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 Melissia wrote:
Space Marines are FAR more likely to get killed by a Hive Tyrant in close combat than to kill it.

Non-sequiter. A Space Marine is also a dozen times more likely to kill a Hive Tyrant than a sister is.

Melissia, don't do this.

BlaxicanX wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Space Marines are FAR more likely to get killed by a Hive Tyrant in close combat than to kill it.

Non-sequiter

Did you actually even read the post that I responded to? I submit that you did not, and this despite the fact that it was YOUR post I was responding to. You claimed that Marines kill Hive Tyrants every day. Except of course this is a stupid claim which isn't based on the lore; Hive Tyrants are FAR too tough and deadly even for most Marines to kill. Stop hating on Tyranids so much. It takes heavy firepower or insane skill to down a hive tyrant, and the average marine simply does not carry enough.

The average marine is not more significantly likely to kill a Hive Tyrant in close combat than a Sister of Battle is. They're both fethed. Only exceptional Marines and exceptional Sisters can kill hive tyrants in single combat. Stop the marinewank and actually pay attention to the conversation that is being had.

Hive Tyrants are not only among the most advanced Tyranid organisms but they also have an inherent ability to project fear on a psychic level. Astartes, Sororitas, and Guardsman are more likely to gak their pants in pure, unadulterated terror than defeat a Tyrant in close combat. Anyone who can claim to have defeated a Hive Tyrant in close combat is either a combat god or got extremely lucky. Whoever said Space Marines do this every day is full of it.

 Tadashi wrote:

Good luck if the Grey Knights arrive - Sisters or not, the Ordo Malleus will kill everything non-Astartes to maintain secrecy.

Wrong

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:

Good luck if the Grey Knights arrive - Sisters or not, the Ordo Malleus will kill everything non-Astartes to maintain secrecy.

Wrong

I thought the grey knights have killed sisters in a dubious piece of fluff wherre there dancing in blood or something.

He said the Grey Knight would kill all non astartes, which is wrong, take Vraks, they never touched the guardsmen there.

Omg, this thread devolved quickly in a single day. [Citation needed] everywhere.

I'll just try to focus on the discussion I had going and ignore most of the hysteric rants from both sides. How on Holy Terra did Living Saints even get dragged into this? I thought we were comparing troops, for Gork's sake!

Couple things I will add a remark to, though:

Tadashi wrote:Enough for them to be used as a catalyst for blood magic.

Their fault for being more pure and less corruptible than the Grey Knights, I guess.

Augustine_Maven wrote:Based on the sum of all the posts that have been made on this thread it is clear to me that it is due to the combination of all the various agencies of the Imperium; Grey Knights, Sisters, Imeprial Guard, Astartes, etc... that maintain the Imperium, that is without question. One single entity within the Imperium could not guarantee its collective safety, so no more who is better or who has more influence or anymore nonsense.

Truth be told, all those agencies cannot guarantee the IoM's safety even when you count them together, so the question if a single one of them is capable to do so should not even be raised. However, I think it should honestly be obvious that the Imperial Guard would be the most likely candidate by virtue of its quantity and distribution, regardless of its many drawbacks (where other military forces may be better suited).

Tadashi wrote:Nature of said miracles the Ordo Malleus would probably love to investigate...and which the Astartes, Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy, and everyone else do fine without.

Do you really, really believe they never did this when it is so very obvious an exceptional thing?

As the Codex fluff says, such feats are only "miraculous for the unschooled", which an Inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus likely is not.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:gimme the daughters of the Emporer in that case everytime, cause at least you only have to worry bout just the enemy killing you

On the battlefield you're probably right.

Just hope you're not camping near them when they have nothing else to fight and get bored.

Tadashi wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:I can think of many examples where the Astartes and the Guard have undertaken 'zealous' frontal attacks and banzai charges - with varing degrees of success depending on the oppostion.

Only when the Codex Astartes and Tactica Imperialis dictate it as appropriate - the Sisters do it as a matter of course. Where WWII-era Japanese soldiers had nationalism, these girls have zeal, and they put the IJA to shame.

