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Hashulaman wrote:That thing about Boon of Chaos, would that count to squad leaders as well? Or can only IC's benefit/have to be killed in a challenge for the boon table to work

It says target Character doesn't it? So i'd assume it applies to Sergents and what not.

Sigmundr wrote:

Here we go.

Nope

Okay, that image is up on the previous page now. I'm on a work computer, so getting all that to work was much harder than it should have been, lol.

Thanks for the pic and the confirmation Sigmundr

Awsome thanks for posting that Sigmundr.

On top of these new stats, a DP can use a DW now......Wow okay. I honestly thought Daemon princes would at best stay the same, if not get nerfed or even removed from the Codex. Im curious is if you have Typhus or Ahriman turning into one for some reason. They loose their war gear and pyskik powers? What if a Generic lord rolls and gets it? Does he loose what he had already? Does he gain psykik powers?

So far we haven't seen the full details page for the Boon table, only the summary, so we don't have concrete information on the Dark Apotheosis process.

Daemon Princes took a big hit in usefulness. The average winged prince with a mark won't go for less than 210 points, which is approaching Land Raider cost.

He also has no natural armor save, is still only T5 and 4 wounds (weaker compared to other recent MCs), and not an Eternal warrior, so learn to fear Vindicator shells and IG artillery.

The Elite FOC slot is hilariously crowded.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
I plan on doing the following with my helldrake



Just leave the head off and do some wire wrapping. Done.

love it

 XT-1984 wrote:

CleverAntics wrote:
Have to remember Nurgle can make him T6, so not all is lost. Also, I don't think it was here, but I read somewhere else that he may have access to Daemon Weapons...would be interesting if true.

Actually the Mark of Nurgle just gives Daemon Princes Shrouded and Slow and Purposeful.

Wrong. Mark still apply their normal bonuses, in the case of Nurgle, giving a DP plus one toughness. In addition to this Daemon Prince have extra bonuses depending on their mark, which for Nurgle is Shrouded and S&P.

It is amazing to me how much misinformation is floating around in this thread, simply because people can't even be bothered to read the information available in it's entirety. People read half a sentence of rules and their knee jerks so hard they put their foot in their mouth.

About the DP eternal warrior, stay calm guys... he has the Daemon special rules that gives him also eternal warrior iirc....

Ops... I'm wrong... It only gives fear and a 5++ uhmmm.... this is annoying


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw I'm pretty excited... the codex seems to be FULL of options and this is what CSM need!!!

Yeah, I'm probably just looking at all this in the wrong light, I'm just pretty disappointed by the CSM entry, but I'm probably just looking at it with the wrong idea in my head.

75 points for a Champion and 4 CSM with only bolters is interesting. 13 points for each model after that is sorta cool. I'm not sure they are going to really work as a better alternative for rapid fire range rushing troops. The LD really hurts that, but maybe the apostle or a lord could come into there.

I'm also pretty sure they don't get more than 2 special weapons per squad no matter how big they get. That's a sadness. Maybe there's still a way to turn them into a good big CC meatgrinder through characters and marks though.

I guess cultists and cult heavy infantry will have to pull some weight in the troops department because normal csm seem hard to sharpen into a really effective point in this environment. Maybe I'm missing something, my mind is still open. Demon princes are something I'm very dubious but curious about too!

 punkow wrote:
About the DP eternal warrior, stay calm guys... he has the Daemon special rules that gives him also eternal warrior iirc

no it does not. as the codex chaos space marine will follow the rule daemon from the rulebook it will only grant him a 5+ invulnerable save and fear.
the eternal warrior rule is only in the codex chaos daemons and as such only applies to them.

even though the DP will lose his 4+ while beeing a DP of tzeentch i think it will still be a nice unit to play with. my setup will be running at 255 points wich is pretty high i know but that guy got the potential to get stronger while fthe battle goes on. thanks to the psychic dicipline of tzeentch he is able to buff himself up with boon of mutation. granting him rolls on the gift chart. couple that with the character status and his ability to challenge and let him farm himself up to godhood.

i know this sounds easier than you can actually do it.. yes the DP got more expensive and cant take that much of a beating than before but as a daemons of chaos player who has to invest heavily in order to increase the potential of a DP i think i will be fine with my thousand sons aswell.

 Starfarer wrote:

 XT-1984 wrote:

CleverAntics wrote:
Have to remember Nurgle can make him T6, so not all is lost. Also, I don't think it was here, but I read somewhere else that he may have access to Daemon Weapons...would be interesting if true.

Actually the Mark of Nurgle just gives Daemon Princes Shrouded and Slow and Purposeful.

Wrong. Mark still apply their normal bonuses, in the case of Nurgle, giving a DP plus one toughness. [/i]In addition[/i] to this Daemon Prince have extra bonuses depending on their mark, which for Nurgle is Shrouded and S&P.

It is amazing to me how much misinformation is floating around in this thread, simply because people can't even be bothered to read the information available in it's entirety. People read half a sentence of rules and their knee jerks so hard they put their foot in their mouth.

I had reread it, and in fact, the Daemon Prince CANNOT take a Mark...very strange...he can only 'upgrade' to a Daemon of X God. I suppose the only way it is possible is through the Artefacts or what have you, if even at all.

yeah... i acknowledged i was wrong in my own post...

 Starfarer wrote:

 XT-1984 wrote:

CleverAntics wrote:
Have to remember Nurgle can make him T6, so not all is lost. Also, I don't think it was here, but I read somewhere else that he may have access to Daemon Weapons...would be interesting if true.

