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I don't like that random psyker guy AT ALL. Every turn, you roll for what category he can use and then roll for what spells he can use. Lots of unnecessary and prolonging rolling involved here.

Which is what makes the Fabius enhanced unit so fascinating. In an edition that is all about random rolling cinematic gameplay, Fabius is the least random cinematic thing in there.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:Honestly you're just better off with allied Imperial Guard most of the time. That being said you can get 30 Cultists with 3 Heavy Stubbers for 145 points so it's not terrible, but considering I can get 30 Guard with tons of weapons and orders and all of that for not that much more, Cultists don't seem that great.

Comparing Cultists to Guardsmen though is folly as they fulfil completely different roles. Remember that Guardsmen make the backbone of an IG army, and are expected to kill at least some stuff. The same is not true of Cultists who are nothing more than a supporting meatshield, hence them being only 2/3 the cost of a Guardsman.

 Rbb wrote:
What happens if someone rolls on the table and becomes a daemon prince? Does he retain any marks, daemon weapons, psychic powers, other gear he already had?

If a model becomes a DP, he retains his mark in the form of being a 'Daemon of' and has Chaos Armour regardless, but loses everything else.

So what happens if the Lord didn't have a mark and he becomes a daemon prince?

Crazy, i know, but i'm a fluff nut, so my Iron warriors are likely going to be undivided, even though its seems more effective to dedicate yourself to one of the four.

The table implodes and you burst into flames. Also you lose.

Crazy, i know, but i'm a fluff nut, so my Iron warriors are likely going to be undivided, even though its seems more effective to dedicate yourself to one of the four.

Although it may seem like a bit of a cop-out, you could always do what I do, take a Mark but justify it from an Iron Warriors perspective. For example, I have a unit of Khorne Bezerkers, but they're not really bezerkers, they're a dedicated "breach unit", trained to charge into the breached defenses as soon as an opening appears. To do so, they need to be as good in CQC as possible, and can't be afraid to charge in whilst the ordnance is still flying through the air, hence the Fearless.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

Crazy, i know, but i'm a fluff nut, so my Iron warriors are likely going to be undivided, even though its seems more effective to dedicate yourself to one of the four.

Although it may seem like a bit of a cop-out, you could always do what I do, take a Mark but justify it from an Iron Warriors perspective. For example, I have a unit of Khorne Bezerkers, but they're not really bezerkers, they're a dedicated "breach unit", trained to charge into the breached defenses as soon as an opening appears. To do so, they need to be as good in CQC as possible, and can't be afraid to charge in whilst the ordnance is still flying through the air, hence the Fearless.

Huh, that's a cool idea. I think i'll adopt it and avoid the aforementioned table combustion.

EDIT: although i'm still curious to know what happens when an undivided lord gets lucky.

Khârn's stats, wargear and special rules? Is he any good?

Any word on if Abaddon can make more then one squad of Chosen Troops?
What kind of options can you give Chosen? Do they suffer from the same issue as Terminators in taking an upgrade CCW and Ranged weapon?
Any dedicated Transport options for Chosen?

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

Crazy, i know, but i'm a fluff nut, so my Iron warriors are likely going to be undivided, even though its seems more effective to dedicate yourself to one of the four.

Although it may seem like a bit of a cop-out, you could always do what I do, take a Mark but justify it from an Iron Warriors perspective. For example, I have a unit of Khorne Bezerkers, but they're not really bezerkers, they're a dedicated "breach unit", trained to charge into the breached defenses as soon as an opening appears. To do so, they need to be as good in CQC as possible, and can't be afraid to charge in whilst the ordnance is still flying through the air, hence the Fearless.

I did the same thing. There are "kind of" Iron Warrior berzerkers in the book Storm of Iron so i dont mind fielding them. I used to give my DP MoN and justify it by the amount of augmentations he has (Dreadnought siege arm, warboss powerclaw and a Valk engine Jump-pack for "wings")

 Lord Harrab wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:Honestly you're just better off with allied Imperial Guard most of the time. That being said you can get 30 Cultists with 3 Heavy Stubbers for 145 points so it's not terrible, but considering I can get 30 Guard with tons of weapons and orders and all of that for not that much more, Cultists don't seem that great.

Comparing Cultists to Guardsmen though is folly as they fulfil completely different roles. Remember that Guardsmen make the backbone of an IG army, and are expected to kill at least some stuff. The same is not true of Cultists who are nothing more than a supporting meatshield, hence them being only 2/3 the cost of a Guardsman.

 Rbb wrote:
What happens if someone rolls on the table and becomes a daemon prince? Does he retain any marks, daemon weapons, psychic powers, other gear he already had?

