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So, I have been enjoying Warmachine, but I've gotten the itch for Warhammer 40k these past few days. I put 40k on pause about when the Blood Angels came out…which was a long time ago… so I've missed a lot…

So, I'm pondering changes to my old Biker list.

Old 5th Edition List:

Captain (Bike, Relic Blade, Storm Shield).
8 Bikers, Power Fist, 2 Meltas, Heavy Bolter Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, Power Fist, 2 Meltas, Heavy Bolter Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, Power Fist, 2 Flamers, Heavy Bolter Attack Bike.
3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikers.
3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikers.
3 Heavy Bolter Attack Bikers.
1490.

After going through the 6th Edition Rulebook and browsing the internets I think some changes need to be made to the list to get back into the battlefield.

First, it is said that 6th Ed overall favors shooting…esp. the longer ranged stuff. With variable charge ranges, I don't think I will approach too often, I think I need more longer reaching shooting from the special weapons.

In addition, with challenges rules, I don't think the Fists will be the go to options, esp. if I need to try and stay out of combat. In addition, power weapons would be nice, but without a second close combat weapon, they are forever stuck at 2 Attacks base… one of the reasons I didn't go for them in 5th Ed.

So, i was thinking of several changes to the troop bikers squads: Drop the Fists, turn the Meltas to Flamers, then the Unit Leader purchases Melta Bombs and a Combi-Flamer.

The flamer squad drop their fist, get a Melta Bomb and Combi-Flamer, and switch the flamers to Meltas.

This means, I still have Flamers should I need to get upclose and personal to hordes, coupled with mass TL Bolters and Hvy Bolters, each squad has Melta Bombs (and Kraks) for any MC/Tank duties upclose. The Melta unit is there for desperation Melta shots should I need it. The plasmas are there to mesh better with the 24" range standoff range of most of the guns and to get some AP 2 into the list with the change to power weapons being AP3.

New List:

Captain (Bike, Relic Blade, Storm Shield).
8 Bikers, Combi-Flamer, Melta Bomb, 2 Plasma Guns, Heavy Bolter Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, Combi-Flamer, Melta Bomb, 2 Plasma Guns, Heavy Bolter Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, Combi-Flamer, Melta Bomb, 2 Melta Guns, Heavy Bolter Attack Bike.
3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikers.
3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikers.
3 Heavy Bolter Attack Bikers.
1490

Now comes the issue of the HQ option.
I believe the Relic Blade/Storm Shield combo is still good, but another option has interested me:

Captain (Bike, Power Fist, Lighting Claw, Artificer Armor). With the weapon change, I save 5 points which with the 10 points remaining from the overall list allows me to get Artificer Armor for the Captain… with 2+ being pretty durable, he has a basic 4++ already, and T5 means he's not killed by str9 and lower. With this option, I GAIN an extra attack and have the choice of MEQ killing or AP2/MC hurting. The downside? I need to convert a model with those two weapons :-/

And then, there is expansion… there are so many options… esp. with the new allies rules. I'm pretty overwhelmed with the options at the moment.

Things I need to watch out for: Fliers… I don't actually have a response to them at the 1500 level. I need to watch out for fast deathstars…maybe like… Ghaz with his retinue in a wagon or something. I actually don't know how lethal Dark Eldar to be… and it seems Grey Knights are the rave these days.

I'm wondering what other posters think of my list, expansion options, and maybe what I need to look out for in this new and dangerous world of 6th edition.

Thanks in advance

My 7 Cents

Firstly, welcome back Sanct.

At 1500 i reckon your new list is bang on. Only thing is to make sure you have room to fallback using ATSKNF to keep the plasma going if your facing 2+

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
Firstly, welcome back Sanct.

At 1500 i reckon your new list is bang on. Only thing is to make sure you have room to fallback using ATSKNF to keep the plasma going if your facing 2+

Indeed, I'd have to kite and stay at arms length a good while... while keeping 3D6 away from the edge. This pretty much means I need to play the flanks of the board.

