the girl Olga, on the right, except with an even tiner waistline.

Not to belabor the obvious, but you realize that you think the stationary athletes should be impact athletes, while the women in the highest impact, more dangerous sport, you label "two[sic] frail".

Again, while I'm sure there are athletes that fit the model you propose, if one wants to (as you suggested) compare the figure to, say, the dominant female volleyball players for the last decade, they look fine to me.

The concept reminds me of this lass;


Feel free to tell her she's an anorexic twig. Might want to bring a bag for your teeth.

It's unusual to see a piece of artwork showing a woman in a game setting being criticised for not giving her the proportions of a glamour model...

Now, I just think you guys are screwing with me.

You can't seriously be arguing that gymnastic lass is going to last more than 3.2 seconds against the roid monsters on the 4 established teams.

 adamsouza wrote:
Now, I just think you guys are screwing with me.

You can't seriously be arguing that gymnastic lass is going to last more than 3.2 seconds against the roid monsters on the 4 established teams.

I'm pointing out the attributes of real women. I'm not entirely sure one can make "serious" arguments about kinesiology in a game universe where one team is giant rats...

In any case, this is an unwarranted diversion, I'll stop feeding the detours and simply say "I like the concept art".

I'd suggest that the concept art is simply a bit too thin. I don't think "flat-chested" is much of an issue, and I like the fact that she's not over-developed in the bust, but I do think she's a bit too wasp-waisted, when you take into consideration she's supposed to be wearing armour (even tight armour) over her skin. I think Buzzsaw's pic of the volleyball players illustrates it well - they're lithe and muscular, and while their waists are toned and don't have an inch of fat on them, they aren't tiny wasp-waists either.

I'd also second the idea of having multiple body types for the different positions.

It's a 28mm miniature, you have to exaggerate the proportions a little or its just going to look like a dude with boobs.

Obviously, not exaggerate it too much, otherwise it just looks horrible. Think they've found a nice balance here.

This is nothing compared to the forgefather team which would be brilliant sculpts if their hands weren't the same size as their torsos... that's the one gigantic big flaw in all of Roberto's latest non-human concept art that constantly gets repeated, if anything is muscled, he gives it hands that are torso-sized, just like one of those godawful PP hordes minis where the hands make up 60% of the model's mass. I'm surprised no-one in this thread has mentioned that so far and are instead fussing over whether the female waist should be 2mm thicker. GW went through its "hammy mchamfist" phase for about 8 years or so before toning things down, I'd prefer it if Mantic skipped it entirely.

I'm totally fine with heroic scale proportions for DreadBall, since you can write it off as genetic enhancements for the sport, but hopefully the style doesn't cross over into the Warpath range.

That's a fair point about the Forgefathers' hands, though I was just looking at them in the same way as the PP figures, or the Incredible Hulk. Their clothing choices bother me more, TBH.

While I agree that some exaggeration is necessary for the scale, having the waists too tiny and the models too skinny (as in the concept art) will make them look non-human. And we all know how well their elves went down, don't we?

Just thought I'd point it out since this debate is going down the road of "the girls need to be giants or the roid monsters will eat them".

No-one is considering the fact that the roid monster sculpts might be at fault there!

Both the Orx and the Forgefathers are massively "hulked out" compared to the Warpath minis (which are extremely nice true-scale sculpts once you ignore the fantasy parts), and I imagine the Veer-Myn guard will be too.

Besides, the male team is pretty much all at standard size/proportions for humans (with different armour for the strikers, guards and jacks), it would look weird to have the females chunkier/taller than they are.

I was looking at them in comparison to the Corp team, who are pretty bulky in comparison. And while man are bulkier than women in general, we're talking about athletes that should be comparably proportioned considering they're playing the same sport in the same positions.

Maybe smaller overall, but comparably proportioned.