If a model becomes a DP, he retains his mark in the form of being a 'Daemon of' and has Chaos Armour regardless, but loses everything else.

So what happens if the Lord didn't have a mark and he becomes a daemon prince?

Crazy, i know, but i'm a fluff nut, so my Iron warriors are likely going to be undivided, even though its seems more effective to dedicate yourself to one of the four.

I don't know what the problem is.

The rule reads.

IF the champion had a mark of chaos, the daemon prince is instead a daemon of the same chaos god.

Note the IF.

Do they clarify if the standard twin linked bolter, now a combi bolter I guess, on a rhino is pintle mounted or not?

I'm a bit miffed at the lack of cohesion between Icons and summoning Daemons, but at least they clarify that the icon is on an individual.

I'm honestly disappointed by these rules. They seem quite rushed, some things don't make sense.

It seems the mechitendrils was optional at one point from wordings, and dark apostle can take long war despite having LD10 and Hatred (Everything)

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
Any word on if Abaddon can make more then one squad of Chosen Troops?
What kind of options can you give Chosen? Do they suffer from the same issue as Terminators in taking an upgrade CCW and Ranged weapon?
Any dedicated Transport options for Chosen?

Says "units of chosen" are troops - plural, so it's all of 'em

Yes, they have the same restriction - 4 of them may take either a plasma pistol, or a melee weapon or a ranged weapon. However one can also choose from an extended ranged weapon list outside of that selection, so I guess you can have 1 model per squad that has a ranged weapon and a melee weapon.

Rhino only.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:
Any word on if Abaddon can make more then one squad of Chosen Troops?
What kind of options can you give Chosen? Do they suffer from the same issue as Terminators in taking an upgrade CCW and Ranged weapon?
Any dedicated Transport options for Chosen?

There's a little mention on chosen quite early in this thread. I think they said he makes all chosen troops, and 4 per squad can upgrade to crazy CCW or ranged, I'm not sure if they have the same OR problem as termies. And they'll have rhinos.

Thanks a lot for clarifying guys. Pretty cool Abaddon can make multiple Chosen Squads Troops, could be interesting. Though it is a shame it's melee or ranged for the 4 potential upgrades and no Land Raider.

Lord Harrab wrote:So what happens if the Lord didn't have a mark and he becomes a daemon prince?

He becomes a Daemon Prince with Power Armour, that's it.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Khârn's stats, wargear and special rules? Is he any good?

Kharn is quite beastly now. He hates everything, meaning his 1's to hit can be re-rolled before they butcher his mates, he stills hits on 2's, strikes at S6 AP2 at initiative, and him and his unit get a 2+ DTW. Oh, and he is immune to being Force Weapon'ed.

Voodoo_Chile wrote:Any word on if Abaddon can make more then one squad of Chosen Troops?
What kind of options can you give Chosen? Do they suffer from the same issue as Terminators in taking an upgrade CCW and Ranged weapon?
Any dedicated Transport options for Chosen?

Yes he can, don't know why anyone would assume otherwise.

Same option as before, but with the option of upgrading their CCW if they don't take special weapons, just like the Terminators, but unlike the Terminators, it isn't a suffering because even though they are good in combat, their primary role will be Marine killing at range.

They can take a Rhino.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Voodoo_Chile wrote:Any word on if Abaddon can make more then one squad of Chosen Troops?
What kind of options can you give Chosen? Do they suffer from the same issue as Terminators in taking an upgrade CCW and Ranged weapon?
Any dedicated Transport options for Chosen?

Yes he can, don't know why anyone would assume otherwise.

They can take a Rhino.

Yeah my apologies, I was running under the assumption that it was like an upgrade from Abaddon to one Chosen squad rather than a change to the FOC.

Any word on if a Chaos Lord on a bike will allow you to take Chaos Bikers as troops?

He doesn't. The FOC altering options have been all named and known for awhile now, nothing new on that front.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
He doesn't. The FOC altering options have been all named and known for awhile now, nothing new on that front.

Damn ah well, thank you for the info. Hopefully I'll have my codex early next week and see how this yoke plays.

Can dreadnoughts/hellbrutes take havoc launchers again like they could in 2nd edition?

No, just a missile launcher like in 5th.

Wait, if you can't take a ranged and a cow upgrade for chosen, isn't the new $20 aspiring champ unusable ?

 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
Wait, if you can't take a ranged and a cow upgrade for chosen, isn't the new $20 aspiring champ unusable ?

No, you could play him as an Aspiring Champion.