^ implying that all Space Marine Chapters adhere to the Codex Astartes.

Tadashi wrote:Good luck if the Grey Knights arrive - Sisters or not, the Ordo Malleus will kill everything non-Astartes to maintain secrecy.

Wrong. Guardsman are killed - and even then not always. More precious troops get mindscrubbed or be left alone completely, all depending on how much the Inquisition trusts them. And the Sisters of Battle are still the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus.

BlaxicanX wrote:The fluff is consistent because the majority of the fluff checks out with itself. In the majority of fluff that show Space Marines fighting Sisters, we're shown Space Marines decimating Sororitas. Thus, the fluff is consistent with itself.

con·sis·ten·cy noun, \kən-ˈsis-tən(t)-sē\
plural con·sis·ten·cies

Definition of CONSISTENCY
1 archaic: condition of adhering together, firmness of material substance, firmness of constitution or character, persistency
2 degree of firmness, density, viscosity, or resistance to movement or separation of constituent particles
3 agreement or harmony of parts or features to one another or a whole, correspondence, specifically: ability to be asserted together without contradiction, harmony of conduct or practice with profession

Contradictions destroy consistency. End sentence. You could say the fluff is "somewhat consistent" or "fairly consistent", but even then that would be pretty far fetched when it is obvious that the contradictions exist because the various writers were not interested in a uniform portrayal. At the end of the day, GW has their own vision for the Sisters of Battle, and a whole lot of writers elsewhere have another.
You go ahead sticking to your precious novels and the silly things they sometimes claim (enjoy your Multilaser-Marines), and I stick to what the creators of the setting write in the studio books. Deal?

BlaxicanX wrote:With the proper circumstances, a Guardsmen can kill Kaldor Driego in close-quarters combat. "Circumstances" have too many variables to be of any use in an objective discussion. And as well, this just proves my point. If Sororitas need specific circumstances in their favor to beat Space Marines, how does that imply that they're on a Space Marine's level?

You do realize that circumstances always play a role, yes? One could just as well say that a Space Marine also needs "specific circumstances" to kill a Sister. Or a Guardsman. For example, he needs to spot them first and have a suitable weapon, with ammunition if ranged.
No, the true question is whether they are "close enough" to each other to both have a good chance. And as they both wear armour of the same protective value, and they both carry guns of the same destructive capability. I'd say the playing field is fairly equal. And GW seems inclined to agree - but more on that below.

BlaxicanX wrote:As well, in every SM vs. CSM fight in the Night Lords trilogy, as well as in Brothers of the Snake, there's numerous descriptions of bolt rounds basically denting /shattering armor, but not piercing it.

So what? You are still clinging to individual events rather than general descriptions here, which is very risky as I have pointed out before.
Think about what you are implying. By what you suggest here, SM and CSM should simply throw away their boltguns when fighting each other, because they are apparently useless? Nope, I guess we'll have to disagree on that, and once again I point towards the technical description of Space Marine power armour in the Angels of Death Codex. A description not sullied by potentially being an exception from the rule.

BlaxicanX wrote:Tell that to the squad of girls who got mangled by a single Flesh Tearer who'd succumbed to the Black Rage in ADB's short story.

Are you not aware that I stick only to GW's own material?
If I'd adopt everything I read in some random novel into my perception of the 'verse, I would have to deal with backflipping Terminators, cowardly Commissars, and a Storm Trooper that kills an entire Order of SoB (which somehow got infiltrated by 'stealers *blinks*) on his own.

Not saying that the Flesh Tearer bit is impossible, mind you... Circumstances. I'm just rather biased against novels since I have become used to massive contradictions to Codex fluff.
Though, if you really want to delve into novels, read Ben Counter's Daemonblood to see how Sister Aescarion whips around Sergeant Castus with her power axe.

BlaxicanX wrote:Wow, something Space Marines do every day!

In your Black Library books maybe.

