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Just phoned mail order GW line.
They do not sell Havoc heavy weapons on their own.
So, in order to equip 3 squads of Havocs with your preffered weapon, in my case Autocannons you'd have to buy 12 boxes at £25.50 each. Only 306 quid...
Their advice was to check auction sites lol.

This is one of the reasons why I have a love/hate relationship with GW.

Scratch build.

Autocannons are so easy. Just need two different sizes of plastic tubing, drills, chaos gun tips, chain... anything really.

Wait, let me get this straight... There's combination of units that you have to convert to create? No way.

Seriously though, it has always been this way. If you want to spam a certain weapon/unit type, you'll need to scratchbuild, convert or buy multiple sets.

I recommend following lunarman's advice or getting a bunch of autocannons from IG HWSs.

 pretre wrote:
Wait, let me get this straight... There's combination of units that you have to convert to create? No way.

Seriously though, it has always been this way. If you want to spam a certain weapon/unit type, you'll need to scratchbuild, convert or buy multiple sets.

I recommend following lunarman's advice or getting a bunch of autocannons from IG HWSs.

Not true, you *used* to be able to buy individual Autocannon/ML/HB/Lascannon Havocs not too long ago. That's how I got all of my heavy weapon toting CSM's. One will also note IG HWT's come with one of each weapon for each heavy weapon team

Seriously. Just be happy you can even get the bits in a kit. SM dreads that want MM can only get them from OOP AOBR dreads.

And it's the same thing for devs too. 12 boxes to equip 12 ML, or MM.

You might also check out any number of bitz sites out there, including scouring eBay. It's not that hard to find bitz for guns.

I went through the same thing when I built my Long Fangs. I, being the lovably cheesy rascal that I was, decided to go with the popular 15 ML Long Fangs, but alas, the kit only comes with a single launcher. So what did I do? I grabbed anything that looked even vaguely like a missile launcher that I could and slapped it onto a Long Fang. Anything was fair game, from hunter killer missiles to Deathwind missile launchers (which I think turned out rather nice, personally) and my personal favorite, an Ork rokkit (the Long Fang is actually standing on top of a dead Ork, holding the rokkit launcha in both hands).

It's always been this way. Much as I wish GW would make kits with every conceivable option in them, the Devastator kit would be absolutely ridiculous if it had 4 of every heavy weapon that the squad could take.

If we go by what you used to be able to do, I bits ordered my minis and bits individually by weight and later specific prices, back in the day. Got me great things like Swooping Hawk wings for my Seraphim and my entire Redemptionist force.

On topic though, HWT boxes are absolutely awesome for bits. Chances are that if you know an IG player he has some spare HW from all his HWT.

Cast your own?

Cheers guys, yep, I shall scour the web in hunt of bits and will have to scratch build also.

I do miss the old style mail order though when you could near enough select and order whatever you wanted from the entire catalogue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A quick question, anyone have a list of trusted bitz sites?

I know of Bitzbox and im sure i could find a bunch more but as I havent used their services I'm not sure if they all are trusted sources.

Thanks in advance.

 pretre wrote:
If we go by what you used to be able to do, I bits ordered my minis and bits individually by weight and later specific prices, back in the day. Got me great things like Swooping Hawk wings for my Seraphim and my entire Redemptionist force.

Right, but that service hasn't been available in over half a decade, the Havocs were available not too long ago. I was mainly addressing the point that "it had always been that way", it's an unfortunate recent development.

On topic though, HWT boxes are absolutely awesome for bits. Chances are that if you know an IG player he has some spare HW from all his HWT.

This is very, very true, though the autocannons are ****-huge on Marines.

Imperial guard autocannon from HWS - £3 via ebay.
Quad gun autocannon x4 - £12 via ebay.

So you actually looking at £23 for a box of CSM then another £12 for 4 autocannons.
Also, you get 5 extra men doing it that way, so actual cost works out at: £23.50

So even cheaper than havocs normally.

It's really hard to find bitz websites that deal in metal and/or finecast though. Alas, I too miss the days when you could phone up GW and request 11x Space Marine Captain 2 Left Kneecap A...

I can't give you my advice as it technically breaks Dakka's rules (and I will not do such a thing).

but honestly it shouldn't be too hard to make one of your own, then replicate it many, many times.

Or you know, could just not spam autocannons?

Thats nice deadshot, really does help with the topic, does it not?