 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
cow upgrade

There is no cow upgrade.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
And the Chaos Termie box just got that much crappier to boot!

Almost all my Combi-Melta guys have Chainfists. I have a lot of Combi-Flamer/Lightning Claw or Combi-Flamer/Power Fist guys. And I have a random assortment of heavies, combi-bolters and other weapons.

I foresee this being one of the first things in the FAQ, something along the lines of:

"Change the sentence in Chaos Terminators to say 'Each model may replace their ranged weapon and/or close combat weapon with one of the following..."

Here's hoping! Are you teasing me or do you really think it will be fixed? I'm like you I have 20 Terminators and only the Fist/Bolter guys are legal now...

anyone got the skinny on arhimin and the thousand sons? What lv psycher arhiman is, or how many witchfire can he shoot a trurn? what is the inv sv on thousand sons? what is the I on thousand sons? W on son? I read they still have ap3 bolters this is with soulfire to? at the same points cost? is arhimin the same points cost? can defilers take marks?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Khârn's stats, wargear and special rules? Is he any good?

He is pretty close to identical to before... I think he lost an attack (though makes up for it in the first round of combat via Rage/Counterattack.) Still has a Plasma Pistol and Gorechild. He is S5 base, S6 with Gorechild, S7 with Furious Charge,and Gorechild still messes up vehicles pretty bad (Armorbane, AP2.) Still hits on 2+, and hits a random friendly within 6" on a 1. No longer immune to psychic, just immune to Force Weapons and denies the witch on 2+. Still 3+/5++, no Eternal Warrior. His biggest buff, though, is that he auto-gets the Hatred Incarnate warlord trait, which gives him and his unit Hatred. Hatred lets you reroll missed attacks in the first round of combat - which means the round he charges, very low chance of him killing his own guys. Instead, he should wreck most everything he's up against, at I5.

So overall... lots of offense, not much defense, still a decent choice for the points (which are almost the same, and might even be a few points cheaper.)

No Marks for vehicles, Ahriman is Mastery 4, he makes 1k sons troops, Sons have inferno bolts and can take an icon to get soul blaze, looking again, his Warlord Trait gives d3 units infiltrate, he can fire 3 witchfire powers and generate powers from Tzeentch, as well as Biomancy, Pyromancy, and Telepathy. IIRC, Ahriman is cheaper than before, 1k Sons are the same cost, same invul, actually pretty much entirely the same, except the rule changes to Slow and Purposeful, as well as fearless, plus the new Psyker stuff, makes them great, rather than so iffy. 1k sons are I4 like all marines, and 1 wound.

rothrich wrote:
anyone got the skinny on arhimin and the thousand sons? What lv psycher arhiman is, or how many witchfire can he shoot a trurn? what is the inv sv on thousand sons? what is the I on thousand sons? W on son? I read they still have ap3 bolters this is with soulfire to? at the same points cost? is arhimin the same points cost? can defilers take marks?

Ahriman = Psyker Level 4, up to 3 Witchfires a turn.

Thousands Sons = 4++, I4, 1W, AP3 Bolters. Icon can gvie them Soulblaze. Around the same points, with the sorcerer I think getting a bit cheaper.

No marks for defilers.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
Wait, if you can't take a ranged and a cow upgrade for chosen, isn't the new $20 aspiring champ unusable ?

No, you could play him as an Aspiring Champion.

 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
cow upgrade

There is no cow upgrade.

my computer autocorrects everything

Unless they make a new chosen/marine box, his look is completely different and will look strange in a normal squad, but he cant go with the DV chosen because of his upgrades.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:Honestly you're just better off with allied Imperial Guard most of the time. That being said you can get 30 Cultists with 3 Heavy Stubbers for 145 points so it's not terrible, but considering I can get 30 Guard with tons of weapons and orders and all of that for not that much more, Cultists don't seem that great.

Comparing Cultists to Guardsmen though is folly as they fulfil completely different roles. Remember that Guardsmen make the backbone of an IG army, and are expected to kill at least some stuff. The same is not true of Cultists who are nothing more than a supporting meatshield, hence them being only 2/3 the cost of a Guardsman.

Fair enough on that point, though I'm still not entirely convinced that Conscripts couldn't do a better job at the meatshield role. And to be honest, a unit of 35 Cultists with a Chaos Lord or Sorcerer doesn't sound terrible! I'd do a Level 3 MoN Sorcerer with 2 Biomancy spells and then 35 cultists with 3 Heavy Stubbers. Should be pretty hard to take down. Could debatably take the Mark of Nurgle but then they're 6 points per model, so basically Orks.