BlaxicanX wrote:Unfortunately, it doesn't tell me anything I don't already know. I'm well aware of the fact that Sororitas are used to cull renegade chapters, in fact I stated as much earlier in the discussion. However, what I was asking for was fluff that would imply that Sisters can stand toe to toe with Marines on equal footing. These quotes don't do that.

You were claiming that there was only a single reference for Sisters hunting down Marine Chapters, which I have adressed here.

As for the equal footing, I have already mentioned that Space Marines have an artificial advantage. As I said, I am disputing the width of the gap you apparently see between these forces.
But if I'd really wanted to push the issue - you know, I have already quoted the GW website a few pages back, but here it is again:
"As the Chamber Militant of the galaxy-spanning Ecclesiarchy, the Sisters of Battle are fierce warriors that are equals to their brother Space Marines. What the Sisters lack in genetic enhancement they make up for in faith and devotion."

I bolded the important part for you this time. Feel free to look up a GW quote that specifically counters this.

Eetion wrote:I thought the grey knights have killed sisters in a dubious piece of fluff wherre there dancing in blood or something.

It's not really dubious - that was in the 5E Grey Knights Codex.
And it was not at all done to preserve secrecy, but because the Grey Knights simply required the pure blood of the Sororitas, most of whom remained uncorrupted by the daemonic Bloodtide, to ward themselves against it. Apparently the GKs own incorruptability is, at least now, not something that comes natural but which is artificially induced via rituals and paraphernalia. Though the Bloodtide's strength may have been an exception.

 Lynata wrote:
Their fault for being more pure and less corruptible than the Grey Knights, I guess.

Not really - the Sisters were being affected by the Bloodtide too. The Grey Knights' blood magic probably transformed the Sisters' blood into some sort of ablative coating or something along those lines.

Do you really, really believe they never did this when it is so very obvious an exceptional thing?

As the Codex fluff says, such feats are only "miraculous for the unschooled", which an Inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus likely is not.

Who's to say the Ordo Malleus didn't try, only to be told to feth off by the Ordo Hereticus?

Wrong. Guardsman are killed - and even then not always. More precious troops get mindscrubbed or be left alone completely, all depending on how much the Inquisition trusts them. And the Sisters of Battle are still the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus.

Fair enough - I will concede the point.

Just because it was in a codex doesn't make it dubious.

It just means it's studio lore. It's still stupid.

Tadashi wrote:Not really - the Sisters were being affected by the Bloodtide too. The Grey Knights' blood magic probably transformed the Sisters' blood into some sort of ablative coating or something along those lines.

Not all Sisters. Some of them got tainted and then killed by daemons. The rest, those who stayed pure, were then sacrificed by the GKs (specifically because they remained pure). "Ablative coating" seems to be an adequate description, though. They painted their armour and weapons with it, if I recall correctly. I imagine it would work somewhat similar to hexagrammic wards or whatever, at least in effect. GKs probably have a catalogue of stuff protecting them from the taint of Chaos, and the Blood of Innocents (or something along those lines) is one option out of many, giving them relative incorruptability.

Tadashi wrote:Who's to say the Ordo Malleus didn't try, only to be told to feth off by the Ordo Hereticus?

Common sense.

I mean, okay - perhaps it is not impossible that this occurred. I actually *do* imagine the Convocation of Nephilim granting some sort of protection / political clout, I just wouldn't say it extends this far. The Ordo Malleus gets to check Living Saints too, after all. Plus, the Convocation of Nephilim or indeed any sort of tie to the Ordo Hereticus is not as old as the Sororitas themselves. If the Ordo Malleus really would have "jumped at the chance" to investigate what GW's game rules have already clarified to not be any sort of psychic powers or Warp magiks, then they would have probably done so in the aftermath of Vandire's fall. It would not have raised much protest to imprison his former bodyguards to test their purity. Thor may have raised his voice as he wanted their troops and ships for the Ecclesiarchy's protection, yet how could he refuse something along the lines of "you'll get them back if they are clean"? Surely, there must have been lots of suspicion towards the Imperial Cult back then, and the Ecclesiarchy did indeed experience a purge of its ranks.