Best bet is ebay i'd say, as a ton of bitz places are having stock issues.

The best way to deal with it is just use the Heavy Bolters in the CSM boxes. Most gamers\tournaments are not concerned about anal WYSIWYG on wargear options.

You can use the heavy bolter modeled Havocs as any weapon option you want; autocannons, missile launchers, etc. It is really a non-issue, GW just wants you
to think it is.

Firstborn wrote:
The best way to deal with it is just use the Heavy Bolters in the CSM boxes. Most gamers\tournaments are not concerned about anal WYSIWYG on wargear options.

You can use the heavy bolter modeled Havocs as any weapon option you want; autocannons, missile launchers, etc. It is really a non-issue, GW just wants you
to think it is.

Umm no. WYSIWYG isn't a GW thing, it isn't even in the 6th ed rulebook. WYSIWYG is a courtesy to your opponent. I have no problem with HB as Autocannons, if you add long barrels on them to make it clear that they are Autocannons and not HB.

As Pretre said, it isn't a GW thing, but a courtesy to your opponent. I shouldn't have to keep a notebook to know what your units are every game, thanks!

But that's a topic for another thread.

 kronk wrote:
As Pretre said, it isn't a GW thing, but a courtesy to your opponent. I shouldn't have to keep a notebook to know what your units are every game, thanks!

But that's a topic for another thread.

Not really. If you can't remember that the only heavy weapons in my army are autocannons, perhaps 40K is not for you.
People sub out wargear all the time, nothing wrong with it.

Firstborn wrote:

 kronk wrote:
As Pretre said, it isn't a GW thing, but a courtesy to your opponent. I shouldn't have to keep a notebook to know what your units are every game, thanks!

But that's a topic for another thread.

Not really. If you can't remember that the only heavy weapons in my army are autocannons, perhaps 40K is not for you.
People sub out wargear all the time, nothing wrong with it.

Why should we have to remember? Why can't you have the courtesy that most 40k players do to make sure that your models are representative of your force? As we said, it is courtesy.

Do peoples sub out wargear in friendly games all the time? Sure.
Is it better to have the right wargear and not put the onus of remembering on your opponent? Yes.

I have a good memory, but if it is the third or fourth game of the day, I would really like to just look at the model and see the correct gear. My brain gets hurt enough at that point.

Firstborn wrote:

 kronk wrote:
As Pretre said, it isn't a GW thing, but a courtesy to your opponent. I shouldn't have to keep a notebook to know what your units are every game, thanks!

But that's a topic for another thread.

Not really. If you can't remember that the only heavy weapons in my army are autocannons, perhaps 40K is not for you.

I'd turn it the other way around: if you can't be bothered modelling some stuff, perhaps 40k is not for you.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'd turn it the other way around: if you can't be bothered modelling some stuff, perhaps 40k is not for you.

Exactly! I love modelling and that's a good portion of the fun I derive from this hobby. I consider it a personal badge of honor that my armies are always painted and WYSIWYG when I play games at events.

I had 4x AC havocs before it was cool

Mine are made up from IG AC's that have been chopped up and recombobulated with other weapon bits. Though I do have a few proper AC havocs too.

 pretre wrote:

Firstborn wrote:

 kronk wrote:
As Pretre said, it isn't a GW thing, but a courtesy to your opponent. I shouldn't have to keep a notebook to know what your units are every game, thanks!

But that's a topic for another thread.

Not really. If you can't remember that the only heavy weapons in my army are autocannons, perhaps 40K is not for you.
People sub out wargear all the time, nothing wrong with it.

Why should we have to remember? Why can't you have the courtesy that most 40k players do to make sure that your models are representative of your force? As we said, it is courtesy.

Do peoples sub out wargear in friendly games all the time? Sure.
Is it better to have the right wargear and not put the onus of remembering on your opponent? Yes.

I have a good memory, but if it is the third or fourth game of the day, I would really like to just look at the model and see the correct gear. My brain gets hurt enough at that point.

Unfortunately, most people don't share this view point. Most commonly people put whatever wargear they want on their models. This is usually driven by codex changes which invalidate
older wargear, or Games Workshop not providing the necessary bits in their kits for the wargear in question. Additionally, there are many types of wargear, especially IC centric wargear, that
can't be realistically modeled.

Finally, not everyone enjoys converting. Personally, I think the Heavy Bolter models look nice and represent any Havoc heavy weapon loadout appropriately.