What do you think about expanding out to 1750/1850/2000? There seems to be a wealth of options and a truck load of things to fear out there.

I'm thinking I need a response to Flyers and Deathstars... but I don't think they overlap in terms of options that fit into 250-500 point chunks... I dunno. Was thinking about triple vindi, mass Assault Terminators, and allies.

I reckon your facing a flier at this points level. Any more and you will cave in his ground forces.

Hey have some shots if your holding all the objectives.

Re triple vindi, i think you have that sorted.crowd their space. Thats turn 2 easy kill for you. I would be more worried of jack all trades like tac terms.

Mass assault terms go down to bolters. Last time i stretched 1750 i got 20 terms on foot. Again, i would be more worried of 10 tac terms w cml than 9 hammernators, even w gate libby.

Your bang on w flanks. With this much dakka you never need to close, and would be crazy to. Troops in cover, no problem, here us 12 heavy bolter wounds.

Having faced a list like yours in 5th, which was a lot kinder, i confirm its no teddybears picnic getting riddled by heavybolter flakk.

I think your revised list should work fine. Overall bikes got a nice boost in 6th. Jink saves, hammer of wrath, and directional wound allocation make them a bit tougher and more dangerous.

I think the LC/PF captain has a lot of promise.

I'm not sure the combi flamers are worth it for a bike list. Do you want to be in template range of things? I would recomend dropping them or switching to a combi that matches the squad.

Most fast deathstars should be a lot slower after you toast their ride with a MM bike squadron. Another idea for a counter-deathstar unit would be a command squad with 4 plasma guns.

Flyers are going to be a problem. You, as a bike list, have a better chance of just ignoring them then most players. Remember that they need to come on from their table edge on turn 2 at the earliest, and can only make one 90 turn. Just try not to be in their arc. If you can pull this off, the sizable chunk of points they invested in flyers might get one shot off, and you don't need to waste your time snap-firing at them.

Once you go to 2,000 points you can take a second force org chart. This will give you more FA slots to play with, but you need another HQ and troop pick. Picking up some storm talons will help with the air superiority.

How pure do you want to stay with your bike list? Some scouts manning a quad gun will help with flyers. But as the only static element of your army, they might find themselves out on a limb.

Vindis are nasty, and will kill anything under the pie plate, but can't do anything to flyers. Auto/Las predators might lack the impact of the vindicator, but have more range and can attempt to bring down flyers with massed ground fire.

Assault terminators in a LR (lead by a chaplain preferably) make for a strong counter-charge unit. If you go with a basic LR, the TLLCs can help with AA fire.

I would give the troops the MM attack bikes. Then have a single unit of MM attack bikes. Then bring two stormtalons.
They are a source of antiflyer goodness and will fit your list.
If you can not hit flyers, then you will struggle against quite a few armies.

The tactics will be a lot different, for example you need to be careful which model you put the furthest forward. However, hit and run is still going be the best advice, with landing onto objectives at the end.
The relic is a fun mission with bikers. Remember to move 6'' in the shooting phase.

Thank you all for your replies.

@Loricatus Aurora:
I think fliers would be 'all the rave' in my area, but yea, I suppose there is a way to approach fliers that does not need direct counters… esp. at the 1500 level.
The Vindi's are indeed there to kill stuff… esp. deathstars. I'm hoping the Vindis will cause the opponent to spread out further, making the bikers have better angles with their torrent of fire.

I do like having a handful of dice to throw with the Hvy bolters everywhere, but I must confess, the multiple heavy blotter attack bikes are there for modeling reasons.

@Nevelon:
Yea, I'm happy with a bump in biker usefulness.
The LC/PF is very flexible…and cheaper than the Relic blade/Stormshield combo.
Vs. flyers, i think I just need to focus on getting behind them if I don't go for anti-air options.