But I suppose it's not a topic there is much to argue about, as it's all just speculation.

 Lynata wrote:
Not all Sisters. Some of them got tainted and then killed by daemons.

No, anyone who came into contact with the Bloodtide got tainted by Khorne's bloodlust. Not sure - I'll check the codex.

Tadashi wrote:No, anyone who came into contact with the Bloodtide got tainted by Khorne's bloodlust. Not sure - I'll check the codex.

That is half-correct. The Codex mentions "corrupts anything it touches" - but then goes on to give that Sororitas convent as an exception in the midst of a sea of taint. Or something like that ...

Yeah, if you have the book nearby, please look it up - I'd have to dig through the web to find the exact quote.

(but really, why else would the GKs have needed their blood, if not for its purity?)

 Lynata wrote:

Tadashi wrote:No, anyone who came into contact with the Bloodtide got tainted by Khorne's bloodlust. Not sure - I'll check the codex.

That is half-correct. The Codex mentions "corrupts anything it touches" - but then goes on to give that Sororitas convent as an exception in the midst of a sea of taint. Or something like that ...

Yeah, if you have the book nearby, please look it up - I'd have to dig through the web to find the exact quote.

Checked - some endure, some fall. The Grey Knights didn't want to take any risks, and used blood magic to counter blood magic.

(but really, why else would the GKs have needed their blood, if not for its purity?)

Because blood magic needs blood? And Astartes blood is more precious than Human blood?

 Melissia wrote:
Did you actually even read the post that I responded to? I submit that you did not, and this despite the fact that it was YOUR post I was responding to. You claimed that Marines kill Hive Tyrants every day.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole

You're banned from the internet until you learn what this means. Your exile begins, now.

 Lynata wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:The fluff is consistent because the majority of the fluff checks out with itself. In the majority of fluff that show Space Marines fighting Sisters, we're shown Space Marines decimating Sororitas. Thus, the fluff is consistent with itself.

con·sis·ten·cy noun, \kən-ˈsis-tən(t)-sē\
plural con·sis·ten·cies

Definition of CONSISTENCY
1 archaic: condition of adhering together, firmness of material substance, firmness of constitution or character, persistency
2 degree of firmness, density, viscosity, or resistance to movement or separation of constituent particles
3 agreement or harmony of parts or features to one another or a whole, correspondence, specifically: ability to be asserted together without contradiction, harmony of conduct or practice with profession

Contradictions destroy consistency. End sentence. You could say the fluff is "somewhat consistent" or "fairly consistent", but even then that would be pretty far fetched when it is obvious that the contradictions exist because the various writers were not interested in a uniform portrayal. At the end of the day, GW has their own vision for the Sisters of Battle, and a whole lot of writers elsewhere have another.
You go ahead sticking to your precious novels and the silly things they sometimes claim (enjoy your Multilaser-Marines), and I stick to what the creators of the setting write in the studio books. Deal?

BlaxicanX wrote:With the proper circumstances, a Guardsmen can kill Kaldor Driego in close-quarters combat. "Circumstances" have too many variables to be of any use in an objective discussion. And as well, this just proves my point. If Sororitas need specific circumstances in their favor to beat Space Marines, how does that imply that they're on a Space Marine's level?

You do realize that circumstances always play a role, yes? One could just as well say that a Space Marine also needs "specific circumstances" to kill a Sister. Or a Guardsman. For example, he needs to spot them first and have a suitable weapon, with ammunition if ranged.
No, the true question is whether they are "close enough" to each other to both have a good chance. And as they both wear armour of the same protective value, and they both carry guns of the same destructive capability. I'd say the playing field is fairly equal. And GW seems inclined to agree - but more on that below.

BlaxicanX wrote:As well, in every SM vs. CSM fight in the Night Lords trilogy, as well as in Brothers of the Snake, there's numerous descriptions of bolt rounds basically denting /shattering armor, but not piercing it.

