Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

scopes could increase range by X inchs or increase BS. im more leaning towards increased range.

it wouldn't be alot but for it could increase the range by about half of the normal range. like a 24 inch lasgun can hit at 36 inch now.

 Engine of War wrote:
scopes could increase range by X inchs or increase BS. im more leaning towards increased range.

it wouldn't be alot but for it could increase the range by about half of the normal range. like a 24 inch lasgun can hit at 36 inch now.

Not even, it would be more like 30 inch range, like fire warriors.

 Engine of War wrote:
scopes could increase range by X inchs or increase BS. im more leaning towards increased range.

it wouldn't be alot but for it could increase the range by about half of the normal range. like a 24 inch lasgun can hit at 36 inch now.

Firewarriors with a range similar to a lascannon.

 dalsiandon wrote:
There is a lot of potential, of course with wysiwyg I have a lot of scopes already that may really up the cost of my force depending on the role the scope does.

The +1BS seems popular, but what about adding rending to a scoped weapon instead? Thats how the sniper rifles work in the game. Any ranged weapon with a scope has the rending special rule. That could even work on overwatch i'd think.

Holy Bolters with Rending, Batman. I like Ovion's. But, of course, Tyranids don't get scopes, anyway. :|

Also; Orks could conceivably just stick scopes to weapons and become more accurate with them. As in, attach a scope to a Shoota and any shots made with that Shoota are now more accurate, even though the Ork is just blindly firing it from the hip. Scope make 'em shoot more straigta. So, more scopes = more accuracy. Behold the Waaagh! Painting the lens makes it even more effective.

EDIT: Oooh, Firewarrior rending.

 chrisrawr wrote:
1 scope is good, 2 is better. Working as intended for orks.

Called Binoculars.

You can choose to fire your gun at Heavy 1 to get +1BS and Precision Shots, which is basically what using a scope does - lets you be more accurate at the cost of speed

This'll do. But should Xenos really get it?

All of my ork burnas have scopes on them. Ironically, none of my lootas have scopes on them.

 phantommaster wrote:

You can choose to fire your gun at Heavy 1 to get +1BS and Precision Shots, which is basically what using a scope does - lets you be more accurate at the cost of speed

This'll do. But should Xenos really get it?

Sure why not, certain ones like the Tau and Eldar for certain. Orks..eh...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 dalsiandon wrote:
There is a lot of potential, of course with wysiwyg I have a lot of scopes already that may really up the cost of my force depending on the role the scope does.

The +1BS seems popular, but what about adding rending to a scoped weapon instead? Thats how the sniper rifles work in the game. Any ranged weapon with a scope has the rending special rule. That could even work on overwatch i'd think.

Holy Bolters with Rending, Batman. I like Ovion's. But, of course, Tyranids don't get scopes, anyway. :|

Also; Orks could conceivably just stick scopes to weapons and become more accurate with them. As in, attach a scope to a Shoota and any shots made with that Shoota are now more accurate, even though the Ork is just blindly firing it from the hip. Scope make 'em shoot more straigta. So, more scopes = more accuracy. Behold the Waaagh! Painting the lens makes it even more effective.

EDIT: Oooh, Firewarrior rending.

The way to temper it I would think is on shots that are not done via rapid fire. But again potential.

That's why I said use of the scope makes the weapon heavy Heavy 1.

I think a better rule would be to say you can re-roll failed to hit rolls of 1 when shooting.

You don't want scopes to be a massive part of the game (at least, I don't think you would), just a nice little extra that some squads can take. Perhaps also, this bonus would not be allowed when firing Overwatch (as you don't really have time to look down your scope)

I dunno. Maybe scopes could make the weapon some kind of sniper rifle for a pointed upgrade.

 phantommaster wrote:

This'll do. But should Xenos really get it?

Probably should be a faction specific upgrade (read: everyone but Orks and Daemons)
Tau, Imperium, CSM, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons: Actual scopes, or in some cases, perhaps targeters built into their helmets or other systems
Tyranids: Some sort of biomorph, perhaps they are created to have eyesight better than an eagle.
Orks/Daemons: The former probably would get too big a boost from them (they rely on volume anyway and will have 1 in 3 of their hits be precision hits on average), or in the case of daemons, no real benefits and it would make little sense.

Hey, Bloodletters could use scopes on their swords!

Secondly, though; rending is too much for a small upgrade. Large squad of Firewarriors with BS4 and Rending.

I mean, the Tau need a boost, certainly, but rending is no small thing!

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Hey, Bloodletters could use scopes on their swords!

Secondly, though; rending is too much for a small upgrade. Large squad of Firewarriors with BS4 and Rending.

I mean, the Tau need a boost, certainly, but rending is no small thing!

Which is why I have been suggesting +1 BS, Heavy 1, (same strength and range), and 6s to hit are precision shots. Sure you could hit a specific model with 12 Str 5 shots, but with a squad of 12 FW you will only average 2.

Oh hell my Grenadiers all have scoped rifles by default and are already BS4, still buff them please.