Firstborn wrote:

 kronk wrote:
As Pretre said, it isn't a GW thing, but a courtesy to your opponent. I shouldn't have to keep a notebook to know what your units are every game, thanks!

But that's a topic for another thread.

Not really. If you can't remember that the only heavy weapons in my army are autocannons, perhaps 40K is not for you.
People sub out wargear all the time, nothing wrong with it.

Yes really. Bring the right gear or don't come to the table.

A substitution here or there is fine, but don't tell me this flamer is a meltagun but that flamer is a plasma gun, this gaunt is a guardsman with a flamer, and this ratling is a Lord Kommisar with a power sword and bolt pistol.

I spend a lot of time making sure my stuff is 100% WYSIWYG. Do the same, please.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Just phoned mail order GW line.
They do not sell Havoc heavy weapons on their own.
So, in order to equip 3 squads of Havocs with your preffered weapon, in my case Autocannons you'd have to buy 12 boxes at £25.50 each. Only 306 quid...
Their advice was to check auction sites lol.

This is one of the reasons why I have a love/hate relationship with GW.

So go to ebay and buy up a bunch of spare autocannon bits from people selling off the extra weapons from their heavy weapon squads. Plenty to be had very cheaply and just do a little converting and they will work fine with your havocs. This is the simplest thing to do for such a specific need if you don't have a robust bitz box at home of your own. Having built 3 different Imperial guard based armies I have no lack of extra heavy weapon bitz laying around to convert new havocs with.

Skriker

I genuinely don't mind GW prices, but stuff like this does annoy me. No need to shaft the customer.

You could also look around the web for heavybolters to autocannon conversions.

Firstborn wrote:
Unfortunately, most people don't share this view point. Most commonly people put whatever wargear they want on their models. This is usually driven by codex changes which invalidate
older wargear, or Games Workshop not providing the necessary bits in their kits for the wargear in question. Additionally, there are many types of wargear, especially IC centric wargear, that
can't be realistically modeled.

Finally, not everyone enjoys converting. Personally, I think the Heavy Bolter models look nice and represent any Havoc heavy weapon loadout appropriately.

Really?? Where I play if we can't look at your minis and know what they are armed with they don't fly, period end of story. Play in most tournies and WYSIWYG is the law of the land.

Also this applies to obvious options. Minor in appearance no one is going to complain if it isn't modeled. You have two options if the kit out you want to use doesn't have parts for it in the box: Either don't use it, or customize it yourself like everyone else does.

A model doesn't need *all* of its weapons modeled, but any weapon that is modeled should be modeled properly. Some examples:
A model with a 2 handed CCW weapon modeled in a dynamic pose that also has an unmodeled plasma pistol. GOOD
A model with a meltagun, that instead has *no* melta gun, but is actually supposed to have a massive 2 handed CCW weapon instead. BAD

This doesn't preclude a friend asking if he can try out a new unit with proxies before he buys them. That is fine, but if I plunk my minis down for a pickup game at the local store I shouldn't have to guess as to whether my opponents forces are as they appear. This is further exacerbated by the fact that often these players don't tell you that the heavy bolter is really an autocannon until you've made a tactical move based on what the model appears to be armed with and suddenly you are screwed because the weapon has nearly twice the range of that modeled.

Of course the biggest extreme of this is those idiots who drop down 50 tactical marine figures with bolters and you are supposed to remember which ones are really assault marines, and which others are devastators or terminators...totally obnoxious, but it happens more often than you would think..

Skriker

Firstborn wrote:
Unfortunately, most people don't share this view point. Most commonly people put whatever wargear they want on their models. This is usually driven by codex changes which invalidate
older wargear, or Games Workshop not providing the necessary bits in their kits for the wargear in question. Additionally, there are many types of wargear, especially IC centric wargear, that
can't be realistically modeled.

Speak for yourself rather than trying to invoke 'most people', it works better. You don't share this view point. You put whatever wargear you want on your models.

The types of wargear that can't be realistically modelled often aren't. There is a big difference between this guy has a dimensional whatsis that isn't represented because it's a 3" cube and this guy with a plasma cannon actually has a lascannon.

Finally, not everyone enjoys converting. Personally, I think the Heavy Bolter models look nice and represent any Havoc heavy weapon loadout appropriately.

Aha, here's the crux.

So... i'll assume they stop selling the blister with autocannons... damn should have bought more 5 years ago :S