So what? You are still clinging to individual events rather than general descriptions here, which is very risky as I have pointed out before.
Think about what you are implying. By what you suggest here, SM and CSM should simply throw away their boltguns when fighting each other, because they are apparently useless? Nope, I guess we'll have to disagree on that, and once again I point towards the technical description of Space Marine power armour in the Angels of Death Codex. A description not sullied by potentially being an exception from the rule.

BlaxicanX wrote:Tell that to the squad of girls who got mangled by a single Flesh Tearer who'd succumbed to the Black Rage in ADB's short story.

Are you not aware that I stick only to GW's own material?
If I'd adopt everything I read in some random novel into my perception of the 'verse, I would have to deal with backflipping Terminators, cowardly Commissars, and a Storm Trooper that kills an entire Order of SoB (which somehow got infiltrated by 'stealers *blinks*) on his own.

Not saying that the Flesh Tearer bit is impossible, mind you... Circumstances. I'm just rather biased against novels since I have become used to massive contradictions to Codex fluff.
Though, if you really want to delve into novels, read Ben Counter's Daemonblood to see how Sister Aescarion whips around Sergeant Castus with her power axe.

BlaxicanX wrote:Wow, something Space Marines do every day!

In your Black Library books maybe.

Again, I point out, if you want to cherry-pick fluff and only deem that which suits your personal view as valid, fine. But your argument, on an objective level, holds no merit.

The difference between you and I is that I draw my conclusions from all fluff. If there's 12 instances of a Space Marine lifting 500 pounds, and there's one instance of a Space Marine only being able to lift 100 pounds, I'm not going to assume that the latter instance is more valid just because it's studio fluff or BL fluff. Fluff is fluff, and that lends objectivity to my argument, something yours is lacking.

You were claiming that there was only a single reference for Sisters hunting down Marine Chapters

I claimed that the only fluff that implies that SIsters of Battle can stand toe to toe with Marines is the notion that they are used to cull chapters, and I claimed that that notion is irrelevent because the details surrounding how they cull chapters is left ambiguous. I never challenged the notion that they cull renegade chapters.

"As the Chamber Militant of the galaxy-spanning Ecclesiarchy, the Sisters of Battle are fierce warriors that are equals to their brother Space Marines. What the Sisters lack in genetic enhancement they make up for in faith and devotion."

I bolded the important part for you this time. Feel free to look up a GW quote that specifically counters this.

Don't need too. I have no doubt Sisters are more pious and religious than Marines. Doesn't change the fact that they're far inferior soldiers. Considering the topic of this discussion is "Can Sisters do what the Marines do as efficiently?", their purity and faith means nothing.

Where is the Sisters = Marines statement actually from?

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Where is the Sisters = Marines statement actually from?

No idea.

As far as I'm concerned, they'll always be second best, not just to Astartes, but even to Imperial Guard.

("Attention! All personnel standby for incoming Melissa. Shields up and prepare to return fire. Achtung! Alle Personen, die Bereitschaft für eingehende Melissa. Shields up und bereiten das Feuer zu erwidern.")

I'm pretty sure the average Sister of Battle is quite a ways up from the average Guardsman by virtue of both equipment and training.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
I'm pretty sure the average Sister of Battle is quite a ways up from the average Guardsman by virtue of both equipment and training.

Maybe...but Guardsmen are soldiers, not Witch Hunters. And soldiers (Guardsmen) and warriors (Astartes) will always be above 'nuns with guns'.

The Sisters of Battle are meant to be an elite fast response group towards purging those that would harm the Imperium from within.

This job ranges from scourging mutant rabble to fighting the legions of Chaos summoned by an insane Imperial Governor sorcerer.

 Void__Dragon wrote:


This job ranges from scourging mutant rabble...

I believe the Arbites, the local PDF, or if necessary, the Imperial Guard are more than capable of this feat.

...to fighting the legions of Chaos summoned by an insane Imperial Governor sorcerer.

That's why His Imperial Majesty made the Space Marines in the first place. And even then, they'd only be needed for the worst situations. The Imperial Guard can handle most cases quite easily.