To many of the wrong units would be buffed by this proposition, I think it is a bad idea

off topic: Bobthehero, after months of looking at your signature I finally realized it is a grey knight wearing as SoB head.

 Lord Magnus wrote:
To many of the wrong units would be buffed by this proposition, I think it is a bad idea

It isn't that big a boost really. You still need to pay for it (I guess it will be a 2-3 point upgrade on average), and in the end all it does is trade mobility for a decreased rate of fire, a slightly greater accuracy, and the minor possibility of getting to allocate the wounds yourself. Either way there will still be restrictions, heavy weapons can't get scopes (they count as heavy anyway), certain units won't have access to them at all (Ork Boyz probably won't get them, Nobs or Kommandos might, perhaps Lootas or Flash Gitz since their guns become heavy 1, taking away lootas' rate of fire and making Flash Gitz better all around), special weapons might not get them (for example a squad of vets armed with plasma guns has a good chance of killing a specific IC in a few turns by getting precision hits, or at least ripping apart terminators at long range with BS 5 plasma guns).

If scopes had rules why wouldn't marine helms with scopes/scanners also gain benefits?

Ork Mek models have Kustom Force Feild generators built into their skulls.

Gretchin have more than one gun or an additional hand weapon. No rules for it though.

Same goes for dozens of units. The scopes on bolters are just further representation of BS4.

 Lord Magnus wrote:
off topic: Bobthehero, after months of looking at your signature I finally realized it is a grey knight wearing as SoB head.

Ah ah Took me a while to figure it out as well when I first saw that pic.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Lord Magnus wrote:
off topic: Bobthehero, after months of looking at your signature I finally realized it is a grey knight wearing as SoB head.

Ah ah Took me a while to figure it out as well when I first saw that pic.

I meant avatar, not sig, sorry.

 Ovion wrote:

 Testify wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
Just +1 BS doesn't make huge amounts of sense imo.

Neither does adding an entirely new incredibly complicated rule.

How is it incredibly complicated? XD

You can choose to fire your gun at Heavy 1 to get +1BS and Precision Shots, which is basically what using a scope does - lets you be more accurate at the cost of speed.

Straight +1 BS without costing 5 or 10 points is overpowered, and +1BS for one turn a game is a bit ish.

How about it give a re-roll of Six and leave the weapons as is?

This 'Heavy 1' thing would make Lascannons happy puppies.

I all for adding an extra 6" to the max range of the weapon, though I don't think it should affect rapid fire range.

Either that or re-rolling all 1's. Giving it +1BS seems too big a jump for me, though I would be stoked that my Dire Avengers would be hitting on 2's

Same for stormtroopers and kasrkins, but only those with hotshots, eh.

Re rolling 1's would effectively bypass Gets hot.

Plasma guns aren't scoped

Scoped weapons don't fire homing bullets really. TBH, it would need a point cost, and not every unit should be able to take them. 50 guardsmen for example armed with scopes with whatever shooting bonus is decided seems a little far.

Scopes really, really do just increase accuracy at the cost of speed and mobility.
There's no increase in range or anything.

Wargear:
Telescopic Sight (Scope): Any Non-Vehicle and Non-Monstrous Creature model may select a Scope for any Non-Template Pistol, Rapid Fire or Assault weapon for 2pts per weapon.
Any model that has a Telescopic Sight may choose to fire a weapon equipped with a scope using the following profile:
Range: As Weapon, Str: As Weapon, AP: As weapon, Type: Heavy 1, Precision Shots.
Special Rules: The model using the scope gains +1 BS until the end of the turn.

Heavy Telescopic Sight (Heavy Scope): Any Non-Vehicle and Non-Monstrous Creature model may select a Heavy Scope for any Heavy weapon for 5pts per weapon.
Any model that has a Heavy Telescopic Sight may choose to fire a weapon equipped with a scope using the following profile:
Range: As Weapon, Str: As Weapon, AP: As weapon, Type: Heavy 1, Precision Shots.
Special Rules: The model using the scope gains +1 BS until the end of the turn.

How about models with Telescopic sights can shoot at -1 BS And pick out a target they want?

Also, as any budding COD player (Sarcasm) would know, you get a crosshair on your screen if you use an ACOG scope, so they should be so much better than standard sniper rifle scopes.

My best suggestion is make scopes an alternate fire mode: +6" range, Heavy 1, pick targets on a roll of 6 to hit. Simple, logical, easy to remember, relatively balanced. May require a +2-3pt increase in cost depending on the weapon and the BS of the firing model.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
My best suggestion is make scopes an alternate fire mode: +6" range, Heavy 1, pick targets on a roll of 6 to hit. Simple, logical, easy to remember, relatively balanced. May require a +2-3pt increase in cost depending on the weapon and the BS of the firing model.

This is what I thought when I saw the thread.

I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this, but I really hate the idea of scopes increasing BS and/or being a low cost point upgrade. It just seems like it'd be mandatory for every single unit with guns. So why not just either:

a) buff everyone who would obviously take them accordingly

or

b) Ignore the whole thing and continue as normal (the logical one)