Actually the Mark of Nurgle just gives Daemon Princes Shrouded and Slow and Purposeful.

Wrong. Mark still apply their normal bonuses, in the case of Nurgle, giving a DP plus one toughness. [/i]In addition[/i] to this Daemon Prince have extra bonuses depending on their mark, which for Nurgle is Shrouded and S&P.

It is amazing to me how much misinformation is floating around in this thread, simply because people can't even be bothered to read the information available in it's entirety. People read half a sentence of rules and their knee jerks so hard they put their foot in their mouth.

Oh the irony.



You'll notice that the Daemon Prince entry says: "must be upgraded to be a:". Whereas the Chaos Sorcerer entry says: "May take a Mark of Chaos from the Wargear list".

btw.. my guess is that the DP got LD 9 because of veteran of the old war. nowhere is stated that he got the bonus in his profile and most likely wont be in his own unit page.

Edit: Fail reading skills. Disregard.

Meh. DP takes the EW hit atm, but I believe we'll likely see a wargear item that grants EW. If that's so.. he becomes worth a lot of points once more, especially if you give him a powerful weapon... that's a stat line to rival a Tyrants easily enough, maybe with some upgrades go toe to toe with an Avatar and actually have odds, rather than just plain luck.

I felt a little sick when I saw the LD drop. It had been rumoured, but I still couldn't believe it. That was always one of the CSM's 'things', alas, if it cost's 1/2pts to get veterans of the long war per model.. it's alright.

Chaos Vehicles have all of a sudden become incredibly hardy, daemon, many HP's.. looking good.

Special Characters seem to be an overall 'meh'. They're strong, but they've been hit with striking last or unfulfilled potential compared to some of their loyalist counterparts (remember these are the new staple big bads - tyranids and c'tan step aside, so really for every drago, meph etc there should be a CSM character to equal them). This applies to all (inc Abby) save maybe Ahriman assuming he still has a forceweapon, although I am disappointed neither of them warranted a 3++, especially considering Abby might start attacking at I and WS 1.

Berserkers... wth actually happened there? LD8, 1 attack? *slaps forehead*.. talk about getting nerfed. I am happy with everything so far, its coming across as a way way better shake then we got last time but those berserker rules are the biggest disappointment i've seen for years.

Have we seen the page that outlines what a "daemon of x" entails? I don't recall that from the 4chan/warseer page, but I'm probably wrong.

*edit* Zerkers are now ALL about getting the charge. I believe the mark+icon combo gives them furious charge + rage, for +1 str, rerolling charge distance via fleet, and +2 attacks on said charge instead of 1. They also got counterattack and something else I believe. Kind of comes out in the wash, really.

Sigmundr wrote:
Have we seen the page that outlines what a "daemon of x" entails? I don't recall that from the 4chan/warseer page, but I'm probably wrong.

yup here they are :

Demon of Khorne: Hatred (Demons of Slaanesh), Furious Charge
Demon of Slaanesh: Hatred (Demons of Khorne), Rending, Fleet of Foot, runs +3 inches
Demon of Nurgle: Hatred (Demons of Tzeentch), Slow and Purposefull, Shrouded
Demon of Tzeentch: Hatred (Demons of Nurgle), May Reroll all saves of 1

So any chance of more pictures like that from the codex...?

 Exergy wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
I plan on doing the following with my helldrake



Just leave the head off and do some wire wrapping. Done.

love it

I found my Heldrake conversion. That's fantastic.

Palindrome wrote:
Dps have to pay for power armour now. A DP with a MoN and power armour is 180 points...

I think I will be using a lord.

Its still cheaper then the DP i had with the 3.5 dex..., i never had a DP under the bare of the 205pts...

Please, more pics. Anything on any new special characters? What about the Warp Talons. Would love to see their rules.

Mat

Thanks, souba. I thought I saw it somewhere. (Like the first page!)

There is a lot we aren't seeing. Their might be a line that states daemons of x benefit from the associated marks. That would be rather beastly, as the slaaneshi then gets FNP in addition to rending and fleet +3 on the run. Which means that probably isn't the case.


It's a give and take, really. The way a good codex should be written. Oct. 6 just can't come fast enough.

 XT-1984 wrote:

Oh the irony.

You'll notice that the Daemon Prince entry says: "must be upgraded to be a:". Whereas the Chaos Sorcerer entry says: "May take a Mark of Chaos from the Wargear list".

And we know the full rules for Daemon Princes, without seeing their entry? It is very likely that becoming a Daemon Prince of X, reads something like, "unit has the Mark of X, in addition to the following special rules for daemon princes". It would be unprecedented for units aligned with a god to not get similar base upgrades, more likely, since it is unique to Daemon Princes, it differs from a standard mark by applying the additional rules.

My general point about this, is that people are drawing conclusions on incomplete information, and people are having knee jerk reactions to it.

From what I've seen, Zerks end up being;

WS 5, 2 attacks, 4 when they charge, 3 when charged, Furious Charge and Fearless...well that's got a lot going for it. Can they take a FNP banner too?

FNP Icon is units with the Mark of Slaanesh only.

Ahh ok, thanks--what is the Khorne specific icon? Reroll charge distance?

XT could you tell me how chosen operate? same as last codex? super expensive or moderate for what they do. And is it true that Abbadon makes them troops?