The Sisters of Battle are specialised for it and often work directly alongside the Ordo Hereticus. They excel at purging heresy of the Imperium beyond perhaps even the Space Marines, who are sent to end wars as quickly as possible.

I mean, by that token, one could say that Marines are useless because the guardsmen could eventually get the job done.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

I mean, by that token, one could say that Marines are useless because the guardsmen could eventually get the job done.

That is, in fact, what this entire thread is saying.

Indeed.

The entire thread is wrong, but hey.

The only real issue is that there aren't enough Marines, but that issue could be easily solved fluffwise by making more, so is more of a break from reality in the setting. 40k has many.

Tadashi wrote:Because blood magic needs blood? And Astartes blood is more precious than Human blood?

"Needing a talisman of purity to protect against the Bloodtide's taint, the Grey Knights' first act is to turn their blades upon the surviving Sisters of Battle. The innocent blood thus spilled is then mixed with blessed oils and used to anoint the Grey Knights' armour and weapons."
Sounds fairly specific to me. And if "any" human blood would have done it, they'd have simply snatched a couple civvies from the streets, like the corrupted priests did it for their own blood rituals.

SoB are more resistant to corruption, that has been part of their fluff (in GW's version of the setting at least) ever since their very first rules in White Dwarf, even before the 2E Codex. And if you want yet another example, check out Anastasia's story.

BlaxicanX wrote:Again, I point out, if you want to cherry-pick fluff and only deem that which suits your personal view as valid, fine. But your argument, on an objective level, holds no merit.

Ahh, so it is you who determines objectivity, then? I see. I'm sure everyone in this thread will agree that you are in no way biased towards one faction or the other.

Again, *I* point out that we all "cherry-pick fluff" simply because there exists no uniform canon. Do you really want me to quote the people who actually work on this franchise again? It is not you who decides for everyone else how the setting looks like. Deal with it.
Even -if- it would work as you say - which it does not - I find the claim that you are aware of any and all details in any and all sources of fluff ever published rather hard to believe. You like Space Marines (or so I assume), so you read Marine novels. And Marines are written epic in there. Who woulda thought. I'm going out on a limb here and assume that you have not, however, read stories like Daemonblood, Daemonifuge, Faith & Fire, Hammer & Anvil, Red & Black? Just a thought, y'know. It's hardly a surprise that your image of Space Marines is somewhat focused on their epic legends when that is 90% of all you've read.

BlaxicanX wrote:The difference between you and I is that I draw my conclusions from all fluff. If there's 12 instances of a Space Marine lifting 500 pounds, and there's one instance of a Space Marine only being able to lift 100 pounds, I'm not going to assume that the latter instance is more valid just because it's studio fluff or BL fluff. Fluff is fluff, and that lends objectivity to my argument, something yours is lacking.

If "all fluff" was intended to coexist and tie into each other, you would have a point.
With how the franchise is actually handled, however, you do not. You continue to claim that there is such a thing as "all fluff", but you need to realise that whatever you pull out of it is your opinion only. Unlike me, you do not even have various authors' and game designers' quotes on the subject, do you?

BlaxicanX wrote:I claimed that the only fluff that implies that SIsters of Battle can stand toe to toe with Marines is the notion that they are used to cull chapters, and I claimed that that notion is irrelevent because the details surrounding how they cull chapters is left ambiguous. I never challenged the notion that they cull renegade chapters.

You know what, I just checked and you're right - for some reason I skipped the middle part of your sentence there. My bad.

BlaxicanX wrote:Don't need too. I have no doubt Sisters are more pious and religious than Marines. Doesn't change the fact that they're far inferior soldiers. Considering the topic of this discussion is "Can Sisters do what the Marines do as efficiently?", their purity and faith means nothing.