I don't have to stay pure, but I don't really like static elements.
As desirable as the terms + LR is, my lack of armor saturation will be an issue.

@MFletch:
I'll try fitting in the Storm Talons and your suggestions.

What do you guys think of the following then (essentially dropping the Hvy Bolters and melee options:


Captain, Bike, Power Axe, Power Sword.
8 Bikers, 2 Plasma Guns, MM Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, 2 Plasma Guns, MM Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, 2 Meltas, MM Attack Bike.
3 MM Attack Bikes
Stormtalon w/ Typhoon
Stormtalon w/ Typhoon
1500

So, it has anti-air, more MM's and 24" death range options.
I have the 2 meltas for the suicide squad that needs to stop raiders or tarpit.
Captain gets a downgrade in gear to get the points, but he's still flexible.

Does this look a bit better all-comers?

Wow, welcome back.

That list looks 5th edition. It's not to say Mech isn't strong in 6th, rather that infantry lists are good too. I just don't know what this list would do about, say, a Tide of Spawn. I just don't see it killing 15 T6 wounds, and that's only 180 points of Spawn.

I was suggested to face you in vassal to draw out your 6th ed hate

As for killing T6 spawn... I think it involves shooting them and praying.

I know the spawn are there to tarpit, take shots, and catch fast elements, but they don't ignore armor saves.... so other than shooting them and hoping to combat tactics away to continue shooting them, there's no way around it.

As easy it is to include 180 points of spawn at 1500, it is still 1500, so I'm limited and the opponent is limited in what they are bringing.

So... if I were to reconsider with killing spawn I'd need what exactly? I don't think anything in the vanilla armory will be as efficient taking them out.

Sternguard, yes, but not points efficient.
Terminators, yes, but they are unlikely to reach them first or are points efficient.

I suppose I could reach for the command squad with mass plasma, but it comes back to the points issue, how do I include the command squad that will be 265+ points (bikes...as how else would I get the drop on spawn :-/ )

I'm sure there are other considerations.... like Nob Biker Deathstar, Wraithguard Deathstar, Draigowing,.... all these things I've heard of. I think I'm just banking on playing safe, pre-measuring, and running away... not great plans.

Hell, I don't even know flyer rules that well T.T

 Sanctjud wrote:
Thank you all for your replies.



What do you guys think of the following then (essentially dropping the Hvy Bolters and melee options:


Captain, Bike, Power Axe, Power Sword.
8 Bikers, 2 Plasma Guns, MM Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, 2 Plasma Guns, MM Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, 2 Meltas, MM Attack Bike.
3 MM Attack Bikes
Stormtalon w/ Typhoon
Stormtalon w/ Typhoon
1500

So, it has anti-air, more MM's and 24" death range options.
I have the 2 meltas for the suicide squad that needs to stop raiders or tarpit.
Captain gets a downgrade in gear to get the points, but he's still flexible.

Does this look a bit better all-comers?

I would swap the 3 multimelta attack bikes for HB bikes to get the extra shooting to deal with the large foot squads now seeing more play. 12-15 shots around will be better than the 6-9 you have know. You should have enough melta already to handle Armor and with glancing the HB's can rack up against the sides and rear of light armor.

 Sanctjud wrote:
I was suggested to face you in vassal to draw out your 6th ed hate

As was I. I'm much happier now that I've got an updated book. In fact, I'd say 6th is superior to 5th.

Anyway, like Barnowl said, you've got too much melta. It's a tough call on whether a group of MMABs is better than splitting the MM amongst the squads, but in either case the 8 man 2 Melta/MMAB is too much.

I'd say the 2 melta/MMAB have an important role in the army. The sacrificial unit to take down Land Raider oriented lists. That unit combat squads up, so the 5 man with 2 meltas can go up close and kill the LR and take the charge of whatever comes out.

It's kind of the like the secondary option other than killing the LR at the 24" range with MMAB's with lucky 6's.

Or is that wishful thinking?