Well, apparently GW does not agree with you, be it with fluff sentences like these or the Sisters' Acts of Faith in the tabletop or the Inquisitor RPG. The sentence says "fierce warriors that are equals" to Space Marines, and it presents their faith and devotion as a balance factor set against genetic enhancement. Obviously, this is referring to their willpower and dedication, which can at times have them perform beyond what the average human should be capable of, such as ignoring pain or summoning astounding reserves of strength. We have examples for this in the real world, the Sisters of Battle are just an entire army making use of this "mind over matter" idea. And it seems as if it is this that elevates them just high enough.
Of course you can simply ignore that line about the "being equals".* As I said, we are all cherry-picking, and this is only a single line from GW which is surely conflicted by lots of Black Library novels from some freelance authors.

It seems there is really no point in discussing it further - you have your interpretation of the 41st millennium, born chiefly from various novels, and I have mine from GW's own books. I do believe you when you say that the Sisters of Battle suck much more in the books you read, but that is just one more explanation for why I don't give much on outsourced fiction. Aside from a lack of continuity between the various products, they seem heavily biased to whoever the protagonist is, even more than what I am used from the codices. Gaunt's Ghost appear to eat CSMs for breakfast, and that's an IG unit!

(*: Pssst, I actually find it somewhat far-fetched myself but it seems obvious that I think them capable of a lot more than you give them credit for. Guess I just like images like the trio of heroes from the Vinculus Crusade too much)

Void__Dragon wrote:Where is the Sisters = Marines statement actually from?

GW's old Witch Hunters website - y'know, the unified Ordo Hereticus + SoB description page, before they switched to SoB only.
Here is a backup from the internet archive.

Void__Dragon wrote:The only real issue is that there aren't enough Marines, but that issue could be easily solved fluffwise by making more, so is more of a break from reality in the setting. 40k has many.

Though in all fairness, 40k at least touches upon the possibility every now and again - suggesting that it's really just politics keeping Astartes numbers low. Perhaps the High Lords are just convinced the Guard is sufficient. They are so far beyond the ordinary citizen, I could certainly see them having little of the common man's respect for the Astartes.

For those who don't want to click on the link, and to move this conversation forward, this is the line Lynata is referring to "As the Chamber Militant of the galaxy-spanning Ecclesiarchy, the Sisters of Battle are fierce warriors that are equals to their brother Space Marines."

Blax is a guardsman fan, lol.

And a sweeping statement has less relevance than actual showings in the fluff, IMHO.

Void__Dragon wrote:And a sweeping statement has less relevance than actual showings in the fluff, IMHO.

Descriptions dedicated to general application have less relevance than individual events and legends surrounding potentially exceptional individuals?

Okay, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

and just tossing this one out there...when was the last time a order of Sisters of battle converted to chaos..or betrayed the IoM....

and when was the last time a Astartes chapter did..hmmmm

nothing is as loyal as daddys little girls

Can you cite an example in the actual fluff of a Sister of Battle (Or a team/group/whatever) taking out Marines that didn't rely on either exceptional individuals far beyond the common Sister, nor specific circumstances? I'd buy it if I could actually see evidence of it.

I mean, by that token, the Tyranids are perfect weapons who are completely unstoppable, as are the Necrons. Both have had sweeping statements to the effect of "Every race has to band together to have a chance against them". It is impossible for that statement to be true of both. As an example.

Not from GW's material, no. The number of short stories or even event descriptions describing individual Sisters fighting individual Marines is ... wow, I think it's actually zero. I do recall battles, but there it was always described in army-size and not about individuals.

If you want something from the Black Library (whatever good that does), I did mention Sister Aescarion from Daemonblood. Though in fairness, the Ultramarines-Sergeant-turned-Daemon-Prince does take out the remains of her small Seraphim squad, he just cannot beat her.
I'm sure there are many, many more BL stories where Sisters lose horribly to Marines, Guardsmen and little children with rocks, though. Their most popular role in the licensed fiction is that of an antagonist to beat up - a little like those poor victimised CSMs in the Gaunt's Ghosts stories.

As for 'nids and Necrons, I don't recall such statements to be made for both in the same way - though that does not necessarily have to mean much; my 40k fluff knowledge is fairly limited in that it is focused on the IoM as represented by GW's books.